For those new to list

[Guest guest]

The earliest posts in the message group are designed to walk those

new to TCM through the basics.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

hello!! its me again......its strange, the more and more information

i find on chinese herbs, the more i see your name....well from what i

have gathered for a traditional jow there are roughly 7-9 main

ingreadients that all of them have, each herb from what i have found

have these following qualities

promotes bloodflow

stregthes bone and ligaments

prevents swelling

reduces pain

astringent

have some kind of specific healing property

have hot/cold properties

have specific properties for qi/ki building property

ranges from the fruit, seed, root, leaf, bark, animal parts (bones,

organs).....there are some others as well, what i have found is that

the only specific thing was that it had herbs that were indiginous to

whatever area they grew in....it is then a good jump in logic to

think that you could use other healing herbs as substitutes or in

addition to the usual formula (which is probably why there were so

many of them)....anyhow that is what i have so far....i am still

awaiting your reply to my original post with great anticipation....

 

Warrior

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " victoria_dragon " <victoria_dragon@h...>

wrote:

> The earliest posts in the message group are designed to walk those

> new to TCM through the basics.

>

> Victoria

[Guest guest]

samurai_warrior_2002 wrote:

 

> what i have found is that

> the only specific thing was that it had herbs that were indiginous to

> whatever area they grew in....it is then a good jump in logic to

> think that you could use other healing herbs as substitutes

 

Dear Sam, ; )

 

There are two schools of thought on this " use indigenous herbs " idea.

I'm not even sure that this is what you're proposing, so pardon my

" reading something into your statement " .

 

One school says that herbs that are grown locally are better than herbs

that come from, oh, say, China. (Unless of course you're in China when

you need the herbs).

 

The other school of thought says that herbs from China can treat people

in, let's say, Omaha Nebraska as well as they can treat people in China.

I myself go with this particular way of thinking, mostly because the

Chinese herbal tradition is so well defined that I like to use it, and

of course there are plenty of suppliers of these products. Besides, how

many healing herbs really grow in Omaha anyway? And how far is it that

you can travel for herbs before leaving your energetic area? Across the

Missouri river? Across the Rocky Mountains? Its hard to say, even in

China, its a big place.

 

Macrobiotics as a dietary paradigm also suggests that you eat things

that are grown locally and eaten in season. I like this more than the

herbal idea of using things grown locally.

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

.....i am still

>awaiting your reply to my original post with great anticipation....

 

I apologize for being so long getting back to you. I'm going to have to

check back through the message base to review the original post as soon as

we finish getting moved in. We didn't buy the original house we moved into

(too much wrong with it), and ended up having to find something in another

county. Good thing we never fully unpacked in the first place.

 

>have gathered for a traditional jow there are roughly 7-9 main

>ingreadients that all of them have, each herb from what i have found

>have these following qualities

>promotes bloodflow

>stregthes bone and ligaments

>prevents swelling

>reduces pain

>astringent

>have some kind of specific healing property

>have hot/cold properties

>have specific properties for qi/ki building property

 

For the benefit of those who have just joined the list, this information

concerns formulas for martial artists. You've done a lot of research on

this.

 

>ranges from the fruit, seed, root, leaf, bark, animal parts (bones,

>organs).....there are some others as well,

 

Later I want to post a list of the names used in Western pharmacology to

indicate the part of the plant (or animal) which is used. This can be

critical in some cases. For example Herba Ephedra's properties (the part of

the Ephedra plant that grows above ground) are the opposite of Radix (root

of) Ephedra. Don't want to get those two mixed up.

 

>what i have found is that

>the only specific thing was that it had herbs that were indiginous to

>whatever area they grew in....it is then a good jump in logic to

>think that you could use other healing herbs as substitutes or in

>addition to the usual formula (which is probably why there were so

>many of them

 

If one knows the basic rules of concocting formulas, one can come up with an

effective formula. I first learned to make my own formulas, and with the

exception of Minor Blue Green Dragon tea, these have worked better for me

than taking a classical formula out of a book. (I had a lot of complex

problems to work through.) In some cases I discovered that some of the

formulas I came up with for specific problems were classical formulas.

(Knowing the basic rules can enable one to do a lot.)

 

I am leery about putting a herb into a TCM formula that I don't know the

basic TCM properties of. For example, cayenne. Cayenne does help me, and I

do take it (works better in food for me than in capsules). But I won't try

to place cayenne in a TCM formula because I don't know its TCM properties.

 

Part of the basic rules of formulas is knowing which herbs to avoid mixing

because they will cancel each other out, antagonize each other, create bad

reactions, etc.

