Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers? Mike and Lisa

[Guest guest]

Avastin is horrible - but then so is every chemo drug I am aware of. You are right, like many other chemo drugs, Avastin has a good "positive response" rate - which means that a good percentage of the tumors shrink. That means nothing at all and is just a sales pitch oncologists use to prescribe the chemo drugs that make up 75% of their income from the markups they take.

See my article:

Hiding the Truth about Losing the War on Cancer

In many ways, cancer is like an infection treated by antibiotics. The easiest to kill cells are what are killed off first and if you stop taking your antibiotic too soon you may leave behind more difficult microbes that multiply and are harder and harder to kill. In the instance of cancer, no amount of chemo and radiation will get all of the cancer most of the time (which is why the treatment itself kills so many patients before the cancer does). The remaining cancer cells can be much, much more difficult and often come roaring back - and spreading - with a fury, their path made all the easier by the damage to the immune system from the chemo drugs.

Our protocol does no damage to the immune system or major organs, in fact it greatly strengthens them, especially the immune system, while also attacking the cancer.

BTW - wonderful post Mike. I could not agree more! Thanks.

oleander soup , Lisa Tovar <tov_legsec wrote:>> This is similar to what has been observed with Avastin therapy, particularly with brain tumors. The Avastin seems to do great at shrinking the tumor initially but then the cells migrate and set up shop elsewhere.> > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mike Golden goldenmike86 wrote:> > > Mike Golden goldenmike86 Re: Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers?> oleander soup > Friday, April 3, 2009, 11:41 AM> I guess I'll weigh in at this point.....Ironicall y, Jim, taking things that inhibit angiogenesis could, theoretically drive metastasis. This has been noted with some of the antiangiogenesis pharmaceuticals. > Metastasis is not an accident. It is not about a chunk of tumor breaking off and migrating elsewhere like the calving of an iceberg from an ice shelf, due solely to mechanical forces. It is an active process that is physiologically based. When a tumor outgrows its blood supply, which is something that happens quite readily, it experiences selection pressures which can result in a series of adaptive responses. One of these responses is similar to the Irish leaving the "Old Sod" during a potato famine. My family "metastasized" to the States that way. In a tumor the cells that don't evolve this escape mechanism might not survive. This is why you can get spontaneous tumor necrosis. Cells that do evolve this mechanism have a chance in the "new world". > Cutting the blood supply to a tumor via chemical intervention can select for cells that metastasize.> Does pancreatic, or otherwise proteolytic, enzyme supplementation contribute to metastasis? Well...maybe, but it's unlikely it could do it by simply breaking the cells loose by dissolving proteinaceous anchors.. It would have to be more complicated that that. I don't think we have the data to answer this question.> Are we supposed to abandon antiangeogenesis approaches and enzymatic treatments?> It seems to me that nearly everything is a "two edged sword". For every benefit there is a detriment. "One man's meat is another man's poison", etc.> If an anticancer regimen is comprehensive; encouraging immune stimulous, involving targeted cytotoxic elements, encouraging healthy terrain, promoting a sense of well-being, incorporating redundant backup systems..... .then I think that enzymes and antiangiogenesis have their place even if there is a statistical risk when they are considered individually.> > Mike> > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, jrrjim <jim.mcelroy10@ > wrote:> > > jrrjim <jim.mcelroy10@ >> Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers?> oleander soup> Friday, April 3, 2009, 4:00 PM> > > > > Good points -- I've been taking lycene and proline (via whey isolate), green tea extract, and vitamin C all at the same time to try to inhibit angiogenesis. Am I destroying all this with the porcine enzymes?> > oleander soup, Lisa Tovar <tov_legsec@ ...> wrote:> >> > Yes, it must be figured out. I had been doing reading about Dr. Rath's theories about not breaking down the collagen matrix which would then inhibit metastases and prohibit spread of cancer (using Lysine and Proline to inhibit the breakdown.) It occurred to me that it seems that the pancreatic enzymes might be contraindicated. Coincidentally, I have e-mailed to ask him if the two approaches would conflict -- not breaking down to inhibit cancer cell establishment, or breaking down (i.e., the pancreatic enzymes dissolving materials supposedly to dissolve proteins -- would they dissolve the collagen? I await a response. I hope someone on this board has knowledge as well. I also have just started giving my husband pancreatic enzymes, but had been giving him lysine supplements in the hopes of keeping the cancer from traveling and establishing elsewhere.> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony,

My Mom was diagnosed with stg 4 ovarian cancer last Aug. She had chemo twice, two weeks apart. It almost killed her and she did not do the remaining 6 scheduled doses. She started on Budwig and later added Oleander (OPC pills). After about 3-4 months when she was feeling really good, she started chemo again. A different combo that was milder than the first. She just finished with that. In the beginning her CA-125 was 5300. It has gone down to 87. At first, they couldn't operate saying that the tumor was spread out all over her abdomin with do defined parameters. Now they are saying that it has shrunk and is operable. The other day, before she saw the surgeon, she was saying that she was finished with the chemo and was not going to do any surgery and just stick with Budwig and Oleander. She feels good and wanted to get the chemo out of her system and feel even better. She sounded like she planned to do that for a good long while and just take the blood test every couple of months to monitor. Now she seems to have been talked into the operation.

After reading the post below, I'm so confused. If she did just continue with Budwig and Oleander would the cancer start to grow again because the chemo didn't get it all and what is left is now super resistant? Are Budwig and Oleander strong enough to keep it at bay and continue to shrink it? Of course, if she does surgery they 'will not get it all' and she will have to do more chemo and further break down her system. Also, she would have to stop the BP at least one week before surgery. Would she have to stop the Oleander before the surgery as well? If so, when could she start back up? I've always read on these groups that operating on tumors spreads the cancer to other parts of the body. Is that why they always do chemo after? How long before cancer shows up in other parts of the body? Typically?

 

Confused,

 

Rose www.orangecountypropertyservices.com

714.549-3519 Office/Fax 714.349-1200 Cell

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss

 

 

oleander soup From: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 20:58:52 +0000 Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers? Mike and Lisa

 

 

 

Avastin is horrible - but then so is every chemo drug I am aware of. You are right, like many other chemo drugs, Avastin has a good "positive response" rate - which means that a good percentage of the tumors shrink. That means nothing at all and is just a sales pitch oncologists use to prescribe the chemo drugs that make up 75% of their income from the markups they take.

See my article:

Hiding the Truth about Losing the War on Cancer

In many ways, cancer is like an infection treated by antibiotics. The easiest to kill cells are what are killed off first and if you stop taking your antibiotic too soon you may leave behind more difficult microbes that multiply and are harder and harder to kill. In the instance of cancer, no amount of chemo and radiation will get all of the cancer most of the time (which is why the treatment itself kills so many patients before the cancer does). The remaining cancer cells can be much, much more difficult and often come roaring back - and spreading - with a fury, their path made all the easier by the damage to the immune system from the chemo drugs.

Our protocol does no damage to the immune system or major organs, in fact it greatly strengthens them, especially the immune system, while also attacking the cancer.

BTW - wonderful post Mike. I could not agree more! Thanks.

