Hysterectomy, castration and hormones

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Hi Attilio, Sam & Jackie

 

Attilio wrote:

> [iMO] if a woman has a hysterectomy, she will have less Tian Gui

> ... its western equivalent being hormones. So the same may well

> apply to males. Any comments anyone?

 

I am no expert in behavioral anomalies in animals, and can hazard

only general comments on Jackie's queries.

 

1. Regardless of their initial cause(s), most behavioral problems are

responses to compensate for " something missing " . For example:

lack of love, affection, company etc (boredom) may trigger self-

licking/lick-granuloma; lack of ease, as in visceral pain may trigger

windsucking/cribbing; etc. Lack of colour/visual stimulation and

jungle smells/sounds may trigger feather-picking/self-mutilation in

captive jungle-birds.

 

Behavioral expressions of pseudopregnancy relate to hormonal

imbalance. Sexual isolation/frustration can trigger masturbation in

males; jealousy or insecurity can trigger soiling/house damage in

dogs/cats; etc;

 

These learned compensatory responses become deep-seated and

may persist long after their initial trigger(s) have disappeared. Deep-

seated compensatory behavior is very difficult to treat successfully

once the triggers have disappeared.

 

2. IMO, apart from Channel-, Emotional- and other- relationships,

KI [Water] relates primarily to KI, adrenal, ovary, testis and their

functions. By definition, surgical removal of testis/ovary

automatically " blocks " KI energetic functions and creates a

Deficiency (Xu) in KI.

 

However, as Are Thoresen teaches, EVERY CELL in the body,

especially of the less differentiated cells, has some capacity to

reproduce the functions of any other cell. So, the body can function

(maybe not to 100%) even after removal of non-essential organs.

 

3. The precise sites CUT in surgery can be critical in causing

Channel Blocks. Tender SCARS on main Channels can cause

dysfunction in at least THREE Channels. For example, a tender

scar on BL Channel can cause signs/symptoms in BL, but also in

its Qi Mother (SI) and Qi Son (KI) Channel-Organ Systems.

 

4. IMO, male castration can influence KI directly, and may also

influence LV and SP, as those Channels also relate to the inguinal

area/scrotum.

 

5. When treating problems in castrated males, I would examine for

tenderness in/near the incision areas and treat that with local

laser/needles/TENS, as in Trigger Point/Neural Therapy. I would

also act to Boost KI (KI07, BL23, GB25).

 

Herbally, agents to Boost KI, and Move Qi-Xue Stasis may help. If

there are scar swellings or swelling of the severed spermatic cord

stumps, agents to Reduce Swelling/Move Phlegm may help.

 

In the end, one must weigh up all the evidence and aim to treat

(with acupuncture and/or herbs) the Roots (basic causes) as well

as the Branches (manifestations).

 

Homeopathically, I would try Hypericum and Arnica.

 

Jackie, as I have no personal experience of your type of case, I can

only hazard guesses. The " resident vet " is stumped; sorry!

However, I agree with Attilio and Sam: IMO, the case suggests KI

deficiency as a prime root and, IMO, the scrotum/cord stumps are

also " crying out " for help.

 

But if the behaviour is deep-seated, it may be too late to expect

dramatic improvement at this stage.

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

WWW :

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

[Guest guest]

>>>2. IMO, apart from Channel-, Emotional- and other- relationships,

KI [Water] relates primarily to KI, adrenal, ovary, testis and their

functions. By definition, surgical removal of testis/ovary

automatically " blocks " KI energetic functions and creates a

>>Deficiency (Xu) in KI.

 

Have you been able to separate these into yin, yang and jing?

 

>>4. IMO, male castration can influence KI directly, and may also

influence LV and SP, as those Channels also relate to the inguinal

>>area/scrotum.

 

That's interesting.

 

>However, I agree with Attilio and Sam: IMO, the case suggests KI

>deficiency as a prime root

 

Yes, that is what I was led to believe by the consultant in CA who works

with horses and reviewed his entire case history. I am somewhat concerned

than those on the ground did not feel it to be the case, though they did see

him in winter, when he is fine.

