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Very well said,

.

 

Z'ev

>

>I definitely consider food allergies to be a branch problem, not a

>root

>problem. The root is Spleen/stomach dysfunction in most cases and

>while removing offending substances can bring some relief, it leaves

>the root imbalance untouched.

>

>It is like when a weak person is easily susceptible to climactic

>influences which do not affect most healthy people. Staying out of

>the

>cold and wind completely can avoid these influences, but hardly cures

>the underlying condition.

>

>Todd

>

>

>

>------

>You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:

>http://click./1/3555/6/_/542111/_/957471135/

>------

>

>Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

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CM had to evolve when China was faced with urbanization, exposure to more

travelers, and the resulting epidemic disease. The forms evolved then are now

traditional. The changes in human lifestyle and diet in the twentieth century

are much more radical than those that spawned the fever school, and Chinese

herbalism will have to evolve in a more radical way now than then. We can't

dogmatically cram modern patients into empirical catagories formulated before

some underlying modern causes of illness even existed IMHO, this means

reestablishing the normal ground in the patient, eliminating such twentieth

century foods as refined omega-6 oils, margarine, and sugar, and ensuring

that omega-3 fatty acid, mineral and trace element nutrition is adequate and

comparable to that of traditional societies. In many case it requires

removal of genetically incompatable food proteins such as gluten or milk

protein, which at any rate never comprised much of the traditional Chinese

diet, and their removal, in individuals who demonstrate a strong intolerance,

is consistent with traditional Chinese herbalism.

 

I very much appreciated Zev's herbal approach to this patient.

 

 

--

Paul Bergner

Editor, Medical Herbalism

Clinical Program Director, Rocky Mountain Center for Botanical Studies

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Paul,

I wanted you to know I've really admired your work and herbal formulas

over the years.

There is no doubt that we are facing an onslaught of environmental and

dietary factors that are accelerating epidemic conditions of allergy,

autoimmune disorders in our patient population. And I agree with your

dietary prescriptions below. I use similar dietary protocols with my

patients, but address it within the paradigm of Chinese medicine. I don't

think the CM theory cannot handle the problems of modern civilization. . .

..its principles are timeless, its applications endless. We only need to

study them more deeply to find the answers we need. As far as specific

applications go, one can understand minerals, trace elements and omega-3

fatty acids from a CM perspective. . .in fact, one MUST, if we are

practicing TCM as our major modality. Otherwise, it is mere electicism.

Perhaps warm disease theory doesn't apply in this case, Paul. But

before we propose 'radical' evolution for Chinese medical theory, perhaps

we should apply what is already there. In America, we have only scratched

the surface of this vast teaching, due to lack of training, language skills

and translation of essential texts. Your judgement here seems to be a bit

premature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

>CM had to evolve when China was faced with urbanization, exposure to more

>travelers, and the resulting epidemic disease. The forms evolved then are now

>traditional. The changes in human lifestyle and diet in the twentieth century

>are much more radical than those that spawned the fever school, and Chinese

>herbalism will have to evolve in a more radical way now than then. We can't

>dogmatically cram modern patients into empirical catagories formulated before

>some underlying modern causes of illness even existed IMHO, this means

>reestablishing the normal ground in the patient, eliminating such twentieth

>century foods as refined omega-6 oils, margarine, and sugar, and ensuring

>that omega-3 fatty acid, mineral and trace element nutrition is adequate and

>comparable to that of traditional societies. In many case it requires

>removal of genetically incompatable food proteins such as gluten or milk

>protein, which at any rate never comprised much of the traditional Chinese

>diet, and their removal, in individuals who demonstrate a strong intolerance,

>is consistent with traditional Chinese herbalism.

>

>I very much appreciated Zev's herbal approach to this patient.

>

>

>--

>Paul Bergner

>Editor, Medical Herbalism

>Clinical Program Director, Rocky Mountain Center for Botanical Studies

>

>

>

>------

>Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets

>you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.

