Dietary therapy

[Guest guest]

Dear Mbanu,

 

> I've seen a lot

> of " cookbook " style charts, saying such and such calms shen,

> steaming is a more yin way of cooking than frying, etc., but it

> usually fails to mention *why* this is so.

 

I'm afraid that in this respect you won't be very lucky with any text.

The usual reasoning given is " because it's been observed time and again and

over and over " . Which is, in my opinion, a good basis for a theory which

enables you to treat real people with real sickness in a way that forseeably

makes them get better.

 

Whether you consider dietary therapy as an outcrop of herbalism or as a

therapy of its own, that's mere fussing over words.

Fact is that every food has certain medically usable properties and every

herb, too.

Eat too much hot food (lamb meat, trout, ...) or too much hot herbs

(cinnamon, pepper, cayenne, ...), sooner or later, you'll get heat problems. Use

your

foods and herbs and spices carefully and according to your needs, you'll

have less problems and feel better.

That's all.

 

A good book which explains quite a bit on *how* (not quite *why*, but

bettter than nothing) is Bob Flaw's and Honora Lee Wolfe's " Prince Wen Hui's

cookbook " .

This doesn't merely give the " avoid deep-fried ice cream with spleen

deficiency " , but leads you to a point where you know WHY to prefer or avoid

certain

foods with certain conditions.

 

Hope this helped you a bit.

 

Best regards

Rebecca

[Guest guest]

>I've been trying to find more info on the theory of Chinese Dietary

>Therapy and have been stumped. I was under the impression that it

>was a seperate field of study, rather than an offshoot of herbalism,

>but I simply don't know where to begin, source-wise. Which Chinese

>texts are considered " classics " in this field? Have any of them

>being translated out of the original Chinese?

 

Have you done a search for " diet " or " food " on acupuncture.com?

 

>I've seen a lot

>of " cookbook " style charts, saying such and such calms shen,

>steaming is a more yin way of cooking than frying, etc., but it

>usually fails to mention *why* this is so.

 

Yin is calming, cooling, and moistening. Yang is activating, heating, and

drying. In *general*, a cooking technique that adds (or at least doesn't

take away) moisture makes the food more yin. Like steaming. On the other

hand, frying tends to dry (even quick frying to a certain extent), so frying

tends to make foods more yang. Frying foods also tend to make them more

warming (yang). Think of the way many people instinctively chose foods. When

it's very cold, some people want foods that will tend to warm their bodies -

like hot soups (the temperature the food is served at), meats (which warm

the body - their thermal energy is warming regardless of what temperature

the meat is served at), etc. When it's very hot, the last thing most people

want is their bodies warmed up even more. So they tend to chose foods which

are more cooling and moistening in nature (more Yin) - like cool drinks or

vegetable soups instead soups with meat served hot. Like vegetables which do

not cause the body to heat up more like meats do. Steamed foods instead of

fried foods. Also keep in mind that " cold can attack/ hurt Yang " and " heat

can harm Yin. "

 

Each of the Organs is particularly vulnerable to one or more " Pernicious

Evils " . For example, the Kidneys are most vulnerable to Cold. The Spleen

is most vulnerable to Dampness. But the Spleen also is very vulnerable to

Cold. Not as much as the Kidneys, but the Spleen can be hurt by Cold. Ice

cream is one of the worst foods one can eat from a TCM standpoint. It's

cold. It's also made with milk, and milk is very Damp-engendering. Two

things the Spleen is harmed by - cold and dampness.

 

Also keep in mind the TCM model of digestion. The Stomach receives food and

liquids, heats them to a certain temperature, and " rottens and ripens " them

so they Spleen can extract the Qi (grain Qi) from the foods and carry it to

the Lungs where it mixes with the air Qi the Lungs extracted from the air.

If foods are cold or raw, the Stomach has to work harder to bring them up to

the proper temperature. The person is having to expend more energy to get

cold and/or raw food up to the proper temperature than s/he would be

expending were the food food and room-temperature or warm. (Note: Even

though TCM historically has spoken against raw foods, many people find that

they do better healthwise if they include some raw food in their diets. The

ban against raw foods is one that in my opinion needs to be re-examined and

perhaps modified. Keep in mind this is *some* raw foods. A diet which is

heavily raw vegetables could be detrimental. Moderation.) BTW, even though

the Spleen hates Dampness and prefers Dryness, the Stomach will be harmed by

Dryness and needs moisture. Balance.

