Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

[Guest guest]

It is the "standardization" of value of a person to society, and their level of care based upon that. If a person is considered below a certain level of worthiness to society, their care and options are limited, thereby limiting their negative effects on society. Those that can more support society are given more. Those that cannot are left to die. All for the betterment of society.

 

Sounds like science fiction, but is in fact real, in effect on many levels, and influencing our lawmakers and leaders this very day.

 

JohnKelli Bever <kelli wrote:

 

I don't know what "BioEthics" is, but it sounds like an oxymoron to me - nothing the govt or chem/drug companies has done that's bio-related (ie, LIFE related) has been ethical at all!

 

Kelli

 

 

[Guest guest]

OK...basically the same thing Dh and I think, but put much more

eloquently!

 

Very real indeed, more people need to wake up to the reality of it!

 

Sylvia

 

herbal remedies , John Ybarra

<deuteronomy2929> wrote:

> It is the " standardization " of value of a person to society, and

their level of care based upon that. If a person is considered below

a certain level of worthiness to society, their care and options are

limited, thereby limiting their negative effects on society. Those

that can more support society are given more. Those that cannot are

left to die. All for the betterment of society.

>

> Sounds like science fiction, but is in fact real, in effect on many

levels, and influencing our lawmakers and leaders this very day.

>

> John

>

> Kelli Bever <kelli@c...> wrote:

> I don't know what " BioEthics " is, but it sounds like an oxymoron to

me - nothing the govt or chem/drug companies has done that's bio-

related (ie, LIFE related) has been ethical at all!

>

> Kelli

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<<<I am sorry, but I am offended by that word and am sure

others are also.

 

Marlene

Herbalists, Reiki Master>>>>

 

As limited as the English language is, there are other words to

express rage, frustration, furor, angst, etc. Anna

[Guest guest]

I think people that this

society thinks are " crazy " are probably the

sane ones. America is presently a very sick

place. I can't believe that the election in

November is going to be even close, that Bush

might even win! Are Americans stupid or just

crazy?!? (Catch 22 -- if you think you're crazy

you obviously are rational because society

itself is crazy, but if you say you are not crazy

then you are irrationally well-adapted

to a sick society and must therefore be

forcibly treated for the good of everyone else.)

 

Anna

[Guest guest]

I'm not on the Hate America First wagon, but If I was from another country

and I thought Brittany Spears was the standard for women in America, I'd

hate America too.

-Shelby

 

 

Anna [drcrandall]

Monday, June 21, 2004 4:19 PM

herbal remedies

Herbal Remedies - Re: Bush plans to screen whole US population

for mental illness

 

 

I think people that this

society thinks are " crazy " are probably the

sane ones. America is presently a very sick

place. I can't believe that the election in

November is going to be even close, that Bush

might even win! Are Americans stupid or just

crazy?!? (Catch 22 -- if you think you're crazy

you obviously are rational because society

itself is crazy, but if you say you are not crazy

then you are irrationally well-adapted

to a sick society and must therefore be

forcibly treated for the good of everyone else.)

 

Anna

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<It is along the same lines as

John Ashcroft opening up the medical records of

each and every woman

of childbearing age in this country to see if they

had an abortion,

if so when, and if it was medically necessary.

This is also in the

process of being enacted and if that doesn't piss

you off more than

a word than something is wrong! sorry, just my

opinion.>>>

 

 

?????????? Could you send me some

information on this!!!!!

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Please post abortion news and information on another group!! What does that have to do w/ herbal remedies???? please grow up!! This is not bash Ashcroft group either!!!

 

Susan

 

 

fyrespryte <fyrespryte wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<It is along the same lines as John Ashcroft opening up the medical records of each and every woman of childbearing age in this country to see if they had an abortion, if so when, and if it was medically necessary. This is also in the process of being enacted and if that doesn't piss you off more than a word than something is wrong! sorry, just my opinion.>>>

 

 

?????????? Could you send me some information on this!!!!!

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, that happens to people daily in this country...

 

Very sad.

 

Kelli

 

 

Candace Podratz [CandaceAndBrock] Monday, June 21, 2004 3:43 PMherbal remedies Subject: Re: Herbal Remedies - Re: Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illnessThey'd have to lock me up somewhere andforce them on me!Candace

[Guest guest]

All I can say to that is.....

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...."

 

Kelli

 

 

John Ybarra [deuteronomy2929] Monday, June 21, 2004 4:55 PMherbal remedies Subject: RE: Herbal Remedies - Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

It is the "standardization" of value of a person to society, and their level of care based upon that. If a person is considered below a certain level of worthiness to society, their care and options are limited, thereby limiting their negative effects on society. Those that can more support society are given more. Those that cannot are left to die. All for the betterment of society.

 

Sounds like science fiction, but is in fact real, in effect on many levels, and influencing our lawmakers and leaders this very day.

 

John

[Guest guest]

I think people that this

society thinks are " crazy " are probably the

sane ones. America is presently a very sick

place. I can't believe that the election in

November is going to be even close, that Bush

might even win! Are Americans stupid or just

crazy?!? (Catch 22 -- if you think you're crazy

you obviously are rational because society

itself is crazy, but if you say you are not crazy

then you are irrationally well-adapted

to a sick society and must therefore be

forcibly treated for the good of everyone else.)

 

Anna>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Therein lies the problem. You choose to discredit those who would vote

for Bush, while calling them names and upholding your own stance (i.e. I

can call names, but no one else can, because I am so right). As a

Christian I consider God's standard far above man's and I can't vote for

a liar or baby killer. See? We both think the other side is ignorant or

immoral and the labels may just fit, but really is this the place to

vent? And to think I thought herbalists were such calm people? <VBG>

Guess that just proves that labels and assumptions just don't always fit

and aren't politcally correct in this objective world. I would surmise

there are loads of liberal groups on where your message would be

appreciated. But then again we could talk about the labels that

homeopaths get, or the people who sell herbs who are likened to the old

snake oil sellers (I am sure they must have been Republicans

............no...........no.............actually they were all related to

Bush. Ever ask some of the college kids who wear those, " Bush is a

liar " t shirts what Bush lied about? They usually get this dumbfound

look on their face before stuttering out an " I don't know it's just cool

to wear this, " or " The war " and they can't even chronical his lies. It's

a fad, which is fine, but's scary they can vote. And even sadder most

of them think Al Franken is serious and don't even know he won in court

because he labeled his own book about liars as a satire,

because.........duh.............the book was full of lies. Ironic, huh?

And he's their poster boy!).

 

 

 

God bless, Alice

[Guest guest]

<<If a person is considered below a certain level of worthiness

to society, their care and options are limited, thereby limiting their negative

effects on society. Those that can more support society are given more. Those

that cannot are left to die. All for the betterment of society.>>

 

It’s got nothing to do with a persons negative effects on society and

everything to do with the almighty dollar. Bush’s entire circle and his entire

presidency, whether people want to believe it or not, has been focused on the

betterment of him and his own. Lineing they’re pockets. Even the most worthy

will be brought down to this level that they are proposing. The amounts of

money that this involves, most of us cannot even comprehend and may never see

in a lifetime. Money makes for a terrible platform to run a country from. Sorry

for all the typos, it’s late and my head hurts from studying.

 

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

 

John Ybarra

[deuteronomy2929]

Monday, June 21, 2004 7:55

PM

To:

herbal remedies

RE: Herbal Remedies -

Bush plans to screen whole US

population for mental illness

 

 

 

It is the " standardization " of value of a person to society,

and their level of care based upon that. If a person is considered below a

certain level of worthiness to society, their care and options are limited,

thereby limiting their negative effects on society. Those that can more support

society are given more. Those that cannot are left to die. All for the

betterment of society.

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like science fiction, but is in fact real, in effect on many

levels, and influencing our lawmakers and leaders this very day.

 

 

 

 

 

John

 

Kelli Bever <kelli wrote:

 

 

 

I don't know

what " BioEthics " is, but it sounds like an oxymoron to me - nothing

the govt or chem/drug companies has done that's bio-related (ie, LIFE related)

has been ethical at all!

 

 

 

 

 

Kelli

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Federal

Law requires that we warn you of the following:

1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician

before using any natural remedy.

3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be

your own physician and to

prescribe for your own health.

We are not medical doctors although MDs are

welcome to post here as long as

they behave themselves.

Any opinions put forth by the list members are

exactly that, and any person

following the advice of anyone posting here does

so at their own risk.

It is up to you to educate yourself. By

accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to

be fully responsible for your own health, and hold

the List Owner and members free of any liability.

 

Dr. Ian Shillington

Doctor of Naturopathy

Dr.IanShillington

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I really….really don’t mean to

be rude here, but what did you all think an open discussion about politics was

going to be like. The doc opened this up because he all thought we were adult

enough to handle it with the disclaimer that he’d shut it down if that

didn’t seem to be the case. Seems to me that that’s where this is

headed before it even begins. We have all been brought together here by a

common love of herbs. However there are over a hundred different people on this

list that come from all different walks of life. We are all going to have

differing opinions about politics that are going to clash with someone elses.

No one here is preaching and no one here is trying to step on anyone elses

toes. Those who have replied snappishly to some of these posts, I feel are

taking this way too personally. Can’t you objectively view anothers

opinion and chalk it up to just that? Anothers opinion?

 

<< Please post abortion news and

information on another group!! What does that have to do w/ herbal

remedies???? please grow up!! This is not bash Ashcroft group

either!!!

 

Susan>>

 

First I will say that I did ask to

have the information sent TO me. I have no wish to start a debate about

abortion here or anywhere else. I was merely interested in any information they

had. I will apologize for not specifying “off list”.

 

Politics covers a wide wide variety

of topics that are very touchy to a lot of people. Nothing political has

anything to do with herbal remedies but please, if the doc thinks it’s ok….can’t

we just be openminded enough to allow this discussion to go on with the full

knowledge that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Obviously the above

is someones opinion, however I believe it’s a harsh judgment on anothers

opinion.

 

“I may not agree with what you

have to say, but I’ll fight for your right to express it.”

 

Liz

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Doc’s entire point, the one that

started all of this, was that neither side was better than the other.

Unfortunately this election if you don’t chose to support the

libertarians you are basically picking the lesser of two evils. Regardless of

what your RELIGIOUS beliefs are (which should have nothing to do with what’s

best for this country) I would think that you’d be more interested in

your freedom than anything else. Seems to me like Bush is the only one who’s

seriously threatening that. I don’t have time now before I leave for work

to find the data, but I know for a fact that there IS documentation about the

things that Bush has lied about. Number one…words coming out of his own

mouth regarding 9-11 and his reaction to it….saying that he couldn’t

believe it when he saw the first plane hit the first tower on TV. First there

was NO television coverage of that happening until amature videos came in days

later. And secondly it was widely reported that he was READING TO CHILDREN when

the first plane hit. Not watching tv. There are plenty of intelligent Democrats

who can site you facts dealing with the lies that bush has told. You don’t

give them enough credit. Unfortunately there is an abundance of evidence

showing exactly what a liar he is, people just chose not to believe it, and

that’s they’re right. I chose to dig for the truth.

 

I’ll only post additional

information and websites if someones interested. Seems like this whole

discussion is a powderkeg ready to go off.

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

 

arobert6 [arobert6]

Tuesday, June 22, 2004 2:52

PM

To:

herbal remedies

Herbal Remedies - Re:

Bush plans to screen whole US

population for mental illness

 

 

I think people that this

society thinks are " crazy " are probably

the

sane ones. America is presently a very sick

place. I can't believe that the election in

November is going to be even close, that Bush

might even win! Are Americans stupid or just

crazy?!? (Catch 22 -- if you think you're crazy

you obviously are rational because society

itself is crazy, but if you say you are not crazy

then you are irrationally well-adapted

to a sick society and must therefore be

forcibly treated for the good of everyone else.)

 

Anna>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Therein lies the problem. You choose to

discredit those who would vote

for Bush, while calling them names and upholding

your own stance (i.e. I

can call names, but no one else can, because I am

so right). As a

Christian I consider God's standard far above

man's and I can't vote for

a liar or baby killer. See? We both

think the other side is ignorant or

immoral and the labels may just fit, but really is

this the place to

vent? And to think I thought herbalists were

such calm people? <VBG>

Guess that just proves that labels and assumptions

just don't always fit

and aren't politcally correct in this objective

world. I would surmise

there are loads of liberal groups on where

your message would be

appreciated. But then again we could

talk about the labels that

homeopaths get, or the people who sell herbs who

are likened to the old

snake oil sellers (I am sure they must have been

Republicans

............no...........no.............actually

they were all related to

Bush. Ever ask some of the college

kids who wear those, " Bush is a

liar " t shirts what Bush lied about?

