Guest guest Posted January 22, 2002 Report Share Posted January 22, 2002 From what I get, the common income of first year practitioners is 10k. Every additional year they add 10k to that. After 5 years, assume 50k. and so forth. -al. Brian Paige wrote: > > I am starting the application process to some schools of Oriental > Medicine. I like the field, but I have found no information on how > long it takes to establish a practice. While I recognize the rate will > vary depending on location and economy of the locale, I would like to > know how long it has taken the various practitioners in this group to > gain a large enough listing of patients to pay the bills. That is, how > long did it take to reach the break-even point from the time your doors > first opened? > > Just wondering, > Brian > > > > Send FREE video emails in Mail! > http://promo./videomail/ > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2002 Report Share Posted January 22, 2002 I found this somewhere on the web. I am the Director of Admissions at the Texas College of Traditional Chinese Medicine. We frequently have students who are interested in what their financial future holds as a practitioner of TCM. Our research shows that a first year practitioner can expect to earn between $30 and $45k. Depending on individual business acumen, the second year earnings are between $50-$60 k with third year and beyond bringing in $80k+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2002 Report Share Posted January 23, 2002 I have also had this question (1.5 yrs to go at FITCM). I am assuming these numbers are gross income for folks who open their own practice? BTW is your school the one that had the great fortune to aquire Dr. S. Li from our school in fl? He was a truely gifted teacher. We were all very sad to see him leave. If so tell him Bob from class 27 says hi! Bob --- KarateStan wrote: > I found this somewhere on the web. > > I am the Director of Admissions at the Texas College > of Traditional Chinese > Medicine. We frequently have students who are > interested in what their > financial future holds as a practitioner of TCM. Our > research shows that > a first year practitioner can expect to earn between > $30 and $45k. Depending > on individual business acumen, the second year > earnings are between $50-$60 k > with third year and beyond bringing in $80k+. > Send FREE video emails in Mail! http://promo./videomail/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2002 Report Share Posted January 23, 2002 Hi Bob - --- Bob Linde <bob_and_robin wrote: > I have also had this question (1.5 yrs to go at > FITCM). I am assuming these numbers are gross income > for folks who open their own practice? > BTW is your school the one that had the great > fortune > to aquire Dr. S. Li from our school in fl? He was a > truely gifted teacher. We were all very sad to see > him > leave. If so tell him Bob from class 27 says hi! > Bob > Indeed Dr Li is at TCTCM. I am thrilled to be taking Diagnosis and Differention 2 from him at present. He is a wonderful teacher and I will pass your message along. Rebecca Send FREE video emails in Mail! http://promo./videomail/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2002 Report Share Posted January 23, 2002 KarateStan wrote: > > I found this somewhere on the web. > > I am the Director of Admissions at the Texas College of Traditional > Chinese > Medicine. We frequently have students who are interested in what their > financial future holds as a practitioner of TCM. Our research shows > that > a first year practitioner can expect to earn between $30 and $45k. > Depending on individual business acumen, the second year earnings are > between $50-$60 k with third year and beyond bringing in $80k+. Can you tell us a little bit about your research? -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2002 Report Share Posted January 23, 2002 In a message dated 1/23/02 10:16:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, rebeccarmt writes: I am thrilled to be taking Diagnosis and Differention 2 from him at present. He is a wonderful teacher and I will pass your message along. Rebecca Rebecca, Please say hi for me to Steve Li, we named him Steve. He is a very good teacher. Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 Al, It looks like you didn't get a reply on this one. It looks like Stan merely stumbled onto the info...wasn't a research job...not sure, tho. Here's the website for TX College of Traditional ...maybe that'll help. www.texasTCM.edu Kit At 01:45 PM 1/23/02 -0800, you wrote: KarateStan wrote: > > I found this somewhere on the web. > > I am the Director of Admissions at the Texas College of Traditional > Chinese > Medicine. We frequently have students who are interested in what their > financial future holds as a practitioner of TCM. Our research shows > that > a first year practitioner can expect to earn between $30 and $45k. > Depending on individual business acumen, the second year earnings are > between $50-$60 k with third year and beyond bringing in $80k+. Can you tell us a little bit about your research? -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Sponsor Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2002 Report Share Posted January 27, 2002 Hello all, (groan) I believe I have been misinterpreted. I don't really care what people earn or when. As I said, I expect this to vary depending on a variety of factors. What I would like to know is how long it has taken the various practitioners here to break even. From the time you opened your doors, how long did you work before you no longer required assistance (loans, relatives, putting things on credit cards, etc.) to pay your monthly bills? If it happened in your first month, great. If it took you five years, fine. Again, I think answers will vary depending on a variety of factors, but what I'm after is a general trend. If you'd prefer to email me directly, that's ok: hypercycle While I appreciate that there are some stats on what graduates earn, this doesn't exactly provide the answer I need. While I understand any plans I could develop to prepare for the post-graduate world are tentative at best, it would be of great assistance to have some idea of what others have experienced. My ranting aside, I really enjoy reading the discussions on this group. I can't say I understand all of it, but that only challenges me to study what few materials I have. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I enjoy studying at the " University of Victoria. " Brian --- Bob Linde <bob_and_robin wrote: > I have also had this question (1.5 yrs to go at > FITCM). I am assuming these numbers are gross income > for folks who open their own practice? > BTW is your school the one that had the great fortune > to aquire Dr. S. Li from our school in fl? He was a > truely gifted teacher. We were all very sad to see him > leave. If so tell him Bob from class 27 says hi! > Bob > > > --- KarateStan wrote: > > I found this somewhere on the web. > > > > I am the Director of Admissions at the Texas College > > of Traditional Chinese > > Medicine. We frequently have students who are > > interested in what their > > financial future holds as a practitioner of TCM. Our > > research shows that > > a first year practitioner can expect to earn between > > $30 and $45k. Depending > > on individual business acumen, the second year > > earnings are between $50-$60 k > > with third year and beyond bringing in $80k+. > > > > > > > Send FREE video emails in Mail! > http://promo./videomail/ > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2002 Report Share Posted January 27, 2002 I too am interested in the answer to this question particularly answers from Melbourne Australian practitioners .au - My - It's My Get your own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2002 Report Share Posted January 27, 2002 Brian - I think you ask a tough question. The answer is personal - unique to each individual. Plus it is a tough transition after school for many - student to business owner (most schools are not teaching those skills in addition to the medicine). An interesting stat is the percentage of graduates who go on to practice and the number that don't (BTW: the latter being the higher number). It is a period of time that is worthy of discussion. My expectation is 5 years to establish my practice, to be at least breaking-even (I am in my second year of practice in a large city with many other acupuncturists). Colleagues in small towns have become established and breaking-even within 2 years. Location is one factor. Other factors change every month as hospitals and clinics open their doors to . And insurance coverage adds or drops acupuncture. A complex question. Best Wishes! Deborah - Brian Paige <hypercycle <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Saturday, January 26, 2002 4:40 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Practice startup > Hello all, > (groan) > I believe I have been misinterpreted. I don't really care what people > earn or when. As I said, I expect this to vary depending on a variety > of factors. What I would like to know is how long it has taken the > various practitioners here to break even. From the time you opened > your doors, how long did you work before you no longer required > assistance (loans, relatives, putting things on credit cards, etc.) to > pay your monthly bills? If it happened in your first month, great. If > it took you five years, fine. Again, I think answers will vary > depending on a variety of factors, but what I'm after is a general > trend. If you'd prefer to email me directly, that's ok: > hypercycle > > While I appreciate that there are some stats on what graduates earn, > this doesn't exactly provide the answer I need. While I understand any > plans I could develop to prepare for the post-graduate world are > tentative at best, it would be of great assistance to have some idea of > what others have experienced. > > My ranting aside, I really enjoy reading the discussions on this group. > I can't say I understand all of it, but that only challenges me to > study what few materials I have. Please don't take this the wrong way, > but I enjoy studying at the " University of Victoria. " > > Brian > > --- Bob Linde <bob_and_robin wrote: > > I have also had this question (1.5 yrs to go at > > FITCM). I am assuming these numbers are gross income > > for folks who open their own practice? > > BTW is your school the one that had the great fortune > > to aquire Dr. S. Li from our school in fl? He was a > > truely gifted teacher. We were all very sad to see him > > leave. If so tell him Bob from class 27 says hi! > > Bob > > > > > > --- KarateStan wrote: > > > I found this somewhere on the web. > > > > > > I am the Director of Admissions at the Texas College > > > of Traditional Chinese > > > Medicine. We frequently have students who are > > > interested in what their > > > financial future holds as a practitioner of TCM. Our > > > research shows that > > > a first year practitioner can expect to earn between > > > $30 and $45k. Depending > > > on individual business acumen, the second year > > > earnings are between $50-$60 k > > > with third year and beyond bringing in $80k+. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send FREE video emails in Mail! > > http://promo./videomail/ > > > > > > > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! > http://auctions. > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2002 Report Share Posted January 30, 2002 A friend of mine just opened his clinic in December and has at least broke even these past two months and is open only 3 days a week. He has 4 treatments rooms and at this time is planing on adding another physician later this year. To me this sounds like a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 Hello, Thanks for the response! Actually, from what I've gathered, your friend is doing exceptionally well. Especially for only being open 3 days a week. I had intuitively expected the average to be about 5 years, but quite a few practitioners, in varying areas of the country, are breaking even much earlier. Often within the first year and a half. Admittedly, this is simply covering costs of doing business, not a living wage, but that comes later. As with most things in life, you have to pay your dues first, then you get to express yourself more freely. I know the question is a complex one, but that's why I needed to ask it. I needed to know, in a very general way, what people experienced in the field. There aren't a lot of practitioners here, so I'm limited on readily available information. Thanks again on the response! I wish you joy, love, health, and insight enough to overcome your obstacles. I'd wish the same for your friend, but this person seems to be doing quite well without wishes. Brian --- KarateStan wrote: > A friend of mine just opened his clinic in December and has at least > broke > even these past two months and is open only 3 days a week. > He has 4 treatments rooms and at this time is planing on adding > another > physician later this year. > To me this sounds like a good start. > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 I have been reading this thread for a while but just found time to comment. My background before becoming an acupuncturist was being a management consultant and CPA (sort of a weird transition, but then again, isn't most of ours.) So first, as pointed out on one message, a lot of graduates don't practice. This isn't just with acupuncturists but is true in many other fields. I have a close friend who is a chiropracter. 