ABC Nightline Transcript: Hugo Chavez Interview

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Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:03:55 -0400

ABC Nightline Transcript: Hugo Chavez Interview

 

 

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/International/story?id=1134098 & page=1

 

Transcript: Hugo Chavez Interview

Venezuelan President On Rocky Relations with Washington

 

Sep. 16, 2005 - In his first American broadcast interview since the

Rev. Pat Robertson called for his assassination last month, Venezuelan

President Hugo Chavez told ABC News' Ted Koppel today that he has

evidence of a United States plan to invade Venezuela. In New York for

the U.N. Summit, Chavez discussed his strained relationship with the

United States government, Robertson's comments and the United States'

dependence on Venezuela's oil supply.

 

Following is a rush transcript of the interview, which airs tonight on

" Nightline " at 11:35 p.m. ET.

 

KOPPEL: Tell me a little bit -- most Americans don't know very much

about you. Tell me a little bit about your youth, when you were a

young man.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I would like to welcome you. And I would

like to greet all of the people who are watching this program and who

are listening to it. I was a farm kid from the plains of South

Venezuela, from a very poor family. I grew up in a palm tree house

with an earthen floor.

 

And later, we were lucky enough, my brothers and I, to be able to

study. There were six of us. My father and my mother were both

teachers. They inculcated to us the importance of studies. But out of

every 100 children from my town, 99 didn't get to study. That was

poverty, the poorest of the farmers.

 

Later, I was a young athlete. I was telling this friend here from San

Francisco so that one of my greatest dreams was to be a pitcher for

the San Francisco Giants. I played a lot of baseball. It was a passion

of mine.

 

I painted. I wanted to be a painter. I sang. I still sing a little

bit. I still paint a little bit. And I can still bat a bit.

 

But afterwards, when I was 16, I became a soldier. But I became a

soldier, not because I had a military vocation initially, but because

it was the only way that that young, poor-class child from the

provinces could go to the center of the country: through baseball,

which was my dream.

 

But I liked the army. And I became a patriotic soldier. And that's

what I am, essentially, a patriotic soldier.

 

KOPPEL: I read that you discovered later in your life that your

grandfather or your great grandfather was a guerrilla fighter. Is that

correct?

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):That was from a previous time, a hundred

years ago. Yes, he was a great grandfather of mine.

 

But the point is that when I was a kid, I would hear stories from my

grandmother and my great grandmother -- you know, when they talk --

grandmothers tell stories.

 

And when I was a kid, I heard that I had a murderous grandfather. And

that stuck with me.

 

But later, when I became a man, and I was reading the history of my

fatherland, a history that starts in the 20th century, I conciliated

myself to the fact that he was not a murderer; he was a guerrilla. He

was one of the last men on horseback. This was the time of Pancho

Villa. This was the time of Emiliano Zapata. This was the time of San

Dino (ph). This was the time of (inaudible) the gentleman of hope in

Brazil (inaudible). He was one of those last horsemen who took on

imperialism.

 

My great grandfather was one of them. I discovered the truth.

 

KOPPEL: You're a man who loves language. You're a man of many words.

I'm going to put you to a test now.

 

Give me three words that describe you.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):A soldier-esque man. I would add the word

" patriot. " I would add the word " revolutionary. "

 

KOPPEL: A revolutionary has to be in revolt against something. What

are you revolting against?

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):I've been in revolt for years against

ignominy, against injustice, against inequality, against immorality,

against the exploitation of human beings.

 

One of the greatest rebels, who I really admire: Christ. He was a

rebel. He ended up being crucified. He was a great rebel. He rebelled

against the established power that subjugated. That is what rebellion

is; it's rebellion out of love for human beings. In truth, that is the

cause, the cause of love: love for every human being, for every women,

for every child, for every man, for every brother.

 

I believe you to be a brother. I don't see you as above or below. I

don't feel superior or inferior to you. We're on an equal basis. Your

cameraman, your photograph are equal. The men and women who are seeing

you, who are seeing us are equal. They're true brothers.

 

KOPPEL: Well, maybe the photographer; not the cameraman.

 

(LAUGHTER)

 

No, no, I'm just teasing. He's an old friend.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):It's really hot here in New York.

 

KOPPEL: It's very hot here in New York.

 

I appreciate what you say and I think I understand that you don't feel

that same way; you don't have that same love for the government of the

United States.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):Yes. There are profound differences, very

profound with this government, this administration since Mr. Bush came

into power. We have been subjected -- Venezuela has been subjected to

permanent aggression against us and against me personally.

