Guest guest Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Chinese Traditional Medicine , vinod3x3 wrote: > The category of diseases that have developed as common conditions in > the modern world that we call names such as CFS – FM – Candida > infection – generalized stress disorder – syndrome X – Epstein Barr > infection – etc – are actually the same disease – but as we can see > the symptom picture might be radically different for different > people. Even with each syndrome each patient might have radically > different experiences of their disease. Also at different stages of > the disease the symptom picture might change radically. There are literally dozens of symptoms that can occur with CFIDS. And the clinical picture can and usually does change radically over the years. This is what has confused a lot of Western MDs and DOs and others so much. How can one condition have so many possible manifestations? But when you start to look at it from a TCM standpoint, the same basic patterns turn up over and over and over. Imbalances in the Spleen, Liver, Kidneys, and Heart. Yes, other imbalances can and do occur with CFIDS, but those are the 4 main ones. CFIDS has been called the " great imitator " . It can mimic a lot of different medical conditions, and a CFIDS diagnosis involves ruling out these possibles. For example, leukemia, MS, and lupus. Complicating things further is that PWCs often will have FMS (Fibromyalgia Syndrome), candida infections, unresolved viral problems (especially viruses in the herpes family like Epstein Barr), hypoglycemia, chronic sore throats, various glandular problems, etc. Complicating things still further is that a case of CFIDS can become a case of MS. CFIDS has been called a " wastebasket diagnosis " . In other words, if one rules out everything else, CFIDS is the diagnosis. This simply is not true. Doctors who treat a lot of PWCs - as well as PWCs - will tell you that CFIDS has it own typical clinical picture. It's a very board picture and one that does change over the years, but it is distinct once one learns to recognize it. There are also some very typicals things that many PWCs will say. For example, if someone comes in talking about how overdoing physically (in particular aerobic exercise) makes them sicker, you may be seeing a case of CFIDS. If they talk about having to rest up to do things and then rest up afterwards to recover, this is very typical. " Alcohol makes me sicker/ feel worse " is another typical comment. (Though this doesn't preclude the use of certain tinctures unless the person is an alcoholic.) One concept that is very helpful in understanding CFIDS (as well as TCM and as well as Western medicine in general) is that people get hit the hardest where there are pre-existing and aquired weaknesses. A pre-existing weakness or tendency is something a person was born with. It usually will start to manifest very early given the wrong set of circumstances. For example, I had severe colic as a baby. And even as a child I got car sick a lot and threw up a lot. So it's not surprising that I got hit particularly hard with nausea when I developed CFIDS. At one point (and for a long time) it was my second most debilitating symptom. Other PWCs may not experience the nausea. Or, they experience it, but it's a lot milder for them than it was for me. On the other hand, they may get hit a lot harder with the pain than I did. An acquired weakness is one that develops over the years from things like lifestyle, certain infections, trauma. I had had mononucleosis (glandular fever) before I came down with CFIDS. What made the case of mono I developed after gall bladder surgery unique (for me) is that it manifested as mono-induced hepatitis. The brownish-red urine, the incredible itching, severe pains in the right side, abnormal liver function tests, etc. Because of the surgery on that area of the body, it was particularly vulnerable. (The tests for hepatitis were negative; the test for mono was positive. I've learned since that when mono manifests with hepatitis like symptoms, that it's often due to cytomegalovirus (CMV), the second leading cause of mononucleosis after Epstein Barr Virus.) One also sees this individual vulnerability thing in TCM. It's why one individual with Qi Deficiency may get hit particularly hard with the sweating thing whereas it's not as severe in another person with Qi Deficiency. (It isn't always just a case of Qi Deficiency being more severe in one person than in another. In some people it's an individual vulnerability thing.) It's why one person may develop Heart Yin Deficiency and another Liver Yin Deficiency even though Kidney Yin is sufficient. It's why in cases of Kidney Yin Deficiency (and the Kidneys not having enough Yin to supply to the rest of the body as well as to Kidneys) that one Organ gets what Yin there is whereas another is particularly shortchanged. There are individual differences. Fortunately, even though this concept of individual vulnerability isn't taught as such in TCM, the structure of TCM is such that it recognizes when these things are occuring and has effective treatments. There are different possible manifestations of Liver Yin Deficiency, Heart Yin Deficiency, and Kidney Yin Deficiency. Part of learning TCM is not only learning what the symptoms of Yin Deficiency in general are but also learning the symptoms that are typical of each Organ. For example, a weak and painful back (especially the lower back), weak and sore knees, and problems with the ears and/or hearing point to Kidney imbalance. These symptoms are general to the Kidneys and won't tell one by themselves what the particular Kidney imbalance is, but they do point to there being some kind of Kidney imbalance. This will need to be ruled in or ruled out. For example, tinnitus (a constant ringing in the ears) may be due to something besides Kidney imbalance. This may sound hopelessly complex to readers new to TCM, but once one sees an overall picture of TCM, it gets a lot clearer and easier. I want to say something about gall bladder surgery for stones (and all Western-defined medical conditions in general). Yes, the surgery removes some pressing problems - like the occurence of the severe pain, possible damage to the bile duct, possible damage to to the surrounding tissue, etc. - but unless the underlying TCM imbalance (Root) is identified and treated, it's going to manifest in other ways. The gall bladder got removed, but not the underlying imbalance that allowed and abetted the formation of the stones. If it's not identified and addressed, it's still there and manifesting in other ways. What is seen in CFIDS and the reason for the very board and changing clinical picture is that the untreated underlying imbalances keep manifesting in different ways and more severely. As the body gets weaker and gets more and more out of balance, the underlying Roots manifest in more and more ways. You can treat one symptom, and five more appear. In time the underlying imbalance becomes so severe that what was keeping a particular symptom in check no longer is enough. Another typical comment heard from people with CFIDS is that a certain treatment is no longer working or working as well. This isn't just a matter of raised expectations though that certainly is a factor too. The untreated TCM imbalances are getting worse. Healers who learn to treat CFIDS learn so much in the process that they become more skillful in treating other things as well. It's not just the additional facts that they learn. Their view of healing changes. It becomes more holistic. More physiology-oriented. How everything works together. (Not just in TCM terms but in Western terms as well.) BTW, I got a copy of Flaws's translation of Li Dong-Yuan's Treatise on the Spleen & Stomach. I've read it once, but it's the type of book I need to reread and study in detail. The concept of Yin Fire has been discussed on here before, but it needs to be discussed in more detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 For hypothyroid there are a couple of inexpensive things that work very well: Shilajit - start with a very low dose and gradually increase it. It takes time to be effective. Body temperature starts improving after about 3 months. Coconut oil: eating small quantity of cold pressed extra virgin coconut oil helps. If eating it is an issue, body massage with it is the next best thing. But wait for about 15 minutes before taking bath. Kelp: add to food a very small quantity of kelp. Sprinkle over foods like bean. Massage foot soles as many times a day as possible. Wash laminaria (kin bu) throughly then put it in a jar containing cider. Soak it for 3 weeks. Add it to bath tub water. Soak body in water containing it for 20-30 minutes. But for sustaining benefits change in food habits is a must. More bland is the food,faster is the recovery. Stir fry vegetables, porridges, soups and teas