canine osteosarcoma / infection after AP + chemotherapy

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Hi Wendy,

 

[Original query - sender's name mislaid]:

> On acupuncture and chemotherapy - Last year in our community a

> woman died of septicemia who was being treated with both of these

> modalities and there was a big stir suggesting that the needling

> had been responsible (needle site infection.) Many local human

> acupuncturists now will not treat chemotherapy patients. A friend

> of mine who is dealing with breast cancer has to drive 90 minutes

> away to get acupuncture. I have never had a problem, but was

> curious if anyone else has.

 

Was the chemo given by i/v injection? Was there clinical evidence

of infection: (a) at the needled AP points, or (b) at the site of the

venepunctures (?) where the chemo was administered? I would

suspect that, if not expertly given, i/v chemo might cause chemical

phlebitis, and a more likely cause of the septicaemia than the AP

itself.

 

Wendy replied:

> Why not just require a CBC [complete blood count?] on the day of

> treatment?? If the WBC is OK, there should be no problem with

> acupuncture.

 

I am watching this thread with interest because I know of two

horses that developed sepsis around lumbo-sacral space ( " Animal

Baihui " ) after acupuncture there; both were euthanised within days.

 

I also know of a few horses that developed cellullitis on multiple

sites after AP, and a few that developed infection from the hoof to

the fetlock after Ting Point needling; all of those recovered

uneventfully in 9-14 days.

 

IMO, all of those horses were immunosuppressed before Tx. These

cases (and the chemo-AP septicaemia case, above), puzzle me.

There are many claims that AP is of great benefit in infections and

immunosuppressed cases. Also, AP and/or herbal medicine is

often used to SUPPORT chemotherapy/rediation therapy in cancer

Tx, and in situations where immunostimulation is indicated.

 

For example many herbs counter the adverse effects of

chemo/radiation (leukopaenia, immunosuppression, hairloss,

burns, anorexia, emesis, malaise, etc) while protecting HEALTHY

cells, esp in organs damaged by chemo (such as LV, KI, LU, HT).

 

Some herbs are said to have additional value when used along with

western cancer therapy; for example Danshen, Ezhu, Fenfangji,

Guijiu, Kushen, Maimendong, Qinghaosu (Artemisinin),

Shandougen & Yunzhi are said to enhance the cytotoxic effects of

the chemo/radiotherapy on CANCER cells, while protecting the

HEALTHY cells.

 

Any comments from other Listers?

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

[Guest guest]

Dear Phil, I hope I don't sound too ignorant( hasn't stopped me before) but I wondered. Do many horses, possibly the ones mentioned in your post, suffer from the Equine Infectious Animal (EIA) disease, a fatal horse illness that is similar to AIDS, that can be spread by needle-stick or biting insects transmitting infected blood. I heard only a little about how some animals (horses)are quarantined for a time, after they are sold, or how they cannot be transported without a negative Coggin's test result. Some can also be asymptomatic carriers. How big a problem is it? Cat hiv-like disease also rising too?

Is tx for horses with diseases that require recieving chemo the same as people? i.e. support the normal healthy qi, and resolve tangling of toxic heat and toxic wind, blood stasis and phlegm?

The needle stick infection/phlebitis - because of sanitation? bad weather for acup? Most AP Vets have similar or better clean needle protocol as for humans, right? < wrote:

Hi All, & Hi Wendy,[Original query - sender's name mislaid]:> On acupuncture and chemotherapy - Last year in our community a> woman died of septicemia who was being treated with both of these> modalities and there was a big stir suggesting that the needling> had been responsible (needle site infection.) Many local human> acupuncturists now will not treat chemotherapy patients. A friend> of mine who is dealing with breast cancer has to drive 90 minutes> away to get acupuncture. I have never had a problem, but was> curious if anyone else has. Was the chemo given by i/v injection? Was there clinical evidence of infection: (a) at the needled AP points, or (b) at the site of the venepunctures (?) where the chemo was administered? I would suspect that, if not expertly given, i/v chemo might cause

chemical phlebitis, and a more likely cause of the septicaemia than the AP itself.Wendy replied:> Why not just require a CBC [complete blood count?] on the day of> treatment?? If the WBC is OK, there should be no problem with> acupuncture. I am watching this thread with interest because I know of two horses that developed sepsis around lumbo-sacral space ("Animal Baihui") after acupuncture there; both were euthanised within days. I also know of a few horses that developed cellullitis on multiple sites after AP, and a few that developed infection from the hoof to the fetlock after Ting Point needling; all of those recovered uneventfully in 9-14 days.IMO, all of those horses were immunosuppressed before Tx. These cases (and the chemo-AP septicaemia case, above), puzzle me. There are many claims that AP is of great benefit in infections and immunosuppressed cases. Also, AP and/or

herbal medicine is often used to SUPPORT chemotherapy/rediation therapy in cancer Tx, and in situations where immunostimulation is indicated. For example many herbs counter the adverse effects of chemo/radiation (leukopaenia, immunosuppression, hairloss, burns, anorexia, emesis, malaise, etc) while protecting HEALTHY cells, esp in organs damaged by chemo (such as LV, KI, LU, HT). Some herbs are said to have additional value when used along with western cancer therapy; for example Danshen, Ezhu, Fenfangji, Guijiu, Kushen, Maimendong, Qinghaosu (Artemisinin), Shandougen & Yunzhi are said to enhance the cytotoxic effects of the chemo/radiotherapy on CANCER cells, while protecting the HEALTHY cells. Any comments from other Listers?Best regards,Email: <WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, IrelandMobile:

353-; [in the Republic: 0]HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, IrelandTel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htmMembership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few

days.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Mystir

 

> Dear Phil, Do many horses, possibly the ones mentioned in your

> post, suffer from the Equine Infectious Animal (EIA) disease, a

> fatal horse illness that is similar to AIDS, that can be spread by

> needle-stick or biting insects transmitting infected blood. I

> heard only a little about how some animals (horses) are

> quarantined for a time, after they are sold, or how they cannot be

> transported without a negative Coggin's test result. Some can also

> be asymptomatic carriers. How big a problem is it?

 

EIA is a Notifiable Disease. I have not ercognised it here so far.

 

> Cat HIV-like disease also rising too?

 

Feline Panleucopenia? I hear that FIP is common, but I do not treat

cats!

 

> Is Tx for horses with diseases that require chemo the same as

> people? i.e. support the normal healthy qi, and resolve tangling

> of toxic heat and toxic wind, blood stasis and phlegm?

 

Cancer can occur in any species, but is not seen as often in

horses as in small animals. Some vets use cytotoxic

chemotherapy in cancer in small animals. However, the dosage

(and cost) in large animals would be prohibitive.

 

> The needle stick infection/phlebitis - because of sanitation? bad

> weather for acup? Most AP Vets have similar or better clean

> needle protocol as for humans, right?

 

Umm ... I can only speak for myself. I believe that it is impossible

to sterilise skin, especially hairy animal skin.Most owners (esp

horse owners) do not like vets to clip skin for routine injections or

acupuncture. Those clips give the game away at racetracks that

the horse has been treated!

 

Therefore, I do not clip skin for routine acupuncture (I would do so

for i/v injection), nor do I use a methanol spray (I would do so for i/v

injection).

 

For routine AP, my only " nod " in the direction of aseptic

techniques is to use sterile needles and to avoid needling visibly

mucky or dirty areas.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm