Guest guest Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 First, I would follow the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the colloidal silver generator. No one knows the generator as well as the one who designed it. It you have no instructions or you are operating outside the method described by the manufacturer, I would stop when a pale yellow color appears and you will have good CS. Yes, cooking it too long reduces its effectiveness. - Steve oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf Of NaomiWednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PMoleander soup Subject: Re: Re: More silver questions Wow, I think I'm getting lost here. I'm assuming you mean it's best to stop 'cooking' while it still has yellow/brown color? My continued 'cooking' turned it gray and after that 'sat' it became clear. So I gather I 'cooked' it longer than I should have and made it less effective than it might be. Correct? Naomi - Norton, Steve oleander soup Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:00 PM RE: Re: More silver questions Naomi, All LVDC colloidal silver generators create only silver ions (even at 48 volts). The silver particles in the ionic solution are created by silver ions colliding and then bonding together forming a silver particle. Since each silver ion has a positive charge, individual silver ions repel other silver ions and that is how the ionic silver creates a stable suspension and the silver does not precipitate out. There are primarily two factors that cause silver ions to collide. The first is in the area close to the positive electrode where fast moving silver ions are coming off the positive electrode and they bump into silver ions that are just sitting suspended in the water. The second is caused by overcrowding of silver ions in the water where silver ions are forced close enough to another suspended silver ion to cause them to bond, or clump. There is a maximum number of silver ions that can remain in suspension without causing this kind clumping and that is around 20 to 25 ppm. Once you have reached the 20 to 25 ppm concentration level, additional silver ions that are generated simply provide further clumping but the overall number of silver ions remains at 20 to 25 ppm. You may think that this is good if your goal is to have a higher percentage of silver particles in the silver solution but it is not. Rather than just get more small clumps of silver, you get larger clumps of silver. And you do not want large silver particles. The size of the silver particles formed can be roughly determined by the color of the solution. Ionic silver and very small particles will be clear. A yellow color indicates silver particles that are predominately in the 40 nm diameter range. As a comparison, Utopia Advanced Silver is less than 1 nm in size. The yellow color does not mean that the CS is not good. The CS will still contain particles less than 40 nm diameter and particles that are large enough to be undesirable are not able to pass through the intestinal wall and are harmlessly passed out of the body. As particles get larger, you will see a progressive change in the color of the solution from yellow to orange/brown to red etc. So the point is that continued brewing reduces the number of particles that are the smallest in size and the most beneficial. - Steve oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf Of NaomiWednesday, January 14, 2009 9:06 AMoleander soup Subject: Re: Re: More silver questions That's reasuring. Thanks. But how does the amount of time 'cooked' change the finished product? Naomi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 OK, I think I've got it now. Thanks, Naomi - Norton, Steve oleander soup Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:25 PM RE: Re: More silver questions First, I would follow the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the colloidal silver generator. No one knows the generator as well as the one who designed it. It you have no instructions or you are operating outside the method described by the manufacturer, I would stop when a pale yellow color appears and you will have good CS. Yes, cooking it too long reduces its effectiveness. - Steve oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf Of NaomiWednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PMoleander soup Subject: Re: Re: More silver questions Wow, I think I'm getting lost here. I'm assuming you mean it's best to stop 'cooking' while it still has yellow/brown color? My continued 'cooking' turned it gray and after that 'sat' it became clear. So I gather I 'cooked' it longer than I should have and made it less effective than it might be. Correct? Naomi - Norton, Steve oleander soup Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:00 PM RE: Re: More silver questions Naomi, All LVDC colloidal silver generators create only silver ions (even at 48 volts). The silver particles in the ionic solution are created by silver ions colliding and then bonding together forming a silver particle. Since each silver ion has a positive charge, individual silver ions repel other silver ions and that is how the ionic silver creates a stable suspension and the silver does not precipitate out. There are primarily two factors that cause silver ions to collide. The first is in the area close to the positive electrode where fast moving silver ions are coming off the positive electrode and they bump into silver ions that are just sitting suspended in the water. The second is caused by overcrowding of silver ions in the water where silver ions are forced close enough to another suspended silver ion to cause them to bond, or clump. There is a maximum number of silver ions that can remain in suspension without causing this kind clumping and that is around 20 to 25 ppm. Once you have reached the 20 to 25 ppm concentration level, additional silver ions that are generated simply provide further clumping but the overall number of silver ions remains at 20 to 25 ppm. You may think that this is good if your goal is to have a higher percentage of silver particles in the silver solution but it is not. Rather than