RE: Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

[Guest guest]

Marriage is most definitely a state issue

and religion should have nothing to do with it. I wish I could find this

article again but it was somewhere on www.beliefnet.com

(which is a FANTASTIC site by the way) but from what I understand, marriage did

not begin under the church. As a matter of fact the church had nothing to do

with it. People themselves declared themselves wed and if they WANTED to they

could have a religious figure bless their union. The church did not get

seriously involved until the 1500’s and even then monogamy was not the

norm.

 

http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=5070

 

The way I understand my history, this

country was founded on the idea of religious freedom. Freedom period. Our ancestors

came here because it was AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE!!! (echo echo echo) Why does

anyone have the right to deny another freedom and happiness? MARRIAGE, just

like our LAWS, should have nothing to do with anyone’s personal religious

beliefs. We are a country full of diverse individuals and regardless of what

you believe in you don’t have the right to force it on someone else.

Homosexuals have been around since the dawn of time. People need to stop

sticking their head in the sand and deal with it, or ignore it. Fighting

against it makes you look ignorant and small minded. Keep your laws and your

religion out of my life. No one has the right to tell me how to think or act.

That includes, my firearms, my sex, my marriage, my supplements, my right to

natural health, and my right to an abortion.

 

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

Doc Shillington

[DocShillington]

Wednesday, July 14, 2004

4:11 PM

herbal remedies

Herbal Remedies - Sanity

in our Government??? Don't look for Logic where there is none.

 

 

 

 

U.S.

Senate Rejects Bid to Ban Same-Sex Marriage

 

 

Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:43 PM ET

 

 

 

 

 

Printer

Friendly | Email

Article | Reprints |

RSS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Related Articles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gay

Marriage Vote Could Reignite 'Culture War'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top News

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Senate Blocks Bush Move to Ban Same-Sex Marriage

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Baghdad Blast Kills 11, Governor Assassinated

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ohio Executes Murderer Who Hid Bodies in Fridge

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MORE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By

Thomas Ferraro

WASHINGTON

(Reuters) - A divided U.S. Senate rejected a bid on Wednesday to amend the

Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, likely killing the measure backed by

President Bush for at least this election year.

Proponents

failed to muster the needed votes to clear a procedural hurdle raised by

Democrats, who accused Republicans of pushing the proposal merely to rally

their conservative base for the November presidential and congressional

elections.

" We

all know what this issue is about, " declared Sen. Edward Kennedy, a

Massachusetts Democrat. " It's not about how to protect the sanctity of

marriage. It's about politics -- an attempt to drive a wedge between one group

of citizens and the rest of the country, solely for partisan advantage. "

Senate

Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, said: " Nobody

wants to discriminate against gays .... Gays have a right to live the way they

want. But they should not have the right to change the definition of traditional

marriage. That is where we draw the line. "

Polls

show most Americans oppose same-sex marriage, but are split on whether a

constitutional ban is needed. Surveys also find voters believe many other

issues are more important this election year -- such as health care and

national security.

Bush in

February called on the U.S. Congress to approve an amendment after Massachusetts' highest court ruled gay couples had a

right to wed and San Francisco

began issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

This

helped trigger a crush of lawsuits, some challenging the right of one state to

refuse to recognize a same-sex marriage licensed in another.

 

© Reuters 2004. .

 

 

Is Marriage a State

issue or a Religious issue????

ARC,

Doc

 

 

Ian " Doc " Shillington

N.D.

727-738-0554

DocShillington

 

 

 

Federal

Law requires that we warn you of the following:

1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician

before using any natural remedy.

3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be

your own physician and to

prescribe for your own health.

We are not medical doctors although MDs are

welcome to post here as long as

they behave themselves.

Any opinions put forth by the list members are

exactly that, and any person

following the advice of anyone posting here does

so at their own risk.

It is up to you to educate yourself. By

accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to

be fully responsible for your own health, and hold

the List Owner and members free of any liability.

 

Dr. Ian Shillington

Doctor of Naturopathy

Dr.IanShillington

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release 7/5/2004

 

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release 7/5/2004

[Guest guest]

When our country was first established it was built around the Bible and the 10 commandments. I think that's where religion comes into all of this.

Don't worry, one by one every aspect of God is being taken out of our country so soon everyone will be doing EVERYTHING they want to sick or not.