 

In olden times, people were more limited in what herbs they were able to

obtain. The best locally grown herb may or may not have been the best herb

for the individual. But it was what was the most available (and often most

affordable). People have more choices today in fine-tuning treatment due to

modern transportation.

 

BTW, the Chinese are analyzing herbs from around the world for their TCM

properties. The Chinese import a lot of American ginsing because it has some

properties which are different from the eastern ginsings and is safe to use

in some cases where some of the properties of ginsing are needed but other

properties of the eastern ginsings are contraindicated. From time to time I

post information on non-TCM herbs that have special properties that someone

with more knowledge and training than I have may be interested in. Someone

with the training to be able to analyze non-TCM herbs and figure out their

TCM properties.

 

TCM has always grown to meet new health challenges. Herbs usually aren't

substituted willy-nilly but after careful analysis and observation. For

example, codonopsis tends to work better than ginsing in formulas for PWCs

(People With CFIDS).

 

Victoria

 

 

_______________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

no no, what i meant is that the ingredients that are used were used

because they grew in that area, they didn't go to different areas or

countries they simply used the stuff at hand. what i meant that is

that if they had access to herbs such as yucca, aloe, yerba matte and

such that the linaments would be different. there are a multitude of

herbal combinations that you could concoct if you new their

properties, the only reason the chinese herbs are so popular is that

the chinese have been litterally " guinea pigging " themselves with

them for so long. The only reason the chinese herbs are more

respected than any other is simply because they tested theirs longer.

Now what you are stating however is that the herbs may be stronger in

the area that they grew in?? supposing the theory of energy lines and

meridians are true, and considering the fact that " energy spots " have

been well documented and of course the fact that the chinese believed

that everything worked according to the time, place, area and even

cosmic alignment of stars and planets......then yes what you say may

be true....perhaps the stuff is stronger where it grew....who knows??

my school of thought is that if you believe in one theory then the

rest has to hold to true as well. That is why i feel that there is

more to chinese medicine that meets the eye........everything, the

herbs, the meditations, acupuncture....and so on, they were all

created to compliment one another.....

 

Warrior

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote:

>

>

> samurai_warrior_2002 wrote:

>

> > what i have found is that

> > the only specific thing was that it had herbs that were

indiginous to

> > whatever area they grew in....it is then a good jump in logic to

> > think that you could use other healing herbs as substitutes

>

> Dear Sam, ; )

>

> There are two schools of thought on this " use indigenous herbs "

idea.

> I'm not even sure that this is what you're proposing, so pardon my

> " reading something into your statement " .

>

> One school says that herbs that are grown locally are better than

herbs

> that come from, oh, say, China. (Unless of course you're in China

when

> you need the herbs).

>

> The other school of thought says that herbs from China can treat

people

> in, let's say, Omaha Nebraska as well as they can treat people in

China.

> I myself go with this particular way of thinking, mostly because

the

> Chinese herbal tradition is so well defined that I like to use it,

and

> of course there are plenty of suppliers of these products.

Besides, how

> many healing herbs really grow in Omaha anyway? And how far is it

that

> you can travel for herbs before leaving your energetic area?

Across the

> Missouri river? Across the Rocky Mountains? Its hard to say, even

in

> China, its a big place.

>

> Macrobiotics as a dietary paradigm also suggests that you eat things

> that are grown locally and eaten in season. I like this more than

the

> herbal idea of using things grown locally.

>

> --

> Al Stone L.Ac.

> <AlStone@B...>

> http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

>

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your reply!! What you have stated is basically what i

am finding as well......In Martial Arts we are taught that everything

is tied together, the meditation, the conditioning, the

physical/maintenance excercises and the use of liniaments and herbs.

I was told that the warriors of old did all of them together, that

just doing one thing would not completely do the trick (in other

words just taking herbs, or only going to get a session in

acupuncture alone are not enough)......this of course is going to

lead into another subject altogether which i believed i had asked

before in that if you in tcm assign your patients (i am of course

assuming that you are docters, or acupuncturists)any kind of

maintenance excercises, herbal tonics and such.....again thank you

for your response

tony

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " Judy Fitzgerald " <victoria_dragon@h...>

wrote:

> ....i am still

> >awaiting your reply to my original post with great anticipation....

>

> I apologize for being so long getting back to you. I'm going to

have to

> check back through the message base to review the original post as

soon as

> we finish getting moved in. We didn't buy the original house we

moved into

> (too much wrong with it), and ended up having to find something in

another

> county. Good thing we never fully unpacked in the first place.