should constitute 75-80% of food. In dairy, only goat milk should be taken. It takes time but it works. My TSH was 2.7 and I had all sorts of health problems. After I changed my food, started practicing Chi Kung, stopped taking all dairy except goat milk I am much better. Stress reduction through Yoga Nidra and meditation also helps. Atul Tiwari --- vinod3x3 wrote: > > > Victoria's posting brings up many interesting points > that might be of > value to discuss as others here have similar > experiences. I have > written a long letter here dealing with yin fire > disorders and of > course this will not be of interest to everyone. > Hopefully it will > give encouragement to many – this disease is > curable. > > The category of diseases that have developed as > common conditions in > the modern world that we call names such as CFS – FM > – Candida > infection – generalized stress disorder – syndrome X > – Epstein Barr > infection – etc – are actually the same disease – > but as we can see > the symptom picture might be radically different for > different > people. Even with each syndrome each patient might > have radically > different experiences of their disease. Also at > different stages of > the disease the symptom picture might change > radically. This disease > can begin innocently and ordinarily and end up as a > horribly > debilitating disorder that spoils the life of > millions. This often > causes confusion in peoples minds – many have the > opinion that their > disease is unlike others and has it's own personal > quality that sets > them apart. This is true but there are points of > similarity in all of > the cases – this is why it is clear that these > different symptom > pictures actually represent the same general disease > patterns in > individual ways. Since this is a common disease and > one that has been > described hundreds of years ago by great physicians > with a full > understanding of the therapeutic protocols that are > necessary to > correct it – it is useful to try to understand the > issues involved. > This disease has always been common in society but > has become endemic > in certain modern populations.. > > One important point to keep in mind is that this > disease occurs in > each individual in steps and phases. The symptom > picture at one time > in life might be very different a year or ten years > later. Also of > course this disease has its cycles – certain > symptoms might be very > important at one time and not so at another – while > at the same time > perhaps another set of symptoms have taken over as > the dominant ones. > Because of this many people diagnose their disease > differently at > different times – physicians might do the same > thing. But if we pay > attention we will begin to see the underlying themes > – there is > actually great consistency within each individual as > well as within > the general category of these diseases. > > > ****** Victoria wrote = In my case (don't know about > others) the > lower my body temperature > was, the sicker I was. The two happened together. > I'm purposely > avoiding language that one caused the other because > I don't know > that there is a cause-effect influence of one on the > other. I just > know they happened at the same time.**** > > Of course the lower our body temperature the worse > the symptoms. > Human body is meant to function at a very narrow > range of temperature > and any variation in this indicates that something > has gone wrong > with the temperature regulating functions of the > body. The > temperature of healthy people does not vary very > much. And there is > good reason for this. When the temperature falls > below 98.2 over > forty of the most important enzymes responsible for > energy production > either stop functioning or they slow down in their > efficiency. This > radically slows down cellular functions. Every > metabolic function > slows down. As the temperature continues to fall > even more functions > slow until at very low temps – say below 97 the > cells are not using > energy well at all and the area surrounding the cell > becomes clogged > with phlegm and other poorly metabolized substances > and toxins. All > of these cases have phlegm as a major complication. > Phlegm is cold, > damp, viscous, and sluggish. Many symptoms in these > cases are caused > by phlegm. Since phlegm is a symptom itself and not > the > original `cause' there is no question of which of > the phlegm symptoms > are the cause. I have seen dozens of people with > temperatures below > 97.5 who are in serious levels of malfunction with > countless ever- > changing symptoms. Those with temps below 96.5 are > in serious > distress. We must remember that when the temps are > low we have > SLUGGISH metabolism – the lower the temps the more > sluggish our > metabolism is. This sluggish metabolism (whatever > the degree of > intensity) makes the maintenance of ordinary life > more and more > difficult. Until we have the case of certain CFS > patients who live > their lives isolated in their homes or even in their > beds – they > simply can not deal with the ordinary challenges of > life. > > ****Victoria wrote = When I was very sick, I was > getting readings in > the 96 F range. I > also came to dread pains in my left side because > that too signaled > that I was getting sicker. My making that comment to > my doctor was > what caused her to order a monospot test. It came > back " exposure > within the past 6 months. " It continued to show that > result for the > next two years. The Epstein Barr titer test revealed > the pattern for > chronic mononucleosis. (The mono test that reveals > " exposure within > the past 6 months " is more instructive than the ones > that give a > straight " positive " or " negative " .)***** > > People with these disorders inevitably have many > infectious > processes – these infections of course have their > own symptoms – but > they are not the cause of the disease they are also > symptoms of the > sluggish metabolism. Without going deeply into the > issue – when > metabolism slows – everything slows – including > immune functions – > combine this with phlegm and this opens the body to > potential > invasions of many types. When the defensive > mechanisms break down we > are vulnerable. Many symptoms come from these > infections and > inflammations. Look at the many symptoms commonly > seen in these > cases – Epstein Barr, disbiosis, leaky gut, Candida > infections (local > and generalized), eye-ear-nose infections, > leucorrhoea, easy to > contract epidemic diseases such as influenza, etc. > etc. Another > category of patients have inflammations, > hyperplasias, and cellular > stresses throughout the body. > > Many people will say oh I do not have that disease – > I do not have > Epstein Barr – or another will say – I do not have > that disease > because I do not have Candida infections. The form > of the infections > is not the important part – the important thing is > having chronic > infections. And chronic phlegm! None of these are > the cause of the > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 > For hypothyroid there are a couple of inexpensive > things that work very well: > > Shilajit - start with a very low dose and gradually > increase it. It takes time to be effective. Body > temperature starts improving after about 3 months. We should make a destinction between hypothyroid and hypometabolic. Hypothyroid means thyroid hormone defeciency - hypometabolic is low temps with or without any clear thyroid problems. Low metabolism without thyroid hormone defeciencies is 'Wilson's Syndrome'. These are two different disease mechanisms. One should not forget this distinction because the theraputic approach is different. Shilajit (real Shalajit-there is much fraud in the marketing of this substance)is one of the worlds great immune modulators as well as a hormonal balancer - it is stimulating to every cell in the body.But this substance is not indicated for those who have yin and yang defeciency.This substance is very HOT - therefore it must be used intelligently - one should consult an expert. For those with severe yin defeciency this should be avoided. As an example those with hypertension from yin defeciency might find this substance raises their blood pressure. The poster mentioned start with a low dose - this is one way to see if you can tolerate this substance - buy a small amount and take it in small doses (if taking from capsules break the capsule open and use partial dose)stay for at least a week on each succesive dose increase - if everything is alright go up until you are taking a full dose. If any heat symptoms develop stop immediatly. Remember that if you are someone with chronic infections you have heat - even though you may have low temps - caution. > > Coconut oil: eating small quantity of cold pressed > extra virgin coconut oil helps. If eating it is