 

In addition, each Flavor (sweet, bitter, salty, sour, or pungent (spicy,

acrid) has an affinity for a particular Organ and has certain properties.

For example, salty has an affinity for the Kidneys, and the salty taste

tends to dissolve hard masses. Foods and herbs with the pungent Flavor tend

to be warming and have an affinity for the Lungs. The Sweet flavor has an

affinity for the Spleen. Too little OR too much of a particular flavor can

be damaging to health. Think of the sweet Flavor. Too little, and the

person lacks energy. Too much and the person can develop diabetes. The

Chinese consider a balanced diet to be one that includes all 5 Flavors in

the ratios proper for the individual (and the time of the year). In addition

to the traditional 5 Flavors, Bland foods and herbs have the property of

leaching Dampness from the body. Some modern writers designate a sixth

Flavor - astringent.

 

Victoria

 

 

 

 

_______________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/29/2002 11:50:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

jcc writes:

 

<< That is why I am interested in discovering what the Chinese " classics " are

in this field >>

 

One book I have that is very good is " Chinese Dietary Therapy " ... Liu Jilin

(Main Editor) and Gordon Peck (Subject Editor).

 

It states on the back cover that " the book has been translated from a Chinese

text " but it doesn't mention it being a " classic " .

 

The only problem I have found is that some of the foods ... are foods I have

never heard of ... ones indigenous to China ... some really wild recipes

.... but there are also many common foods listed according to property and

actions.

 

There is alot in this book however besides properties of foods. It goes into

detail concerning principles and methods of dietary therapy, applications of

foods according to syndromes and also specific diseases. I have found it to

be very helpful.

 

Lynn

[Guest guest]

> A good book which explains quite a bit on *how* (not quite *why*,

> but bettter than nothing) is Bob Flaw's and Honora Lee

> Wolfe's " Prince Wen Hui's cookbook " . This doesn't merely give

> the " avoid deep-fried ice cream with spleen deficiency " , but leads

> you to a point where you know WHY to prefer or avoid certain foods

> with certain conditions.

 

Thanks for the advice! I enrolled in Bob Flaw's online correspondence

course " The Tao of Healthy Eating " a short while ago. I'll just have

to see how that turns out.

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

> Have you done a search for " diet " or " food " on acupuncture.com?

 

Yes. Acupuncture.com does have one of the best " beginner's guides " on

dietary therapy that I have found so far online, but I am looking for

further information.

 

I had read in a book on food energetics (I'll post the title and

author when I get a chance) that part of the " why " has to do with how

the food is grown; (the speed, direction etc.) For example, mushrooms

grow very rapidly in an upward and outward directtion; this would

make them considered a more yin food. However, the author also makes

some confusing statements, such as saying that pig (particularly wild

boar) is a particularly yang food, even compared to other meats. This

seems to run contrary to what I had learned previosly, that pig meat

is rather yin, as far as meats go. (In the five element correlation,

pig was correlated to water, chicken to wood, lamb to fire, beef to

earth, and horse to metal.)

 

That is why I am interested in discovering what the

Chinese " classics " are in this field. Most of the information I have

read doesn't have a particularly extensive bibliography

unfortunately, and it makes it difficult to trace theories back to

their sources.

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

Dear Mbanu,

 

Chinese Natural Cures by Henry C. Lu, is a good book on dietary medicine as

well as herbal chinese medicine. It's not a classic however.

 

 

Good luck,

Blaise

 

 

> " walmart_hurts " <jcc

>Chinese Traditional Medicine

>Chinese Traditional Medicine

>[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Dietary therapy

>Thu, 29 Aug 2002 01:38:25 -0000

>

>I've been trying to find more info on the theory of Chinese Dietary

>Therapy and have been stumped. I was under the impression that it

>was a seperate field of study, rather than an offshoot of herbalism,

>but I simply don't know where to begin, source-wise. Which Chinese

>texts ae considered " classics " in this field? Have any of them

>being translated out of the original Chinese? I've seen a lot

>of " cookbook " style charts, saying such and such calms shen,

>steaming is a more yin way of cooking than frying, etc., but it

>usually fails to mention *why* this is so. Any help that anyone

>could give would be greatly appreciated.