>

> >have gathered for a traditional jow there are roughly 7-9 main

> >ingreadients that all of them have, each herb from what i have

found

> >have these following qualities

> >promotes bloodflow

> >stregthes bone and ligaments

> >prevents swelling

> >reduces pain

> >astringent

> >have some kind of specific healing property

> >have hot/cold properties

> >have specific properties for qi/ki building property

>

> For the benefit of those who have just joined the list, this

information

> concerns formulas for martial artists. You've done a lot of

research on

> this.

>

> >ranges from the fruit, seed, root, leaf, bark, animal parts (bones,

> >organs).....there are some others as well,

>

> Later I want to post a list of the names used in Western

pharmacology to

> indicate the part of the plant (or animal) which is used. This can

be

> critical in some cases. For example Herba Ephedra's properties

(the part of

> the Ephedra plant that grows above ground) are the opposite of

Radix (root

> of) Ephedra. Don't want to get those two mixed up.

>

> >what i have found is that

> >the only specific thing was that it had herbs that were indiginous

to

> >whatever area they grew in....it is then a good jump in logic to

> >think that you could use other healing herbs as substitutes or in

> >addition to the usual formula (which is probably why there were so

> >many of them

>

> If one knows the basic rules of concocting formulas, one can come

up with an

> effective formula. I first learned to make my own formulas, and

with the

> exception of Minor Blue Green Dragon tea, these have worked better

for me

> than taking a classical formula out of a book. (I had a lot of

complex

> problems to work through.) In some cases I discovered that some of

the

> formulas I came up with for specific problems were classical

formulas.

> (Knowing the basic rules can enable one to do a lot.)

>

> I am leery about putting a herb into a TCM formula that I don't

know the

> basic TCM properties of. For example, cayenne. Cayenne does help

me, and I

> do take it (works better in food for me than in capsules). But I

won't try

> to place cayenne in a TCM formula because I don't know its TCM

properties.

>

> Part of the basic rules of formulas is knowing which herbs to avoid

mixing

> because they will cancel each other out, antagonize each other,

create bad

> reactions, etc.

>

> In olden times, people were more limited in what herbs they were

able to

> obtain. The best locally grown herb may or may not have been the

best herb

> for the individual. But it was what was the most available (and

often most

> affordable). People have more choices today in fine-tuning

treatment due to

> modern transportation.

>

> BTW, the Chinese are analyzing herbs from around the world for

their TCM

> properties. The Chinese import a lot of American ginsing because it

has some

> properties which are different from the eastern ginsings and is

safe to use

> in some cases where some of the properties of ginsing are needed

but other

> properties of the eastern ginsings are contraindicated. From time

to time I

> post information on non-TCM herbs that have special properties that

someone

> with more knowledge and training than I have may be interested in.

Someone

> with the training to be able to analyze non-TCM herbs and figure

out their

> TCM properties.

>

> TCM has always grown to meet new health challenges. Herbs usually

aren't

> substituted willy-nilly but after careful analysis and observation.

For

> example, codonopsis tends to work better than ginsing in formulas

for PWCs

> (People With CFIDS).

>

> Victoria

>

>

> _______________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

>Now what you are stating however is that the herbs may be stronger in

>the area that they grew in?? supposing the theory of energy lines and

>meridians are true, and considering the fact that " energy spots " have

>been well documented and of course the fact that the chinese believed

>that everything worked according to the time, place, area and even

>cosmic alignment of stars and planets

 

This is a subject which interests me a lot because the herbalist I saw (and

who was my first TCM teacher) made the comment that he was anxious to obtain

a U.S. source of I believe good quality dan shen because it is such a useful

herb in his practice and he was worried about politics one day halting

supplies of the herb from China.

 

So if anyone has any information on other places in the world where TCM

herbs will grow potently, please share the information.

 

One reason that the Chinese import so much American ginsing instead of just

growing it under shade in China is because ginsing of any type grown in

forests is superior to that grown under shade cloth. China has few forested

areas.

 

Some TCM herbs should be able to be grown in various places in the world

with the full potency of those grown in China. It's a matter of finding out

what will thrive where.

 

BTW, the strongest cayenne is grown the closer one is to the equator. It's

not that cayenne won't grow other places; it's that the most potent grows

where the sun is strongest and there are a lot of sunny days. Very potent

cayenne can be grown in the deserts of the southwest U.S. and in Mexico.

 

>more to chinese medicine that meets the eye........everything, the

>herbs, the meditations, acupuncture....and so on, they were all

>created to compliment one another.....