an > issue, body massage with it is the next best thing. > But > wait for about 15 minutes before taking bath. Coconut oil is very popular right now for thyroid problems - according to Ayurveda coconut is cooling therefore should be used with caution by those living in cold climates - especially those who are already cold. For those living in warm or hot climates coconut is a useful substance for many things - such as cooking - massage - hair oil - etc. Never use coconut oil that has been cooked or refined. Fresh virgin uncooked coconut oil is a wondeful substance that is good to smell and eat - and as a medium chain fatty-acid it should be in everyones diet who is not overly cold. > > Kelp: add to food a very small quantity of kelp. > Sprinkle over foods like bean. Kelp - and all sea vegetables are cold in their nature (they are very alkaline). Take such foods with warming substances to balance their energy. My wife has a relish that she makes to accompany rice that she calls jokingly 'Iodine Chutney'. Put a spoon of black (white is OK)sesame seeds in a skillet and lightly toast-put aside Soften a handful of Haziki - or steam kombu (kelp) until tender then cut in narrow spaghetti size strips. Saute 2 or three grated carrots with ginger and garlic until tender - do not fry let it cook slowly with a little water added from time to time to steam the carrot. Lightly heat (do not boil) natural soy sauce - when heated add off the heat - one tablespoon of ghee or one teaspoon of toasted sesame oil - and one tablespoon of ume (Japanese plum)vinegar - or naturally fermented rice vinegar - vinegar can be ommited - while still warm add some honey (do not heat honey). Toss seaweed, and carrot with the soy dressing - sprinkle sesame seeds over the top. Another 'iodine' recipe - Buy some naturally fermented Chinese dark soy sauce Steam kombu until tender but still firm (do not let it go mushy) Chop cooked kombu into pieces Simmer the kombu in the soy sauce that has had garlic and or ginger added. After the kombu has absorbed the soy sauce and turned dark color - strain and sprinkle with sesame seeds Use with rice as a salty condiment. Use any left over strained soy sauce as a condiment on rice and vegetables - it should be left in the fridge. > Wash laminaria (kin bu) throughly then put it in a jar > containing cider. Soak it for 3 weeks. Add it to bath > tub water. Soak body in water containing it for 20-30 > minutes. I haven't heard of this - remember the warnings about kelp it is cold in nature. Did you mean cider vinegar or cider? My suggestion when taking the bath is to drink a cup of hot ginger tea before. If suffering severe fatigue do not take very hot baths - those with chronic fatigue and or severe reactive states should protect the jing at all costs - this means do not sweat excessively. Also oil the body after with warming oils. Another approach to adding herbs to bath water is to apply warm natured oils before bathing and do not wash this oil off after bathing - the oil captures the herbal substance and holds it on the skin - if this is not completely washed off the herb will continue to be absorbed into the skin after the bath - plus the oil is soothing to the skin. One could achieve a similar effect by making kelp oil. Simmer kelp with a little fresh ginger in water until the kelp gets soft - strain kelp. Add this kelp tea to a quart of organic sesame oil and gently simmer until all water has evaporated. Use this oil for massage before bath. A teaspoon of this oil can be added to vegetables or soups with soy sauce. > > But for sustaining benefits change in food habits is a > must. More bland is the food,faster is the recovery. > Stir fry vegetables, porridges, soups and teas should > constitute 75-80% of food. In dairy, only goat milk > should be taken. It takes time but it works. My TSH > was 2.7 and I had all sorts of health problems. After > I changed my food, started practicing Chi Kung, > stopped taking all dairy except goat milk I am much > better. What this poster says here is very important. Mild or bland diet is essential for anyone suffering from extreme stress disorders. Nothing stresses an already overstressed person more than bad food and drink. Bob Flaws' book 'Arisal of the Clear' goes into this issue without being over technical. > > Stress reduction through Yoga Nidra and meditation > also > helps. There are hundreds of stress reduction techniques - pick one and stay with it. Slow, quiet, stilling techniques like setting meditation work well for those with anxiety and tensions. If the mind is very restless and one can not set quietly then do slow moving exercises such as Tai Chi. I have had a few mails asking where I can be reached. I am a retired Endocrinologist. I am busy now on several writing projects - including a biography of my father - who is a physician of South India who does not use medicines to heal disease. I was born into a traditional Ayurvedic medical family. So with both a traditional and modern education I have had a passion to integrate the two. I studied TCM not from a clinical perspective but from the perspective of the Taoist adepts who use TCM theory for achieving high levels of physical, mental, and spriritual attainment. I live part of the year in California where I have lived for forty years and another part in Kerala my birth place. I am teaching now in both California and India. I would not be interested in discussing personal medical issues in the Internet - medicine can not be properly practiced long distance. Generalized discussion is much different than trying to resolve specific cases. Plus I believe with the Yogis, Taoist adepts,and my father that one should resolve ones own health issues. I am sure most monitors of this group who are patients can tell you of the many practioners (perhaps from many disciplines)that they have seen who were not able to fully solve the case. This is because even if seeing a master physician still 90 percent of all the work will have to be done by ourselves. The more insight we have into our disease the greater chance we have to heal it. The greatest asset we can have in the healing process is the understanding that we ourselves are responsible for our own disease and health - leaving it to another might be helpful but in the end will not give true health. I have been a physician for forty years and believe that almost all healing is self-healing. Example lifestyle is much more important in healing disease than truck loads of medicine. Medicines and other medical protocals are aids to recovery but they can not by themselves cure chronic disease processes. Symptom oriented medicine as practiced by most practioners traditional and modern are very useful but just managing symptoms is not disease recovery. Radiant health is the goal not simple coping with symptoms. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Chinese Traditional Medicine , vinod3x3 wrote: > Coconut oil is very popular right now for thyroid problems - > according to Ayurveda coconut is cooling therefore should be used > with caution by those living in cold climates - especially those who > are already cold. For those living in warm or hot climates coconut is > a useful substance for many things - such as cooking - massage - hair > oil - etc. Never use coconut oil that has been cooked or refined. > Fresh virgin uncooked coconut oil is a wondeful substance that is > good to smell and eat - and as a medium chain fatty-acid it should be > in everyones diet who is not overly cold. All references I can find on coconut energetics says that coconut is either neutral (meaning not hot, warm, cool or cold), or warming (Paul Pritchford's book:). >perspective of the > Taoist adepts who use TCM theory for achieving high levels of > physical, mental, and spriritual attainment. I live part of the year > in California where I have lived for forty years and another part in > Kerala my birth place. I am teaching now in both California and India. > I would not be interested in discussing personal medical issues in > the Internet - medicine can not be properly practiced long distance. > Generalized discussion is much different than trying to resolve > specific cases. Plus I believe with the Yogis, Taoist adepts,and my > father that one should resolve ones own health issues. I am sure most > monitors of this group who are patients can tell you of the many > practioners (perhaps from many disciplines)that they have seen who > were not able to fully solve the case. This is because even if seeing > a master physician still 90 percent of all the work will have to be > done by ourselves. The more insight we have into our disease the > greater chance we have to heal it. The greatest asset we can have in > the healing process is the understanding that we ourselves are > responsible for our own disease and health - leaving it to another > might be helpful but in the end