>http://click./1/3012/6/_/542111/_/957478308/

>------

>

>Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

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I have to underscore Zev's point here again. There is certainly

nothing

wrong with using the methods discussed about food allergy and

candidiasis. They are certainly effective. However, we must be

clear

that what is being proposed is the addition of naturopathic and

clinical nutrition protocols to our regimen. This may or may not be

part of your training or scope of practice. In Oregon, we are not

trained adequately in nutrition, but we can legally advise dietary

modifications. On the other hand, it is absolutely iilegal for

Oregon

acupuncturists to base therapy on a western dx or lab test. We are

required to proceed from a TCM dx. At least two longtime prominent

Portland acupuncturists have recently lost their licenses for

practicing outside their scope of practice, specifically in the area

of

Naturopathic style medicine.

 

It is interesting to note that Bob Flaws was spurred to his recent

extensive investigation of the classics because he had fallen into

the

trap of practicing naturopathy in areas where he prematurely thought

TCM was weak. He was forced to restrict his practice to TCM or

surrendur his license when the Colorado attorney general became aware

of this. In recent years, he has written at length about the

analysis

of food allergies, candidiasis, etc. from a classical TCM

perspective.

I think anyone who has followed Bob's lead and read his commentaries

now has a much better perspective on this subject. Heiner Fruehauf

has

done the same in his Gu Syndrome essays.

 

I wrote an essay on this subject myself for those who are interested.

 

It is at chineseherba

cademy/allergies.html

 

TCM has evolved for thousands of years and while we have new insults

to

our system in modern times, those insults still cause excess,

deficiency and stagantion, nothing more, nothing less. Evolution

always proceeds from existing forms. That is how TCM has evolved in

every culture it has been introduced to. New purely empirical ideas

may be therapeuticly effective, but without TCM theory, how can we be

sure we are doing the right thing. I know I've said this before, but

caffeine increase energy, pot relieves depression, alcohol gives

courage and opium relieves pain. Does anyone consider symptomatic

use

of these natural substances to be a cure for candidiasis? why not?

The patient would certainly feel better.

 

, " " <

zrosenberg@p...> wrote:

> I don't

> think the CM theory cannot handle the problems of modern

civilization. . .

> .its principles are timeless, its applications endless. We only

need to

> study them more deeply to find the answers we need. As far as

specific

> applications go, one can understand minerals, trace elements and

omega-3

> fatty acids from a CM perspective. . .in fact, one MUST, if we are

> practicing TCM as our major modality. Otherwise, it is mere

electicism.

> Perhaps warm disease theory doesn't apply in this case, Paul.

But

> before we propose 'radical' evolution for Chinese medical theory,

perhaps

> we should apply what is already there.

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Guest guest

Well said Todd. It is easy to get caught up in our

cultural branches of practicing medicine, which in

turn homogenizes the wonderful system we have all been

trained in. Let's make sure we don't lose the heart

and soul of what makes TCM, TCM.

 

Even professional athletes have to continually

practice the basics...

 

 

 

--- herb-t wrote:

> I have to underscore Zev's point here again. There

> is certainly

> nothing

> wrong with using the methods discussed about food

> allergy and

> candidiasis. They are certainly effective.

> However, we must be

> clear

> that what is being proposed is the addition of

> naturopathic and

> clinical nutrition protocols to our regimen. This

> may or may not be

> part of your training or scope of practice. In

> Oregon, we are not

> trained adequately in nutrition, but we can legally

> advise dietary

> modifications. On the other hand, it is absolutely

> iilegal for

> Oregon

> acupuncturists to base therapy on a western dx or

> lab test. We are

> required to proceed from a TCM dx. At least two

> longtime prominent

> Portland acupuncturists have recently lost their

> licenses for

> practicing outside their scope of practice,

> specifically in the area

> of

> Naturopathic style medicine.