>

>Mbanu

>

>

 

 

 

 

_______________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Victoria,

 

You wrote:

> Chinese consider a balanced diet to be one that includes all 5

Flavors in

> the ratios proper for the individual (and the time of the year).

 

Does this mean that in the long summer we should eat more sweet

foods, and in the winter more salty foods, etc.?

 

Also, if someone has a Spleen deficiency, should they eat more or

less sweet foods? I know it's relative, but are there any general

guidelines for choosing flavours according to our organ states and

constitution?

 

 

Thank you,

Blaise

 

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " Judy Fitzgerald " <victoria_dragon@h...>

wrote:

> >I've been trying to find more info on the theory of Chinese Dietary

> >Therapy and have been stumped. I was under the impression that it

> >was a seperate field of study, rather than an offshoot of

herbalism,

> >but I simply don't know where to begin, source-wise. Which Chinese

> >texts are considered " classics " in this field? Have any of them

> >being translated out of the original Chinese?

>

> Have you done a search for " diet " or " food " on acupuncture.com?

>

> >I've seen a lot

> >of " cookbook " style charts, saying such and such calms shen,

> >steaming is a more yin way of cooking than frying, etc., but it

> >usually fails to mention *why* this is so.

>

> Yin is calming, cooling, and moistening. Yang is activating,

heating, and

> drying. In *general*, a cooking technique that adds (or at least

doesn't

> take away) moisture makes the food more yin. Like steaming. On the

other

> hand, frying tends to dry (even quick frying to a certain extent),

so frying

> tends to make foods more yang. Frying foods also tend to make them

more

> warming (yang). Think of the way many people instinctively chose

foods. When

> it's very cold, some people want foods that will tend to warm their

bodies -

> like hot soups (the temperature the food is served at), meats

(which warm

> the body - their thermal energy is warming regardless of what

temperature

> the meat is served at), etc. When it's very hot, the last thing

most people

> want is their bodies warmed up even more. So they tend to chose

foods which

> are more cooling and moistening in nature (more Yin) - like cool

drinks or

> vegetable soups instead soups with meat served hot. Like vegetables

which do

> not cause the body to heat up more like meats do. Steamed foods

instead of

> fried foods. Also keep in mind that " cold can attack/ hurt Yang "

and " heat

> can harm Yin. "

>

> Each of the Organs is particularly vulnerable to one or

more " Pernicious

> Evils " . For example, the Kidneys are most vulnerable to Cold. The

Spleen

> is most vulnerable to Dampness. But the Spleen also is very

vulnerable to

> Cold. Not as much as the Kidneys, but the Spleen can be hurt by

Cold. Ice

> cream is one of the worst foods one can eat from a TCM standpoint.

It's

> cold. It's also made with milk, and milk is very Damp-engendering.

Two

> things the Spleen is harmed by - cold and dampness.

>

> Also keep in mind the TCM model of digestion. The Stomach receives

food and

> liquids, heats them to a certain temperature, and " rottens and

ripens " them

> so they Spleen can extract the Qi (grain Qi) from the foods and

carry it to

> the Lungs where it mixes with the air Qi the Lungs extracted from

the air.

> If foods are cold or raw, the Stomach has to work harder to bring

them up to

> the proper temperature. The person is having to expend more energy

to get

> cold and/or raw food up to the proper temperature than s/he would

be

> expending were the food food and room-temperature or warm. (Note:

Even

> though TCM historically has spoken against raw foods, many people

find that

> they do better healthwise if they include some raw food in their

diets. The

> ban against raw foods is one that in my opinion needs to be re-

examined and

> perhaps modified. Keep in mind this is *some* raw foods. A diet

which is

> heavily raw vegetables could be detrimental. Moderation.) BTW,

even though

> the Spleen hates Dampness and prefers Dryness, the Stomach will be

harmed by

> Dryness and needs moisture. Balance.

>

> In addition, each Flavor (sweet, bitter, salty, sour, or pungent

(spicy,

> acrid) has an affinity for a particular Organ and has certain

properties.