will not give true health. I have > been a physician for forty years and believe that almost all healing > is self-healing. Example lifestyle is much more important in healing > disease than truck loads of medicine. Medicines and other medical > protocals are aids to recovery but they can not by themselves cure > chronic disease processes. Symptom oriented medicine as practiced by > most practioners traditional and modern are very useful but just > managing symptoms is not disease recovery. Radiant health is the goal > not simple coping with symptoms. Radiant health (to quote Teeguarden) may be the goal, but many people due to circumstances beyond their control (such as inadequate jing inherited from parents) might have a hard time acheiving such results no matter how hard they try. Stating that people have only themselves to blame for ill health could make many who cannot reach this goal through diet,herbs and/or energy healing feel inadequate in their attempts. I feel that the issue of health is too complex to state that everyone has total control of health through behavior (though I am not discounting this entirely by any means). The Western world and now unfortunately much of the third world is polluted with chemicals in air, water, and earth which are quite beyond the control of individuals seeking good health and probably frequently are the cause of diseases, especially in those who have inherited weaker constitutions. While I agree with many of your insights, I still feel that there are people who will be unable to achieve " radiant health " using self healing alone. I believe it is important that these people should not feel less than whole in their efforts to achieve good health, even if they cannot succeed without the help of " medicine " . Many people say that health may also be the healing of the spirit, even if the body is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 If cold nature of a food or a supplement is an issue then it should not be used during winter, summer is the best time to use it. Beans over which I sprinkle a small quantity of Kelp already have ginger and garlic added to it during cooking. That I am sure takes care of its cooling effects( Similarly Tofu's cooling nature is to be neutralized by generous addition of garlic and ginger during it's cooking). I meant cider vinegar not cider. Additionally the no no foods for Kapha dosha in Ayurveda apply to hypothyroid also and converse. But this is based on my personal experience I am not sure if it is other's experience too. What Ayurveda recommends for hypothyroid? Good thing about Ayurvedic formulae as compared to TCM formulae is that if they do not match with the disease probably the associated damage is less. TCM formulae may do much more damage in such a case. So TCM is not very much suited for self medication, though Ayurveda is somewhat more forgiving. Study of Ayurveda and TCM is a good investment. Since one has to carry this body before it finally falls. And modern medicine does not let it fall so easily but leaves you only half living. Half of you is permanently disabled, its dead. Atul Tiwari --- vinod3x3 wrote: > > > > For hypothyroid there are a couple of inexpensive > > things that work very well: > > > > Shilajit - start with a very low dose and > gradually > > increase it. It takes time to be effective. Body > > temperature starts improving after about 3 months. > > We should make a destinction between hypothyroid and > hypometabolic. > Hypothyroid means thyroid hormone defeciency - > hypometabolic is low > temps with or without any clear thyroid problems. > Low metabolism > without thyroid hormone defeciencies is 'Wilson's > Syndrome'. These > are two different disease mechanisms. One should not > forget this > distinction because the theraputic approach is > different. > > Shilajit (real Shalajit-there is much fraud in the > marketing of this > substance)is one of the worlds great immune > modulators as well as a > hormonal balancer - it is stimulating to every cell > in the body.But > this substance is not indicated for those who have > yin and yang > defeciency.This substance is very HOT - therefore it > must be used > intelligently - one should consult an expert. For > those with severe > yin defeciency this should be avoided. As an example > those with > hypertension from yin defeciency might find this > substance raises > their blood pressure. The poster mentioned start > with a low dose - > this is one way to see if you can tolerate this > substance - buy a > small amount and take it in small doses (if taking > from capsules > break the capsule open and use partial dose)stay for > at least a week > on each succesive dose increase - if everything is > alright go up > until you are taking a full dose. If any heat > symptoms develop stop > immediatly. Remember that if you are someone with > chronic infections > you have heat - even though you may have low temps - > caution. > > > > Coconut oil: eating small quantity of cold pressed > > extra virgin coconut oil helps. If eating it is an > > issue, body massage with it is the next best > thing. > > But > > wait for about 15 minutes before taking bath. > > Coconut oil is very popular right now for thyroid > problems - > according to Ayurveda coconut is cooling therefore > should be used > with caution by those living in cold climates - > especially those who > are already cold. For those living in warm or hot > climates coconut is > a useful substance for many things - such as cooking > - massage - hair > oil - etc. Never use coconut oil that has been > cooked or refined. > Fresh virgin uncooked coconut oil is a wondeful > substance that is > good to smell and eat - and as a medium chain > fatty-acid it should be > in everyones diet who is not overly cold. > > > > Kelp: add to food a very small quantity of kelp. > > Sprinkle over foods like bean. > > Kelp - and all sea vegetables are cold in their > nature (they are very > alkaline). Take such foods with warming substances > to balance their > energy. My wife has a relish that she makes to > accompany rice that > she calls jokingly 'Iodine Chutney'. > > Put a spoon of black (white is OK)sesame seeds in a > skillet and > lightly toast-put aside > Soften a handful of Haziki - or steam kombu (kelp) > until tender then > cut in narrow spaghetti size strips. > Saute 2 or three grated carrots with ginger and > garlic until tender - > do not fry let it cook slowly with a little water > added from time to > time to steam the carrot. > Lightly heat (do not boil) natural soy sauce - when > heated add off > the heat - one tablespoon of ghee or one teaspoon of > toasted sesame > oil - and one tablespoon of ume (Japanese > plum)vinegar - or naturally > fermented rice vinegar - vinegar can be ommited - > while still warm > add some honey (do not heat honey). > Toss seaweed, and carrot with the soy dressing - > sprinkle sesame > seeds over the top. > > Another 'iodine' recipe - > > Buy some naturally fermented Chinese dark soy sauce > Steam kombu until tender but still firm (do not let > it go mushy) > Chop cooked kombu into pieces > Simmer the kombu in the soy sauce that has had > garlic and or ginger > added. After the kombu has absorbed the soy sauce > and turned dark > color - strain and sprinkle with sesame seeds > Use with rice as a salty condiment. > Use any left over strained soy sauce as a condiment > on rice and > vegetables - it should be left in the fridge. > > > > > Wash laminaria (kin bu) throughly then put it in a > jar > > containing cider. Soak it for 3 weeks. Add it to > bath > > tub water. Soak body in water containing it for > 20-30 > > minutes. > > I haven't heard of this - remember the warnings > about kelp it is cold > in nature. Did you mean cider vinegar or cider? My > suggestion when > taking the bath is to drink a cup of hot ginger tea > before. If > suffering severe fatigue do not take very hot baths > - those with > chronic fatigue and or severe reactive states should > protect the jing > at all costs - this means do not sweat excessively. > Also oil the body > after with warming oils. Another approach to adding > herbs to bath > water is to apply warm natured oils before bathing > and do not wash > this oil off after bathing - the oil captures the > herbal substance > and holds it on the skin - if this is not completely > washed off the > herb will continue to be absorbed into the skin > after the bath - plus > the oil is soothing to the skin. > One could achieve a similar effect by making kelp > oil. > Simmer kelp with a little fresh ginger in water > until the kelp gets > soft - strain kelp. > Add this kelp tea to a quart of organic sesame oil > and gently simmer > until all water has evaporated. > Use this oil for massage before bath. > A teaspoon of this oil can be added to vegetables or > soups with soy > sauce. > > > > But for sustaining benefits change in food habits > is a > > must. More bland is the food,faster is the > recovery. > > Stir fry vegetables, porridges, soups and teas > should > > constitute 75-80% of food. In dairy, only goat > milk > > should be taken. It takes time but it works. My > TSH > > was 2.7 and I had all sorts of health problems. > After > > I changed my food, started practicing Chi Kung, > > stopped taking all dairy except goat milk I am > much > > better. > > What this poster says here is very important. Mild > or bland diet is > essential for anyone suffering from extreme stress > disorders. Nothing > stresses an already overstressed person more than > bad food and drink. > === message truncated === Celebrate 's 10th Birthday! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday./netrospective/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 > > All references I can find on coconut energetics says that coconut is > either neutral (meaning not hot, warm, cool or cold), or warming (Paul > Pritchford's book:). One weak point in Pritchford¡¦s book is that because he has taken his information from various sources without making distinctions in the different aspects of a particular food the descriptions of food energetics is often confused and contradictory.. In his listing for coconut he makes several contradictory comments ¡V he says that coconut is warm in one sentence and in another he says that coconut cures ¡¥summer heat vexations. There are several other contradictions. What does this mean? What it means is that different products of the coconut have different energetics ¡V this is true of many foods. The traditional experience of coconut makes this observation. Coconut flesh is neutral in it¡¦s energetics ¡V coconut water is cold in its energetics (throughout the tropics people drink coconut water to refresh and cool themselves during the hot season-it is considered equal in it¡¦s ability to cool the body to substances like sugarcane juice and watermelon- it is impossible for coconut water to warm the body it has no warming quality at all-it is a cool sweet liquid ¡V this is yin in nature ¡V impossible to warm us in any way) ¡V coconut oil is also very yin and has been used as a cooling substance internally and externally for thousands of years. Many famous medicines for overheating conditions are based on coconut oil. Coconut flesh which has had the oil squeezed out of it is warm (protein content) and is often used as a food in porridge etc. for building strength in children and other people. So here we have the same food that produces products that are very different even opposite in their energetics. This is very common and many plants have different qualities in their different parts. This is very common in medicinal plants where the roots or the bark as an example will have a powerful concentrated yang quality and the leaves or fruit have a very yin quality. Then even within the parts certain parts will have different qualities as in those medicinal fruits who¡¦s skin or peel will have opposite qualities from the flesh or the seed. One should be clear about one is talking about. I was raised in Kerala 'the land of coconuts' - we have used this product for thousands of years for food, medicine, and cosmetics. Coconut flesh is considered to be neutral in its nature since the yin oil and yang protein balance each other. All oil is yin in its nature since it is expansive and because of its water retention qualities and weight increasing ability. Of the popularly used cooking oils in Kerala Gingily (sesame)is considered the warmest, Groundnut (peanut)is medium in its energetics, and coconut is considered cool in nature. We have dozens of medical oils that use this energetic for therapeutic purposes. It is mainly used in medicated oils for various Pitta (heat) conditions. Combined with Chandan (sandalwood)this creates a powerful substance for using on patients with fevers - especially epidemic type conditions In Kerala the specialty of the traditional Ayurvedic Panchakarma therapists is oil therapy - coconut is used for over heated patients and sesame and mustard for cold patients. Throughout the tropical regions of the world the majority of traditional men, women, and children oil their heads with coconut oil to keep the head cool in the hot sun ¡V they have been doing this for thousands of years. > Radiant health (to quote Teeguarden) may be the goal, but many people > due to circumstances beyond their control (such as inadequate jing > inherited from parents) might have a hard time achieving such results > no matter how hard they try. I am sorry that you have misunderstood my point ¡V but since this poster has misunderstood I will try to clarify my views. I in no way implied that there is anyone at fault in this process of disease, health, or recovery. The fact is that the great majority of humans will live with deteriorating processes and will die of severe chronic disease that have possibly been developing before birth. This is not their fault - they are victims of many pathways leading to dysfunction - I was raised in a place where I saw people subjected to the horrors of their genetic and social inheritance with no personal fault of their own. This is one of the reasons why I went into medicine. Stating that people have only themselves > to blame for ill health could make many who cannot reach this goal > through diet,herbs and/or energy healing feel inadequate in their „« attempts. As I said I did not say that anyone must feel guilty about having disease. But the fact is that few people will recover from their disease. And only those who accept responsibility for their disease and do something about it have a chance to recover. This is true of life in general ¡V I was born into an ancient culture yet was always fascinated by the modern world and realized at one point that I wanted to live in the modern western society. I had to do all of the personal work to achieve this goal against tremendous odds ¡V yet I had the motivation that was necessary and achieved my goals. Several of my friends and family members also wanted what I wanted yet they did not have the motivation that was necessary ¡V many of those people felt jealous about me and they still do ¡V when I go home they show this in many ways. They have a sense of disappointment about their lives. The fact is that this is the way it is no one is to blame. Many never get the opportunity to realize their goals. As Thoreau said ¡§Most people live lives of quiet desperation¡¨. We must live in the real world and understand all of the phenomena without any romance or false sentiment. By the way ¡§Radiant Health¡¨ is a concept of the Taoists it refers to the goal of life. According to this understanding ¡§Radiant Health¡¨ is the highest achievement for human beings. This is also related to the Taoist concept of ¡¥The Immortalists¡¨. The Immortalists are those who achieve radiant health and therefore escape pain and suffering. „« I feel that the issue of health is too complex to state > that everyone has total control of health through behavior (though I > am not discounting this entirely by any means). The Western world and > now unfortunately much of the third world is polluted with chemicals > in air, water, and earth which are quite beyond the control of > individuals seeking good health and probably frequently are the cause > of diseases, especially in those who have inherited weaker „« constitutions. We each and everyone are existing within a real context regardless of all of our idealism. The healthiest person in the world faces the same environmental challenges that an unhealthy person does ¡V they just deal better with the challenge. Majority are born with deficits of various kinds ¡V but only those who have the mind set to do something about the challenges and limitations have the chance to solve the problems.. It is my vision that we are each of us responsible for the problems of our personal lives and of society in general. You have mentioned many things that contribute to disease. My question is if we do not understand it is we who are polluting our world and making it uninhabitable and creating disease in ourselves then how can the problem be solved? Thank goodness that there are individuals who have accepted the responsibility and are trying to solve the problems- personal and social. We must deal with the givens without any blame giving. Some blame their culture for their deficiencies ¡V others blame their parents ¡V others blame God. This is not a correct approach. Even if we can trace genetic weakness in our family it is we who must deal with this problem to the best of our ability or not. To acknowledge problems must not become an excuse for not achieving. I myself was born with genetic challenge because Thyroid disease runs in my Mother¡¦s family. But through the genius of my father this was not an absolute obstacle and I have lived a life of