>

> It is interesting to note that Bob Flaws was spurred

> to his recent

> extensive investigation of the classics because he

> had fallen into

> the

> trap of practicing naturopathy in areas where he

> prematurely thought

> TCM was weak. He was forced to restrict his

> practice to TCM or

> surrendur his license when the Colorado attorney

> general became aware

> of this. In recent years, he has written at length

> about the

> analysis

> of food allergies, candidiasis, etc. from a

> classical TCM

> perspective.

> I think anyone who has followed Bob's lead and read

> his commentaries

> now has a much better perspective on this subject.

> Heiner Fruehauf

> has

> done the same in his Gu Syndrome essays.

>

> I wrote an essay on this subject myself for those

> who are interested.

>

> It is at chineseherba

> cademy/allergies.html

>

> TCM has evolved for thousands of years and while we

> have new insults

> to

> our system in modern times, those insults still

> cause excess,

> deficiency and stagantion, nothing more, nothing

> less. Evolution

> always proceeds from existing forms. That is how

> TCM has evolved in

> every culture it has been introduced to. New purely

> empirical ideas

> may be therapeuticly effective, but without TCM

> theory, how can we be

> sure we are doing the right thing. I know I've said

> this before, but

> caffeine increase energy, pot relieves depression,

> alcohol gives

> courage and opium relieves pain. Does anyone

> consider symptomatic

> use

> of these natural substances to be a cure for

> candidiasis? why not?

> The patient would certainly feel better.

>

 

>

> , " Z'ev

> Rosenberg " <

> zrosenberg@p...> wrote:

> > I don't

> > think the CM theory cannot handle the problems of

> modern

> civilization. . .

> > .its principles are timeless, its applications

> endless. We only

> need to

> > study them more deeply to find the answers we

> need. As far as

> specific

> > applications go, one can understand minerals,

> trace elements and

> omega-3

> > fatty acids from a CM perspective. . .in fact, one

> MUST, if we are

> > practicing TCM as our major modality. Otherwise,

> it is mere

> electicism.

> > Perhaps warm disease theory doesn't apply in

> this case, Paul.

> But

> > before we propose 'radical' evolution for Chinese

> medical theory,

> perhaps

> > we should apply what is already there.

>

>

>

 

 

 

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Guest guest

 

 

It was an excellent, well written article.

 

Bruce

 

 

 

 

______________________(ORIGINAL POST FOLLOWS)___________________

In a message dated 05/05/2000 10:15:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

herb-t writes:

 

<< Subj: Re: posting

05/05/2000 10:15:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time

herb-t

Reply-to: <A HREF= " " >

@</A>

 

My food allergy article link got clipped. Here it is.

 

/allergies.html

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  • 7 years later...

I have sent a reply to a post to this list 2 times now over the last week and I

have still yet to see either one posted? Am I being moderated or something???

 

Terri K :)

 

" If a diet is unnatural, disease will keep company with those subjected to it. "

--- Juliette de Bairacli Levy

 

 

 

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  • 1 year later...
Guest guest

Ms. Lau, although not an L.Ac., has expressed interest in joining the group. Is

this OK with the group? I can split the difference and make it rather temporary

(say a month) so as to get some perspective to the many questions that have been

raised.

What do you gals and guys think?

Doug

 

 

, " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2

wrote:

>

> I was wondering if this would be addressed. I also appreciated hearing from

Yvonne Lau. She has a huge amount of experience in the Chinese herb industry.

But the person who sent her Bob's post should have asked his permission first.

>

> - Bill Schoenbart

>

>

> , " " <taiqi@>

wrote:

> >

> > I want to remind everyone that what goes on " CHA stays on CHA " . Specifically

although I appreciate the time and intention Laura put in contacting Ms. Lau I

also need to emphasize the privacy of the CHA members. For this reason I deleted

the post from the response from Mayway, not because it wasn't good material but

that the original posting from Bob (and perhaps others) got out of the loop of

our group. I want to thank Trevor for pointing this out. At the same time I will

make the effort to have Ms.Lau join CHA, obviously being a valued member of the

herbal community here.

> > OK? dong ma?

> > Doug

> >

>

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