 

I recommend people do as much as possible to help themselves. After I had

been sick with CFIDS for a number of years - but long before I discovered

I came to realize and accept that there was no " magic bullet " that

would rid me of what ailed me. What I did have were a lot of little things

that when done together added up and helped. These included diet, vitamins

and minerals, meditation, visualization, massage, etc. They kept me going

until I was fortunate enough to be told about a local TCM herbalist. Because

of my prior experiences, I willingly added the Qi Gong exercises, and they

do help in ways that the herbs and acupressure alone don't help. That extra

bit of help that I need.

 

Victoria

 

 

_______________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

" > I recommend people do as much as possible to help themselves.

After I had

> been sick with CFIDS for a number of years - but long before I

discovered

> I came to realize and accept that there was no " magic bullet "

that

> would rid me of what ailed me. "

ah yes ye old " magic bullet " syndrome.....sensei would always caution

us against that, his answer to that is that if you look too much into

a magic cure that you simply will miss the point...the fact is that

it is the human spirit that is important. ....it has a lot to do with

the mentality behind such concepts such as being healthy enough to

simply enjoy life, that no man or woman is immortal......you are

right in pointing that out right away, wise piece of advice (pardon

the old cliche')

warrior

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " Judy Fitzgerald " <victoria_dragon@h...>

wrote:

> >Now what you are stating however is that the herbs may be stronger

in

> >the area that they grew in?? supposing the theory of energy lines

and

> >meridians are true, and considering the fact that " energy spots "

have

> >been well documented and of course the fact that the chinese

believed

> >that everything worked according to the time, place, area and even

> >cosmic alignment of stars and planets

>

> This is a subject which interests me a lot because the herbalist I

saw (and

> who was my first TCM teacher) made the comment that he was anxious

to obtain

> a U.S. source of I believe good quality dan shen because it is such

a useful

> herb in his practice and he was worried about politics one day

halting

> supplies of the herb from China.

>

> So if anyone has any information on other places in the world where

TCM

> herbs will grow potently, please share the information.

>

> One reason that the Chinese import so much American ginsing instead

of just

> growing it under shade in China is because ginsing of any type

grown in

> forests is superior to that grown under shade cloth. China has few

forested

> areas.

>

> Some TCM herbs should be able to be grown in various places in the

world

> with the full potency of those grown in China. It's a matter of

finding out

> what will thrive where.

>

> BTW, the strongest cayenne is grown the closer one is to the

equator. It's

> not that cayenne won't grow other places; it's that the most potent

grows

> where the sun is strongest and there are a lot of sunny days. Very

potent

> cayenne can be grown in the deserts of the southwest U.S. and in

Mexico.

>

> >more to chinese medicine that meets the eye........everything, the

> >herbs, the meditations, acupuncture....and so on, they were all

> >created to compliment one another.....

>

> I recommend people do as much as possible to help themselves.

After I had

> been sick with CFIDS for a number of years - but long before I

discovered

> I came to realize and accept that there was no " magic bullet "

that

> would rid me of what ailed me. What I did have were a lot of

little things

> that when done together added up and helped. These included diet,

vitamins

> and minerals, meditation, visualization, massage, etc. They kept me

going

> until I was fortunate enough to be told about a local TCM

herbalist. Because

> of my prior experiences, I willingly added the Qi Gong exercises,

and they

> do help in ways that the herbs and acupressure alone don't help.

That extra

> bit of help that I need.

>

> Victoria

>

>

> _______________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

HI!! its me again i have a good list of herbs now with both chinese,

pinyin and latin names, some of them i even have a list of specific

properties each of these have ( i was amazed at how many of them are

actually drunk in tea or wine!) the only one i haven't found is an

herb call lu jing, now the closest i could come up with is deer

essence (lu = deer jing = essence?) i could be completely wrong...i

am still looking for the one you have listed, perhaps you can assist

me with the name of this herb???

warrior

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " Judy Fitzgerald " <victoria_dragon@h...>

wrote:

> >Now what you are stating however is that the herbs may be stronger

in

> >the area that they grew in?? supposing the theory of energy lines

and

> >meridians are true, and considering the fact that " energy spots "

have

> >been well documented and of course the fact that the chinese

believed

> >that everything worked according to the time, place, area and even

> >cosmic alignment of stars and planets

>

> This is a subject which interests me a lot because the herbalist I

saw (and

> who was my first TCM teacher) made the comment that he was anxious

to obtain

> a U.S. source of I believe good quality dan shen because it is such

a useful

> herb in his practice and he was worried about politics one day

halting

> supplies of the herb from China.

>

> So if anyone has any information on other places in the world where

TCM

> herbs will grow potently, please share the information.