oleander soup , Lisa Tovar <tov_legsec wrote:>> This is similar to what has been observed with Avastin therapy, particularly with brain tumors. The Avastin seems to do great at shrinking the tumor initially but then the cells migrate and set up shop elsewhere.> > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mike Golden goldenmike86 wrote:> > > Mike Golden goldenmike86 Re: Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers?> oleander soup > Friday, April 3, 2009, 11:41 AM> I guess I'll weigh in at this point.....Ironicall y, Jim, taking things that inhibit angiogenesis could, theoretically drive metastasis. This has been noted with some of the antiangiogenesis pharmaceuticals. > Metastasis is not an accident. It is not about a chunk of tumor breaking off and migrating elsewhere like the calving of an iceberg from an ice shelf, due solely to mechanical forces. It is an active process that is physiologically based. When a tumor outgrows its blood supply, which is something that happens quite readily, it experiences selection pressures which can result in a series of adaptive responses. One of these responses is similar to the Irish leaving the "Old Sod" during a potato famine. My family "metastasized" to the States that way. In a tumor the cells that don't evolve this escape mechanism might not survive. This is why you can get spontaneous tumor necrosis. Cells that do evolve this mechanism have a chance in the "new world". > Cutting the blood supply to a tumor via chemical intervention can select for cells that metastasize.> Does pancreatic, or otherwise proteolytic, enzyme supplementation contribute to metastasis? Well...maybe, but it's unlikely it could do it by simply breaking the cells loose by dissolving proteinaceous anchors.. It would have to be more complicated that that. I don't think we have the data to answer this question.> Are we supposed to abandon antiangeogenesis approaches and enzymatic treatments?> It seems to me that nearly everything is a "two edged sword". For every benefit there is a detriment. "One man's meat is another man's poison", etc.> If an anticancer regimen is comprehensive; encouraging immune stimulous, involving targeted cytotoxic elements, encouraging healthy terrain, promoting a sense of well-being, incorporating redundant backup systems..... .then I think that enzymes and antiangiogenesis have their place even if there is a statistical risk when they are considered individually.> > Mike> > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, jrrjim <jim.mcelroy10@ > wrote:> > > jrrjim <jim.mcelroy10@ >> Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers?> oleander soup> Friday, April 3, 2009, 4:00 PM> > > > > Good points -- I've been taking lycene and proline (via whey isolate), green tea extract, and vitamin C all at the same time to try to inhibit angiogenesis. Am I destroying all this with the porcine enzymes?> > oleander soup, Lisa Tovar <tov_legsec@ ...> wrote:> >> > Yes, it must be figured out. I had been doing reading about Dr. Rath's theories about not breaking down the collagen matrix which would then inhibit metastases and prohibit spread of cancer (using Lysine and Proline to inhibit the breakdown.) It occurred to me that it seems that the pancreatic enzymes might be contraindicated. Coincidentally, I have e-mailed to ask him if the two approaches would conflict -- not breaking down to inhibit cancer cell establishment, or breaking down (i.e., the pancreatic enzymes dissolving materials supposedly to dissolve proteins -- would they dissolve the collagen? I await a response. I hope someone on this board has knowledge as well. I also have just started giving my husband pancreatic enzymes, but had been giving him lysine supplements in the hopes of keeping the cancer from traveling and establishing elsewhere.> >>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Rose,

 

No one can tell your mother what to do, all we can do is give our opinion on what we would do in a similar situation. If it were me, I'd run as far and as fast away from the surgeon as I could. The tumor, which was inoperable and terminal, shrunk due to the oleander and other things your mother was doing, so why would you deviate from that and do something which could spread the tumor or not remove all of the tumor and was not part of the SUCCESSFUL protocol to begin with? If it were me, I'd continue on with what I was doing... it was apparently successful. Why would anyone deviate from a successful protocol???

 

Bob

 

-

Rosemarie Geiger

oleander soup

Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:10 PM

RE: Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers? Mike and Lisa

Hi Tony,My Mom was diagnosed with stg 4 ovarian cancer last Aug. She had chemo twice, two weeks apart. It almost killed her and she did not do the remaining 6 scheduled doses. She started on Budwig and later added Oleander (OPC pills). After about 3-4 months when she was feeling really good, she started chemo again. A different combo that was milder than the first. She just finished with that. In the beginning her CA-125 was 5300. It has gone down to 87. At first, they couldn't operate saying that the tumor was spread out all over her abdomin with do defined parameters. Now they are saying that it has shrunk and is operable. The other day, before she saw the surgeon, she was saying that she was finished with the chemo and was not going to do any surgery and just stick with Budwig and Oleander. She feels good and wanted to get the chemo out of her system and feel even better. She sounded like she planned to do that for a good long while and just take the blood test every couple of months to monitor. Now she seems to have been talked into the operation.After reading the post below, I'm so confused. If she did just continue with Budwig and Oleander would the cancer start to grow again because the chemo didn't get it all and what is left is now super resistant? Are Budwig and Oleander strong enough to keep it at bay and continue to shrink it? Of course, if she does surgery they 'will not get it all' and she will have to do more chemo and further break down her system. Also, she would have to stop the BP at least one week before surgery. Would she have to stop the Oleander before the surgery as well? If so, when could she start back up? I've always read on these groups that operating on tumors spreads the cancer to other parts of the body. Is that why they always do chemo after? How long before cancer shows up in other parts of the body? Typically? Confused,