 

Candace

 

-

fyrespryte

herbal remedies

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:37 PM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

 

 

Marriage is most definitely a state issue and religion should have nothing to do with it. I wish I could find this article again but it was somewhere on www.beliefnet.com (which is a FANTASTIC site by the way) but from what I understand, marriage did not begin under the church. As a matter of fact the church had nothing to do with it. People themselves declared themselves wed and if they WANTED to they could have a religious figure bless their union. The church did not get seriously involved until the 1500’s and even then monogamy was not the norm.

 

http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=5070

 

The way I understand my history, this country was founded on the idea of religious freedom. Freedom period. Our ancestors came here because it was AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE!!! (echo echo echo) Why does anyone have the right to deny another freedom and happiness? MARRIAGE, just like our LAWS, should have nothing to do with anyone’s personal religious beliefs. We are a country full of diverse individuals and regardless of what you believe in you don’t have the right to force it on someone else. Homosexuals have been around since the dawn of time. People need to stop sticking their head in the sand and deal with it, or ignore it. Fighting against it makes you look ignorant and small minded. Keep your laws and your religion out of my life. No one has the right to tell me how to think or act. That includes, my firearms, my sex, my marriage, my supplements, my right to natural health, and my right to an abortion.

 

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

Doc Shillington [DocShillington] Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:11 PMherbal remediesHerbal Remedies - Sanity in our Government??? Don't look for Logic where there is none.

 

 

 

U.S. Senate Rejects Bid to Ban Same-Sex Marriage

 

Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:43 PM ET

 

 

 

 

Printer Friendly | Email Article | Reprints | RSS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Related Articles

 

 

 

 

Gay Marriage Vote Could Reignite 'Culture War'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top News

 

 

 

 

Senate Blocks Bush Move to Ban Same-Sex Marriage

 

 

 

 

Baghdad Blast Kills 11, Governor Assassinated

 

 

 

 

Ohio Executes Murderer Who Hid Bodies in Fridge

 

 

 

 

MORE

 

 

 

By Thomas Ferraro

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A divided U.S. Senate rejected a bid on Wednesday to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, likely killing the measure backed by President Bush for at least this election year.

Proponents failed to muster the needed votes to clear a procedural hurdle raised by Democrats, who accused Republicans of pushing the proposal merely to rally their conservative base for the November presidential and congressional elections.

"We all know what this issue is about," declared Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat. "It's not about how to protect the sanctity of marriage. It's about politics -- an attempt to drive a wedge between one group of citizens and the rest of the country, solely for partisan advantage."

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, said: "Nobody wants to discriminate against gays .... Gays have a right to live the way they want. But they should not have the right to change the definition of traditional marriage. That is where we draw the line."

Polls show most Americans oppose same-sex marriage, but are split on whether a constitutional ban is needed. Surveys also find voters believe many other issues are more important this election year -- such as health care and national security.

Bush in February called on the U.S. Congress to approve an amendment after Massachusetts' highest court ruled gay couples had a right to wed and San Francisco began issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

This helped trigger a crush of lawsuits, some challenging the right of one state to refuse to recognize a same-sex marriage licensed in another.

© Reuters 2004. .

 

Is Marriage a State issue or a Religious issue????

ARC,

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

---Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release 7/5/2004

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release 7/5/2004

[Guest guest]

Please do not take this as a personal insult... anybody.

 

When the political posts first started, they were highly relevent to this group's focus. However, I'm beginning to feel that it is becoming a personal soapbox forum against the government. Actually, I have become a bit more politically involved because of the original political posts. But I'm beginning to feel that some things don't belong here because of the religious and moral versatility of this group.

 

I agree with some of it and not with others, but that isn't the point. The point is that it has nothing to do with herbalism and natural health and more to do with everything else. Please tell me that it isn't going to stay this way through the elections, because if it is... I can find my information elsewhere until then.

 

I love this group and all the great health information I get here... not to mention the fellowship. But political issues that aren't related to my health is something I would rather research elsewhere.

 

I hope nobody takes this personally, as I certainly do not mean it this way.

 

Blessings,

Mail is new and improved - Check it out!

[Guest guest]

Actually,

 

Candace actually 2 thoughts for you and an offer to

discuss further offline if you'd like Since it is

not directly list related .