>

> One reason that the Chinese import so much American ginsing instead

of just

> growing it under shade in China is because ginsing of any type

grown in

> forests is superior to that grown under shade cloth. China has few

forested

> areas.

>

> Some TCM herbs should be able to be grown in various places in the

world

> with the full potency of those grown in China. It's a matter of

finding out

> what will thrive where.

>

> BTW, the strongest cayenne is grown the closer one is to the

equator. It's

> not that cayenne won't grow other places; it's that the most potent

grows

> where the sun is strongest and there are a lot of sunny days. Very

potent

> cayenne can be grown in the deserts of the southwest U.S. and in

Mexico.

>

> >more to chinese medicine that meets the eye........everything, the

> >herbs, the meditations, acupuncture....and so on, they were all

> >created to compliment one another.....

>

> I recommend people do as much as possible to help themselves.

After I had

> been sick with CFIDS for a number of years - but long before I

discovered

> I came to realize and accept that there was no " magic bullet "

that

> would rid me of what ailed me. What I did have were a lot of

little things

> that when done together added up and helped. These included diet,

vitamins

> and minerals, meditation, visualization, massage, etc. They kept me

going

> until I was fortunate enough to be told about a local TCM

herbalist. Because

> of my prior experiences, I willingly added the Qi Gong exercises,

and they

> do help in ways that the herbs and acupressure alone don't help.

That extra

> bit of help that I need.

>

> Victoria

>

>

> _______________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Never heard of Lu Jing. However Lu Jiao is dear antler and Lu Jiao Jiao

is deer antler glue and Lu Jiao Jiao is the bass line from a fifties

doo-wap tune. ha ha. ; )

 

samurai_warrior_2002 wrote:

>

> HI!! its me again i have a good list of herbs now with both chinese,

> pinyin and latin names, some of them i even have a list of specific

> properties each of these have ( i was amazed at how many of them are

> actually drunk in tea or wine!) the only one i haven't found is an

> herb call lu jing, now the closest i could come up with is deer

> essence (lu = deer jing = essence?) i could be completely wrong...i

> am still looking for the one you have listed, perhaps you can assist

> me with the name of this herb???

> warrior

>

> Chinese Traditional Medicine, " Judy Fitzgerald " <victoria_dragon@h...>

> wrote:

> > >Now what you are stating however is that the herbs may be stronger

> in

> > >the area that they grew in?? supposing the theory of energy lines

> and

> > >meridians are true, and considering the fact that " energy spots "

> have

> > >been well documented and of course the fact that the chinese

> believed

> > >that everything worked according to the time, place, area and even

> > >cosmic alignment of stars and planets

> >

> > This is a subject which interests me a lot because the herbalist I

> saw (and

> > who was my first TCM teacher) made the comment that he was anxious

> to obtain

> > a U.S. source of I believe good quality dan shen because it is such

> a useful

> > herb in his practice and he was worried about politics one day

> halting

> > supplies of the herb from China.

> >

> > So if anyone has any information on other places in the world where

> TCM

> > herbs will grow potently, please share the information.

> >

> > One reason that the Chinese import so much American ginsing instead

> of just

> > growing it under shade in China is because ginsing of any type

> grown in

> > forests is superior to that grown under shade cloth. China has few

> forested

> > areas.

> >

> > Some TCM herbs should be able to be grown in various places in the

> world

> > with the full potency of those grown in China. It's a matter of

> finding out

> > what will thrive where.

> >

> > BTW, the strongest cayenne is grown the closer one is to the

> equator. It's

> > not that cayenne won't grow other places; it's that the most potent

> grows

> > where the sun is strongest and there are a lot of sunny days. Very

> potent

> > cayenne can be grown in the deserts of the southwest U.S. and in

> Mexico.

> >

> > >more to chinese medicine that meets the eye........everything, the

> > >herbs, the meditations, acupuncture....and so on, they were all

> > >created to compliment one another.....

> >

> > I recommend people do as much as possible to help themselves.

> After I had

> > been sick with CFIDS for a number of years - but long before I

> discovered

> > I came to realize and accept that there was no " magic bullet "

> that

> > would rid me of what ailed me. What I did have were a lot of

> little things

> > that when done together added up and helped. These included diet,

> vitamins

> > and minerals, meditation, visualization, massage, etc. They kept me

> going

> > until I was fortunate enough to be told about a local TCM

> herbalist. Because

> > of my prior experiences, I willingly added the Qi Gong exercises,

> and they

> > do help in ways that the herbs and acupressure alone don't help.

> That extra

> > bit of help that I need.

> >

> > Victoria

> >

> >

> > _______________

> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

> http://mobile.msn.com

>

>

>

> Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine

>

>