5 elements Theory - Practical interpretation

[Guest guest]

I am a beginner in this.

I understand the generation and the control cycle and have memorized

the table, and read a few articles available on the Net, but I still

need a simple and practical understanding of some of the information,

how do I use what I find in the table ? Is is a diagnosis tool, a

healing tool... ? For example :

Emotions :

What is the meaning for example of Joy being the emotion related to

Fire and the Heart, or Small Intestine ? Does it mean that somebody

really joyous has heart problems, or that he has a very good heart ?

Taste :

Salty being the taste related to Water element - Kidneys. Does that

mean that if someone has weak kidney, he needs to eat more or less

salt ?

Smell : what do you smell ? How ? Why ?

Direction : Earth's direction is the center. Practically what does

that mean ???

 

I would be very thankful if you have suggestions about where to get

this information.

Thank you

Frederic

[Guest guest]

>I understand the generation and the control cycle and have memorized

>the table, and read a few articles available on the Net, but I still

>need a simple and practical understanding of some of the information,

>how do I use what I find in the table ? Is is a diagnosis tool, a

>healing tool... ? For example :

 

It's both a method of or approach to analysis (like 8 Principal Patterns,

etc.) and a tool for figuring out treatments. When I was first beginning to

use acupressure on myself I discovered that it was possible to figure out

acupoints that helped myself by using 5 Element Theory.

 

According to Giovanni Maciocia in The Foundations of , p.

303, " These patterns are not of primary importance in practice as most of

them describe clinical conditions which are better expressed by the

Internal-Organ patterns. In cerrtain cases, however, some 5-Element

patterns can describe conditions which fall outside the scope of the

Internal-Organ patterns. An example of this is the pattern of Deficient Qi

of Wood (manifesting with timidity and indecision) which is not included

among the Internal Organ patterns. "

 

I would add another use of 5-Element Theory: It can give the healer

insights into the best treatments for an individual. Especially in cases of

" knotty " (complex) problems where part of the treatment which addresses one

problem the person has could aggravate another problem. Knowledge of

5-Element Theory can help the healer to come up with a treatment which will

not aggravate other problems. For example, Earth (Spleen) is weak but Metal

(Lungs) is in Excess. If one tonifies the " mother " , Earth, one also

tonifies the " son " , Metal. (For those new to TCM, this is the Generating

cycle). Earth, which is weak, needs that extra energy, but Metal is already

in Excess. So how does one tonify Earth when Metal needs to be subdued?

One tonifies the mother of Earth, Fire. Since tonifying (or subduing) the

" mother " automatically tonifies (or subdues) the " son " , this takes care of

tonifying Earth without increasing the Excess problems in Metal. If one had

tried to tonify Earth directly, it also would have added to the problems in

Metal. So one tonifies the " mother " of Earth, Fire. This also has the

added advantage of Fire controling Metal (the Control cycle). Both the

problem of Deficiency in Earth (Spleen) and Excess in Metal (Lungs) are

treated at the same time without treatment for one aggravating the treatment

for the other.

 

5-Element Theory frequently has more significance in helping the healer to

choose acupoints than herbs. But there are cases where a knowledge of

5-Element Theory can aid the herbalist in selecting the best herbs for an

individual.

 

5-Element Theory also gets used in Feng Shui. Feng Shui " is the Chinese art

of placement, of balancing and enhancing the environment. " (Interior Design

With Feng Shui, by Sarah Rossbach, p.xxiii.) (For those into Feng Shui, yes,

I know that not all schools of Feng Shui use 5-Elements, but I needed a

quote as to what Feng Shui is, and this is the only book I have on hand.)

 

I recommend that healers learn 5-Elements Theory in order to give that

little extra insight into fine-tuning treatments.

 

For those new to TCM, 5-Element Theory, the 8 Principal Patterns, the

Internal-Organ patterns, etc. are approaches for analyzing and making sense

of health imbalances and then determining treatment. The 8 Principal

Patterns is the most basic approach. When using 8 Principal Patterns, the

healer considers if the problem is Exterior or Interior, Excess or

Deficiency, Hot or Cold, and Yang or Yin - 8 patterns.

 

Internal-Organ analysis looks at the individual in more detail and at the

different Organs. For example, the individual may be Kidney Yang Deficient

but have Heat in the Lungs.

 

Since my computer sometimes cuts off, I'll answer your specific questions in

another post.