 

One:

 

I don't think the country was set up to be a christain

country. If you look at the religious beliefs of the

founders of the country including Tom Paine (Age of

Reason) you will see that the seperation of church and

state was put in place for a very specific reason.

 

The primary leaders of our nation were not

Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism

was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by

the colonial intelligentsia at the time of the

American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief

in human reason as a reliable means of solving social

and political problems and belief in a supreme deity

who created the universe to operate solely by natural

laws. The supreme God of the Deists removed himself

entirely from the universe after creating it. They

believed that he assumed no control over it, exerted

no influence on natural phenomena, and gave no

supernatural revelation to man. A necessary

consequence of these beliefs was a rejection of many

doctrines central to the Christian religion. Deists

did not believe in the virgin birth, divinity, or

resurrection of Jesus, the efficacy of prayer, the

miracles of the Bible, or even the divine inspiration

of the Bible.

 

The founders of our nation intended government to

maintain a neutral posture in matters of religion. For

a concrete example of what the founding fathers

thought as far as the establishment of a Christian

nation, review a document written during the

administration of George Washington. Article 11 of the

Treaty with Tripoli declared in part that " the

government of the United States is not in any sense

founded on the Christian religion... " (Treaties and

Other International Acts of the United States, ed.

Hunter Miller, Vol. 2, U. S. Government Printing

Office, 1931, p. 365).

 

Two:

 

The reason that we have the rule of law in this

country is so that we can enforce those types of

behavior that society agress are acceptable. One does

not need relgion to develop an acceptable framework of

behavior/practices.

 

If you want to continue this line of discussion I will

gladly take it offline with you

 

--- Candace Podratz <CandaceAndBrock

wrote:

> When our country was first established it was built

> around the Bible and the 10 commandments. I think

> that's where religion comes into all of this.

> Don't worry, one by one every aspect of God is being

> taken out of our country so soon everyone will be

> doing EVERYTHING they want to sick or not.

>

> Candace

> -

> fyrespryte

> herbal remedies

> Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:37 PM

> RE: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our

> Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

>

>

> Marriage is most definitely a state issue and

> religion should have nothing to do with it. I wish I

> could find this article again but it was somewhere

> on www.beliefnet.com (which is a FANTASTIC site by

> the way) but from what I understand, marriage did

> not begin under the church. As a matter of fact the

> church had nothing to do with it. People themselves

> declared themselves wed and if they WANTED to they

> could have a religious figure bless their union. The

> church did not get seriously involved until the

> 1500’s and even then monogamy was not the norm.

>

>

>

>

>

http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=5070

>

>

>

> The way I understand my history, this country was

> founded on the idea of religious freedom. Freedom

> period. Our ancestors came here because it was

> AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE!!! (echo echo echo) Why

> does anyone have the right to deny another freedom

> and happiness? MARRIAGE, just like our LAWS, should

> have nothing to do with anyone’s personal religious

> beliefs. We are a country full of diverse

> individuals and regardless of what you believe in

> you don’t have the right to force it on someone

> else. Homosexuals have been around since the dawn of

> time. People need to stop sticking their head in the

> sand and deal with it, or ignore it. Fighting

> against it makes you look ignorant and small minded.

> Keep your laws and your religion out of my life. No

> one has the right to tell me how to think or act.

> That includes, my firearms, my sex, my marriage, my

> supplements, my right to natural health, and my

> right to an abortion.

>

>

>

> Liz

>

>

>

>

>

 

>

> Doc Shillington

> [DocShillington]

> Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:11 PM

> herbal remedies

> Herbal Remedies - Sanity in our

> Government??? Don't look for Logic where there is

> none.

>

>

>

> U.S. Senate Rejects Bid to Ban Same-Sex Marriage

>

> Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:43 PM ET

>

> Printer Friendly | Email Article | Reprints

> | RSS

>

>

Related Articles

>

>

> Gay Marriage Vote Could Reignite

> 'Culture War'

>

>

Top News

>

>

> Senate Blocks Bush Move to Ban Same-Sex

> Marriage

>

>

> Baghdad Blast Kills 11, Governor

> Assassinated

>

>

> Ohio Executes Murderer Who Hid Bodies

> in Fridge

>

>

>

>

> MORE

By Thomas Ferraro

>

> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A divided U.S. Senate

> rejected a bid on Wednesday to amend the

> Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, likely

> killing the measure backed by President Bush for at

> least this election year.