 

>and, IMO, the scrotum/cord stumps are

>also " crying out " for help.

 

In what way - he is 12 now??

 

>>But if the behaviour is deep-seated, it may be too late to expect

dramatic improvement at this stage.

 

His behaviour per se is of virtually no issue to me now, it has all been

addressed by management, diet and training. He just has to be handled

carefully and skillfully, as one would a stallion.

 

It is easily manageable unless he feels unwell, and when he feels well,

there are no behavioural 'issues' at all - he is a joy to be around.

 

His behaviour is his only way of communicating - if he has a behavioural

issue, it is because he has a physiological one that I need to address.

 

Jackie

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

WWW :

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

 

For practitioners, students and those interested in TCM.

 

Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, religious, spam

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[Guest guest]

yes i agree that surgical removal of any internal

organs will cause change in energic levels.

but castration will cause more emotional damage & lead

to possibly increased levels of performance due

totestesterone levels increasing not because of body

mechanisms. but more due top lack of ability to

perform sexual intercourse & thus lead to increased

jing chi.

problems should be related to this energic chamges

*emotional issues in humans

anand

 

 

 

--- jackie <Jackie wrote: >

>

> >>>2. IMO, apart from Channel-, Emotional- and

> other- relationships,

> KI [Water] relates primarily to KI, adrenal, ovary,

> testis and their

> functions. By definition, surgical removal of

> testis/ovary

> automatically " blocks " KI energetic functions and

> creates a

> >>Deficiency (Xu) in KI.

>

> Have you been able to separate these into yin, yang

> and jing?

>

> >>4. IMO, male castration can influence KI directly,

> and may also

> influence LV and SP, as those Channels also relate

> to the inguinal

> >>area/scrotum.

>

> That's interesting.

>

> >However, I agree with Attilio and Sam: IMO, the

> case suggests KI

> >deficiency as a prime root

>

> Yes, that is what I was led to believe by the

> consultant in CA who works

> with horses and reviewed his entire case history. I

> am somewhat concerned

> than those on the ground did not feel it to be the

> case, though they did see

> him in winter, when he is fine.

>

> >and, IMO, the scrotum/cord stumps are

> >also " crying out " for help.

>

> In what way - he is 12 now??

>

> >>But if the behaviour is deep-seated, it may be too

> late to expect

> dramatic improvement at this stage.

>

> His behaviour per se is of virtually no issue to me

> now, it has all been

> addressed by management, diet and training. He just

> has to be handled

> carefully and skillfully, as one would a stallion.

>

> It is easily manageable unless he feels unwell, and

> when he feels well,

> there are no behavioural 'issues' at all - he is a

> joy to be around.

>

> His behaviour is his only way of communicating - if

> he has a behavioural

> issue, it is because he has a physiological one that

> I need to address.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> Best regards,

>

>

> WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount

> Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

> WWW :

> Email: <

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:

> 0]

>

> HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> WWW :

> http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

> Email: <

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:

> 0]

>

>

> For practitioners, students and those interested in

> TCM.

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any

> commerical, religious, spam

> messages or flame another member.

>

> If you want to change the way you receive email

> message, i.e. individually,

> daily digest or none, then visit the groups'

> homepage:

>

Chinese Medicine/

> Click 'edit my

> membership' on the right hand side and adjust

> accordingly.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Anand,

 

Could you clarify this statement please, if I haven't covered it below:

 

but castration will cause more emotional damage & lead

to possibly increased levels of performance due

totestesterone levels increasing not because of body

mechanisms. but more due top lack of ability to

perform sexual intercourse & thus lead to increased

jing chi.

 

I agree that castration will cause emotional problems, and may lead to a

temporary increase in Jing Qi. I'd call this virtual Jing Qi just in the

same way you get Heart Fire and Insomnia with Ki Yin Deficiency. Jing Qi

can last for about a year in a young sexually mature male but as the

'victim' increases in age the tolerance to - and reaction against -

castration becomes less robust.