compensation simply because my father never accepted the limitations of this disease and did everything in his power to solve it not just for me but for my sister and Mother and many other people ¡V he even had to go against many of his most cherished ideals to achieve this but he did it. We must not use our ¡¥inherited weaker constitution¡¦ as an excuse for not living to the best of our ability. I have exactly the viewpoint I have on this issue because it is clear to me that all are born with challenges and those who overcome these problems through self understanding and self realization are the successful ones. Your argument is not strong because if we took the position that we should not challenge ourselves and others to do what they can for fear that someone might feel guilty then we would forever be trapped in the chaos of suffering with no hope of recovery. I do not accept the argument that we should pollute the world and our bodies with no sense of responsibility for ourselves. Many spend their whole lives chasing after physicians, medicines, and therapies to help them with their suffering¡V they travel the whole world (Kerala is full of westerners seeking health in Ayurveda these days) ¡V they spend fortunes. Some get some benefit some do not. If those same people were to expend this energy and money in more self responsible ways possibly they would be able to solve their problems themselves. Very few actually will recover. There are many people at this group who could tell their stories of how they have struggled to recover and have not been successful . This group is monitored by a person who has worked hard and long to come to an understanding of her disease. There are many such here. These are the people who I post for. Those who are seriously trying to recover their health through understanding the nature of their disease. I have been studying the process of disease and it¡¦s solution for my whole life and have some real (not theoretical) experience of people who have achieved in that direction. Many people have fully 100% recovered their health after suffering long years of disease. Ron Teeguarden was mentioned ¡V he had many years of CFS and has now achieved high levels of health and vitality. I am a member of an antiaging support group almost everyone in our group has achieved high levels of health most after recovery from serious disease processes like cancer, mental problems, CFS, FM, etc.. I joined this group(Chinese Healing) because I liked the idea of individuals working to educate themselves on the disease process and how to solve their own problems. I would like to encourage all such people because it is these who have a chance at recovery. If anyone feels guilty or inadequate as a result of having disease ¡V please take hope as this is a common mental symptom of having chronic disease ¡V naturally if you overcome even some level from this disease these symptoms will vanish. Guilt is not an appropriate response to disease it is no ones fault ¡V we have simply manifested with disease in pure innocence. Inadequate is a different issue as many are truly inadequate to the goals they are trying to achieve. This is the nature of disease ¡V it makes us less functional in some way or another. We must never lose our instincts to be well, whole, competent, healthy, happy, etc. otherwise we truly are lost. So as long as we have disease we will feel everything from inadequate to despairing ¡V these emotions are simply the emotions that surround disease - pain, suffering, fatigue, depression, fear ¡V naturally make one feel inadequate. Do not look for scapegoats ¡V do not feel picked on by those who would like to encourage you to come out of all of that. „« While I agree with many of your insights, I still feel > that there are people who will be unable to achieve " radiant health " > using self healing alone. I believe it is important that these people > should not feel less than whole in their efforts to achieve good > health, even if they cannot succeed without the help of " medicine " . > Many people say that health may also be the healing of the spirit, „« even if the body is All of this I agree with. I am a physician and as a physician one of the most frustrating things I see are the many people who are looking for magic in medicine ¡V I know for a fact that there is no magic in medicine ¡V no magic bullets ¡V and those patients who see the physician with the idea that the doctor will give them some magic elixir that will solve all of their problems is simply unrealistic. If there were such physicians they would be flooded by those coming to get some of that elixir. Life does not work this way and I would like for every patient to understand that. Most will not recover - I am always talking to those in the minority who I believe have real potential to recover. All of the rest I only have deep empathy for. When I look around the world I see horrible suffering. World is full of doctors, hospitals, mental institutions, prisons, etc. to attempt to deal with the mental and physical distress of many millions of people. We must accept that as it is ¡V but if we have any chance at all to avoid all of those institutions then we should take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Many have questions about Wilson's protocol. Which well they should. I know one of the leading thyroid doctors in the world. He has used Wilson protocol on many patients and says that only about 20% get benefit. Now after my suggestions he has improved his selection of the cases that he will use the Wilson protocol on and is getting better result. First T3 therapy as advocated by Dr. Wilson should ONLY be attempted on those patients who do not have Thyroid gland problems - with no abnormalities on their Thyroid tests - and who nevertheless have hypometabolism problems as determined by symptoms and temperature. The majority of hypometabolic people will have sideeffects from this therapy - even dangerous sideeffects. Therefore it should only be used under the supervision of a very experienced practitioner. I am not advocating the use of this therapy - I am trying to advise those who are determined to give it a try. One of the most important issues to understand is that those with yin deficiency will have great problems taking extra T3. There are cases of people having fatal hypertension crises using T3 therapy. Anyone with the slightest hint or suspicion of heart disease should not take T3. Those with Angina will have almost instant angina pain after taking T3. One poster asked if T3 therapy can damage the kidney jing – from the above it is clear that it can. Those with severe yin deficiencies can not take stimulation because the body is not prepared to deal with this stimulation. Many yang herbs do the same thing they over stimulate a body that is underfunctioning. This is why in TCM therapy it is impossible to give powerful energy producing substances without first supporting the yin which will allow the cells to function at a higher level. Guggal is much more than a stimulant it is an adaptogen in the same class as ginseng, notoginseng, eleurothococus, etc. these substances are adaptogens which balance and harmonize many functions of the body and should never be confused with CNS stimulants. In Ayurveda Guggul is often used in hypometabolic problems - just as shilajit is. But these substances are hot in their nature therefore potential problems for yin deficient individuals. The `thyroid' formula that Dr. Wilson uses is very simple in its concept it is guugal the main therapeutic agent balanced by blue flag which balances the energy of the Guggul and keeps it from creating feelings of overheating like anxiety – seaweed is added for the same reason and of course to provide small amounts of iodine (seaweed in these small doses does not make the body cold) – there is no thyroid hormone production without iodine.. There are hundreds of herbal formulas to benefit thyroid functioning. One reason why Guggul works in these cases is because it stimulates the cells to release the RT3 from the receptor sites – this is the same thing that T3 does in Dr. Wilson's protocol. So in other words this formula is supposed to mimic a mild T3 dose to create the therapeutic effect of releasing blocked RT3 – for those with mild RT3 issues this might be enough to help somewhat. But this approach as exemplified in all of Dr. Wilson's protocol is not the answer for the vast majority of patients. " " " If cold nature of a food or a supplement is an issue then it should not be used during winter, summer is the best time to use it. " " " Cold foods should not be taken by hypometabolic people especially in the winter. Also mild warming (not hot) substances should be used with food. Many herbs when used properly will warm the body. For hypometabolic people these herbs should be used daily (especially during the cold