 

Victoria

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Frederic,

5 Element theory is about the wheel of life and nature and can be used in

many different ways eg as a diagnostic tool as in 5 Element acupuncture. I

don't know exactly what information you need and for what purpose, but a

good introduction is " the Law of the Five Elements " by Dianne Connelly.

Another good book is " Healing your emotions: Discover your Element type and

Change your life " by Angela and John Hicks.

Susie

[Guest guest]

>Taste :

>Salty being the taste related to Water element - Kidneys. Does that

>mean that if someone has weak kidney, he needs to eat more or less

>salt ?

 

Each of the 5 Elements has a taste associated with it. These are sour -

Wood, bitter - Fire, sweet - Earth, pungent (spicy) - Metal, and salthy -

Water (Kidneys and Bladder).

 

" A sour taste often accompanies Liver disharmonies, a bitter taste is part

of the pattern of Heart-Fire, a sweet taste is often indicative of Spleen

deficiency, a pungent taste sometimes accompanies Lung disharmonies and a

salty taste occasionally is associated with Kidney deficiency.

 

" The taste correspondences also suffer from certain limitations, in the same

way as for the colours. For example, a sour taste is more frequently

present in Stomach disharmonies, a bitter taste is also more frequently

indicative of Liver disharmonies such as Liver-Fire and a sweet taste can

also indicate retention of Dampness.

 

" Besides this, there are also other types of tastes often described by

patients that do not fit into this scheme. For example, a 'flat' taste

indicates Spleen deficiency and a 'sticky' taste indicates retention of

Dampness. " (Giovanni Maciocia, The Foundations of , p.30.)

 

Maciocia goes on to say, " A bitter taste indicates a Full-Heat pattern,

either of Liver or Heart. If it is due to Liver-Fire, the bitter taste is

more or less constant. If it is due to Heart-Fire, it is associated with

insomnia, and is only present in the morning after a sleepless night, and

not after a good night's sleep. " (p. 157.)

 

Kidney Yin Deficiency often causes a person to have a salty taste in the

mouth. A poor sense of taste or a lack of a sense of taste can be

associated with Spleen Deficiency. (p. 157) From a Western standpoint, a

zinc deficiency also can result in a diminished or absent sense of taste.

 

In addition, the 5 tastes also have an affinity for certain Organs. This is

not 100%, but it does occur. Foods and herbs with a salty taste tend to

have an affinity for the Kidneys. Some herbs act as " guide " herbs. What

they do is to guide the effects of the herbs (and food) to certain Organs.

Some of the formulas for Kidney imbalance call for the formula to be taken

with a pinch of salt. The salt insures that the formula is directed to the

Kidneys.

 

Too little or too much of a particular taste can trigger imbalance in a

particular Element and its Organs. There also are contraindications. For

example, the salty taste can dry the Blood and aggravate Blood Deficiency.

(Maciocia, p. 33. For a list of contraindications see The Foundations of

, p. 33, " The Five Elements in Herbal and Diet Therapy " .)

 

When considering the sweet taste being associated with the Spleen (and

Earth), remember that many of the functions associated with the pancreas in

Western medicine are associated with the Spleen in TCM. Some Western TCM

writers refer to the Spleen as the Spleen-Pancreas.

 

The Chinese idea of a balanced diet is one that includes all 5 tastes. The

proportion of the tastes will vary according to the individual's needs.

 

>Smell : what do you smell ? How ? Why ?

 

Rancid - Wood (often Heat stagnating in Liver), burned smell - Fire (often

Heart Fire), a sweet smell - Earth (often associated with Spleen Deficiency

and Dampness), rank - Metal (often chronic Phlegm in Lungs), and rotten -

Water (often Damp Heat in Bladder or Kidney imbalance). (Maciocia,

Foundations, p. 30).

 

Maciocia points out that the smell correspondences also are not 100%. A

rotten smell coming from the person can indicate Heat in any Organ, not just

the Bladder. He also attributes a leatherly smell as pointing to possible

Damp Heat and a fishy smell as pointing to the possibility of Damp Cold. (p.

30.)

 

>Direction : Earth's direction is the center. Practically what does

>that mean ???

 

Earth being associated with the center has application in Feng Shui.

However, the other directions can be diagnostic. This is not restricted to

Chinese medicine or Feng Shui. Some Native American healing will have the

person sit in the 4 directions and meditate. Imbalances may be revealed by

the person feeling less comfortable with his or her back to a certain

direction. For example, even before I tried this, I had noticed that I feel

uncomfortable sitting with my back to the north. The associations with

different directions will differ among different cultures and individuals.

So this is not something that can be used easily in healing. There are no

set guidelines to this aspect of healing.