> For example, salty has an affinity for the Kidneys, and the salty

taste

> tends to dissolve hard masses. Foods and herbs with the pungent

Flavor tend

> to be warming and have an affinity for the Lungs. The Sweet flavor

has an

> affinity for the Spleen. Too little OR too much of a particular

flavor can

> be damaging to health. Think of the sweet Flavor. Too little, and

the

> person lacks energy. Too much and the person can develop

diabetes. The

> Chinese consider a balanced diet to be one that includes all 5

Flavors in

> the ratios proper for the individual (and the time of the year). In

addition

> to the traditional 5 Flavors, Bland foods and herbs have the

property of

> leaching Dampness from the body. Some modern writers designate a

sixth

> Flavor - astringent.

>

> Victoria

>

>

>

>

> _______________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

> One book I have that is very good is " Chinese Dietary Therapy " ...

Liu Jilin

> (Main Editor) and Gordon Peck (Subject Editor).

 

Thanks! I'm sure as I work my way backwards up the " source tree " I'll

find the original chinese texts eventually. I prefer well written

English books anyways, at least for general learning. My Chinese is

poor, so I usually just refer to original texts to check particular

points for clarification.

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

> Chinese Natural Cures by Henry C. Lu, is a good book on dietary

medicine as

> well as herbal chinese medicine. It's not a classic however.

 

I'll give a look for it. Thanks!

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

>I had read in a book on food energetics (I'll post the title and

>author when I get a chance) that part of the " why " has to do with how

>the food is grown; (the speed, direction etc.) For example, mushrooms

>grow very rapidly in an upward and outward directtion; this would

>make them considered a more yin food.

 

I'm confused here. Usually Yang is upwards and outwards, and Yin is

downwards and inwards. (For readers new to TCM, the top of the body (head)

and the surface of the body is considered Yang in relation to the bottom of

the body (soles of feet) and the internal Organs. The back is Yang in

relation to the front of the body which is Yin in relation to the back of

the body. When you start to study acupoints, you'll find that the Yang

meridians transverse the back and the outsides of the arms and legs. The

Yin meridians transverse the front of the body and the inside of the arms

and legs.)

 

>However, the author also makes

>some confusing statements, such as saying that pig (particularly wild

>boar) is a particularly yang food, even compared to other meats. This

>seems to run contrary to what I had learned previosly, that pig meat

>is rather yin, as far as meats go. (In the five element correlation,

>pig was correlated to water, chicken to wood, lamb to fire, beef to

>earth, and horse to metal.)

 

I've seen disagreements among authors as the the properties of a particular

food. For example, some say almonds are Phlegm-producing, and others say

they are Phlegm-relieving. I suspect in the case of almonds how they affect

an individual will have to do with the type of Phlegm and its location as

well as other imbalances a person may have.

 

As you learn more in the course you're taking, I hope you'll share here.

This is a popular topic.

 

Thanks,

Victoria

 

 

_______________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

>You wrote:

> > Chinese consider a balanced diet to be one that includes all 5

>Flavors in

> > the ratios proper for the individual (and the time of the year).

>

>Does this mean that in the long summer we should eat more sweet

>foods, and in the winter more salty foods, etc.?

 

The main thing to be concerned with during the seasons is the thermal energy

of the food. In winter people tend to eat more warming foods and herbs than

at other times of the year - hot meat soups, stews, meat dishes, etc. It

counteracts the cold of the season and helps people be warm enough. In the

summer people tend to eat lighter - more vegetables. They don't want any

more heat added to their bodies like would be added with a dish like say

chili con carne. That's a good meal for a cold, winter night, not for a hot

summer day. But a meal that is good for summer - like a salad - would not

provide much heat during the cold of winter.

 

Now, to complicate things even more, it's also recommended that people eat

some foods with the same energy as the season - for example some Cold and

Yin foods during winter and some Hot and Yang foods during the summer. It

has to do with being in tune with the seasons and making sure one gets the

energy associated with that season so there won't be problems later on.

 

I suspect the second rule is more applicable for people who are healthy and

in balance. In the case of someone who is severely Hot or severely Cold,

the person is going to need more of the opposite energy regardless of the

season. For example, I used to be very Yang Deficient (aka Deficiency

Cold). I needed a diet that would supply the heat and Yang and warm me up.