 

There has been no respect for the sovereignty of Venezuelans, for the

chief of state (inaudible) Venezuela.

 

On the other hand, I remind you that last night I gathered here with

some Democrats and Republicans. Tomorrow, I'm going to be with some

others.

 

Recently, Jackson was there and I'm going to see him tomorrow.

 

This morning, I saw Danny Grover (ph). We're good friends. And I said

to them, and I say to everyone, that it was different with Clinton.

 

With President Clinton, I sat down just like we are now on at least

three occasions. There was no occasion for disrespect on either side.

 

Now, this administration has truly broken with all protocols of

democracy and respect for people. The coup d'etat against Venezuela

was manufactured in Washington. My death was ordered. And it was

ordered recently.

 

Reverend Pat Robertson, who is very close to the president, asked for

me to be physically eliminated, for me to be killed.

 

And so perhaps Christ recommends that when we get a slap in our cheek,

we turn the other cheek. We have both cheeks red and blue because

we've turned the cheek so many times. But we never (inaudible) because

we do love the people of the United States. We want to be brothers and

sisters of the people of the United States, independently of their

government.

 

KOPPEL: I'm going to perhaps shock you a little, but these are your

words. You called President Bush an asshole.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):I've said various things about him. I

don't know if I actually used that word. But I have been really hard

on him.

 

But I have always responded to things that I was termed. I was termed

a threat, a threat to the continent. It was said of me that I harbor

terrorists.

 

There have been official reports issued from the State Department. The

secretary of state has gone through South America saying publicly that

I have to be isolated; that I am a threat; that I am using oil to

subvert order in Latin America. Some secretaries of state -- other

secretaries of state, that I am allied with drug traffickers -- a

series of lies and aggressionists that sometimes I respond to. And

sometimes we raise the tone.

 

We wait to get signals, and we respond to signals we receive from

Washington.

 

KOPPEL: So you haven't got any -- you haven't received any good

signals lately?

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):Really good signals? No. You know where

right now my medical team is? In the presidential plane, 200

kilometers from here. The government of the United States, in

violation of the laws of the United States and conventions, prevented

my doctors from coming to New York. Where is the chief of staff of my

military detachment and my chief of security? On the plane. They've

been locked into the plane, two days. They can't come out of the plane.

 

Those are the signals we're receiving. Yesterday they issued a report

saying that Venezuela does not cooperate in the fight against drugs.

Absolutely false. We have broken records this year in confiscation of

cocaine in the fight against drug trafficking. Those are the false

aggressions, the false signals we've been receiving.

 

KOPPEL: I've been told by contacts of mine in the U.S. intelligence

community that you have members of Al Qaida, you have members of other

terrorist groups who are allowed to operate within Venezuela. Not true?

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):It's absolutely false. And one time

someone said that bin Laden -- did anyone ever say bin Laden could be

in Venezuela?

 

KOPPEL: Not to my knowledge.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):Those are part of the lies that are

circulating. So the lies haven't reached that point, but it's

absolutely false.

 

But it's part of the whole chain of rumors in this campaign to even

justify my death, because recently Pat Robertson and an ex-CIA agent

added that I should already be dead because, since I'm a threat, you

have to liquidate the threats, you have to wipe them out, you have to

kill them. That would justify any greater (inaudible) aggression

against us.

 

KOPPEL: It was a foolish thing to say, and Pat Robertson admitted

later that it was a foolish thing to say. And certainly no one from

the government condoned what he said.

 

Why do you take what a private citizen says, foolish as it may have

been, and ascribe it to the U.S. government?

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):Well, take a look at this.

 

The U.S. administration has to reject -- should have rejected the term

of terrorist that Robertson used. The U.S. administration seriously

sinned with respect to international and national laws, because the

call to murder a chief of state is, in accordance with international

law, terrorism.

 

So this gentleman, Robertson, should be under arrest by the government

of the United States -- silence.

 

Consequently, harboring a terrorist, but not only Robertson -- there

have been television channels in Miami, various people, including some

Venezuelan terrorists who participated in the coup d'etat and who

lived here in the United States freely -- went to request my death,

and the government of this country does absolutely nothing.

 

So they are harboring terrorism, independently of whether or not

Robertson (inaudible) of a personality. But that is not the main

issue. The main issue is that on television, in front of millions of

people, he justified my assassination.

 

And later, he said, no, it was not assassination. It was kidnapping.

But that's also terrorism.

 

KOPPEL: If one looks at your record, one could easily come to the

conclusion that you would like to put pressure on the United States.

 

You have spoken in the past of cutting off Venezuelan oil to the

United States. You have signed new agreements with China. You have

visited India. There is a sense that you want to be able to bring the

United States to its knees.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):It's very difficult for someone to bring

the empire to its knees. That is not my pretension. That would be

something totally disproportional.

 

What we do want to do is have both of us on our feet -- both of us

standing up or both of us sitting down. Or, if we kneel, let both of

us kneel. That would be to pray -- to pray, as we Christians pray.

 

Now, there's the matter of oil. Look, let me clarify. And I would like

to clarify this for the people of the United States. The people of the

United States should know that we are the owners in a U.S. territory

of a great oil (inaudible) which has eight major refineries. That

company has a value in near $10 billion.

 

We're one of the biggest investors of Latin America. I think we're the

prime investor of Latin America in the United States. We are giving

employment to more than 2,000 U.S. workers and their families. We are

paying taxes to the government of the United States. We cooperate with

many cities, with mayoralties, Houston.

 

And now with Katrina, this awful drama that the United States is

living through, from the very first day I ordered a group -- a

coordinating a group of support being sent to where one of our

refineries is located. We've been helping. And we've been even

rescuing people.

 

Practically no one in the United States knows that we've donated

millions of dollars to the governorship of Louisiana, to the New

Orleans Red Cross. We're now giving care to more than 5,000 victims,

and now we're going to supply gasoline, freely in some cases, and with

discounts in other cases, to the poorest of communities, starting with

New Orleans and its surroundings.

 

The people of the United States should know that.

 

The only time that I have said where Venezuela would not supply oil to

the United States, it was no threat. It's rather to respond to a

threat, the threat of invasion. We have obtained evidence of something

which would be absolutely foolhardy, the invasion of Venezuela. That's

where we said that under those circumstances...

 

KOPPEL: Let me stop you.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):... there would be no oil.

 

KOPPEL: Are you saying you have discovered evidence of an invasion

plan against Venezuela or are you saying " if " you discovered a plan?

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):I'm telling you that I have evidence that

there are plans to invade Venezuela. Furthermore, we have

documentation: how many bombers to overfly Venezuela on the day of the

invasion, how many trans-Atlantic carriers, how many aircraft carriers

need to be sent to (inaudible) even during (inaudible).

 

Recently, an aircraft carrier went to Curacao (inaudible) the fact

that the soldiers were on leave.

 

That's a lie. They were doing movements. They were doing maneuvers.

All on documentation. The plan is called Balboa, where Venezuela is

indicated as an objective.

 

And in the face of that scenario, I said that if that actually

happens, the United States should just forget the million and a half

barrels of oil. Because everyday since I've been in power for seven

years, we haven't missed it even one single day -- just one day, when

we were overthrown. We were overthrown by that coup -- oil sabotage --

which was supported by Washington...

 

KOPPEL: If I may, Mr. President, you say you have documentation of

this plan. Can I ask you now, on camera, will you make that

documentation available to me?

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):I can send to you -- I can't send it all,

but I can make sure I can send part of it to you. I can send it to you.

 

KOPPEL: Please.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):I can send you maps and everything, and

you can show it to the United States citizens. What I can't tell you

his how we got it, to protect the sources, how we got it through

military intelligence.

 

But nobody can deny it, because (inaudible) the Balboa plan. We are

coming up with the counter-Balboa plan. That is to say if the

government of the United States attempts to commit the foolhardy

enterprise of attacking us, it would be embarked on a 100-year war. We

are prepared.

 

They would not manage to control Venezuela, the same way they haven't

been able to control Iraq. (inaudible) Venezuela, my impression is

that there would be a movement of a resistance in other parts of this

continent. Oil could reach $100 or $120 a barrel, among other things.

 

KOPPEL: Can you understand why people think that you are unfriendly

toward the government of the United States?

 

Among your closest friends: Cuba, Syria, Iran, Libya. These are all

countries that the United States regards as unfriendly, if not

terrorist countries themselves.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):Well, Cuba is much more than a friend. The

people of Cuba and its leader, Fidel Castro, are much more than

friends. We are joined in a battle which is described in the plans of

each country and described in the roots of our history.

 

Now, Cuba is being attacked -- assaulted by the United States, by the

government of the United States, and that has been the case for more

than 40 years. This inhumane blockade, this unjustified blockade, the

United Nations has gotten tired of issuing pronouncements asking the

United States to cease the blockade. And Pope John Paul II -- and the

undignified, unjust, accusative, arbitrary blockade is being maintained.

 

The assaulted party is Cuba. We are brothers of Cuba.

 

We are also friends of Gadhafi. We are part of the petroleum producing

companies. This morning I met with the president of Iran. We are

members of OPEC.

 

And I'm also very close to Lula. I'm very close to (inaudible). I'm a

very good friend of the prime minister of Jamaica. I'm very close to

the representatives who came here last night, Delahunt from

Massachusetts, Burton, a Republican. Good friends. I have a lot of

friends (inaudible).

 

Now, you can't say -- nobody can say that Venezuela is a country that

commits aggression against the United States or is an enemy of the

United States because it has open relations with (inaudible) world. We

have open relations with China (inaudible). With Colombia we have very

good relations. We have good relations with everyone.

 

The only country, the only administration with whom we don't have good

relations on the face of the earth is the administration of Mr. Bush.

That's the only example (inaudible). We are friends of the king of

Spain. As we say in Venezuela, he is a good guy. The king of Malaysia

(inaudible). The emir of Qatar is my brother.

 

I have friends throughout the entire world, kings, princes,

presidents, prime ministers. Only with Washington is where the

relationship doesn't work.

 

KOPPEL: Let me put it very simply.

 

(CROSSTALK/BREAK)

 

KOPPEL: If the United States doesn't invade Venezuela, can the people

of the United States assume that Venezuela will continue supplying as

much oil to the United States as it has in the past?

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):Of course. Let me tell you something further.

 

If you give me a map, I'll show it to you very simply, very quickly.

Most all the U.S. companies work in Venezuela -- ChevronTexaco,

ExxonMobil (inaudible) Venezuela. And they are producing oil.

 

And let me tell you that I meet very frequently with the managers and

the administrators, the leaders. Recently, the world director of

Chevron came to announce to me that they want to invest more than $5

billion in (inaudible). They just won a gas license, ChevronTexaco.

They are operating (inaudible) Shell, from England.

 

What's the name -- the Norwegian (inaudible), but especially the U.S.

companies. They are developing plans to continue to invest in

Venezuela in gas and oil.

 

Pay attention. In these days of Katrina, today or tomorrow, a

Venezuelan ship with 300,000 barrels of gasoline should be arriving.

It's the first of four or five additional ships that we have sent to

help to palliate the (inaudible) and put the breaks on the

(inaudible). That's what we're doing. (inaudible) You hit me on one

cheek, and I'll try to respond by helping you. I don't care. We're not

doing this for the administration. We're doing it for the people of

the United States. So that's how I respond.

 

We have no plans to alter in any way the supply of oil to the United

States.

 

Furthermore, I would say that Venezuela has the chief, most important

oil reserves in the world. Do you know how much oil is left in the

United States reserve? Barely 20 billion barrels, with 20 million

barrels a day being consumed.

 

Venezuela has 300 billion barrels for the reserve. We have the

second-most important reserve of gas in this continent of the United

States or in the world.

 

Now we want to share that oil and that gas with the United States, but

also with the Caribbean, but also with China and also with India and

also with Argentina and Brazil.

 

Now we are (inaudible) in the Orinoco River. I hope you could visit

the Orinoco and do a special program on oil, because what I must

confirm is that we offer the United States every guarantee for oil

supply for 150 (ph) years more, when both of us will be pushing up

daisies.

 

KOPPEL: Mr. President, on that happy note, let me thank you. You've

been most generous with your time and it's been a pleasure talking to you.

 

Thank you very much indeed.

 

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):Let me thank you. I would like to greet

you, and I hope you can come to Venezuela. Let me invite you and let

us greet the entire people of the United States.

 

Tomorrow I'm going to take a walk through some of the neighborhoods of

New York. We're going to a church to see Jesse Jackson (inaudible).

And then I'm going to play a baseball game on the field with some

Yankees (ph).

 

We love the people of the United States, and our desire is to have a

world of brothers in peace. God grant that that be the case.

 

Thank you.

 

KOPPEL: Thank you, sir.

 

END

 

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