just get more small clumps of silver, you get larger clumps of silver. And you do not want large silver particles. The size of the silver particles formed can be roughly determined by the color of the solution. Ionic silver and very small particles will be clear. A yellow color indicates silver particles that are predominately in the 40 nm diameter range. As a comparison, Utopia Advanced Silver is less than 1 nm in size. The yellow color does not mean that the CS is not good. The CS will still contain particles less than 40 nm diameter and particles that are large enough to be undesirable are not able to pass through the intestinal wall and are harmlessly passed out of the body. As particles get larger, you will see a progressive change in the color of the solution from yellow to orange/brown to red etc. So the point is that continued brewing reduces the number of particles that are the smallest in size and the most beneficial. - Steve oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf Of NaomiWednesday, January 14, 2009 9:06 AMoleander soup Subject: Re: Re: More silver questions That's reasuring. Thanks. But how does the amount of time 'cooked' change the finished product? Naomi Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release 1/13/2009 8:04 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 The better home generators I am familiar, such as the Silver Puppy and SilverGen machines, all have a combination of mostly ionic and some colloidal silver. The Silver Bullet makes about 70% ionic and 30% colloidal, or so says Ben Taylor, whereas the ratio is about the opposite for his Advanced Colloidal Silver which is mostly colloidal silver. According to Ben, some of the color in the silver solution made by the Silver Bullet is due to colloidal silver. When you go too far in ppm you will also get increased color from ionic silver particles clumping. The bottom line really is that you should not go much over 10 ppm and certainly not over 20 ppm or you will defeat the purpose as you said. oleander soup , "Norton, Steve" <stephen.norton wrote:>> Naomi,> > All LVDC colloidal silver generators create only silver ions (even at 48> volts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Steve, You've been mentioning solution with color then changing to clear after 24 hours. What happened to me was the exact opposite. One time i got a very clear solution, the next morning it turned very slightly yellow, then by evening it got the clear champagne color. Is that normal? Other solutions i made had champagne color immediately after brewing. Once it was very dark brown, this is because i used a 99.99% 14 gauge silver wire i got from a jewelry material store that sold gold and silver. It did not have lead or nickel. When i called to ask what is the .01 made of, they said there is nothing added to the silver just plain pure silver. Is this correct? I reverted back to use Utopias silver wire that came along with the kit, and it worked ok. I've red in one that if you saved those silver oxides and when you got enough to form a mound, take it outside the house and pour hydrogen peroxide over it, and that whole thing would smoke then turn red, like a beautiful stone. Haven't tried it though. Melly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Steve, I thought home silver generators produced ionic and colloidal silver at around 80-85% ionic and 20-15% colloidal. But you stated in above post only ionic silver is made. Which is correct? Melly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Hi Melly,A good home generator such as the silver puppy makes 15% colloidal silver to 85% ionic. Utopia's silver bullet makes 30% colloidal silver to 70% ionic.Hugs,oleander soup , Melly Bag <tita_mel wrote:>> Steve,> > I thought home silver generators produced ionic and colloidal silver at around 80-85% ionic and 20-15% colloidal. But you stated in above post only ionic silver is made. Which is correct? > > Melly> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Thanks Tony. So would that mean if I take about twice the amount of homemade to the amount of Advanced CS, I'd get about the same benefit? Also, I don't have the gizmo that measures ppm. I thought I could judge by time 'cooked' or color. At one point I noticed 1/2 the jar had turned yellowish/brownish, but I let it 'cook' longer. Not sure how long, but next time I looked it had turned gray which later settled out to clear leaving the lack residue on the bottom. Now I'm assuming I should have watched it more closely and turned it off either at that point when 1/2 the jar had turned yellowish/brownish or soon thereafter. Correct? Naomi - Tony oleander soup Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:51 PM Re: More silver questions The better home generators I am familiar, such as the Silver Puppy and SilverGen machines, all have a combination of mostly ionic and some colloidal silver. The Silver Bullet makes about 70% ionic and 30% colloidal, or so says Ben Taylor, whereas the ratio is about the opposite for his Advanced Colloidal Silver which is mostly colloidal silver. According to Ben, some of the color in the silver solution made by the Silver Bullet is due to colloidal silver. When you go too far in ppm you will also get increased color from ionic silver particles clumping. The bottom line really is that you should not go much over 10 ppm and certainly not over 20 ppm or you will defeat the purpose as you said. oleander soup , "Norton, Steve" <stephen.norton wrote:>> Naomi,> > All LVDC colloidal silver generators create only silver ions (even at 48> volts). Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release 1/13/2009 8:04 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Correction: That was supposed to say 'black' residue - Naomi oleander soup Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:59 AM Re: Re: More silver questions Thanks Tony. So would that mean if I take about twice the amount of homemade to the amount of Advanced CS, I'd get about the same benefit? Also, I don't have the gizmo that measures ppm. I thought I could judge by time 'cooked' or color. At one point I noticed 1/2 the jar had turned yellowish/brownish, but I let it 'cook' longer. Not sure how long, but next time I looked it had turned gray which later settled out to clear leaving the lack residue on the bottom. Now I'm assuming I should have watched it more closely and turned it off either at that point when 1/2 the jar had turned yellowish/brownish or soon thereafter. Correct? Naomi - Tony oleander soup Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:51 PM Re: More silver questions The better home generators I am familiar, such as the Silver Puppy and SilverGen machines, all have a combination of mostly ionic and some colloidal silver. The Silver Bullet makes about 70% ionic and 30% colloidal, or so says Ben Taylor, whereas the ratio is about the opposite for his Advanced Colloidal Silver which is mostly colloidal silver. According to Ben, some of the color in the silver solution made by the Silver Bullet is due to colloidal silver. When you go too far in ppm you will also get increased color from ionic silver particles clumping. The bottom line really is that you should not go much over 10 ppm and certainly not over 20 ppm or you will defeat the purpose as you said. oleander soup , "Norton, Steve" <stephen.norton wrote:>> Naomi,> > All LVDC colloidal silver generators create only silver ions (even at 48> volts). Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release 1/13/2009 8:04 PM Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1894 - Release 1/14/2009 7:27 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Melly, You are correct that normally you could possibly have a clear solution turn from clear to yellow after 24 hours. The CS solution isn't completely stable foe a period of time and typically that is around 24 hours but it can sometimes take longer. It was Naomi that said her solution had turned back to clear after a period of time. That is not normal and that is why I asked her about the type of water she used and the color of the sediment she had found. If the sediment had been grey it would have been the silver, or some portion of the silver, precipitating out. If that had been the case I would have suspected tainted water or a solution that had brewed too long. But Naomi said the sediment was black. Black sediment is silver oxide which is normal. My guess is that the silver oxide had gotten stirred up at some point giving the impression that the color of the CS had changed. You can change a yellow solution back clear by adding a few drops of hydrogen peroxide to it and letting it set overnight. The hydrogen peroxide causes some of the excess silver back to silver ions. Naomi had said that she had not added hydrogen peroxide to the solution. If the silver wire from the jeweler was truly 99.99 percent pure you should have had no problem. However, jewelers do not normally have wire that is 99.99 percent pure because it is too soft to use in jewelry. I think that they sold you the normal silver wire that they use. not 99.99 percent pure silver, and that is why you had a problem. They should refund you for the wire unless they can provide proof of the wire's purity to you. I have not tried it but it is true that silver oxide will react violently with hydrogen peroxide. But you should use 35% hydrogen peroxide to get the best effect. Sorry to be so brief but I am short on time. You have excellent comments. - Steve oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf Of Melly BagWednesday, January 14, 2009 9:24 PMoleander soup Subject: Re: More silver questions Steve,You've been mentioning solution with color then changing to clear after 24 hours. What happened to me was the exact opposite. One time i got a very clear solution, the next morning it turned very slightly yellow, then by evening it got the clear champagne color. Is that normal? Other solutions i made had champagne color immediately after brewing.Once it was very dark brown, this is because i used a 99.99% 14 gauge silver wire i got from a jewelry material store that sold gold and silver. It did not have lead or nickel. When i called to ask what is the .01 made of, they said there is nothing added to the silver just plain pure silver. Is this correct? I reverted back to use Utopias silver wire that came along with the kit, and it worked ok.I've red in one that if you saved those silver oxides and when you got enough to form a mound, take it outside the house and pour hydrogen peroxide over it, and that whole thing would smoke then turn red, like a beautiful stone. Haven't tried it though. Melly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Melly, No getting anything past you, obviously. You are correct in what you are saying but I had wanted to make clear to Naomi the relationship between the size of silver particles and the amount time that CS is brewed. There is an optimal point at which you want to stop and continued brewing past that point is detrimental to the quality of the CS. It is true, however, that the silver that is released from the positive electrode is in the form of silver ions only and not silver particles. Silver particles are a side product created by silver ions combining to create particles. While the Utopia Bullet generator is optimized to maximize the particle content of an LVDC CS generation, there are those that believe that the ionic portion is better and take great pride in being able to generate CS solutions with particle contents that are less than 5 percent. Just as there are people who believe that ionic silver is best, there are also those who believe that silver particles are best. To create silver particles directly you need to use high voltages and there some who build high voltage AC generators to do so. To each his own. - Steve oleander soup oleander soup On Behalf Of Melly BagWednesday, January 14, 2009 9:40 PMoleander soup Subject: Re: More silver questions Steve,I thought home silver generators produced ionic and colloidal silver at around 80-85% ionic and 20-15% colloidal. But you stated in above post only ionic silver is made. Which is correct? Melly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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