>

> Proponents failed to muster the needed votes to

> clear a procedural hurdle raised by Democrats, who

> accused Republicans of pushing the proposal merely

> to rally their conservative base for the November

> presidential and congressional elections.

>

> " We all know what this issue is about, " declared

> Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat. " It's

> not about how to protect the sanctity of marriage.

> It's about politics -- an attempt to drive a wedge

> between one group of citizens and the rest of the

> country, solely for partisan advantage. "

>

> Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, a

> Utah Republican, said: " Nobody wants to discriminate

> against gays .... Gays have a right to live the way

> they want. But they should not have the right to

> change the definition of traditional marriage. That

> is where we draw the line. "

>

> Polls show most Americans oppose same-sex

> marriage, but are split on whether a constitutional

> ban is needed. Surveys also find voters believe many

> other issues are more important this election year

> -- such as health care and national security.

>

> Bush in February called on the U.S. Congress to

> approve an amendment after Massachusetts' highest

> court ruled gay couples had a right to wed and San

> Francisco began issuing marriage licenses to

> same-sex couples.

>

> This helped trigger a crush of lawsuits, some

> challenging the right of one state to refuse to

> recognize a same-sex marriage licensed in another.

>

> © Reuters 2004. .

>

>

>

>

> Is Marriage a State issue or a Religious issue????

>

> ARC,

>

> Doc

>

> Ian " Doc " Shillington N.D.

> 727-738-0554

> DocShillington

>

>

>

> Federal Law requires that we warn you of the

> following:

> 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician

> before using any natural remedy.

> 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be

> your own physician and to

> prescribe for your own health.

> We are not medical doctors although MDs are

> welcome to post here as long as

> they behave themselves.

> Any opinions put forth by the list members are

> exactly that, and any person

> following the advice of anyone posting here does

> so at their own risk.

>

=== message truncated ===

[Guest guest]

didn't want to say it, but i feel the same way. rik

 

 

> When the political posts first started, they were highly relevent

to this group's focus. However, I'm beginning to feel that it is

becoming a personal soapbox forum against the government. Actually,

I have become a bit more politically involved because of the

original political posts. But I'm beginning to feel that some

things don't belong here because of the religious and moral

versatility of this group.

>

> I agree with some of it and not with others, but that isn't the

point. The point is that it has nothing to do with herbalism and

natural health and more to do with everything else. Please tell me

that it isn't going to stay this way through the elections, because

if it is... I can find my information elsewhere until then.

>

> I love this group and all the great health information I get

here... not to mention the fellowship. But political issues that

aren't related to my health is something I would rather research

elsewhere.

>

> I hope nobody takes this personally, as I certainly do not mean it

this way.

>

> Blessings,

> Angie

>

>

>

>

> Mail is new and improved - Check it out!

[Guest guest]

Actually Liz, my question at the end of the post was rhetorical.

 

You are absolutely correct when you say that we are "Free" to do whatever we wish, as long as you also include in that statement that we are also free to receive the consequences of our actions. At this time, our co-existence with each other is based on "agreement", and it is these agreed upon "rules" which act as a guide regardless of who created them. As individuals we have the choice to agree or disagree with these "policies", and in what magnitude we make this choice determines whether one swimming mostly with the current or against it.

 

Life, for every single person is a book with blank pages. It is up each of us to write the story of our lives, and we are free to create whatever we wish and either fill it to the brim or leave it mostly blank with only a few entries. We are also free to tear the pages.

 

"Nuff said.

 

This thread is closed.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

-

fyrespryte

herbal remedies

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 11:37 PM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

 

 

Marriage is most definitely a state issue and religion should have nothing to do with it. I wish I could find this article again but it was somewhere on www.beliefnet.com (which is a FANTASTIC site by the way) but from what I understand, marriage did not begin under the church. As a matter of fact the church had nothing to do with it. People themselves declared themselves wed and if they WANTED to they could have a religious figure bless their union. The church did not get seriously involved until the 1500’s and even then monogamy was not the norm.

 

http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=5070

 

The way I understand my history, this country was founded on the idea of religious freedom. Freedom period. Our ancestors came here because it was AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE!!! (echo echo echo) Why does anyone have the right to deny another freedom and happiness? MARRIAGE, just like our LAWS, should have nothing to do with anyone’s personal religious beliefs. We are a country full of diverse individuals and regardless of what you believe in you don’t have the right to force it on someone else. Homosexuals have been around since the dawn of time. People need to stop sticking their head in the sand and deal with it, or ignore it. Fighting against it makes you look ignorant and small minded. Keep your laws and your religion out of my life. No one has the right to tell me how to think or act. That includes, my firearms, my sex, my marriage, my supplements, my right to natural health, and my right to an abortion.

 

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

Doc Shillington [DocShillington] Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:11 PMherbal remediesHerbal Remedies - Sanity in our Government??? Don't look for Logic where there is none.

 

 

 

U.S. Senate Rejects Bid to Ban Same-Sex Marriage

 

Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:43 PM ET

 

 

 

 

Printer Friendly | Email Article | Reprints | RSS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Related Articles

 

 

 

 

Gay Marriage Vote Could Reignite 'Culture War'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top News

 

 

 

 

Senate Blocks Bush Move to Ban Same-Sex Marriage

 

 

 

 

Baghdad Blast Kills 11, Governor Assassinated

 

 

 

 

Ohio Executes Murderer Who Hid Bodies in Fridge

 

 

 

 

MORE

 

 

 

By Thomas Ferraro

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A divided U.S. Senate rejected a bid on Wednesday to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, likely killing the measure backed by President Bush for at least this election year.

Proponents failed to muster the needed votes to clear a procedural hurdle raised by Democrats, who accused Republicans of pushing the proposal merely to rally their conservative base for the November presidential and congressional elections.

"We all know what this issue is about," declared Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat. "It's not about how to protect the sanctity of marriage. It's about politics -- an attempt to drive a wedge between one group of citizens and the rest of the country, solely for partisan advantage."

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, said: "Nobody wants to discriminate against gays .... Gays have a right to live the way they want. But they should not have the right to change the definition of traditional marriage. That is where we draw the line."

Polls show most Americans oppose same-sex marriage, but are split on whether a constitutional ban is needed. Surveys also find voters believe many other issues are more important this election year -- such as health care and national security.

Bush in February called on the U.S. Congress to approve an amendment after Massachusetts' highest court ruled gay couples had a right to wed and San Francisco began issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

This helped trigger a crush of lawsuits, some challenging the right of one state to refuse to recognize a same-sex marriage licensed in another.

© Reuters 2004. .

 

Is Marriage a State issue or a Religious issue????

ARC,

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

---Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release 7/5/2004

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release 7/5/2004

[Guest guest]

No insult taken Angie.

 

And you are most correct. The thread has gone astray and in my zeal to rid us of both the Republicans and the Democrats due to their perfidy and their unholy alliance with the Pharmaceuticals and the Psychs, I have perhaps allowed it to continue for too long.

 

This is rectified as of now.

 

The Political Thread is ended. Back to herbal remedies and Naturopathy Boys and Girls.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

-

Angela Sill

herbal remedies

Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:47 AM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

 

Please do not take this as a personal insult... anybody.

 

When the political posts first started, they were highly relevent to this group's focus. However, I'm beginning to feel that it is becoming a personal soapbox forum against the government. Actually, I have become a bit more politically involved because of the original political posts. But I'm beginning to feel that some things don't belong here because of the religious and moral versatility of this group.

 

I agree with some of it and not with others, but that isn't the point. The point is that it has nothing to do with herbalism and natural health and more to do with everything else. Please tell me that it isn't going to stay this way through the elections, because if it is... I can find my information elsewhere until then.

 

I love this group and all the great health information I get here... not to mention the fellowship. But political issues that aren't related to my health is something I would rather research elsewhere.

 

I hope nobody takes this personally, as I certainly do not mean it this way.

 

Blessings,

Angie

[Guest guest]

Dear Candace and JL,

 

A discussion on politics was opened and allowed to continue and is now ended.

 

Without getting into this new thread on religion one iota, it is hereby ended.

 

As you suggested JL, please take it off list.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

-

jl

herbal remedies

Thursday, July 15, 2004 1:14 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

Actually,Candace actually 2 thoughts for you and an offer todiscuss further offline if you'd like Since it isnot directly list related .One:I don't think the country was set up to be a christaincountry. . .

[Guest guest]

Thanks Doc...

 

You really are a good group leader. Thanks for respecting my (and

others') opinions and feelings on this matter.