1/2 of her class never practiced. So I think you need to throw them out of the mix. Next, is what type of practice model do you want to establish. I have choosen to practice by myself, working on a pay per visit (no insurance reimbursement), out of a duplex where I live out of the other side. My overhead is almost next to nothing. Because of the type of work I do (tui na, energy work, etc.) I see one patient at a time. So when did I break even? The first month. But then there is the larger practice where multiple rooms per acupuncturist (some people run 3 to 4 rooms at a time). Here you obviously need support staff, more space, higher patient volume, etc. More overhead, longer time to break even, but higher potential income. And you will never really know what people make in their practice. Most of the very successful ones won't share that information. People who are making just a little will often share but then the overall numbers are skewed. And in addition, many people work part time in this field. So my answer is like any service business. Keep your overhead down as low as you can initially. Deliver quality service and you will make money. This service field relies on referrals. Develop your network and be patient. The money will come. Joe Forman Chinese Traditional Medicine, Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > From what I get, the common income of first year practitioners is 10k. > Every additional year they add 10k to that. After 5 years, assume 50k. > and so forth. > > -al. > > Brian Paige wrote: > > > > I am starting the application process to some schools of Oriental > > Medicine. I like the field, but I have found no information on how > > long it takes to establish a practice. While I recognize the rate will > > vary depending on location and economy of the locale, I would like to > > know how long it has taken the various practitioners in this group to > > gain a large enough listing of patients to pay the bills. That is, how > > long did it take to reach the break-even point from the time your doors > > first opened? > > > > Just wondering, > > Brian > > > > > > > > Send FREE video emails in Mail! > > http://promo./videomail/ > > > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine@o... > > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-@o... > > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-@o... > > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner@o... > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 Nice to hear different thoughts and ideas. I am absolutely thrilled and inspired by the different responses. I think our field will prosper when we take our medicine and practice it where-ever we are. I agree and perhaps a downfall - or apparant downfall - is that setting up " a practice " is assumed to be a clinic setting with multiple rooms and reception room. Where as, this medicine provides valuable insight and is applicable on a broad scale. One classmate of mine has gone into research, several others into herbal supplies and sales (they are not treating patients in a clinic setting but prospering) -- I don't know how they fit into the stats of who practices after graduation -- but I forget to remember there are many ways to " practice " the medicine. An added note: those I know who are practicing and doing well in the small towns -- they have turned their homes into a clinc (living upstairs) -- low overhead. Hmmmm, of course. And while they are doing very well, they are modest in saying that they will break-even and then be ahead in five years. Best wishes to all - practitioners, patients, students, teachers .... Odd thing about this medicine and what attrached me to it is that we are all a little bit of each of these. I try to teach my patients, they are in charge of practicing their health care, and I have my health to address as a patient and will always be a student. peace and wellness, Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 josephrforman wrote: > So my answer is like any service business. Keep your overhead down > as low as you can initially. Deliver quality service and you will > make money. This service field relies on referrals. Develop your > network and be patient. The money will come. I agree, and for this reason, I encourage beginning practitioners to go into an existing office and just pay them a percentage whenever they have a patient. This percentage can be as high as 50% and although this may seem rather exploitive, it isn't at all. I'm paying more than that I think for all of my business related expenses and I've been in practice for four years now. The key point here is that when you really start bringing in patients, you'll be able to afford your own office space, but until then, you're safe in that your monthly bills will be low, till you actually have patients and can afford the rent, etc... -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 In a message dated 2/4/2002 2:36:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, alstone writes: I agree, and for this reason, I encourage beginning practitioners to go into an existing office and just pay them a percentage whenever they have a patient. This percentage can be as high as 50% and although this may seem rather exploitive, it isn't at all. I'm paying more than that I think for all of my business related expenses and I've been in practice for four years now. The key point here is that when you really start bringing in patients, you'll be able to afford your own office space, but until then, you're safe in that your monthly bills will be low, till you actually have patients and can afford the rent, etc... -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Al, isn't paying a percentage based on numbers of patients seen a sort of fee-splitting? Hillary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Hilary wrote: >>>Al, isn't paying a percentage based on numbers of patients seen a sort of fee-splitting?<<< And this is against the law? I think that's what you're getting at. I haven't a clue, but everybody does it. I don't know that we call it fee splitting actually. We tend to call it " rent " . So, I don't know. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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