 

Victoria

 

 

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[Guest guest]

This is very useful

Thank you

Frederic

Judy Fitzgerald wrote:

>Taste :

>Salty being the taste related to Water element - Kidneys. Does

that

>mean that if someone has weak kidney, he needs to eat more or

less

>salt ?

Each of the 5 Elements has a taste associated with it. These

are sour -

Wood, bitter - Fire, sweet - Earth, pungent (spicy) - Metal, and

salthy -

Water (Kidneys and Bladder).

"A sour taste often accompanies Liver disharmonies, a bitter taste

is part

of the pattern of Heart-Fire, a sweet taste is often indicative

of Spleen

deficiency, a pungent taste sometimes accompanies Lung disharmonies

and a

salty taste occasionally is associated with Kidney deficiency.

"The taste correspondences also suffer from certain limitations,

in the same

way as for the colours. For example, a sour taste is more

frequently

present in Stomach disharmonies, a bitter taste is also more frequently

indicative of Liver disharmonies such as Liver-Fire and a sweet

taste can

also indicate retention of Dampness.

"Besides this, there are also other types of tastes often described

by

patients that do not fit into this scheme. For example, a

'flat' taste

indicates Spleen deficiency and a 'sticky' taste indicates retention

of

Dampness." (Giovanni Maciocia, The Foundations of Chinese

Medicine, p.30.)

Maciocia goes on to say, "A bitter taste indicates a Full-Heat pattern,

either of Liver or Heart. If it is due to Liver-Fire, the

bitter taste is

more or less constant. If it is due to Heart-Fire, it is

associated with

insomnia, and is only present in the morning after a sleepless

night, and

not after a good night's sleep." (p. 157.)

Kidney Yin Deficiency often causes a person to have a salty taste

in the

mouth. A poor sense of taste or a lack of a sense of taste

can be

associated with Spleen Deficiency. (p. 157) From a Western

standpoint, a

zinc deficiency also can result in a diminished or absent sense

of taste.

In addition, the 5 tastes also have an affinity for certain Organs.

This is

not 100%, but it does occur. Foods and herbs with a salty

taste tend to

have an affinity for the Kidneys. Some herbs act as "guide"

herbs. What

they do is to guide the effects of the herbs (and food) to certain

Organs.

Some of the formulas for Kidney imbalance call for the formula

to be taken

with a pinch of salt. The salt insures that the formula is

directed to the

Kidneys.

Too little or too much of a particular taste can trigger imbalance

in a

particular Element and its Organs. There also are contraindications.

For

example, the salty taste can dry the Blood and aggravate Blood

Deficiency.

(Maciocia, p. 33. For a list of contraindications see The

Foundations of

, p. 33, "The Five Elements in Herbal and Diet

Therapy".)

When considering the sweet taste being associated with the Spleen

(and

Earth), remember that many of the functions associated with the

pancreas in

Western medicine are associated with the Spleen in TCM. Some

Western TCM

writers refer to the Spleen as the Spleen-Pancreas.

The Chinese idea of a balanced diet is one that includes all 5 tastes.

The

proportion of the tastes will vary according to the individual's

needs.

>Smell : what do you smell ? How ? Why ?

Rancid - Wood (often Heat stagnating in Liver), burned smell - Fire

(often

Heart Fire), a sweet smell - Earth (often associated with Spleen

Deficiency

and Dampness), rank - Metal (often chronic Phlegm in Lungs), and

rotten -

Water (often Damp Heat in Bladder or Kidney imbalance). (Maciocia,

Foundations, p. 30).

Maciocia points out that the smell correspondences also are not

100%. A

rotten smell coming from the person can indicate Heat in any Organ,

not just

the Bladder. He also attributes a leatherly smell as pointing

to possible

Damp Heat and a fishy smell as pointing to the possibility of Damp

Cold. (p.

30.)

>Direction : Earth's direction is the center. Practically what does

>that mean ???

Earth being associated with the center has application in Feng Shui.

However, the other directions can be diagnostic. This is

not restricted to

Chinese medicine or Feng Shui. Some Native American healing

will have the

person sit in the 4 directions and meditate. Imbalances may

be revealed by

the person feeling less comfortable with his or her back to a certain

direction. For example, even before I tried this, I had noticed

that I feel

uncomfortable sitting with my back to the north. The associations

with

different directions will differ among different cultures and individuals.

So this is not something that can be used easily in healing.

There are no

set guidelines to this aspect of healing.

