Guest guest Posted May 4, 2000 Report Share Posted May 4, 2000 Very well said, . Z'ev > >I definitely consider food allergies to be a branch problem, not a >root >problem. The root is Spleen/stomach dysfunction in most cases and >while removing offending substances can bring some relief, it leaves >the root imbalance untouched. > >It is like when a weak person is easily susceptible to climactic >influences which do not affect most healthy people. Staying out of >the >cold and wind completely can avoid these influences, but hardly cures >the underlying condition. > >Todd > > > >------ >You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com: >http://click./1/3555/6/_/542111/_/957471135/ >------ > >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2000 Report Share Posted May 4, 2000 CM had to evolve when China was faced with urbanization, exposure to more travelers, and the resulting epidemic disease. The forms evolved then are now traditional. The changes in human lifestyle and diet in the twentieth century are much more radical than those that spawned the fever school, and Chinese herbalism will have to evolve in a more radical way now than then. We can't dogmatically cram modern patients into empirical catagories formulated before some underlying modern causes of illness even existed IMHO, this means reestablishing the normal ground in the patient, eliminating such twentieth century foods as refined omega-6 oils, margarine, and sugar, and ensuring that omega-3 fatty acid, mineral and trace element nutrition is adequate and comparable to that of traditional societies. In many case it requires removal of genetically incompatable food proteins such as gluten or milk protein, which at any rate never comprised much of the traditional Chinese diet, and their removal, in individuals who demonstrate a strong intolerance, is consistent with traditional Chinese herbalism. I very much appreciated Zev's herbal approach to this patient. -- Paul Bergner Editor, Medical Herbalism Clinical Program Director, Rocky Mountain Center for Botanical Studies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2000 Report Share Posted May 4, 2000 Paul, I wanted you to know I've really admired your work and herbal formulas over the years. There is no doubt that we are facing an onslaught of environmental and dietary factors that are accelerating epidemic conditions of allergy, autoimmune disorders in our patient population. And I agree with your dietary prescriptions below. I use similar dietary protocols with my patients, but address it within the paradigm of Chinese medicine. I don't think the CM theory cannot handle the problems of modern civilization. . . ..its principles are timeless, its applications endless. We only need to study them more deeply to find the answers we need. As far as specific applications go, one can understand minerals, trace elements and omega-3 fatty acids from a CM perspective. . .in fact, one MUST, if we are practicing TCM as our major modality. Otherwise, it is mere electicism. Perhaps warm disease theory doesn't apply in this case, Paul. But before we propose 'radical' evolution for Chinese medical theory, perhaps we should apply what is already there. In America, we have only scratched the surface of this vast teaching, due to lack of training, language skills and translation of essential texts. Your judgement here seems to be a bit premature. >CM had to evolve when China was faced with urbanization, exposure to more >travelers, and the resulting epidemic disease. The forms evolved then are now >traditional. The changes in human lifestyle and diet in the twentieth century >are much more radical than those that spawned the fever school, and Chinese >herbalism will have to evolve in a more radical way now than then. We can't >dogmatically cram modern patients into empirical catagories formulated before >some underlying modern causes of illness even existed IMHO, this means >reestablishing the normal ground in the patient, eliminating such twentieth >century foods as refined omega-6 oils, margarine, and sugar, and ensuring >that omega-3 fatty acid, mineral and trace element nutrition is adequate and >comparable to that of traditional societies. In many case it requires >removal of genetically incompatable food proteins such as gluten or milk >protein, which at any rate never comprised much of the traditional Chinese >diet, and their removal, in individuals who demonstrate a strong intolerance, >is consistent with traditional Chinese herbalism. > >I very much appreciated Zev's herbal approach to this patient. > > >-- >Paul Bergner >Editor, Medical Herbalism >Clinical Program Director, Rocky Mountain Center for Botanical Studies > > > >------ >Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets >you see and manage all of your finances all in one place. >http://click./1/3012/6/_/542111/_/957478308/ >------ > >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2000 Report Share Posted May 5, 2000 I have to underscore Zev's point here again. There is certainly nothing wrong with using the methods discussed about food allergy and candidiasis. They are certainly effective. However, we must be clear that what is being proposed is the addition of naturopathic and clinical nutrition protocols to our regimen. This may or may not be part of your training or scope of practice. In Oregon, we are not trained adequately in nutrition, but we can legally advise dietary modifications. On the other hand, it is absolutely iilegal for Oregon acupuncturists to base therapy on a western dx or lab test. We are required to proceed from a TCM dx. At least two longtime prominent Portland acupuncturists have recently lost their licenses for practicing outside their scope of practice, specifically in the area of Naturopathic style medicine. It is interesting to note that Bob Flaws was spurred to his recent extensive investigation of the classics because he had fallen into the trap of practicing naturopathy in areas where he prematurely thought TCM was weak. He was forced to restrict his practice to TCM or surrendur his license when the Colorado attorney general became aware of this. In recent years, he has written at length about the analysis of food allergies, candidiasis, etc. from a classical TCM perspective. I think anyone who has followed Bob's lead and read his commentaries now has a much better perspective on this subject. Heiner Fruehauf has done the same in his Gu Syndrome essays. I wrote an essay on this subject myself for those who are interested. It is at chineseherba cademy/allergies.html TCM has evolved for thousands of years and while we have new insults to our system in modern times, those insults still cause excess, deficiency and stagantion, nothing more, nothing less. Evolution always proceeds from existing forms. That is how TCM has evolved in every culture it has been introduced to. New purely empirical ideas may be therapeuticly effective, but without TCM theory, how can we be sure we are doing the right thing. I know I've said this before, but caffeine increase energy, pot relieves depression, alcohol gives courage and opium relieves pain. Does anyone consider symptomatic use of these natural substances to be a cure for candidiasis? why not? The patient would certainly feel better. , " " < zrosenberg@p...> wrote: > I don't > think the CM theory cannot handle the problems of modern civilization. . . > .its principles are timeless, its applications endless. We only need to > study them more deeply to find the answers we need. As far as specific > applications go, one can understand minerals, trace elements and omega-3 > fatty acids from a CM perspective. . .in fact, one MUST, if we are > practicing TCM as our major modality. Otherwise, it is mere electicism. > Perhaps warm disease theory doesn't apply in this case, Paul. But > before we propose 'radical' evolution for Chinese medical theory, perhaps > we should apply what is already there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2000 Report Share Posted May 5, 2000 Well said Todd. It is easy to get caught up in our cultural branches of practicing medicine, which in turn homogenizes the wonderful system we have all been trained in. Let's make sure we don't lose the heart and soul of what makes TCM, TCM. Even professional athletes have to continually practice the basics... --- herb-t wrote: > I have to underscore Zev's point here again. There > is certainly > nothing > wrong with using the methods discussed about food > allergy and > candidiasis. They are certainly effective. > However, we must be > clear > that what is being proposed is the addition of > naturopathic and > clinical nutrition protocols to our regimen. This > may or may not be > part of your training or scope of practice. In > Oregon, we are not > trained adequately in nutrition, but we can legally > advise dietary > modifications. On the other hand, it is absolutely > iilegal for > Oregon > acupuncturists to base therapy on a western dx or > lab test. We are > required to proceed from a TCM dx. At least two > longtime prominent > Portland acupuncturists have recently lost their > licenses for > practicing outside their scope of practice, > specifically in the area > of > Naturopathic style medicine. > > It is interesting to note that Bob Flaws was spurred > to his recent > extensive investigation of the classics because he > had fallen into > the > trap of practicing naturopathy in areas where he > prematurely thought > TCM was weak. He was forced to restrict his > practice to TCM or > surrendur his license when the Colorado attorney > general became aware > of this. In recent years, he has written at length > about the > analysis > of food allergies, candidiasis, etc. from a > classical TCM > perspective. > I think anyone who has followed Bob's lead and read > his commentaries > now has a much better perspective on this subject. > Heiner Fruehauf > has > done the same in his Gu Syndrome essays. > > I wrote an essay on this subject myself for those > who are interested. > > It is at chineseherba > cademy/allergies.html > > TCM has evolved for thousands of years and while we > have new insults > to > our system in modern times, those insults still > cause excess, > deficiency and stagantion, nothing more, nothing > less. Evolution > always proceeds from existing forms. That is how > TCM has evolved in > every culture it has been introduced to. New purely > empirical ideas > may be therapeuticly effective, but without TCM > theory, how can we be > sure we are doing the right thing. I know I've said > this before, but > caffeine increase energy, pot relieves depression, > alcohol gives > courage and opium relieves pain. Does anyone > consider symptomatic > use > of these natural substances to be a cure for > candidiasis? why not? > The patient would certainly feel better. > > > , " Z'ev > Rosenberg " < > zrosenberg@p...> wrote: > > I don't > > think the CM theory cannot handle the problems of > modern > civilization. . . > > .its principles are timeless, its applications > endless. We only > need to > > study them more deeply to find the answers we > need. As far as > specific > > applications go, one can understand minerals, > trace elements and > omega-3 > > fatty acids from a CM perspective. . .in fact, one > MUST, if we are > > practicing TCM as our major modality. Otherwise, > it is mere > electicism. > > Perhaps warm disease theory doesn't apply in > this case, Paul. > But > > before we propose 'radical' evolution for Chinese > medical theory, > perhaps > > we should apply what is already there. > > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Messenger. http://im./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2000 Report Share Posted May 5, 2000 My food allergy article link got clipped. Here it is. /allergies.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2000 Report Share Posted May 8, 2000 It was an excellent, well written article. Bruce ______________________(ORIGINAL POST FOLLOWS)___________________ In a message dated 05/05/2000 10:15:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, herb-t writes: << Subj: Re: posting 05/05/2000 10:15:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time herb-t Reply-to: <A HREF= " " > @</A> My food allergy article link got clipped. Here it is. /allergies.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 I have sent a reply to a post to this list 2 times now over the last week and I have still yet to see either one posted? Am I being moderated or something??? Terri K " If a diet is unnatural, disease will keep company with those subjected to it. " --- Juliette de Bairacli Levy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Ms. Lau, although not an L.Ac., has expressed interest in joining the group. Is this OK with the group? I can split the difference and make it rather temporary (say a month) so as to get some perspective to the many questions that have been raised. What do you gals and guys think? Doug , " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2 wrote: > > I was wondering if this would be addressed. I also appreciated hearing from Yvonne Lau. She has a huge amount of experience in the Chinese herb industry. But the person who sent her Bob's post should have asked his permission first. > > - Bill Schoenbart > > > , " " <taiqi@> wrote: > > > > I want to remind everyone that what goes on " CHA stays on CHA " . Specifically although I appreciate the time and intention Laura put in contacting Ms. Lau I also need to emphasize the privacy of the CHA members. For this reason I deleted the post from the response from Mayway, not because it wasn't good material but that the original posting from Bob (and perhaps others) got out of the loop of our group. I want to thank Trevor for pointing this out. At the same time I will make the effort to have Ms.Lau join CHA, obviously being a valued member of the herbal community here. > > OK? dong ma? > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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