I was particularly fond of things made with dried ginger (warms the

Interior) during this period - ginger tea, ginger pepper steak, ginger

chicken, ginger bread. I also was very fond of homemade chili with extra

cayenne in it. A lot of extra cayenne. What I ate back when I still was very

sick would have created problems for most people. They would have been

warmed up too much. I did cut back on the ginger tea as the weather warmed

up each spring and summer because I found myself getting too hot, but even

my seasonal scaled-back warming diet would have been too much for anyone who

wasn't Yang Deficient. (During the warm months I was getting part of the

warming I needed from the enviornment.) Today - after much improvement - my

diet still tends to be more warming and more Yang than that of most people,

but it's nothing like what it once was.

>

>Also, if someone has a Spleen deficiency, should they eat more or

>less sweet foods?

 

It depends. Too little is as bad as too much. Getting too little rarely is

a problem for most Westerners - unless the person is anorexic or on some

weird starvation diet. It has been a problem for some in China. Some

formulas will even call for the addition of sugar for some individuals with

weak Spleens.

 

On the other hand, too much sweet will overwhelm and weaken the Spleen.

(BTW, many of the functions of the pancreas are part of the Spleen in TCM.

Some Western writers even refer to the Spleen meridian and Organ system as

the Spleen-Pancreas.

 

Another good example of too little being as bad as too much is salt. Most

Westerners get enough or too much salt thanks to processed food, and they

need to cut back. But some individuals - like those with adrenal

insufficiency or with Neurally Mediated Hypotension - need more salt in

their diets than people usually need. If the person also is Yang Deficient,

the need for extra salt can become even greater than usual during the winter

(because of increased urination) and during the summer (because of increased

sweating). Some formulas for Kidney Deficiency will even direct that the

person take the formula with a pinch of salt.

 

>I know it's relative, but are there any general

>guidelines for choosing flavours according to our organ states and

>constitution?

 

Listen to your body, not to what you're told is good for everyone. There are

no one size fits all diets that are right for all people. Include some of

every Flavor (pungent, sweet, salty, sour, and bitter) at each meal. For

most people a little bit of bitter will go a long way. This can be bitter

herbs in a salad dressing (which also has lemon for sourness). But if you

start craving things that taste bitter, include more of these than most

people would. As far as sweets, experiment to find out what is optimal for

you. Most foods are classified as having a sweet Flavor (even meats). Part

of the reason why people on extreme diets end up binging on refined sweets

is they are not getting enough " sweet " from healthier foods. The craving for

" sweet " builds and becomes overwhelming. If they had been getting enough of

the sweet Flavor (and enough food in general), the craving would never have

gotten so strong that they end up binging on refined sweets. The Spleen is

already weak (from the lack of enough food), and the flood of refined sweets

just weakens it more.

 

Victoria

 

 

_______________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

> I'm confused here. Usually Yang is upwards and outwards, and Yin is

> downwards and inwards. (For readers new to TCM, the top of the body

(head)

 

If I understood the book correctly, the theory was that things which

are externally yang in nature are internally yin in nature, and that

when you consume something, it is the object's internal properties

that affect you. However, I'm not sure if he merely got confused over

Yin and Yang distinctions, or if he is in fact, correct. That's why

I've been looking for the original Chinese sources of dietary therapy

information.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps the book had macrobiotic origins or

inclusions. In macrobiotics yin and yang are,

generally, but not alway, direct opposites in

definition of natures. It was once explained to

me that the Japanese did that for benefit of

Westerners... that it would be easier for us to

understand the terms reversed.....that reasoning

doesn't quite make sense to me since the

concepts were totally new and had no precedents

in Western thought. hmmmm?????? Kit

 

 

 

At 03:17 AM 8/30/02 +0000, you wrote:

>

> > I'm confused here. Usually Yang is upwards and outwards, and Yin is

> > downwards and inwards. (For readers new to TCM, the top of the body

> (head)

>

> If I understood the book correctly, the theory was that things which

> are externally yang in nature are internally yin in nature, and that

> when you consume something, it is the object's internal properties

> that affect you. However, I'm not sure if he merely got confused over

> Yin and Yang distinctions, or if he is in fact, correct. That's why

> I've been looking for the original Chinese sources of dietary therapy

> information.