 

For males castrated before the age of puberty it may even be possible for

them to achieve some sexual maturation as the adrenal glands produce

testosterone which may be recruited for this purpose. Some eunuchs (and

geldings) have been known to be sexually active. In normal males otherwise

castrated before sexual maturation, there may be adaptive processes which

enable them to cope with a massivly decreased level of male hormone and 'get

through life'. I return to this point later.

 

However, for a sexually mature male, physical castration will cause any

increase in Jing Qi to eventually subside and the essential deficient nature

of the condition will manifest in a number of ways.

 

Testosterone levels will fall from the normal male reference 9.0 - 35.0

ng/ml to around 0.3 -0.5 ng/ml within 24 hours of physical castration. The

latter residual amount being supplied by the adrenal glands which in an

adult male will not be able to produce much more despite the adaptive

processes that may occur in younger males who are castrated. At castrate

testosterone levels in the adult male, sexual activity will decrease and

finally cease as described above. Within months the penis shrinks and

erection is virtually impossible: libido (desire) is also practically

nonexistant.

 

Along with the sexual symptoms of castration in the male there are a host of

other physical symptoms that will amplify the inherent deficiency state(s)

of the individual. However, almost universal is the decrease in bone mineral

resorption and consequent loss in bone density and increased risk of

fracture to the wrist , femur and lumbar spine. A similar pattern holds for

many other anabolic processes including deterioration of muscles mass,

increase in body fat index, reduction in immune status and deterioration in

cognitive function.

 

Many cytotoxic agents have a profoundly suppressive effect on both the

gonads and the adrenals. Patients on chemotherapy for cancer often

experience the symptoms described above. Prophylaxis is not commonly

provided by oncology consultants because they are ignorant of the severity

of the side effects of the treatments - difficult to believe as it might be

this is true! How many patiets die from iatrogenic causes rather than the

primary diagnostic condition is unknown but the numbers are probably quite

substantial. The media have recently touched on the problem of iatrogenic

deaths in US hospitals believed to be exceeded only by heart disease and

cancer. A host of mysterious complaints including compressed spine

(consequent immobility), lowered metabolic rate, febrility, insomnia,

palpitations and cardiac arrythmias may be falsly attributed to the disease

rather than the treatment.

 

Contrast the castrated mature male to the genuine eunuch: In the ageing

eunuch an increase in adipose fat mass is characteristic. This may be due to

an adaptive mechanism whereby aromatase in fat tissue is converting weakly

anabolic testosterone into the far more anabolically potent estrogen

17-beta-estradiol. Thus a eunuch may remain physically active into old age

(as are post-menopausal momen) and not suffer the symptoms of testosterone

deficiency of a castrated male. Perhaps this is what Anand was referring to

by Jing Qi as it may have a male or a female characteristic ?

 

Thanks for the opportunity to broaden out this discussion Attilio - looking

forward to your response Anand.

 

Cheers,

 

Sammy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

anand bapat [acubapat]

29 August 2003 09:43

Chinese Medicine

Re: Hysterectomy, castration and hormones

 

 

yes i agree that surgical removal of any internal

organs will cause change in energic levels.

but castration will cause more emotional damage & lead

to possibly increased levels of performance due

totestesterone levels increasing not because of body

mechanisms. but more due top lack of ability to

perform sexual intercourse & thus lead to increased

jing chi.

problems should be related to this energic chamges

*emotional issues in humans

anand

 

 

 

--- jackie <Jackie wrote: >

>

> >>>2. IMO, apart from Channel-, Emotional- and

> other- relationships,

> KI [Water] relates primarily to KI, adrenal, ovary,

> testis and their

> functions. By definition, surgical removal of

> testis/ovary

> automatically " blocks " KI energetic functions and

> creates a

> >>Deficiency (Xu) in KI.

>

> Have you been able to separate these into yin, yang

> and jing?

>

> >>4. IMO, male castration can influence KI directly,

> and may also

> influence LV and SP, as those Channels also relate

> to the inguinal

> >>area/scrotum.