 

Rose www.orangecountypropertyservices.com

714.549-3519 Office/Fax 714.349-1200 Cell

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss

 

oleander soup From: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 20:58:52 +0000 Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers? Mike and Lisa

 

 

 

Avastin is horrible - but then so is every chemo drug I am aware of. You are right, like many other chemo drugs, Avastin has a good "positive response" rate - which means that a good percentage of the tumors shrink. That means nothing at all and is just a sales pitch oncologists use to prescribe the chemo drugs that make up 75% of their income from the markups they take.See my article:Hiding the Truth about Losing the War on CancerIn many ways, cancer is like an infection treated by antibiotics. The easiest to kill cells are what are killed off first and if you stop taking your antibiotic too soon you may leave behind more difficult microbes that multiply and are harder and harder to kill. In the instance of cancer, no amount of chemo and radiation will get all of the cancer most of the time (which is why the treatment itself kills so many patients before the cancer does). The remaining cancer cells can be much, much more difficult and often come roaring back - and spreading - with a fury, their path made all the easier by the damage to the immune system from the chemo drugs.Our protocol does no damage to the immune system or major organs, in fact it greatly strengthens them, especially the immune system, while also attacking the cancer.BTW - wonderful post Mike. I could not agree more! Thanks.Tonyoleander soup , Lisa Tovar <tov_legsec wrote:>> This is similar to what has been observed with Avastin therapy, particularly with brain tumors. The Avastin seems to do great at shrinking the tumor initially but then the cells migrate and set up shop elsewhere.> > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mike Golden goldenmike86 wrote:> > > Mike Golden goldenmike86 Re: Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers?> oleander soup > Friday, April 3, 2009, 11:41 AM> I guess I'll weigh in at this point.....Ironicall y, Jim, taking things that inhibit angiogenesis could, theoretically drive metastasis. This has been noted with some of the antiangiogenesis pharmaceuticals. > Metastasis is not an accident. It is not about a chunk of tumor breaking off and migrating elsewhere like the calving of an iceberg from an ice shelf, due solely to mechanical forces. It is an active process that is physiologically based. When a tumor outgrows its blood supply, which is something that happens quite readily, it experiences selection pressures which can result in a series of adaptive responses. One of these responses is similar to the Irish leaving the "Old Sod" during a potato famine. My family "metastasized" to the States that way. In a tumor the cells that don't evolve this escape mechanism might not survive. This is why you can get spontaneous tumor necrosis. Cells that do evolve this mechanism have a chance in the "new world". > Cutting the blood supply to a tumor via chemical intervention can select for cells that metastasize.> Does pancreatic, or otherwise proteolytic, enzyme supplementation contribute to metastasis? Well...maybe, but it's unlikely it could do it by simply breaking the cells loose by dissolving proteinaceous anchors.. It would have to be more complicated that that. I don't think we have the data to answer this question.> Are we supposed to abandon antiangeogenesis approaches and enzymatic treatments?> It seems to me that nearly everything is a "two edged sword". For every benefit there is a detriment. "One man's meat is another man's poison", etc.> If an anticancer regimen is comprehensive; encouraging immune stimulous, involving targeted cytotoxic elements, encouraging healthy terrain, promoting a sense of well-being, incorporating redundant backup systems..... .then I think that enzymes and antiangiogenesis have their place even if there is a statistical risk when they are considered individually.> > Mike> > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, jrrjim <jim.mcelroy10@ > wrote:> > > jrrjim <jim.mcelroy10@ >> Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers?> oleander soup> Friday, April 3, 2009, 4:00 PM> > > > > Good points -- I've been taking lycene and proline (via whey isolate), green tea extract, and vitamin C all at the same time to try to inhibit angiogenesis. Am I destroying all this with the porcine enzymes?> > oleander soup, Lisa Tovar <tov_legsec@ ...> wrote:> >> > Yes, it must be figured out. I had been doing reading about Dr. Rath's theories about not breaking down the collagen matrix which would then inhibit metastases and prohibit spread of cancer (using Lysine and Proline to inhibit the breakdown.) It occurred to me that it seems that the pancreatic enzymes might be contraindicated. Coincidentally, I have e-mailed to ask him if the two approaches would conflict -- not breaking down to inhibit cancer cell establishment, or breaking down (i.e., the pancreatic enzymes dissolving materials supposedly to dissolve proteins -- would they dissolve the collagen? I await a response. I hope someone on this board has knowledge as well. I also have just started giving my husband pancreatic enzymes, but had been giving him lysine supplements in the hopes of keeping the cancer from traveling and establishing elsewhere.> >>