>

[Guest guest]

I believe someone recently mentioned Henery Lu's TCM dietary book. I

don't own it, but happened to leaf through a copy last night. I think

that it is absolutely phenomenal. Very well done, very accessable to

non-TCM persons, while not throwing out the tried and true TCM.

 

Al gives it two forks up!

 

 

walmart_hurts wrote:

>

> > One book I have that is very good is " Chinese Dietary Therapy " ...

> Liu Jilin

> > (Main Editor) and Gordon Peck (Subject Editor).

>

> Thanks! I'm sure as I work my way backwards up the " source tree " I'll

> find the original chinese texts eventually. I prefer well written

> English books anyways, at least for general learning. My Chinese is

> poor, so I usually just refer to original texts to check particular

> points for clarification.

>

> Mbanu

>

>

>

> Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine

>

>

[Guest guest]

The author did come to Chinese medicine from macrobiotics... thanks

for the advice.

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

Maybe the Yin designation of the " upward and outward action " is rooted in

where the action comes from? i.e.: here else can a Yin-natured mushroom go

but upward and outward.

 

Just a thought from Taoist and I Ching studies.

 

Doesn't it get crazily confusing sometimes :-P Theorums seeming

contradictory seem to depend upon perspective/point-of-view.

 

Deb

 

-

walmart_hurts <jcc

<Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Friday, August 30, 2002 10:06 AM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Dietary therapy

 

 

> The author did come to Chinese medicine from macrobiotics... thanks

> for the advice.

>

> Mbanu

>

>

>

>

> Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine

>

>

[Guest guest]

It does get kinda crazy... layers within layers within layers... and

when you finally think you've gotten to the middle, you find you've

somehow ended up back on the outside again.

 

Hopefully the course I'm taking in Dietary Therapy will help. The

paperwork just arrived, and I should start tomorrow.

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

Hallo!

 

--- Judy Fitzgerald <victoria_dragon

wrote:

 

> (Note: Even

> though TCM historically has spoken against raw

> foods, many people find that

> they do better healthwise if they include some raw

> food in their diets. The

> ban against raw foods is one that in my opinion

> needs to be re-examined and

> perhaps modified. Keep in mind this is *some* raw

> foods. A diet which is

> heavily raw vegetables could be detrimental.

> Moderation.)

 

Do you think you could go into this a little more?

I am interested in the TCM presentation of people who

do well eating raw foods.

 

Thanks for any clarification,

Bye,

Hugo

 

 

 

Everything you'll ever need on one web page

from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

http://uk.my.

[Guest guest]

If I understand correctly, the idea is that raw, especially chilled

foods are more taxing on the stomach and spleen, because the food

must be heated extra by the body to achieve the optimal temperature

for digestion.

 

Although raw foods are higher in vitamins and nutrients than cooked

foods, cooked foods require less effort on the part of the body. It

was explained in the class that I am taking on dietary therapy that

in overall effect, cooked foods were usually more nutritious because

the effort it would take to warm raw foods internally with the spleen

was more than the nutrients lost by cooking food externally.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Although it wasn't mentioned very much in my class, I think that raw

foods do play in important role. I think that much like muscles that

aren't used enough, if the digestive capabilities of the stomach and

spleen aren't used, that decline in digestive ability will result.

Raw foods are also supposedly quite useful in cases of excess, where

the extra difficulty of digestion will temper an overactive spleen

and stomach.

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

> Do you think you could go into this a little more?

 

I can't add anything to what Mbanu already has posted about raw food putting

more of a strain on the Spleen and Stomach.

 

> I am interested in the TCM presentation of people who

>do well eating raw foods.

 

I am one of those people. My major TCM problem was Kidney Yang Deficiency.

There also was Blood Deficiency, Yin Deficiency, and of course, Qi

Deficiency. I was very susceptible to weather changes. Still am but to a

much, much lesser degree. There were Dampness and Dryness problems as well

as Phlegm. Qi Stagnation problems. But the Kidney Yang Deficiency was by far

the worst. The Western diagnosis was CFIDS (Chronic Fatigue Immune

Dysfunction Syndrome, Fibromyalgia Syndrome, and chronic mononucleosis. The

CFIDS, FMS, and chronic/recurring mono problems were of 20+ years duration.

I got to noticing that I always felt better the day after I had a salad

(tomatoes and lettuce). The salad dressing doesn't matter. It can be any

dressing, commercial or homemade.

 

Raw strawberries were like medicine. I don't know of any other PWC who has

reported raw strawberries acting like medicine. Some have reported being

bothered by them. The strawberries did more back when I was the sickest. As

I improved, the effects were less dramatic.

 

Raw cherries also act like medicine for me. There is at least one doctor

who considers FMS a gout-like illness, and cherries have been a treatment

for some forms of gout. I didn't know about this when I started eating

them. I just craved cherries. Come to think of it, back when this all

started, the foods I wanted were cherries and strawberries, and some other

raw fruit (I forget which one). I had an aversion to any meat (because it

started with mono-induced hepatitis), and I didn't have much of an appetite

for any other foods. Except pancake syrup.

 

I've had to avoid dairy and wheat off and on over the course of this. The

last time lasted for years. The Dampness and Phlegm problems. Both are

notorious producers of Phlegm, especially dairy. I didn't know anything

about TCM during most of that time. I just knew that they were causing

allergic-like reactions. (Some " allergies " are not allergies but the result

of a weak Spleen unable to handle foods that tend to be Phlegm-producing.)

I've improved to the point that not only can I now handle moderate amounts

of dairy and wheat, some of the dairy now helps. Yogurt in particular. But

I still wouldn't try to drink a glass of milk or eat a bowl of cereal. I

enjoy pizza every once in a while. But I know not to overdo it on the pizza

or any cheese. A little bit is fine, and even seems to help some. The

problem with dairy was bad enough at one time that the least little amount

of milk in any form - even the lactose used as a filler/binder in pills -

was enough to send me to ER. (No matter how careful one is in reading

labels, it's easy to miss something. I was delighted to improve to the point

where I no longer had to worry about missing milk in the list of ingredients

or about hidden milk (like in some margarines). Needless to say, eating out

was next to impossible.)

 

People do improve, and diets (like herbal formulas) will need to be changed.

 

Victoria

 

 

_______________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

>

> I am interested in the TCM presentation of people who

> do well eating raw foods.

 

 

 

Hi Hugo,

I'm not sure to what extent you are talking about.... People on a raw food

diet

eventually will turn up with problems. It's not like eating raw food is

poison, but,

people with weak Spleens and Stomachs should avoid eating many. I think a

good rule of thumb is to eat seasonally....there are more fruits and veggies

available during the warmer months and it is OK to include more of them in

your diet....if your SP and ST are healthy. Kit

 

 

At 03:02 AM 9/7/02 +0100, you wrote:

>

> Hallo!

[Guest guest]

>Although it wasn't mentioned very much in my class, I think that raw

>foods do play in important role. I think that much like muscles that

>aren't used enough, if the digestive capabilities of the stomach and

>spleen aren't used, that decline in digestive ability will result.

>Raw foods are also supposedly quite useful in cases of excess, where

>the extra difficulty of digestion will temper an overactive spleen

>and stomach.

 

Another factor to consider is enzymes. Some enzymes found in raw foods help

health.

 

When one freezes food, the vegetables don't go straight from the garden into

the freezer. One needs to immerse the food very briefly in a hot water bath

in order to halt enzyme action. Otherwise, the food would continue to

ripen/rot in the freezer (though at a much slower rate than at room

temperature).

 

Victoria

 

 

_______________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

A neat quote that I've heard, seems to also apply to Chinese

dietotherapy:

 

" Don't eat it unless it rots, but eat it before it does! "

 

It also says something about this in Bob Flaw's book, _The Tao of

Healthy Eating_. Here is a section he wrote on something

called " Wrecked Foods " :

 

" Since Chinese medicine says that qi comes from the purest of the

pure part of foods, the xiang or flavor/aroma, Chinese dietary theory

also suggests that foods should be freshly made and eaten within 24

hours. As food becomes stale, it loses its aroma and its ability to

supplement qi is directly proportional to this aroma. Food which is

stale is called wrecked food in Chinese. The implication is that,

although the substance is still there, the xiang, aroma, or qi is

gone. Such wrecked foods tend to be more dampening and phlegmatic. "

 

If I understand correctly, this means that the qi portion of the food

disperses, leaving only the denser wei. I am kinda unsure about this

though.

 

Mbanu