Victoria

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I'll have a go at this as well if I may... I'm still a student but I am

particularly interested in 5 elements and the beauty and simplicity of the

treatments of 5 element acupuncture. Those of you who are more experienced

with this please feel free to correct me or add to it... I will be talking

here about the implications of this in terms of 5 element acupuncture and

not 5 element theory.

 

> Emotions :

> What is the meaning for example of Joy being the emotion related to

> Fire and the Heart, or Small Intestine ? Does it mean that somebody

> really joyous has heart problems, or that he has a very good heart ?

 

One's emotion can be in excess or it can be deficient. First of all I need

to mention the concept of CF (causative factor). In 5E acupuncture each

person is seen to have an element that is particularly out of balance, that

is their CF. They say you are either born with it, or it develops early on

in life. If someone is a Fire CF, their emotion is joy, this joy will, at

times be in excess and at times it will be deficient. Fire CFs tend to be a

great laugh at parties or in social situations, but they can also have a

sadness and vulnerability within them that can never really be fulfilled.

 

Earth people tend be very good at sympathising with others but at times they

can either demand too much sympathy or reject any sympathy when offered.

 

Water people can be very fearful or not at all, Wood too assertive or

lacking in assertiveness, etc

 

> Taste :

> Salty being the taste related to Water element - Kidneys. Does that

> mean that if someone has weak kidney, he needs to eat more or less

> salt ?

 

This I'm not 100% about, but my understanding is:

 

Say somone is a Water CF, they will either love the salty flavour, or really

hate it. This can also be used in treatment: say someone's Water is

deficient, you encourage them to eat pungent flaroured foods (related to the

Metal element, the 'mother' of water, in the sheng cycle), if their Water is

in excess (not very likely) you encourage them to eat sweet flavoured foods,

which relate to Earth, the element that controls Water in the Ke cycle.

 

> Smell : what do you smell ? How ? Why ?

 

Odour helps in the diagnosis. This takes ages to learn and few people are

really good at it. The odour is more strongly sensed in the area between the

shoulderblades, and you usually go out of the room and come back into it

after you asked your patient to undress (that makes it easier for you to

detect the smell).

 

The same applies to colour. The colour of the CF is usually seen to the side

of the eye or on the 'laugh lines', you see flashes of colour in the face,

especially when people are expressing the emotion related to their CF.

 

Sound is the tone in their voice... Groaning is flat, as if afraid. Shout

does not necessarily imply loud, but it does sound as if they are shouting,

it sounds clipped. 'Sing' goes up and down, as in the welsh accent. Weep

sounds 'crackly', as if they are about to cry. 'Laugh' sounds like it could

be tickled. People can also have a 'lack of' when it comes to the sound in

their voice, so for instance, Fire CFs can sound a bit flat, lacking in

laugh...

 

> Direction : Earth's direction is the center. Practically what does

> that mean ???

 

Hmmmm, I'm not sure what the implications are in 5E acup, I'd better get

back to my books

 

> I would be very thankful if you have suggestions about where to get

> this information.

 

Well, there isn't an awful lot out there about 5E acup, but you can start

with 'Healing your emotions', as Susie mentioned and then go for the JR

Worsley books if you really want to get into it.

 

Hope this helps,

Ce

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Cecilia, for additional insights.

 

Victoria

>I'll have a go at this as well if I may... I'm still a student but I am

>particularly interested in 5 elements and the beauty and simplicity of the

>treatments of 5 element acupuncture. Those of you who are more experienced

>with this please feel free to correct me or add to it... I will be talking

>here about the implications of this in terms of 5 element acupuncture and

>not 5 element theory.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

There's also a great book about mind/body accupressure called

The Joy of Feeling by Iona Teegarden

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " Susie " <yinyang@b...> wrote:

>

>

> Frederic,

> 5 Element theory is about the wheel of life and nature and can be

used in

> many different ways eg as a diagnostic tool as in 5 Element

acupuncture. I

> don't know exactly what information you need and for what purpose,

but a

> good introduction is " the Law of the Five Elements " by Dianne

Connelly.

> Another good book is " Healing your emotions: Discover your Element

type and

> Change your life " by Angela and John Hicks.

> Susie

[Guest guest]

If you felt unconfortable when your back was facing the South what

would that indicate a difficiency in? The organs associated with the

South? Heart and small intestine?

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " Judy Fitzgerald " <victoria_dragon@h...>

wrote:

> >Taste :

> >Salty being the taste related to Water element - Kidneys. Does that

> >mean that if someone has weak kidney, he needs to eat more or less

> >salt ?