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Bob,

Believe me, I know we can't tell her what to do! I wish we could, I've feel a lot better but, the decision has to be hers.

I just had the question about the chemo. She was on the chemo and I'm sure that that also helped to shrink the tumor along with the Oleander and the Budwig Protocol.

I'm worried that if she continues with only the Oleander and Budwig and does not do the surgery or try anything else that the tumor will start to grow again and even faster than before. I read a post on this group that the chemo shrinks the cancer to the point of not working anymore because what is left are the most resistant cells. Won't these be immune to Oleander and Budwig as well? I was against any chemo and thought she was doing well enough with the Oleander and Budwig Program she was doing. I'm afraid that doing the chemo made things worse for her in the long run. I'm really worried now about the surgery. If she has it, I'm afraid it will spread her cancer to other parts of her body. I'm afraid she will have to do more chemo after the surgery and that this will further distress her body and the Oleander and Budwig will not be able to help her overcome the damage. I just don't know how to explain this all to her.

Thanks for your comments.

 

Hugs,

Rose www.orangecountypropertyservices.com

714.549-3519 Office/Fax 714.349-1200 Cell

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss

 

 

oleander soup From: bbaneverDate: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 18:45:47 -0700Re: Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers? Mike and Lisa

 

 

 

Rose,

 

No one can tell your mother what to do, all we can do is give our opinion on what we would do in a similar situation. If it were me, I'd run as far and as fast away from the surgeon as I could. The tumor, which was inoperable and terminal, shrunk due to the oleander and other things your mother was doing, so why would you deviate from that and do something which could spread the tumor or not remove all of the tumor and was not part of the SUCCESSFUL protocol to begin with? If it were me, I'd continue on with what I was doing... it was apparently successful. Why would anyone deviate from a successful protocol???

 

Bob

 

-

Rosemarie Geiger

oleander soup

Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:10 PM

RE: Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers? Mike and Lisa

Hi Tony,My Mom was diagnosed with stg 4 ovarian cancer last Aug. She had chemo twice, two weeks apart. It almost killed her and she did not do the remaining 6 scheduled doses. She started on Budwig and later added Oleander (OPC pills). After about 3-4 months when she was feeling really good, she started chemo again. A different combo that was milder than the first. She just finished with that. In the beginning her CA-125 was 5300. It has gone down to 87. At first, they couldn't operate saying that the tumor was spread out all over her abdomin with do defined parameters. Now they are saying that it has shrunk and is operable. The other day, before she saw the surgeon, she was saying that she was finished with the chemo and was not going to do any surgery and just stick with Budwig and Oleander. She feels good and wanted to get the chemo out of her system and feel even better. She sounded like she planned to do that for a good long while and just take the blood test every couple of months to monitor. Now she seems to have been talked into the operation.After reading the post below, I'm so confused. If she did just continue with Budwig and Oleander would the cancer start to grow again because the chemo didn't get it all and what is left is now super resistant? Are Budwig and Oleander strong enough to keep it at bay and continue to shrink it? Of course, if she does surgery they 'will not get it all' and she will have to do more chemo and further break down her system. Also, she would have to stop the BP at least one week before surgery. Would she have to stop the Oleander before the surgery as well? If so, when could she start back up? I've always read on these groups that operating on tumors spreads the cancer to other parts of the body. Is that why they always do chemo after? How long before cancer shows up in other parts of the body? Typically? Confused,