>

> That's interesting.

>

> >However, I agree with Attilio and Sam: IMO, the

> case suggests KI

> >deficiency as a prime root

>

> Yes, that is what I was led to believe by the

> consultant in CA who works

> with horses and reviewed his entire case history. I

> am somewhat concerned

> than those on the ground did not feel it to be the

> case, though they did see

> him in winter, when he is fine.

>

> >and, IMO, the scrotum/cord stumps are

> >also " crying out " for help.

>

> In what way - he is 12 now??

>

> >>But if the behaviour is deep-seated, it may be too

> late to expect

> dramatic improvement at this stage.

>

> His behaviour per se is of virtually no issue to me

> now, it has all been

> addressed by management, diet and training. He just

> has to be handled

> carefully and skillfully, as one would a stallion.

>

> It is easily manageable unless he feels unwell, and

> when he feels well,

> there are no behavioural 'issues' at all - he is a

> joy to be around.

>

> His behaviour is his only way of communicating - if

> he has a behavioural

> issue, it is because he has a physiological one that

> I need to address.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> Best regards,

>

>

> WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount

> Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

> WWW :

> Email: <

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:

> 0]

>

> HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> WWW :

> http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

> Email: <

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:

> 0]

>

>

> For practitioners, students and those interested in

> TCM.

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any

> commerical, religious, spam

> messages or flame another member.

>

> If you want to change the way you receive email

> message, i.e. individually,

> daily digest or none, then visit the groups'

> homepage:

>

Chinese Medicine/

> Click 'edit my

> membership' on the right hand side and adjust

> accordingly.

>

>

[Guest guest]

sorry folks & sammy,

i was completely off track.

i assumed wrongly that castration was cutting off the

penis only. hence the comment.

your data suggests exactly waht the body will do after

the testicles are removed.

thanks for the info.

anand

 

 

 

--- ga.bates wrote: > Anand,

>

> Could you clarify this statement please, if I

> haven't covered it below:

>

> but castration will cause more emotional damage &

> lead

> to possibly increased levels of performance due

> totestesterone levels increasing not because of body

> mechanisms. but more due top lack of ability to

> perform sexual intercourse & thus lead to increased

> jing chi.

>

> I agree that castration will cause emotional

> problems, and may lead to a

> temporary increase in Jing Qi. I'd call this virtual

> Jing Qi just in the

> same way you get Heart Fire and Insomnia with Ki Yin

> Deficiency. Jing Qi

> can last for about a year in a young sexually mature

> male but as the

> 'victim' increases in age the tolerance to - and

> reaction against -

> castration becomes less robust.

>

> For males castrated before the age of puberty it may

> even be possible for

> them to achieve some sexual maturation as the

> adrenal glands produce

> testosterone which may be recruited for this

> purpose. Some eunuchs (and

> geldings) have been known to be sexually active. In

> normal males otherwise

> castrated before sexual maturation, there may be

> adaptive processes which

> enable them to cope with a massivly decreased level

> of male hormone and 'get

> through life'. I return to this point later.

>

> However, for a sexually mature male, physical

> castration will cause any

> increase in Jing Qi to eventually subside and the

> essential deficient nature

> of the condition will manifest in a number of ways.

>

> Testosterone levels will fall from the normal male

> reference 9.0 - 35.0

> ng/ml to around 0.3 -0.5 ng/ml within 24 hours of

> physical castration. The

> latter residual amount being supplied by the adrenal

> glands which in an

> adult male will not be able to produce much more

> despite the adaptive

> processes that may occur in younger males who are

> castrated. At castrate

> testosterone levels in the adult male, sexual

> activity will decrease and

> finally cease as described above. Within months the

> penis shrinks and

> erection is virtually impossible: libido (desire) is

> also practically

> nonexistant.