>

> Each of the 5 Elements has a taste associated with it. These are

sour -

> Wood, bitter - Fire, sweet - Earth, pungent (spicy) - Metal, and

salthy -

> Water (Kidneys and Bladder).

>

> " A sour taste often accompanies Liver disharmonies, a bitter taste

is part

> of the pattern of Heart-Fire, a sweet taste is often indicative of

Spleen

> deficiency, a pungent taste sometimes accompanies Lung disharmonies

and a

> salty taste occasionally is associated with Kidney deficiency.

>

> " The taste correspondences also suffer from certain limitations, in

the same

> way as for the colours. For example, a sour taste is more

frequently

> present in Stomach disharmonies, a bitter taste is also more

frequently

> indicative of Liver disharmonies such as Liver-Fire and a sweet

taste can

> also indicate retention of Dampness.

>

> " Besides this, there are also other types of tastes often described

by

> patients that do not fit into this scheme. For example, a 'flat'

taste

> indicates Spleen deficiency and a 'sticky' taste indicates

retention of

> Dampness. " (Giovanni Maciocia, The Foundations of Chinese

Medicine, p.30.)

>

> Maciocia goes on to say, " A bitter taste indicates a Full-Heat

pattern,

> either of Liver or Heart. If it is due to Liver-Fire, the bitter

taste is

> more or less constant. If it is due to Heart-Fire, it is

associated with

> insomnia, and is only present in the morning after a sleepless

night, and

> not after a good night's sleep. " (p. 157.)

>

> Kidney Yin Deficiency often causes a person to have a salty taste

in the

> mouth. A poor sense of taste or a lack of a sense of taste can be

> associated with Spleen Deficiency. (p. 157) From a Western

standpoint, a

> zinc deficiency also can result in a diminished or absent sense of

taste.

>

> In addition, the 5 tastes also have an affinity for certain

Organs. This is

> not 100%, but it does occur. Foods and herbs with a salty taste

tend to

> have an affinity for the Kidneys. Some herbs act as " guide "

herbs. What

> they do is to guide the effects of the herbs (and food) to certain

Organs.

> Some of the formulas for Kidney imbalance call for the formula to

be taken

> with a pinch of salt. The salt insures that the formula is

directed to the

> Kidneys.

>

> Too little or too much of a particular taste can trigger imbalance

in a

> particular Element and its Organs. There also are

contraindications. For

> example, the salty taste can dry the Blood and aggravate Blood

Deficiency.

> (Maciocia, p. 33. For a list of contraindications see The

Foundations of

> , p. 33, " The Five Elements in Herbal and Diet

Therapy " .)

>

> When considering the sweet taste being associated with the Spleen

(and

> Earth), remember that many of the functions associated with the

pancreas in

> Western medicine are associated with the Spleen in TCM. Some

Western TCM

> writers refer to the Spleen as the Spleen-Pancreas.

>

> The Chinese idea of a balanced diet is one that includes all 5

tastes. The

> proportion of the tastes will vary according to the individual's

needs.

>

> >Smell : what do you smell ? How ? Why ?

>

> Rancid - Wood (often Heat stagnating in Liver), burned smell - Fire

(often

> Heart Fire), a sweet smell - Earth (often associated with Spleen

Deficiency

> and Dampness), rank - Metal (often chronic Phlegm in Lungs), and

rotten -

> Water (often Damp Heat in Bladder or Kidney imbalance). (Maciocia,

> Foundations, p. 30).

>

> Maciocia points out that the smell correspondences also are not

100%. A

> rotten smell coming from the person can indicate Heat in any Organ,

not just

> the Bladder. He also attributes a leatherly smell as pointing to

possible

> Damp Heat and a fishy smell as pointing to the possibility of Damp

Cold. (p.

> 30.)

>

> >Direction : Earth's direction is the center. Practically what does

> >that mean ???

>

> Earth being associated with the center has application in Feng

Shui.

> However, the other directions can be diagnostic. This is not

restricted to

> Chinese medicine or Feng Shui. Some Native American healing will

have the

> person sit in the 4 directions and meditate. Imbalances may be

revealed by

> the person feeling less comfortable with his or her back to a

certain

> direction. For example, even before I tried this, I had noticed

that I feel

> uncomfortable sitting with my back to the north. The associations

with

> different directions will differ among different cultures and

individuals.

> So this is not something that can be used easily in healing. There

are no

> set guidelines to this aspect of healing.

>

> Victoria

>

>

> _______________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.