 

Rose www.orangecountypropertyservices.com

714.549-3519 Office/Fax 714.349-1200 Cell

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss

 

oleander soup From: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 20:58:52 +0000 Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers? Mike and Lisa

 

 

 

Avastin is horrible - but then so is every chemo drug I am aware of. You are right, like many other chemo drugs, Avastin has a good "positive response" rate - which means that a good percentage of the tumors shrink. That means nothing at all and is just a sales pitch oncologists use to prescribe the chemo drugs that make up 75% of their income from the markups they take.See my article:Hiding the Truth about Losing the War on CancerIn many ways, cancer is like an infection treated by antibiotics. The easiest to kill cells are what are killed off first and if you stop taking your antibiotic too soon you may leave behind more difficult microbes that multiply and are harder and harder to kill. In the instance of cancer, no amount of chemo and radiation will get all of the cancer most of the time (which is why the treatment itself kills so many patients before the cancer does). The remaining cancer cells can be much, much more difficult and often come roaring back - and spreading - with a fury, their path made all the easier by the damage to the immune system from the chemo drugs.Our protocol does no damage to the immune system or major organs, in fact it greatly strengthens them, especially the immune system, while also attacking the cancer.BTW - wonderful post Mike. I could not agree more! Thanks.Tonyoleander soup , Lisa Tovar <tov_legsec wrote:>> This is similar to what has been observed with Avastin therapy, particularly with brain tumors. The Avastin seems to do great at shrinking the tumor initially but then the cells migrate and set up shop elsewhere.> > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mike Golden goldenmike86 wrote:> > > Mike Golden goldenmike86 Re: Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers?> oleander soup > Friday, April 3, 2009, 11:41 AM> I guess I'll weigh in at this point.....Ironicall y, Jim, taking things that inhibit angiogenesis could, theoretically drive metastasis. This has been noted with some of the antiangiogenesis pharmaceuticals. > Metastasis is not an accident. It is not about a chunk of tumor breaking off and migrating elsewhere like the calving of an iceberg from an ice shelf, due solely to mechanical forces. It is an active process that is physiologically based. When a tumor outgrows its blood supply, which is something that happens quite readily, it experiences selection pressures which can result in a series of adaptive responses. One of these responses is similar to the Irish leaving the "Old Sod" during a potato famine. My family "metastasized" to the States that way. In a tumor the cells that don't evolve this escape mechanism might not survive. This is why you can get spontaneous tumor necrosis. Cells that do evolve this mechanism have a chance in the "new world". > Cutting the blood supply to a tumor via chemical intervention can select for cells that metastasize.> Does pancreatic, or otherwise proteolytic, enzyme supplementation contribute to metastasis? Well...maybe, but it's unlikely it could do it by simply breaking the cells loose by dissolving proteinaceous anchors.. It would have to be more complicated that that. I don't think we have the data to answer this question.> Are we supposed to abandon antiangeogenesis approaches and enzymatic treatments?> It seems to me that nearly everything is a "two edged sword". For every benefit there is a detriment. "One man's meat is another man's poison", etc.> If an anticancer regimen is comprehensive; encouraging immune stimulous, involving targeted cytotoxic elements, encouraging healthy terrain, promoting a sense of well-being, incorporating redundant backup systems..... .then I think that enzymes and antiangiogenesis have their place even if there is a statistical risk when they are considered individually.> > Mike> > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, jrrjim <jim.mcelroy10@ > wrote:> > > jrrjim <jim.mcelroy10@ >> Re: Are Pancreatic Enzymes killers?> oleander soup> Friday, April 3, 2009, 4:00 PM> > > > > Good points -- I've been taking lycene and proline (via whey isolate), green tea extract, and vitamin C all at the same time to try to inhibit angiogenesis. Am I destroying all this with the porcine enzymes?> > oleander soup, Lisa Tovar <tov_legsec@ ...> wrote:> >> > Yes, it must be figured out. I had been doing reading about Dr. Rath's theories about not breaking down the collagen matrix which would then inhibit metastases and prohibit spread of cancer (using Lysine and Proline to inhibit the breakdown.) It occurred to me that it seems that the pancreatic enzymes might be contraindicated. Coincidentally, I have e-mailed to ask him if the two approaches would conflict -- not breaking down to inhibit cancer cell establishment, or breaking down (i.e., the pancreatic enzymes dissolving materials supposedly to dissolve proteins -- would they dissolve the collagen? I await a response. I hope someone on this board has knowledge as well. I also have just started giving my husband pancreatic enzymes, but had been giving him lysine supplements in the hopes of keeping the cancer from traveling and establishing elsewhere.> >>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Rosemarie,

