Kydney syndrome at root?

[Guest guest]

Well, I obviously can't learn enough in a few days to diagnoses such a

complicated case as my horse, but I do think I might have seen something of

a 'root cause' that the vet didn't see, ieYin deficiency. I am sure there is

some kidney involvement too, but I think I see it more in the overall

historical picture rather than the acute human illness syndromes. Trouble

is, I have become very adept over the years at minimising symptoms too,

adapting diet and lifestyle for them etc.

 

Thinking about it, from what I can gather we are actually breeding horses of

'Yin deficient' type anyway in the Thoroughbred - highly strung, nervous,

easily over-excited, prone to nerves effecting digestion. A lot of them die

of colic before they ever reach old age

 

But they also have 'great heart' and boldness - that's what they are bred

for. Doesn't that look like a 'high yang' constitution? We sell a huge

volume of calming herb blend for horses in the UK - with chamomile,

skullcap, valerian etc

 

My horses' mother is gone now, but I see a similar lifetime process at work

in both of them. They were both born with a great deal of boldness, that was

what came naturally to them. Both very outward looking, strong, energetic,

excitable yes, always having difficulty calming themselves, but that was no

problem because I always ensured they had good nutrition and a stress free

home environment to replenish themselves - and at first there was no fear,

just ebullience, an abundance of life! They were joyful and playful and

wonderful to be around, if a little 'over-excited and silly' at times.

 

Gradually over the years the anxiety/fear increases to the point of almost

hysteria at times, almost true paranoia, along with the liver, and spleen

functions going more and more awry. The sons symptoms are a lot harder to

control than the mothers were - he has a heart murmur by the way - not a bad

enough one to cause any problem in a western sense, but in the Chinese

paradigm?

 

But the fear is the one thing I cannot control at all - that grows year by

year in spite of everything I do, together with the lessened capacity for

coping with stress.

 

I can regulate their digestion by 'what I put in the front end' so that what

comes out the back end is always pretty normal. They never have any urinary

problems but, they do get 'dehydrated' sometime, especially early spring,

for no apparent reason, and I cannot always control that - it is sometimes

very hard to fix because it cannot be defined, the cause not being known (no

normal cause). And then their hormones go more and more awry over the years.

 

Does this background pattern sound like it could be a kidney yin deficiency

at the root of it all? Could something like that produce a chronic insidious

syndrome, creeping into and causing the spleen and liver problems without

ever flaring up itself in an acute kidney syndrome?

 

If I am not going to make a complete twit of myself suggesting this to the

vet I will do so tommorrow - he hasn't come back to me yet, so I hope that

means he is thinking hard! I see now the horse does indeed have liver

(stagnation or rising yang) and spleen problems, and how making the liver

worse could have set the stomach off, so maybe he will suggest formulae to

address these when there is Yin deficiency anyway - seems to be pretty

obvious as a potential reason for the remedies not being right for him. He

was pretty loopy on the Ayurvedic this morning, so I think there is room for

improvement still.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Hi, maybe this makes sense, maybe not. Let me know.

 

1. Kidney Yin deficiency can lead to hyperactive heart fire

or `deficiency fire' as it is known. This is because the Kidney-

Bladder system has a natural inhibitory link to the Heart-Small

Intestine system but when Yin/Yang get separated in the Kidney, not

enough Yin goes up to the Heart with the Yang so the inhibition is

incomplete and dysfunctional. This manifests as irregular heart beat,

palpitations and insomnia. The corresponding emotion is lack of

happiness or despondency. The tongue becomes red and it acquires a

yellow coating. In humans the remedy is Yang Xue An Shen Wan, and

the effect can be almost immediate. In cases where there is an

emergency magnetitum or cinnabaris can be added for a short time to

calm the heart and ease the mind.

 

2. Kidney Yin deficiency can also lead to reverse restriction of the

Spleen-Stomach system. This is another dysfunctional effect arising

out of Kidney Yin/Yang separation and imbalance and may occur at the

same time as deficiency heart fire (different time of day though).

Reverse restriction of the spleen by excessive Kidney Yang can lead

to digestive problems, diarrhea or vomiting, weakness in the legs,

back pain. The tongue may be pale with a sticky coating. The

characteristic emotional tone is pensiveness which will make the

Heart related despondency worse. In humans the treatment would be a

spleen tonic such as Shen Ling Bai Zhu Wan

 

3. Another problem your horse may not be able to tell you about is

tinnitus which arises out of Kidney Yin deficiency and which will

exacerbate the negative emotions churned up by Heart and Spleen

disorder. Kidney Yin deficiency itself will have a characteristic

emotional tone of fearfulness and this is all quite consistent with

your account below. In humans the TCM treatment might be Liu Wei Di

Huang Wan.

 

4. Kidney Yin deficiency and Yang excess can also lead to inadequate

promotion of the Liver-Gall Bladder system. This may manifest as

inflammation - eye problems or tendonitis. The characteristic emotion

is anger. I haven't got any medicine for this bit but I can suggest

magnetic pads for the tendonitis - not sure about usage in the USA.

 

I haven't the faintest idea how human to horse doses relate but I

would be very interested to find out. I'm sending this off to a good

friend of mine who is a rancher and who knows thoroughbreds. Maybe he

can add something too.

 

Cheers,

 

Sammy.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~#>

 

Well, I obviously can't learn enough in a few days to diagnoses such a

complicated case as my horse, but I do think I might have seen

something of a 'root cause' that the vet didn't see, ieYin

deficiency. I am sure there is some kidney involvement too, but I

think I see it more in the overall historical picture rather than the

acute human illness syndromes. Trouble is, I have become very adept

over the years at minimising symptoms too, adapting diet and

lifestyle for them etc.

 

Thinking about it, from what I can gather we are actually breeding

horses of 'Yin deficient' type anyway in the Thoroughbred - highly

strung, nervous, easily over-excited, prone to nerves effecting

digestion. A lot of them die of colic before they ever reach old age

 

**

 

But they also have 'great heart' and boldness - that's what they are

bred

for. Doesn't that look like a 'high yang' constitution? We sell a huge

volume of calming herb blend for horses in the UK - with chamomile,

skullcap, valerian etc

 

My horses' mother is gone now, but I see a similar lifetime process

at work

in both of them. They were both born with a great deal of boldness,

that was

what came naturally to them. Both very outward looking, strong,

energetic,

excitable yes, always having difficulty calming themselves, but that

was no

problem because I always ensured they had good nutrition and a stress

free

home environment to replenish themselves - and at first there was no

fear,

just ebullience, an abundance of life! They were joyful and playful

and

wonderful to be around, if a little 'over-excited and silly' at times.

 

Gradually over the years the anxiety/fear increases to the point of

almost

hysteria at times, almost true paranoia, along with the liver, and

spleen

functions going more and more awry. The sons symptoms are a lot

harder to

control than the mothers were - he has a heart murmur by the way -

not a bad

enough one to cause any problem in a western sense, but in the Chinese

paradigm?

 

But the fear is the one thing I cannot control at all - that grows

year by

year in spite of everything I do, together with the lessened capacity

for

coping with stress.

 

I can regulate their digestion by 'what I put in the front end' so

that what

comes out the back end is always pretty normal. They never have any

urinary

problems but, they do get 'dehydrated' sometime, especially early

spring,

for no apparent reason, and I cannot always control that - it is

sometimes

very hard to fix because it cannot be defined, the cause not being

known (no

normal cause). And then their hormones go more and more awry over the

years.

 

Does this background pattern sound like it could be a kidney yin

deficiency

at the root of it all? Could something like that produce a chronic

insidious

syndrome, creeping into and causing the spleen and liver problems

without

ever flaring up itself in an acute kidney syndrome?

 

If I am not going to make a complete twit of myself suggesting this

to the

vet I will do so tommorrow - he hasn't come back to me yet, so I hope

that

means he is thinking hard! I see now the horse does indeed have liver

(stagnation or rising yang) and spleen problems, and how making the

liver

worse could have set the stomach off, so maybe he will suggest

formulae to

address these when there is Yin deficiency anyway - seems to be pretty

obvious as a potential reason for the remedies not being right for

him. He

was pretty loopy on the Ayurvedic this morning, so I think there is

room for

improvement still.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

> 1. Kidney Yin deficiency can lead to hyperactive heart fire

> or `deficiency fire' as it is known. This is because the Kidney-

> Bladder system has a natural inhibitory link to the Heart-Small

> Intestine system but when Yin/Yang get separated in the Kidney, not

> enough Yin goes up to the Heart with the Yang so the inhibition is

> incomplete and dysfunctional. This manifests as irregular heart beat,

> palpitations and insomnia. The corresponding emotion is lack of

> happiness or despondency.

