Looming crises and short-sided thinking

[Guest guest]

Ken wrote:

 

>What the western world needs far above and

>beyond the need of needles and herbs is

>the ability to think more clearly about the

>strategies and tactics that are developed

>and adopted to deal with the very real

>challenges of survival.

 

 

Hi Ken!

 

Your comments are very well stated, and certainly the above

statement points quite clearly to the problem, not just in this

instance, but with much of the Western approach to problem

solving, medical and otherwise!

 

IMHO, one of the key flaws in Western Medicine through

past decades has been immediacy! It is the urgency in finding

a solution that works NOW, without having the foresight and

consideration as to the long term effects and outcomes, that

lead to our short-term successes, but inevitable failures. It is

a major flaw in Western thought that needs to be overcome

(and I commend you on your efforts in this area). The " we'll

just deal with that later, " attitude has got to change.

 

I think to solve problems such as this, it is imperative for us

to use a clear mind when looking for solutions. In a crisis, it

is to a great detriment to rush into finding the first 'acceptable'

solution, without weighing the long-term consequences. If this

problem is to be overcome, I think good Eastern thinking could

be of a great benefit. Somehow I have a strong feeling that

many of our doctors and researchers could benefit from a little

enlightening Taoist meditation!

 

I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on Chinese

medical thought, Ken.

 

Andrea

[Guest guest]

I think to solve problems such as this, it is imperative for us

to use a clear mind when looking for solutions. In a crisis, it

is to a great detriment to rush into finding the first 'acceptable'

solution, without weighing the long-term consequences. If this

problem is to be overcome, I think good Eastern thinking could

be of a great benefit. Somehow I have a strong feeling that

many of our doctors and researchers could benefit from a little

enlightening Taoist meditation!

>>>>>I think as far as antibiotics we need to remember that much of the problem

is not WM but the business of doing medicine. It has been known for many years

that antibiotics are prescribed way too often and inappropriately. It has also

been known that much of this practice is patient driven, i.e. expectation to be

treated and physicians pleasing patients. The warning against the practice are

many decades old. In that regard we could say the same about CM. For example,

the use of yin qiao in the treatment of colds is way too prevalent. First, most

of the time a cold will resolve in a few days regardless of treatment and

therefore the wisdom of treatment is questionable. Second, way too many

practitioners use yin qiao in wind-cold, and now even using all these very cold

meds such ban lan gen (sorry for Cantonese) that at list from some CM theory can

result in lurking pathogens.

So the so-called urgency is found in CM as much as WM. It is people driven as

much a medicine driven.

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Magestic Illusion wrote:

 

>

> IMHO, one of the key flaws in Western Medicine through

> past decades has been immediacy! It is the urgency in finding

> a solution that works NOW, without having the foresight and

> consideration as to the long term effects and outcomes, that

> lead to our short-term successes, but inevitable failures.

 

 

 

Karen: To be fair, there's really nothing wrong with trying to find a

solution as soon as possible to, say, cancer in order to prevent

suffering. IMO the real problem is in not looking far enough ahead,

exploring all possible ramifications of something new. It may simply be

myth but it is said that the Iroquois nation (tribes of Native

Americans) would not act on anything without considering its impact on

the next *seven generations*. Now that's forward thinking and would

help tremendously to assure that we procede on the journey with

thoughtfulness and care.

Karen

[Guest guest]

Karen,

 

> Karen: To be fair, there's really nothing wrong with trying to find a

> solution as soon as possible to, say, cancer in order to prevent

> suffering. IMO the real problem is in not looking far enough ahead,

> exploring all possible ramifications of something new. It may simply be

> myth but it is said that the Iroquois nation (tribes of Native

> Americans) would not act on anything without considering its impact on

> the next *seven generations*. Now that's forward thinking and would

> help tremendously to assure that we procede on the journey with

> thoughtfulness and care.

> Karen

 

I think this is a very important point. It seems

to me that one of most durable threads that

provides the tension for so much of what holds

together generation after generationg that we

call Chinese culture is the notion of filial piety.

 

It breeds a concern for trans-generational matters

and establishes the perspective that the meaning

of our lives is not to be found entirely within that

span of time during which we are living them.

 

By being connected to both past and future,

members of Chinese civilization construct a

network of support and sustenance for a wide

range of existential concerns.

 

One of the more dynamic wave fronts currently

forming up is the confluence of this traditional

Chinese sene of family and the independent

spirit of individualism that thrives in the West,

particularly in the USA, where as Michael Moore

points out it rises all too frequently to a pathological

pitch.

 

But that's another story.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Alon wrote:

 

<<<<I think as far as antibiotics we need to remember that much of

the problem is not WM but the business of doing medicine. It has been

known for many years that antibiotics are prescribed way too often

and inappropriately.>>>

 

Points well made, and I agree. I was really referring more to the

thought process in developing these methods of treatment

(particularly concerning development of drugs), rather than in the

area of prescription, which I do think is relied up way to much,

universally. My thoughts were tied more to the " total kill " strategy

that Ken mentioned. I think its often a mistake to think total

eradication is the best solution. The most aggressive approach is

often not the best one.

 

Your points concerning inappropriate and over-prescription are right

on, and a problem with many types of medication. The same certainly

goes with pain killers. And, I definitely agree, these decisions are

often patient driven.

 

I was at Kaiser a couple of weeks ago with a friend. He was filling

out paperwork for temporary disability, and there was a woman in the

waiting room of the business office who was pitching a rather loud

fit. It seems her doctor was on vacation and she'd run out of

Vikoden, but was unable to refill her prescription because he

couldn't be reached. The other doctors refused to refill the

prescription. Why? Because, it seems she went through 120 pills in

just under 10 days!! And, apparently, this is what her doctor had

actually prescribed! She went on to explain (again loudly) that

since she had a " high tolerance, " he had to give her a much larger

does to manage the pain. I cringed! She was very agitated, and

clearly going through a bad case of withdrawal, for which she had to

be hospitalized! More drugs, to help her come off of the drugs!

That's the first time I'd ever seen a 75 year-old woman come so

unglued!

 

Aggressive drug treatment is not always the best solution. While

better sense to prescriptions is certainly needed, I think more

thought needs to go into developing the treatments from the start.

And, alternatives to both drug and invasive treatment should be

employed whenever appropriate. This is one area I think Chinese

medicine has a definite advantage. There is also a larger emphasis

placed on prevention, which is really where good medicine should

start. Preventative medicine is still a relatively new concept in

the West, and one that should continue to be promoted and developed.

 

 

Best,

 

Andrea

[Guest guest]

Alon,

 

It is people driven as much a medicine driven.

> Alon

>

 

Good point. And this recognition lies at the very

basis of Unschuld's reading of history. It's all

people driven. That's really all that's involved

in medicine.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Karen wrote:

 

<<<<To be fair, there's really nothing wrong with trying to find a

solution as soon as possible to, say, cancer in order to prevent

suffering. IMO the real problem is in not looking far enough ahead,

exploring all possible ramifications of something new.>>>

 

 

Hi Karen.

 

That was actually the point I was trying to make. That at times, the

most immediate " solution " is accepted without really researching the

long term effects and outcomes that solution may produce.

 

Thank you for helping to clarify my point. =o)

 

Best,

 

Andrea

[Guest guest]

I think you are correct, Alon. The problem remains, however, that the vast

overuse of

antibiotics not only in medicine but in animal husbandry has brought us to the

edge

of a great ecological and health crisis.

 

In clinic, it seems that too many of the patients I see are overprescribed

antibiotics

for even minor infections, and for sometimes several weeks.

 

As far as our colleagues in CM, there is no excuse for the knee-jerk reaction of

prescribing yin qiao, zhong gan ling or gan mao ling symptomatically for

external

attacks. An accurate pattern differentiation must precede every prescription.

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

 

> >>>>>I think as far as antibiotics we need to remember that much of the

problem

is not WM but the business of doing medicine. It has been known for many years

that

antibiotics are prescribed way too often and inappropriately. It has also been

known

that much of this practice is patient driven, i.e. expectation to be treated and

physicians pleasing patients. The warning against the practice are many decades

old.

In that regard we could say the same about CM. For example, the use of yin qiao

in

the treatment of colds is way too prevalent. First, most of the time a cold will

resolve

in a few days regardless of treatment and therefore the wisdom of treatment is

questionable. Second, way too many practitioners use yin qiao in wind-cold, and

now

even using all these very cold meds such ban lan gen (sorry for Cantonese) that

at list

from some CM theory can result in lurking pathogens.

> So the so-called urgency is found in CM as much as WM. It is people driven as

much a medicine driven.

> Alon

>

>

[Guest guest]

In clinic, it seems that too many of the patients I see are overprescribed

antibiotics

for even minor infections, and for sometimes several weeks.

>>>And worse even when no clear infection is seen

alon