They usually get this dumbfound

look on their face before stuttering out an

" I don't know it's just cool

to wear this, " or " The war " and

they can't even chronical his lies. It's

a fad, which is fine, but's scary they can

vote. And even sadder most

of them think Al Franken is serious and don't even

know he won in court

because he labeled his own book about liars as a

satire,

because.........duh.............the book was full

of lies. Ironic, huh?

And he's their poster boy!).

 

 

 

God bless, Alice

 

 

Federal Law

requires that we warn you of the following:

1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician

before using any natural remedy.

3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be

your own physician and to

prescribe for your own health.

We are not medical doctors although MDs are

welcome to post here as long as

they behave themselves.

Any opinions put forth by the list members are

exactly that, and any person

following the advice of anyone posting here does

so at their own risk.

It is up to you to educate yourself. By

accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to

be fully responsible for your own health, and hold

the List Owner and members free of any liability.

 

Dr. Ian Shillington

Doctor of Naturopathy

Dr.IanShillington

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Well Liz, in a way it is both if you think about it.

 

Yes it is about the almighty dollar and what we can feed back into

the system, but if you think about it... if one is not contributing

to society because they are " ILL " then it would be in the govt's best

interest to identify those that are not, and retrain them to be

functional and PROFITABLE!

 

Sadly this is very much like sci-fi, and we are but sheep to yield

the end product that the govt needs.

 

There have been many posts saying that this is politics, but really

this is about our freedom of choice, slowly but surely, our rights

and so called freedoms are being stolen from us. Prior to Doc's

orginal post, i was " Sleeping " on this subject becaue of my dislike

for it. however, hubby and i have now had several intense

discussions on this suject because of our concern about the right to

choose and i am now doing research into the other parties and what

they stand for. Had it not been for the post, i would still have my

head in the sand and perhaps not thinking about what i can do to

preserve this right and how it specifially will affect my life AND MY

HEALTH! I thank you Doc for openeing this thread even though it is

normally off-topic.

 

Sylvia

herbal remedies , " fyrespryte "

<fyrespryte@e...> wrote:

> <<If a person is considered below a certain level of worthiness to

society,

> their care and options are limited, thereby limiting their negative

effects

> on society. Those that can more support society are given more.

Those that

> cannot are left to die. All for the betterment of society.>>

>

>

>

> It's got nothing to do with a persons negative effects on society

and

> everything to do with the almighty dollar. Bush's entire circle and

his

> entire presidency, whether people want to believe it or not, has

been

> focused on the betterment of him and his own. Lineing they're

pockets. Even

> the most worthy will be brought down to this level that they are

proposing.

> The amounts of money that this involves, most of us cannot even

comprehend

> and may never see in a lifetime. Money makes for a terrible

platform to run

> a country from. Sorry for all the typos, it's late and my head

hurts from

> studying.

>

>

> Liz

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> John Ybarra [deuteronomy2929]

> Monday, June 21, 2004 7:55 PM

> herbal remedies

> RE: Herbal Remedies - Bush plans to screen whole US

population for

> mental illness

>

>

>

> It is the " standardization " of value of a person to society, and

their level

> of care based upon that. If a person is considered below a certain

level of

> worthiness to society, their care and options are limited, thereby

limiting

> their negative effects on society. Those that can more support

society are

> given more. Those that cannot are left to die. All for the

betterment of

> society.

>

>

>

> Sounds like science fiction, but is in fact real, in effect on many

levels,

> and influencing our lawmakers and leaders this very day.

>

>

>

> John

>

> Kelli Bever <kelli@c...> wrote:

>

> I don't know what " BioEthics " is, but it sounds like an oxymoron to

me -

> nothing the govt or chem/drug companies has done that's bio-related

(ie,

> LIFE related) has been ethical at all!

>

>

>

> Kelli

>

> _____

>

>

> HYPERLINK

> " http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/50x/*http:/promotions.