 

Blessings,

Angie

[Guest guest]

Angie, as much as I love, and I do mean LOVE these people, I agree with you. I was just composing a very similar post.

 

JohnAngela Sill <angelasill wrote:

 

Please do not take this as a personal insult... anybody.

 

When the political posts first started, they were highly relevent to this group's focus. However, I'm beginning to feel that it is becoming a personal soapbox forum against the government. Actually, I have become a bit more politically involved because of the original political posts. But I'm beginning to feel that some things don't belong here because of the religious and moral versatility of this group.

 

I agree with some of it and not with others, but that isn't the point. The point is that it has nothing to do with herbalism and natural health and more to do with everything else. Please tell me that it isn't going to stay this way through the elections, because if it is... I can find my information elsewhere until then.

 

I love this group and all the great health information I get here... not to mention the fellowship. But political issues that aren't related to my health is something I would rather research elsewhere.

 

I hope nobody takes this personally, as I certainly do not mean it this way.

 

Blessings,

 

Mail is new and improved - Check it out! Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr.

Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ah, I have a delete key and I know how to use it!!!

 

Candace

 

-

John Ybarra

herbal remedies

Thursday, July 15, 2004 6:36 PM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

 

Angie, as much as I love, and I do mean LOVE these people, I agree with you. I was just composing a very similar post.

 

JohnAngela Sill <angelasill wrote:

 

Please do not take this as a personal insult... anybody.

 

When the political posts first started, they were highly relevent to this group's focus. However, I'm beginning to feel that it is becoming a personal soapbox forum against the government. Actually, I have become a bit more politically involved because of the original political posts. But I'm beginning to feel that some things don't belong here because of the religious and moral versatility of this group.

 

I agree with some of it and not with others, but that isn't the point. The point is that it has nothing to do with herbalism and natural health and more to do with everything else. Please tell me that it isn't going to stay this way through the elections, because if it is... I can find my information elsewhere until then.

 

I love this group and all the great health information I get here... not to mention the fellowship. But political issues that aren't related to my health is something I would rather research elsewhere.

 

I hope nobody takes this personally, as I certainly do not mean it this way.

 

Blessings,

 

Mail is new and improved - Check it out! Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

 

 

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

I know I'm coming late to the game, but I do have to hold up over the whole abortion thing. Since when is killing people ok?

I live in Washington State and in the more liberal portion of the state there was a veteran that had recently returned from Iraq and was in a parade holding a sign that said "Veterans for Bush". Then some parade goers started to call him a murder and baby killer. Who here thinks that he is a baby killer and an abortion doctor is not?

-Shelby

 

fyrespryte [fyrespryte]Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:38 PMherbal remedies Subject: RE: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

 

Marriage is most definitely a state issue and religion should have nothing to do with it. I wish I could find this article again but it was somewhere on www.beliefnet.com (which is a FANTASTIC site by the way) but from what I understand, marriage did not begin under the church. As a matter of fact the church had nothing to do with it. People themselves declared themselves wed and if they WANTED to they could have a religious figure bless their union. The church did not get seriously involved until the 1500’s and even then monogamy was not the norm.

 

http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=5070

 

The way I understand my history, this country was founded on the idea of religious freedom. Freedom period. Our ancestors came here because it was AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE!!! (echo echo echo) Why does anyone have the right to deny another freedom and happiness? MARRIAGE, just like our LAWS, should have nothing to do with anyone’s personal religious beliefs. We are a country full of diverse individuals and regardless of what you believe in you don’t have the right to force it on someone else. Homosexuals have been around since the dawn of time. People need to stop sticking their head in the sand and deal with it, or ignore it. Fighting against it makes you look ignorant and small minded. Keep your laws and your religion out of my life. No one has the right to tell me how to think or act. That includes, my firearms, my sex, my marriage, my supplements, my right to natural health, and my right to an abortion.

 

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

Doc Shillington [DocShillington] Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:11 PMherbal remediesHerbal Remedies - Sanity in our Government??? Don't look for Logic where there is none.