>

> Along with the sexual symptoms of castration in the

> male there are a host of

> other physical symptoms that will amplify the

> inherent deficiency state(s)

> of the individual. However, almost universal is the

> decrease in bone mineral

> resorption and consequent loss in bone density and

> increased risk of

> fracture to the wrist , femur and lumbar spine. A

> similar pattern holds for

> many other anabolic processes including

> deterioration of muscles mass,

> increase in body fat index, reduction in immune

> status and deterioration in

> cognitive function.

>

> Many cytotoxic agents have a profoundly suppressive

> effect on both the

> gonads and the adrenals. Patients on chemotherapy

> for cancer often

> experience the symptoms described above. Prophylaxis

> is not commonly

> provided by oncology consultants because they are

> ignorant of the severity

> of the side effects of the treatments - difficult to

> believe as it might be

> this is true! How many patiets die from iatrogenic

> causes rather than the

> primary diagnostic condition is unknown but the

> numbers are probably quite

> substantial. The media have recently touched on the

> problem of iatrogenic

> deaths in US hospitals believed to be exceeded only

> by heart disease and

> cancer. A host of mysterious complaints including

> compressed spine

> (consequent immobility), lowered metabolic rate,

> febrility, insomnia,

> palpitations and cardiac arrythmias may be falsly

> attributed to the disease

> rather than the treatment.

>

> Contrast the castrated mature male to the genuine

> eunuch: In the ageing

> eunuch an increase in adipose fat mass is

> characteristic. This may be due to

> an adaptive mechanism whereby aromatase in fat

> tissue is converting weakly

> anabolic testosterone into the far more anabolically

> potent estrogen

> 17-beta-estradiol. Thus a eunuch may remain

> physically active into old age

> (as are post-menopausal momen) and not suffer the

> symptoms of testosterone

> deficiency of a castrated male. Perhaps this is what

> Anand was referring to

> by Jing Qi as it may have a male or a female

> characteristic ?

>

> Thanks for the opportunity to broaden out this

> discussion Attilio - looking

> forward to your response Anand.

>

> Cheers,

>

> Sammy.

> anand bapat [acubapat]

> 29 August 2003 09:43

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Hysterectomy, castration and

> hormones

>

>

> yes i agree that surgical removal of any internal

> organs will cause change in energic levels.

> but castration will cause more emotional damage &

> lead

> to possibly increased levels of performance due

> totestesterone levels increasing not because of

> body

> mechanisms. but more due top lack of ability to

> perform sexual intercourse & thus lead to

> increased

> jing chi.

> problems should be related to this energic chamges

> *emotional issues in humans

> anand

>

>

>

> --- jackie <Jackie wrote: >

> >

> > >>>2. IMO, apart from Channel-, Emotional- and

> > other- relationships,

> > KI [Water] relates primarily to KI, adrenal,

> ovary,

> > testis and their

> > functions. By definition, surgical removal of

> > testis/ovary

> > automatically " blocks " KI energetic functions

> and

> > creates a

> > >>Deficiency (Xu) in KI.

> >

> > Have you been able to separate these into yin,

> yang

> > and jing?

> >

> > >>4. IMO, male castration can influence KI

> directly,

> > and may also

> > influence LV and SP, as those Channels also

> relate

> > to the inguinal

> > >>area/scrotum.

> >

> > That's interesting.

> >

> > >However, I agree with Attilio and Sam: IMO, the

> > case suggests KI

> > >deficiency as a prime root

> >

> > Yes, that is what I was led to believe by the

> > consultant in CA who works

> > with horses and reviewed his entire case

> history. I

> > am somewhat concerned

> > than those on the ground did not feel it to be

> the

> > case, though they did see

> > him in winter, when he is fine.

> >

> > >and, IMO, the scrotum/cord stumps are

> > >also " crying out " for help.

> >

> > In what way - he is 12 now??

> >

> > >>But if the behaviour is deep-seated, it may be

> too

> > late to expect

> > dramatic improvement at this stage.

> >

> > His behaviour per se is of virtually no issue to

> me

> > now, it has all been

> > addressed by management, diet and training. He

> just

> > has to be handled

> > carefully and skillfully, as one would a

> stallion.