..com/new

> _mail/static/efficiency.html " Mail - 50x more storage than

other

> providers!

>

> Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any

natural

> remedy.

> 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own

physician and to

> prescribe for your own health.

> We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as

long as

> they behave themselves.

> Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and

any person

> following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own

risk.

> It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or

products from

> list members, you are agreeing to

> be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner

and

> members free of any liability.

>

> Dr. Ian Shillington

> Doctor of Naturopathy

> Dr.IanShillington@G...

 

[Guest guest]

<<Yes it is about the almighty dollar and what we can feed back

into

the system, but if you think about it... if one is

not contributing

to society because they are " ILL " then

it would be in the govt's best

interest to identify those that are not, and

retrain them to be

functional and PROFITABLE! - Sylvia >>

 

In a truly ideal world I would most definitely

agree with you Sylvia. The problem is that with two superpowers, one being the

government and the other being the pharmaceutical companies, being in charge of

this whole thing, there is no way I see this being in the people or society as

a wholes interest. My first thought is that we are already having so many

problems with our children. I came upon a theory the other day while talking

with a co-worker. Parents for the most part are so busy trying to survive that

they have very little effort left over for there children….sad yes…not

true in a lot of cases…yes….but I see it everyday. Then once a

child starts having problems because he’s not getting A) the right

nutrition b) the right excersize c) enough attention they start exhibiting

signs of hyperactivity, depression, autism…and a host of other problems.

The parent, frazzled already, their first inclination is to take the child to

the doctor and because they are gods in their world they take it as gospel

when, within the first 15 min of being with the child diagnosis him or her and prescribes

drugs A B or C.

 

This leaves entirely too much open. Adults

are a whole other matter but specifically for children. My boyfriend and I are

a perfect example. Neither one of us could be called “normal” I

have learning disabilities in some areas. George has an extremely high IQ a

very developed imagination and can be quite hyperactive. We both have fought

with bouts of manic depressiveness. If you put all of this together in a child

which we hope someday to have, we have the potential for a child who needs lot’s

of extra love, attention and understanding. Something that they would only get

at home because the school systems are so terrible. Now if we didn’t have

the resources to homeschool or to send them to private school, no doubt when

the “auditors” came in and saw our child being hyperactive, with

low grades because he was most likely board because they refused to test them

for giftedness or learning disabilities (this happened to a friend of mines

child) the first thing they’d do is put them on drugs. I don’t know….

It just terrifies me that so many of our rights have already been taken away

and more are every day. People get so caught up in drama of religion and

morality that the politicians put up as a front and don’t bother to look

behind the scenes at what is going on. I’ll be curious to see what

happens in the coming months and years. I’ll tell you what though, the

worse it gets, the more doubtful I become about even having children.

 

Liz

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sylvia,

 

Wellllllll, yer DH is spot on, but if yer a candidate for mental therapy and medication, you might as well put me at the head of the line. LOL ;o)

 

One scary statistic is that one in five Americans is already on one Psych drug or another. That's 20% of the American Nation. And this doesn't include other drugs that the Medicos have most of the rest of the population on.

 

No wonder our kids laugh at us when we tell them to "Say No To Drugs".

 

I love this country, but it is going downhill rapidly. Someone else wrote about "America Bashing", but that isn't my intent at all. I might be accused of "Bush Bashing" or "Kerry Bashing", and I'll plead "guilty" to those charges. Just because I am hyper critical of Bush, Kerry and all the other scumbags in Washington, doesn't mean that I'm not patriotic or that I don't love my country. I truly love America, which is why I'm terribly saddened by the events over the last couple of years. If I didn't care, I wouldn't have the wherewithall to even be critical.