Your fears with regard to surgery and then chemo are well founded. I would explain it to her just as you put it in this forum.

I see nothing but good news. She is feeling well, the tumor has shrunk and her numbers are going down. Tony has a wonderful way of describing how Oleander affects cancer. He describes it as a battle. First the cancer has a hold, then as the Oleander starts to work, the cancer is first slowed down, then reversed, and then erradicated.

As long as she continues taking Oleander and Tony's protocol, I see no reason why the cancer would start growing again. Keep in mind, chemo is not the answer. We are susceptible to fear when either we or a loved one has cancer and doctors use this and sometimes intimidation to get us to follow their advice, which by the way very rarely works.

Oleander does not work like chemo. Keep in mind, Oleander is natural, and chemo is a dangerous toxic drug. There is a big difference and in no way will any remaining cancer cells become resistant to the Oleander. The same goes for the Budwig Diet. She should keep doing this.

I know that the decision is hers, but I sincerely hope that she follows your advice. Surgery can in fact, cause the cancer cells to spread and bingo! this is why chemo is required after surgery.

And I'm going to add my two cents here. It looks like the doctor is scaring her into this. Point out the positive to her. She's feeling well, her numbers are down dramatically and the tumor has shrunk. If the tumor is shrinking on its own and she is making such good progress why would the doctor want to do surgery?

 

oleander soup , Rosemarie Geiger <gypsy___rose wrote:>> > Bob,> > Believe me, I know we can't tell her what to do! I wish we could, I've feel a lot better but, the decision has to be hers. > > I just had the question about the chemo. She was on the chemo and I'm sure that that also helped to shrink the tumor along with the Oleander and the Budwig Protocol.> > I'm worried that if she continues with only the Oleander and Budwig and does not do the surgery or try anything else that the tumor will start to grow again and even faster than before. I read a post on this group that the chemo shrinks the cancer to the point of not working anymore because what is left are the most resistant cells. Won't these be immune to Oleander and Budwig as well? I was against any chemo and thought she was doing well enough with the Oleander and Budwig Program she was doing. I'm afraid that doing the chemo made things worse for her in the long run. I'm really worried now about the surgery. If she has it, I'm afraid it will spread her cancer to other parts of her body. I'm afraid she will have to do more chemo after the surgery and that this will further distress her body and the Oleander and Budwig will not be able to help her overcome the damage. I just don't know how to explain this all to her.> > Thanks for your comments.> > > Hugs,> Rose > www.orangecountypropertyservices.com> 714.549-3519 Office/Fax > 714.349-1200 Cell> Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss>