Depriving Mother of Qi

[Guest guest]

HI Victoria,

This principle of 'depriving mother of Qi', could you explain it?

Do you see this principle centering around Yin meridians?

From what I've read, it's most common in heart/spleen relationships, and

kidney/lung relationships.

 

Thanks

Ed

[Guest guest]

>This principle of 'depriving mother of Qi', could you explain it?

 

For readers new to TCM, this is a part of the 5 Element Theory. Wood is the

mother of Fire, and Fire is the son of Wood. There is a generating sequence

of Wood-Fire-Earth-Metal-Water-Wood. In cases of son depriving the mother of

Qi, think of the analogy of a greedy, demanding brat who is sucking the

energy and life out of its mother. If the mother gets any Qi, the son grabs

it. The son grows " fat " while the mother shrinks away.

 

>Do you see this principle centering around Yin meridians?

 

I'm unfamiliar with this.

 

>From what I've read, it's most common in heart/spleen relationships, and

>kidney/lung relationships.

 

Maciocia doesn't mention son depriving mother of Qi in his short section on

the Five Elements. He does go into mother not generating son. Mother not

generating son and son depriving mother of Qi are not the same thing. I

have seen reference to son depriving mother in other books, but I don't have

any on hand here. If I'm remembering correctly, I believe you either sedate

the brat or you tonify the " victor " in the victor-vanquished relationship

(depending on the circumstances). For readers new to TCM, the

victor-vanquished relationship is another part of the 5 Element Theory. It

is an indirect relationship in which whatever you do to the " grandmother "

has the opposite effect on the son. For example, Wood is the mother of

Fire, but Water is the grandmother of Fire. (The

Wood-Fire-Earth-Metal-Water-Wood sequence.) Water is the grandmother of

Fire, so Water controls Fire. Likewise, Wood controls Earth, Fire controls

Metal, Earth controls Water, and Metal controls Wood. Say for example that

Fire is the brat who is sucking its mother, Wood, of energy. Enter the

grandmother, Water, who is a tough old bird. Tonify Water, and it will

suppress Fire. Like when you pour water on a fire and it puts it out.

 

Keep in mind that when you tonify a grandmother in order to sedate a

grandson which is robbing its mother of Qi, you're doing two important

things at the same time. The grandmother is controlling the grandson

because of that victor-vanquished relationship. But because the grandmother

is the mother of the grandson's mother, you're also tonifying the mother

with some much needed Qi. (When you tonify the mother you automatically

tonify the offspring.)

 

Even though Maciocia doesn't mention the son robbing the mother of Qi, you

will run across cases where this is happening and the most effective

treatment principle will be to tonify the grandmother because that will

bring the kid under control plus add some much needed Qi to the mother which

has been depleted.

 

This is some very fine-tuning of treatment strategies. You'll rarely run

across cases where the son is robbing the mother of Qi and that can't be

explained and treated adequately according to Organ Theory. But, in the few

rare cases that can best be characterized as son robbing the mother of Qi,

knowing that you can tonify the grandmother can get positive results when

nothing else will.

 

Maciocia does point out that " the relationship between Kidney-Yang and the

Spleen is clinically more relevant than that between the Fire of the Heart

and the Spleen. " (p. 304) It's that thing about the Kidneys and the Life

Gate being the source of all Yang (and Yin) in the body.

 

There also is a very special relationship between the Kidney and the Heart -

Kidney and Heart Not Harmonized. The Fire of the Heart needs to descend to

warm the Kidneys at the same time the Water of the Kidneys needs to ascend

to cool the Heart. This is a combination of Kidney and Heart Yin Deficiency.

There's not enough " Water " (Yin) in the Kidneys to give Yin to the Heart,

and Heart Fire flares. In addition to the usual symptoms of Kidney Yin

Deficiency and Yin Deficiency in general, you get the symptoms associated

with the Heart - mental restlessness, waking up a lot during the night,

palpatations, and a red tip of the tongue.

 

Victoria

 

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[Guest guest]

Victoria,

Thank you for your answer.

Ed

 

Judy Fitzgerald wrote:

 

> >This principle of 'depriving mother of Qi', could you explain it?

>

> For readers new to TCM, this is a part of the 5 Element Theory. Wood is the

> mother of Fire, and Fire is the son of Wood. There is a generating sequence

> of Wood-Fire-Earth-Metal-Water-Wood. In cases of son depriving the mother of

> Qi, think of the analogy of a greedy, demanding brat who is sucking the

> energy and life out of its mother. If the mother gets any Qi, the son grabs

> it. The son grows " fat " while the mother shrinks away.

>

> >Do you see this principle centering around Yin meridians?

>

> I'm unfamiliar with this.

>

> >From what I've read, it's most common in heart/spleen relationships, and

> >kidney/lung relationships.

>

> Maciocia doesn't mention son depriving mother of Qi in his short section on

> the Five Elements. He does go into mother not generating son. Mother not

> generating son and son depriving mother of Qi are not the same thing. I

> have seen reference to son depriving mother in other books, but I don't have

> any on hand here. If I'm remembering correctly, I believe you either sedate

> the brat or you tonify the " victor " in the victor-vanquished relationship

> (depending on the circumstances). For readers new to TCM, the

> victor-vanquished relationship is another part of the 5 Element Theory. It

> is an indirect relationship in which whatever you do to the " grandmother "

> has the opposite effect on the son. For example, Wood is the mother of

> Fire, but Water is the grandmother of Fire. (The

> Wood-Fire-Earth-Metal-Water-Wood sequence.) Water is the grandmother of

> Fire, so Water controls Fire. Likewise, Wood controls Earth, Fire controls

> Metal, Earth controls Water, and Metal controls Wood. Say for example that

> Fire is the brat who is sucking its mother, Wood, of energy. Enter the

> grandmother, Water, who is a tough old bird. Tonify Water, and it will

> suppress Fire. Like when you pour water on a fire and it puts it out.

>

> Keep in mind that when you tonify a grandmother in order to sedate a

> grandson which is robbing its mother of Qi, you're doing two important

> things at the same time. The grandmother is controlling the grandson

> because of that victor-vanquished relationship. But because the grandmother

> is the mother of the grandson's mother, you're also tonifying the mother

> with some much needed Qi. (When you tonify the mother you automatically

> tonify the offspring.)

>

> Even though Maciocia doesn't mention the son robbing the mother of Qi, you

> will run across cases where this is happening and the most effective

> treatment principle will be to tonify the grandmother because that will

> bring the kid under control plus add some much needed Qi to the mother which

> has been depleted.

>

> This is some very fine-tuning of treatment strategies. You'll rarely run

> across cases where the son is robbing the mother of Qi and that can't be

> explained and treated adequately according to Organ Theory. But, in the few

> rare cases that can best be characterized as son robbing the mother of Qi,

> knowing that you can tonify the grandmother can get positive results when

> nothing else will.

>

> Maciocia does point out that " the relationship between Kidney-Yang and the

> Spleen is clinically more relevant than that between the Fire of the Heart

> and the Spleen. " (p. 304) It's that thing about the Kidneys and the Life

> Gate being the source of all Yang (and Yin) in the body.

>

> There also is a very special relationship between the Kidney and the Heart -

> Kidney and Heart Not Harmonized. The Fire of the Heart needs to descend to

> warm the Kidneys at the same time the Water of the Kidneys needs to ascend

> to cool the Heart. This is a combination of Kidney and Heart Yin Deficiency.

> There's not enough " Water " (Yin) in the Kidneys to give Yin to the Heart,

> and Heart Fire flares. In addition to the usual symptoms of Kidney Yin

> Deficiency and Yin Deficiency in general, you get the symptoms associated

> with the Heart - mental restlessness, waking up a lot during the night,

> palpatations, and a red tip of the tongue.

>

> Victoria

>

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