 

Being so critical and outspoken of Bush, Kerry et al I'm sure puts me at the head of the line, but I can guarantee you, I'd have some fun with that Psych in that interview before they put me away. I surely would. ;o)

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

-

Sylvia

herbal remedies

Monday, June 21, 2004 6:27 PM

Herbal Remedies - Re: Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

My DH has been saying this would happen sooner or later. This goes hand-in-hand with our opinion of the Pharmies and the medicos collaberation with getting is all hooked on drugs. testing everyone for mental illness would allow the govt the ability to asses who among us is a threat to the "system". I know my thought processes and opinions of the govt have changed tremendously over the last 5 years. does that make me a candidate for mental therapy or medication?If you think about it, the general populous is using/addicted or required to take some type of prescription medication in order to function. These people are dependant on the "system", they cannot function without someone think for them, and would loose their "quality of life". Now this qulaity of life is not the one that was intended for us, but more what the media and those who feed it would like us to think it is. I have come to know many of you and believe that we few are the enlightened because we dont buy into the "system". We dont need, Viagra, Nexium, Zoloft etc and our children dont need Adderal, Ritalin etc. We just need the clean lives that the creator intended.Now in the eyes of some, this would be deviant and therefore we might be deemed, mentally incompitent. SO is this could be an effort to screen the likes of us, or others who buck the "system" out.This is very scarry stuff indeed and i for one am glad to have this brought to my attention and will consider what i can do to help prevent this further Control over my so called human rights!Sylviaherbal remedies , "Doc Shillington" <DocShillington@V...> wrote:> You may be as political as you like in this instance. I opened this thread and made it FAIR GAME. If it gets outa hand - I'll close it.> > The only reason I opened it is because it has to do with all of us. This affects each and everyone one of us.> > My contention is that NO governing body has the right to interfere with my "Health" choices whether Physical or Mental. Period!!!> > Love,> > Doc

[Guest guest]

You're not wrong Shelby, but you're getting side tracked off of the main thrust of the original political post of mine.

 

I don't think there's anyone on this list that'd like to go live in Afganistan. I know I wouldn't.

 

One of the main points to consider is: Fixing up our own back yard before we go meddling in everyone else's.

 

Our own country is going downhill very rapidly and we need to correct this. This doesn't mean that we're not leaps and bounds ahead of what's happening over in Talibafganistan. It just means that we need to do something to handle our own problems before we all go to hell in a handbasket as well. One of the beautiful things about living in a free country is that we have the right to be critical of our rulers. Not only is it our right, but it is our duty to do so when they screw up. Now more than ever, we need to exercise that right for the US Government is screwing up far worse than its ever done before. And remember this. Just because I'm critical of Bush, Kerry, and all the other slimeballs in Washington doesn't mean I'm critical of America or the American people. I think James was being metaphorical in his post rather than literal.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

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Shelby Blakely

herbal remedies

Monday, June 21, 2004 6:31 PM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Re: Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

 

Hold the phone, gotta take offense to the whole taliban thing. I'm pretty sure that bush does not want to kill women for publicly showing some hair. he does not want me to paint my windows black so nobody can see me. If my husband died and I had to support my kids, I would not be beaten for trying to beg for food for my starving kids. I think that by comparing the civil rights violations under bush to the BASIC HUMAN rights violations of the taliban you are undermining everything that those afflicted by the Taliban went through.

Bottom line. In America if anybody beats or kills me (including male family members) they go to jail or get the death penalty.

Bottom line in Taliban country. If anybody beats or kills me (including male family members) they are honorable men for protecting their family image and ego.

Am I wrong?

-Shelby

 

James [bigmuddie2001]Monday, June 21, 2004 1:14 PMherbal remedies Subject: Re: Herbal Remedies - Re: Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

This is just amazing. These people are not republicans. The people who now occupy the highest offices in the land are religious fanatics who if given the chance would make the taliban look good.

 

Keep in mind who you are voting for in the upcoming election. If you are republican, do not vote for the religious right.

 

James

[Guest guest]

Dear Susan,

 

The main point that Liz is trying to get across is that Women's "Human Rights" and "Privacy" are being violated.

 

The subject of abortion is medical in nature and as such is open for discussion unless it gets out of hand at which point I or any of the other moderators reserve the right to terminate such a discussion.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

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susan leach

herbal remedies

Tuesday, June 22, 2004 8:11 AM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Re: Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

 

Please post abortion news and information on another group!! What does that have to do w/ herbal remedies???? please grow up!! This is not bash Ashcroft group either!!!

 

Susan

 

fyrespryte <fyrespryte wrote:

 

 

It is along the same lines as John Ashcroft opening up the medical records of each and every woman of childbearing age in this country to see if they had an abortion, if so when, and if it was medically necessary. This is also in the process of being enacted and if that doesn't piss you off more than a word than something is wrong! sorry, just my opinion.>>>

Could you send me some information on this!!!!!