 

I have never seen tongue changes in a horse really - never looked for them

of course! No heartbeat irregularity ever noticed, horses don't sleep much

so that's no help.The mare was starting to look a bit despondant in the last

year or so of her life - the young horse generally gets angry rather than

sad, or is too wiped out to show any emotion in his very bad times. I can't

say I've ever seen him truly despondant, except maybe when his mum died.

Palpitations are difficult in a horse - give them a good fright and you can

actually hear their hearts thump and see the blood pulsing. But the mare did

use to get 'the thumps' 3 hrs post grazing (sugar withdrawl) I think that

was hypolglycemia. But just to confuse matter that was only when she had a

malignant thyroid cancer! We took that out and she went straight back to the

old pattern.

 

But she had amazing heart-lung capacity in her younger days, real stamina.

Never noticed palpitations in the young one - he gets rapid shallow

breathing though.

 

 

> 2. Kidney Yin deficiency can also lead to reverse restriction of the

> Spleen-Stomach system. This is another dysfunctional effect arising

> out of Kidney Yin/Yang separation and imbalance and may occur at the

> same time as deficiency heart fire (different time of day though).

> Reverse restriction of the spleen by excessive Kidney Yang can lead

> to digestive problems, diarrhea or vomiting, weakness in the legs,

> back pain. The tongue may be pale with a sticky coating. The

> characteristic emotional tone is pensiveness which will make the

> Heart related despondency worse.

 

The young one does show pensiveness related to mild fear issues - if there

is no pressure on him he will freeze, sometimes actually getting 'stuck'

like he just cannot make up his mind what to do. That had a lot to do with

low blood sugar, I think caused by the functional hypothyroidism - so I

guess that would be spleen? It was all improved by the thyroxine at first,

but it was not an answer because increasing the dose lowered his levels.

 

I forgot to mention - the mare certainly DID have lumber back problems and a

progressive weakening of the hind legs. And when she first 'crashed' the

vets could not find anything but a kidney tonic seemed to help. But that had

Kava in - which would make anyone feel better by all accounts! She would

have got diarrhoea on a 'normal' diet - got a bit loose 'til I learned how

to manage to avoid it - control sugar and starch. The young one is so strong

it may not show - but he does hold his tension somethere behind the saddle.

 

> 3. Another problem your horse may not be able to tell you about is

> tinnitus which arises out of Kidney Yin deficiency and which will

> exacerbate the negative emotions churned up by Heart and Spleen

> disorder. Kidney Yin deficiency itself will have a characteristic

> emotional tone of fearfulness and this is all quite consistent with

> your account below.

 

That's what I thought - it is such a strong feature, and it's definately a

'pathalogical fear' not a training issue or anything. I'm sure they'd shake

their heads or something if they had tinnitus, or rub their ears perhaps.

They never showed any reluctance to have them touched/rubbed either, and

many horses do.

>

> 4. Kidney Yin deficiency and Yang excess can also lead to inadequate

> promotion of the Liver-Gall Bladder system. This may manifest as

> inflammation - eye problems or tendonitis. The characteristic emotion

> is anger.

 

No tendonitis, but they could do no real work to stress their tendons.

Ligament problems yes, and the geldings joints seem to show low grade strain

easy, so that could be weak ligaments.

 

The mare used to get conjunctivitis in the summer quite regularly, the

gelding has narrow/ blocked nasolacrimal ducts so tends to weep from the

eyes. You don't see it in summer, but it is either worse or evapourates less

in winter because then you do find salt residue building up under the eye.

 

> I haven't the faintest idea how human to horse doses relate but I

> would be very interested to find out. I'm sending this off to a good

> friend of mine who is a rancher and who knows thoroughbreds. Maybe he

> can add something too.

 

Cool, thanks for the input. Doses are low apparently.

 

Jackie