> >

> > It is easily manageable unless he feels unwell,

> and

> > when he feels well,

> > there are no behavioural 'issues' at all - he is

> a

> > joy to be around.

> >

> > His behaviour is his only way of communicating -

> if

> > he has a behavioural

> > issue, it is because he has a physiological one

> that

> > I need to address.

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> >

> > WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit,

> Sandymount

> > Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

> > WWW :

> > Email: <

> > Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:

> > 0]

> >

> > HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> > WWW :

> > http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

> > Email: <

> > Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:

> > 0]

> >

> >

> > For practitioners, students and those interested

> in

> > TCM.

> >

> > Membership requires that you do not post any

> > commerical, religious, spam

> > messages or flame another member.

> >

> > If you want to change the way you receive email

> > message, i.e. individually,

> > daily digest or none, then visit the groups'

> > homepage:

> >

>

>

Chinese Medicine/

> > Click 'edit my

> > membership' on the right hand side and adjust

> > accordingly.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Not so off track Anand - sadly penile castration does occur for no food

reason as this recent news indicates:

 

DALLAS , TEXAS - An out-of-court-settlement has been reached in the case of

a North Texas man who woke up from bladder surgery only to find that doctors

had amputated his penis, lawyers said yesterday. Terms of the

out-of-court-settlement were not disclosed , but Hershell Ralls, 67, had

been seeking over 5 million in a civil suit he filed in Wichita Falls,

Texas, against the two doctors who removed his penis (REUTERS)

 

So called 'complete castration' or removal of all external male genitalia is

practiced in very closed society even today for perverse rituals or

obsessive social control reasons. The attrition rate is exceedingly high

with boys dying of blood poisoning or simply bleeding to death. Slaves who

survive this treatment and grow into mature eunuchs are prized 'inner hareem

guards'.

 

Sammy.

 

 

 

anand bapat [acubapat]

31 August 2003 01:24

Chinese Medicine

RE: Hysterectomy, castration and hormones

 

 

sorry folks & sammy,

i was completely off track.

i assumed wrongly that castration was cutting off the

penis only. hence the comment.

your data suggests exactly waht the body will do after

the testicles are removed.

thanks for the info.

anand

 

 

 

--- ga.bates wrote: > Anand,

>

> Could you clarify this statement please, if I

> haven't covered it below:

>

> but castration will cause more emotional damage &

> lead

> to possibly increased levels of performance due

> totestesterone levels increasing not because of body

> mechanisms. but more due top lack of ability to

> perform sexual intercourse & thus lead to increased

> jing chi.

>

> I agree that castration will cause emotional

> problems, and may lead to a

> temporary increase in Jing Qi. I'd call this virtual

> Jing Qi just in the

> same way you get Heart Fire and Insomnia with Ki Yin

> Deficiency. Jing Qi

> can last for about a year in a young sexually mature

> male but as the

> 'victim' increases in age the tolerance to - and

> reaction against -

> castration becomes less robust.

>

> For males castrated before the age of puberty it may

> even be possible for

> them to achieve some sexual maturation as the

> adrenal glands produce

> testosterone which may be recruited for this

> purpose. Some eunuchs (and

> geldings) have been known to be sexually active. In

> normal males otherwise

> castrated before sexual maturation, there may be

> adaptive processes which

> enable them to cope with a massivly decreased level

> of male hormone and 'get

> through life'. I return to this point later.

>

> However, for a sexually mature male, physical

> castration will cause any

> increase in Jing Qi to eventually subside and the

> essential deficient nature

> of the condition will manifest in a number of ways.

>

> Testosterone levels will fall from the normal male

> reference 9.0 - 35.0

> ng/ml to around 0.3 -0.5 ng/ml within 24 hours of

> physical castration. The

> latter residual amount being supplied by the adrenal

> glands which in an

> adult male will not be able to produce much more

> despite the adaptive

> processes that may occur in younger males who are

> castrated. At castrate

> testosterone levels in the adult male, sexual

> activity will decrease and

> finally cease as described above. Within months the

> penis shrinks and

> erection is virtually impossible: libido (desire) is

> also practically

> nonexistant.