Liz

[Guest guest]

Right on!!!!!

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

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Kelli Bever

herbal remedies

Tuesday, June 22, 2004 2:06 PM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

 

All I can say to that is.....

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...."

 

Kelli

[Guest guest]

The Patriot Act, and Patriot 2 pretty much flushed all of that down the toilet.

 

JohnDoc Shillington <DocShillington wrote:

 

Right on!!!!!

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

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Kelli Bever

herbal remedies

Tuesday, June 22, 2004 2:06 PM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

 

All I can say to that is.....

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...."

 

Kelli

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yup!

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

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John Ybarra

herbal remedies

Thursday, June 24, 2004 5:33 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

 

The Patriot Act, and Patriot 2 pretty much flushed all of that down the toilet.

 

JohnDoc Shillington <DocShillington wrote:

 

Right on!!!!!

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

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Kelli Bever

herbal remedies

Tuesday, June 22, 2004 2:06 PM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

 

All I can say to that is.....

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...."

 

Kelli

 

 

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

Regardless of the typos Liz. ;o)

You're spot on.

Love,

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

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fyrespryte

herbal remedies

Wednesday, June 23, 2004 1:25 AM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

 

 

<<If a person is considered below a certain level of worthiness to society, their care and options are limited, thereby limiting their negative effects on society. Those that can more support society are given more. Those that cannot are left to die. All for the betterment of society.>>

 

It’s got nothing to do with a persons negative effects on society and everything to do with the almighty dollar. Bush’s entire circle and his entire presidency, whether people want to believe it or not, has been focused on the betterment of him and his own. Lineing they’re pockets. Even the most worthy will be brought down to this level that they are proposing. The amounts of money that this involves, most of us cannot even comprehend and may never see in a lifetime. Money makes for a terrible platform to run a country from. Sorry for all the typos, it’s late and my head hurts from studying.

 

Liz

[Guest guest]

And that Liz is why the policy exists. ;o)

However, I felt it important enough to set aside the policy this one time regardless of the effect created.

Even if it meant the destruction of Herbal Remedies as a list because everyone left, I'd still have opened that thread. None of us can sit on the sidelines of this one folks. It's that vital. Our overall Freedom is at stake here. If the above gets put into LAW, the US and its beautiful constitution will exist no more. Big Brother will have finally taken over (he's been trying for years) and "Freedom" will have been doublespeaked into "Slavery".

You used the word "Adult" and it is the correct word. We all need to grow up here and face the situation.

Love,

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

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fyrespryte

herbal remedies

Wednesday, June 23, 2004 1:46 AM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Re: Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

 

 

I really….really don’t mean to be rude here, but what did you all think an open discussion about politics was going to be like. The doc opened this up because he all thought we were adult enough to handle it with the disclaimer that he’d shut it down if that didn’t seem to be the case. Seems to me that that’s where this is headed before it even begins. We have all been brought together here by a common love of herbs. However there are over a hundred different people on this list that come from all different walks of life. We are all going to have differing opinions about politics that are going to clash with someone elses. No one here is preaching and no one here is trying to step on anyone elses toes. Those who have replied snappishly to some of these posts, I feel are taking this way too personally. Can’t you objectively view anothers opinion and chalk it up to just that? Anothers opinion?

[Guest guest]

Well, there is the escape clause - "it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness".

 

:)Kelli

 

 

John Ybarra [deuteronomy2929] Thursday, June 24, 2004 2:34 PMherbal remedies Subject: Re: Herbal Remedies - Bush plans to screen whole US population for mental illness

The Patriot Act, and Patriot 2 pretty much flushed all of that down the toilet.

 

John

[Guest guest]

<<<<Well, there is the escape clause - " it is the Right of the

People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,

laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers

in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their

Safety and Happiness " .>>>>

 

And that's what our forefathers did when they came here. The

problem is government is so insidiously imbedded in everything we

do, own, say, think that most are not willing to do what our

forefathers did IE give up everything which is what it would take to

establish a new government. Clever congress critters, they've known

what they were doing for years. Anna