 

 

 

U.S. Senate Rejects Bid to Ban Same-Sex Marriage

 

Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:43 PM ET

 

 

 

 

Printer Friendly | Email Article | Reprints | RSS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Related Articles

 

 

 

 

Gay Marriage Vote Could Reignite 'Culture War'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top News

 

 

 

 

Senate Blocks Bush Move to Ban Same-Sex Marriage

 

 

 

 

Baghdad Blast Kills 11, Governor Assassinated

 

 

 

 

Ohio Executes Murderer Who Hid Bodies in Fridge

 

 

 

 

MORE

 

 

 

By Thomas Ferraro

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A divided U.S. Senate rejected a bid on Wednesday to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, likely killing the measure backed by President Bush for at least this election year.

Proponents failed to muster the needed votes to clear a procedural hurdle raised by Democrats, who accused Republicans of pushing the proposal merely to rally their conservative base for the November presidential and congressional elections.

"We all know what this issue is about," declared Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat. "It's not about how to protect the sanctity of marriage. It's about politics -- an attempt to drive a wedge between one group of citizens and the rest of the country, solely for partisan advantage."

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, said: "Nobody wants to discriminate against gays .... Gays have a right to live the way they want. But they should not have the right to change the definition of traditional marriage. That is where we draw the line."

Polls show most Americans oppose same-sex marriage, but are split on whether a constitutional ban is needed. Surveys also find voters believe many other issues are more important this election year -- such as health care and national security.

Bush in February called on the U.S. Congress to approve an amendment after Massachusetts' highest court ruled gay couples had a right to wed and San Francisco began issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

This helped trigger a crush of lawsuits, some challenging the right of one state to refuse to recognize a same-sex marriage licensed in another.

© Reuters 2004. .

 

Is Marriage a State issue or a Religious issue????

ARC,

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

---Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release 7/5/2004

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release 7/5/2004

[Guest guest]

Uh oh, I just got back from out of town and did not read this message first. Ignore my last post.

-Shelby

 

Doc Shillington [DocShillington]Thursday, July 15, 2004 1:11 PMherbal remedies Subject: Re: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

No insult taken Angie.

 

And you are most correct. The thread has gone astray and in my zeal to rid us of both the Republicans and the Democrats due to their perfidy and their unholy alliance with the Pharmaceuticals and the Psychs, I have perhaps allowed it to continue for too long.

 

This is rectified as of now.

 

The Political Thread is ended. Back to herbal remedies and Naturopathy Boys and Girls.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

-

Angela Sill

herbal remedies

Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:47 AM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

 

Please do not take this as a personal insult... anybody.

 

When the political posts first started, they were highly relevent to this group's focus. However, I'm beginning to feel that it is becoming a personal soapbox forum against the government. Actually, I have become a bit more politically involved because of the original political posts. But I'm beginning to feel that some things don't belong here because of the religious and moral versatility of this group.

 

I agree with some of it and not with others, but that isn't the point. The point is that it has nothing to do with herbalism and natural health and more to do with everything else. Please tell me that it isn't going to stay this way through the elections, because if it is... I can find my information elsewhere until then.

 

I love this group and all the great health information I get here... not to mention the fellowship. But political issues that aren't related to my health is something I would rather research elsewhere.

 

I hope nobody takes this personally, as I certainly do not mean it this way.

 

Blessings,

AngieFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

Hi Doc & Zeb,

It's been a while, I hope you're both doing well. I have a question for you both or if anyone knows the answer that can help me. That would be great.

In your Female Formula. One of the ingredient is Grain Alcohol. Call me stupid, but since I don't know much about alcohol can you tell me what this is. Is this different than Vodka?...of course it is.

Thanks,

An-Marie

 

 

 

 

AM

 

Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign!

[Guest guest]

Yer most welcome hon.

Much love,

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

-

angelasill

herbal remedies

Thursday, July 15, 2004 6:51 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

Thanks Doc...You really are a good group leader. Thanks for respecting my (and others') opinions and feelings on this matter.Blessings,Angie

[Guest guest]

Same stuff hon.

Love,

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554DocShillington

 

-

An-Marie Gameiro

herbal remedies

Sunday, July 18, 2004 7:32 PM

RE: Herbal Remedies - Was- Sanity in our Government??? Now-WARNING...RANT

 

 

 

 

Hi Doc & Zeb,

It's been a while, I hope you're both doing well. I have a question for you both or if anyone knows the answer that can help me. That would be great.

In your Female Formula. One of the ingredient is Grain Alcohol. Call me stupid, but since I don't know much about alcohol can you tell me what this is. Is this different than Vodka?...of course it is.

Thanks,

An-Marie