>

> Along with the sexual symptoms of castration in the

> male there are a host of

> other physical symptoms that will amplify the

> inherent deficiency state(s)

> of the individual. However, almost universal is the

> decrease in bone mineral

> resorption and consequent loss in bone density and

> increased risk of

> fracture to the wrist , femur and lumbar spine. A

> similar pattern holds for

> many other anabolic processes including

> deterioration of muscles mass,

> increase in body fat index, reduction in immune

> status and deterioration in

> cognitive function.

>

> Many cytotoxic agents have a profoundly suppressive

> effect on both the

> gonads and the adrenals. Patients on chemotherapy

> for cancer often

> experience the symptoms described above. Prophylaxis

> is not commonly

> provided by oncology consultants because they are

> ignorant of the severity

> of the side effects of the treatments - difficult to

> believe as it might be

> this is true! How many patiets die from iatrogenic

> causes rather than the

> primary diagnostic condition is unknown but the

> numbers are probably quite

> substantial. The media have recently touched on the

> problem of iatrogenic

> deaths in US hospitals believed to be exceeded only

> by heart disease and

> cancer. A host of mysterious complaints including

> compressed spine

> (consequent immobility), lowered metabolic rate,

> febrility, insomnia,

> palpitations and cardiac arrythmias may be falsly

> attributed to the disease

> rather than the treatment.

>

> Contrast the castrated mature male to the genuine

> eunuch: In the ageing

> eunuch an increase in adipose fat mass is

> characteristic. This may be due to

> an adaptive mechanism whereby aromatase in fat

> tissue is converting weakly

> anabolic testosterone into the far more anabolically

> potent estrogen

> 17-beta-estradiol. Thus a eunuch may remain

> physically active into old age

> (as are post-menopausal momen) and not suffer the

> symptoms of testosterone

> deficiency of a castrated male. Perhaps this is what

> Anand was referring to

> by Jing Qi as it may have a male or a female

> characteristic ?

>

> Thanks for the opportunity to broaden out this

> discussion Attilio - looking

> forward to your response Anand.

>

> Cheers,

>

> Sammy.

> anand bapat [acubapat]

> 29 August 2003 09:43

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Hysterectomy, castration and

> hormones

>

>

> yes i agree that surgical removal of any internal

> organs will cause change in energic levels.

> but castration will cause more emotional damage &

> lead

> to possibly increased levels of performance due

> totestesterone levels increasing not because of

> body

> mechanisms. but more due top lack of ability to

> perform sexual intercourse & thus lead to

> increased

> jing chi.

> problems should be related to this energic chamges

> *emotional issues in humans

> anand

>

>

>

> --- jackie <Jackie wrote: >

> >

> > >>>2. IMO, apart from Channel-, Emotional- and

> > other- relationships,

> > KI [Water] relates primarily to KI, adrenal,

> ovary,

> > testis and their

> > functions. By definition, surgical removal of

> > testis/ovary

> > automatically " blocks " KI energetic functions

> and

> > creates a

> > >>Deficiency (Xu) in KI.

> >

> > Have you been able to separate these into yin,

> yang

> > and jing?

> >

> > >>4. IMO, male castration can influence KI

> directly,

> > and may also

> > influence LV and SP, as those Channels also

> relate

> > to the inguinal

> > >>area/scrotum.

> >

> > That's interesting.

> >

> > >However, I agree with Attilio and Sam: IMO, the

> > case suggests KI

> > >deficiency as a prime root

> >

> > Yes, that is what I was led to believe by the

> > consultant in CA who works

> > with horses and reviewed his entire case

> history. I

> > am somewhat concerned

> > than those on the ground did not feel it to be

> the

> > case, though they did see

> > him in winter, when he is fine.

> >

> > >and, IMO, the scrotum/cord stumps are

> > >also " crying out " for help.

> >

> > In what way - he is 12 now??

> >

> > >>But if the behaviour is deep-seated, it may be

> too

> > late to expect

> > dramatic improvement at this stage.

> >

> > His behaviour per se is of virtually no issue to

> me

> > now, it has all been

> > addressed by management, diet and training. He

> just

> > has to be handled

> > carefully and skillfully, as one would a

> stallion.

> >

> > It is easily manageable unless he feels unwell,

> and

> > when he feels well,

> > there are no behavioural 'issues' at all - he is

> a

> > joy to be around.

> >

> > His behaviour is his only way of communicating -

> if

> > he has a behavioural

> > issue, it is because he has a physiological one

> that

> > I need to address.

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> >

> > WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit,

> Sandymount

> > Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

> > WWW :

> > Email: <

> > Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:

> > 0]

> >

> > HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> > WWW :

> > http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

> > Email: <

> > Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:

> > 0]

> >

> >

> > For practitioners, students and those interested

> in

> > TCM.

> >

> > Membership requires that you do not post any

> > commerical, religious, spam

> > messages or flame another member.

> >

> > If you want to change the way you receive email

> > message, i.e. individually,

> > daily digest or none, then visit the groups'

> > homepage:

> >

>

>

Chinese Medicine/

> > Click 'edit my

> > membership' on the right hand side and adjust

> > accordingly.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Anand

 

> ... castration will cause more emotional damage & lead to possibly

> increased levels of performance due to testesterone levels

> increasing not because of body mechanisms but more due top lack of

> ability to perform sexual intercourse & thus lead to increased jing

> chi. anand

 

Anand, I would expect castration to DECREASE (not increase)

testosterone and Jingqi. It is well proven that INTACT male animals

grow faster than castrates - they have more Jingqi.

 

Comments from others?

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

WWW :

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

[Guest guest]

Phil: In their textbook on Trigger Points, Travell & Simons noted

that a single active (sensitive/painful) Trigger Point (such as can lie

in severed tissue) can maintain pain, autonomic, proprioceptive or

other DysFx for DECADES. Treating such sensitive areas (if they

exist on the scrotum/cord/stumps) could have dramatic effects if

they are involved in the horse's DysFx.

 

 

How would you know? And in what way would you treat?

 

Thinking about it he always greatly appreciates sheath cleaning, but does

not like the back of his sheath being wiped much. He does produce an

exceptional amount of smegma.

 

Thanks

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Phil: In their textbook on Trigger Points, Travell & Simons noted

that a single active (sensitive/painful) Trigger Point (such as can lie

in severed tissue) can maintain pain, autonomic, proprioceptive or

other DysFx for DECADES. Treating such sensitive areas (if they

exist on the scrotum/cord/stumps) could have dramatic effects if

they are involved in the horse's DysFx.

 

>>>>Unfortunately in real life TP are usually secondary to other dysfunctions

and almost never solve problems on their own. The cause must be addressed

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Hi Jackie

 

> Phil: In their textbook on Trigger Points, Travell & Simons noted that

> a single active (sensitive/painful) Trigger Point (such as can lie in

> severed tissue) can maintain pain, autonomic, proprioceptive or other

> DysFx for DECADES. Treating such sensitive areas (if they exist on the

> scrotum/cord/stumps) could have dramatic effects if they are involved

> in the horse's DysFx.

 

 

> Jackie: How would you know?

 

1. By physical palpation of the incision site and cord stumps (if

palpable), plus palpation of the testis reflex areas (BL23, GB25).

Local incision sensitivity indicates the need for local treatment.

 

or

 

2. By Dowsing (pendulum, V-Stick, AK (Applied Kinasiology), VAS-

Pulse, or Surrogate Pulse, while concentrating on, or pointing to,

the incision wounds.

 

> Jackie: And in what way would you treat?

 

If physical exam or dowsing indicates sensitivity at the local

incision (scar) areas, the best/safest Tx (in horses) is probably low-

power laser use on the sensitive areas.

 

Add AP at related points - such as: GV01, SP06, GB25, BL23,

BL17, Animal Baihui (lumbosacral space).

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

WWW :

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]