season) ginger, garlic, cumin, cinnamon, astragulus, etc. The motto of hypometabolic people shoud be 'warm and cozy'. " " " " Beans over which I sprinkle a small quantity of Kelp already have ginger and garlic added to it during cooking. That I am sure takes care of its cooling effects( Similarly Tofu's cooling nature is to be neutralized by generous addition of garlic and ginger during it's cooking). " " " If one uses cooling substances for some therapeutic effect or another then hypometabolic people should balance these substances with warming substances. Tofu is too cold for most hypometabolic people in the winter even if warming substances are taken. One nice recipe for hypometabolic people who feel they need tofu for its protein content - this is a good summer recipe– Take a couple of tablespoonfuls of medium miso and blend it with one tablespoon of sesame butter, one tablespoon of barley malt (or maple syrup) and some garlic and ginger. Spread this over a block of soft tofu – broil this under the broiler until the miso bubbles. Delicious! " " " " Additionally the no no foods for Kapha dosha in Ayurveda apply to hypothyroid also and converse. But this is based on my personal experience I am not sure if it is other's experience too. " " " " This is the same issue as discussed above. Anything that is cold, heavy, sweet, oily, overly salty, sluggish or concentrating in its nature is potentially harmful for hypometabolic patients. " " " Good thing about Ayurvedic formulae as compared to TCM formulae is that if they do not match with the disease probably the associated damage is less. TCM formulae may do much more damage in such a case. So TCM is not very much suited for self medication, though Ayurveda is somewhat more forgiving. " " " " On these comments I would make this observation. Actually the issues are the same in Ayurveda and TCM – in both systems there are two basic categories of medicines – tonics and medicinal – tonic formulas can be used by a broad range of people (in fact the most famous formulas are suited to almost everyone) without reference to doctors – most of those great tonic formulas can be used for a lifetime without sideeffects by most people. Medicinal formulas should only be used under the supervision of an expert. Many powerful medicinal herbs can only be used in a limited way for a limited time and the physician has to always be alert to sideeffects with these formulas. The idea one often hears that herbs do not have side effects is pure nonsense – many powerful herbs if not used properly can make you ill or even kill you. Since we have been discussing hypometabolism – using that example – many hypometabolic patients are extremely sensitive to the effects of herbs – and in the case of yin deficiency this can be harmful or dangerous if proper care is not taken. .. " " " " When I saw Wilson no such options were available to his patients. In my experience sometimes the side effects of SRT3 were quite powerful and uncomfortable, and I realize now that the long term use of it unbalanced my body. It took TCM and a change to prescription natural thyroid hormone to bring about better health (the problem I had was finding a doctor willing to do this). " " " " " The problems that this poster mentions are common experiences for those on T3 therapy. One point mentioned there – many with true thyroid problems like Hashimoto's will benefit greatly by taking natural hormones like Armour's – I have been taking this type of substance for 50 years – this substance in my opinion is the only substance that should be used for Thyroid hormone defeciency. Natural thyroid hormone has turned around the lives of millions. I have a strong prejudice against the use of synthetic hormones. One thing to keep in mind – one reason why there is an epedemic of hypometabolism is because thyroid defeciency is a weak point in we humans. In the so called `thyroid belts' of the world a large percentage of the population have mild to severe thyroid disorder. Many times this is because of chronic iodine defeciency – but for many like in my family this is a true genetic problem that runs in about half of my mother's family members. Natural thyroid corrects this perfectly – especially if we take care of our general health issues. For those with thyroid defeciency they will have to walk the `straight and narrow' throughout life to avoid problems. I know many people born with various genetic hormone issues who live perfectly normal lives - under proper therapy. The further problem mentioned about physicians are a huge problem and are very important to understand. In my experience the MAJORITY of physicians – Allopathic, Ayurvedic, TCM, etc. – are not qualified to see patients – sorry but I have been unable to come to any other conclusion. So this puts the patient in a very difficult position. At the very least the patient should be alert as to whether the therapy they are receiving is causing sideeffects. Ideally the patient will have broad knowledge of their disease and the therapies used for it – so they can fully participate with the doctor so as to avoid problems. And of course I have expressed my prejudice about this issue by urging all to do everything they can to solve the problems on their own. For many millions of patients with chronic disease going to the doctor becomes an expensive disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Coconut oil is really cooling. This winter one evening I massaged my body with coconut oil and then had a warm water bath after about 15 minutes. After about one hour I felt so chilled especially in my legs that I decided that during winter I will not have anymore of it. But I have a question. All my friends from Karnataka used to apply coconut oil on their body before taking bath on Makar Sankranti (14th January). Is this practice purely religous? But most of religous practices in India have generally some reason behind them. Or 14th January in Karnataks is not winter. So, during winter sesame oil should be the right oil to use. Which one, black or white sesame seed oil? because they are pretty different. What about it's impact on hypothyroid? Atul Tiwari --- vinod3x3 wrote: > > > > > > > All references I can find on coconut energetics > says that coconut > is > > either neutral (meaning not hot, warm, cool or > cold), or warming > (Paul > > Pritchford's book:). > > One weak point in Pritchford¡¦s book is that because > he has taken his > information from various sources without making > distinctions in the > different aspects of a particular food the > descriptions of food > energetics is often confused and contradictory.. In > his listing for > coconut he makes several contradictory comments ¡V > he says that > coconut is warm in one sentence and in another he > says that coconut > cures ¡¥summer heat vexations. There are several > other contradictions. > What does this mean? What it means is that different > products of the > coconut have different energetics ¡V this is true of > many foods. The > traditional experience of coconut makes this > observation. Coconut > flesh is neutral in it¡¦s energetics ¡V coconut > water is cold in its > energetics (throughout the tropics people drink > coconut water to > refresh and cool themselves during the hot season-it > is considered > equal in it¡¦s ability to cool the body to > substances like sugarcane > juice and watermelon- it is impossible for coconut > water to warm the > body it has no warming quality at all-it is a cool > sweet liquid ¡V > this is yin in nature ¡V impossible to warm us in > any way) ¡V coconut > oil is also very yin and has been used as a cooling > substance > internally and externally for thousands of years. > Many famous > medicines for overheating conditions are based on > coconut oil. > Coconut flesh which has had the oil squeezed out of > it is warm > (protein content) and is often used as a food in > porridge etc. for > building strength in children and other people. So > here we have the > same food that produces products that are very > different even > opposite in their energetics. This is very common > and many plants > have different qualities in their different parts. > This is very > common in medicinal plants where the roots or the > bark as an example > will have a powerful concentrated yang quality and > the leaves or > fruit have a very yin quality. Then even within the > parts certain > parts will have different qualities as in those > medicinal fruits > who¡¦s skin or peel will have opposite qualities > from the flesh or the > seed. > > One should be clear about one is talking about. I > was raised in > Kerala 'the land of coconuts' - we have used this > product for > thousands of years for food, medicine, and > cosmetics. Coconut flesh > is considered to be neutral in its nature since the > yin oil and yang > protein balance each other. All oil is yin in its > nature since it is > expansive and because of its water retention > qualities and weight > increasing ability. Of the popularly used cooking > oils in Kerala > Gingily (sesame)is considered the warmest, Groundnut > (peanut)is > medium in its energetics, and coconut is considered > cool in nature. > We have dozens of medical oils that use this > energetic for > therapeutic purposes. It is mainly used in medicated > oils for various > Pitta (heat) conditions. Combined with Chandan > (sandalwood)this > creates a powerful substance for using on patients > with fevers - > especially epidemic type conditions In Kerala the > specialty of the > traditional Ayurvedic Panchakarma therapists is oil > therapy - coconut > is used for over heated patients and sesame and > mustard for cold > patients. Throughout the tropical regions of the > world the majority > of traditional men, women, and children oil their > heads with coconut > oil to keep the head cool in the hot sun ¡V they > have been doing this > for thousands of years. > > > > Radiant health (to quote Teeguarden) may be the > goal, but many > people > > due to circumstances beyond their control (such as > inadequate jing > > inherited from parents) might have a hard time > achieving such > results > > no matter how hard they try. > > I am sorry that you have misunderstood my point ¡V > but since this > poster has misunderstood I will try to clarify my > views. I in no way > implied that there is anyone at fault in this > process of disease, > health, or recovery. The fact is that the great > majority of humans > will live with deteriorating processes and will die > of severe chronic > disease that have possibly been developing before > birth. This is not > their fault - they are victims of many pathways > leading to > dysfunction - I was raised in a place where I saw > people subjected to > the horrors of their genetic and social inheritance > with no personal > fault of their own. This is one of the reasons why I > went into > medicine. > > Stating that people have only themselves > > to blame for ill health could make many who cannot > reach this goal > > through diet,herbs and/or energy healing feel > inadequate in their > „« attempts. > > > As I said I did not say that anyone must feel guilty > about having > disease. But the fact is that few people will > recover from their > disease. And only those who accept responsibility > for their disease > and do something about it have a chance to recover. > This is true of > life in general ¡V I was born into an ancient > culture yet was always > fascinated by the modern world and realized at one > point that I > wanted to live in the modern western society. I had > to do all of the > personal work to achieve this goal against > tremendous odds ¡V yet I > had the motivation that was necessary and achieved > my goals. Several > of my friends and family members also wanted what I > wanted yet they > did not have the motivation that was necessary ¡V > many of those people > felt jealous about me and they still do ¡V when I go > home they show > this in many ways. They have a sense of > disappointment about their > lives. The fact is that this is the way it is no one > is to blame. > Many never get the opportunity to realize their > goals. As Thoreau > said ¡§Most people live lives of quiet > desperation¡¨. We must live in > the real world and understand all of the phenomena > without any > romance or false sentiment. > > By the way ¡§Radiant Health¡¨ is a concept of the > Taoists it refers to > the goal of life. According to this understanding > ¡§Radiant Health¡¨ is > the highest achievement for human beings. This is > also related to the > Taoist concept of ¡¥The Immortalists¡¨. The > Immortalists are those who > === message truncated === Celebrate 's 10th Birthday! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday./netrospective/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 " When I look around the world I see horrible suffering. World is full of doctors, hospitals, mental institutions, prisons, etc. to attempt to deal with the mental and physical distress of many millions of people. We must accept that as it is but if we have any chance at all to avoid all of those institutions then we should take it. " Indeed. I live next to a People's Hospital and a block from the provincial TCM hospital, but hope never to enter either of those institutions. We are blessed with this list. Regards, Jack " The ills of the flesh are unknown to the man who absorbs and distributes prana with accuracy. " http://www.geocities.com/mojavecowboy/clinicgz.htm Guangzhou Clinic, China Celebrate 's 10th Birthday! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday./netrospective/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Chinese Traditional Medicine , vinod3x3 wrote: > > > > > > > All references I can find on coconut energetics says that coconut > is > > either neutral (meaning not hot, warm, cool or cold), or warming > (Paul > > Pritchford's book:). > > One weak point in Pritchford¡|s book is that because he has taken his > information from various sources without making distinctions in the > different aspects of a particular food the descriptions of food > energetics is often confused and contradictory.. In his listing for > coconut he makes several contradictory comments ¡V he says that > coconut is warm in one sentence and in another he says that coconut > cures ¡¥summer heat vexations. There are several other contradictions. > What does this mean? What it means is that different products of the > coconut have different energetics ¡V this is true of many foods. The > traditional experience of coconut makes this observation. Coconut > flesh is neutral in it¡|s energetics ¡V coconut water is cold in its > energetics (throughout the tropics people drink coconut water to > refresh and cool themselves during the hot season-it is considered > equal in it¡|s ability to cool the body to substances like sugarcane > juice and watermelon- it is impossible for coconut water to warm the > body it has no warming quality at all-it is a cool sweet liquid ¡V > this is yin in nature ¡V impossible to warm us in any way) ¡V coconut > oil is also very yin and has been used as a cooling substance > internally and externally for thousands of years. Many famous > medicines for overheating conditions are based on coconut oil. > Coconut flesh which has had the oil squeezed out of it is warm > (protein content) and is often used as a food in porridge etc. for > building strength in children and other people. So here we have the > same food that produces products that are very different even > opposite in their energetics. This is very common and many plants > have different qualities in their different parts. This is very > common in medicinal plants where the roots or the bark as an example > will have a powerful concentrated yang quality and the leaves or > fruit have a very yin quality. Then even within the parts certain > parts will have different qualities as in those medicinal fruits > who¡|s skin or peel will have opposite qualities from the flesh or the > seed. > > One should be clear about one is talking about. I was raised in > Kerala 'the land of coconuts' - we have used this product for > thousands of years for food, medicine, and cosmetics. Coconut flesh > is considered to be neutral in its nature since the yin oil and yang > protein balance each other. All oil is yin in its nature since it is > expansive and because of its water retention qualities and weight > increasing ability. Of the popularly used cooking oils in Kerala > Gingily (sesame)is considered the warmest, Groundnut (peanut)is > medium in its energetics, and coconut is considered cool in nature. > We have dozens of medical oils that use this energetic for > therapeutic purposes. It is mainly used in medicated oils for various > Pitta (heat) conditions. Combined with Chandan (sandalwood)this > creates a powerful substance for using on patients with fevers - > especially epidemic type conditions In Kerala the specialty of the > traditional Ayurvedic Panchakarma therapists is oil therapy - coconut > is used for over heated patients and sesame and mustard for cold > patients. Throughout the tropical regions of the world the majority > of traditional men, women, and children oil their heads with coconut > oil to keep the head cool in the hot sun ¡V they have been doing this > for thousands of years. Thanks for your insight on the various qualties of coconut in its different states. This is something I was not able to find in my references. Could you please tell me what the energetics of olive oil is? This oil is also being pushed upon Wester audiences. Also I wonder about soy oil which is ubiquitous in many Western processed foods such as salad dressings, mayonnaise, and in baked goods. How healthy is that oil? And is is a cold oil? What do you feel is the best oil to stir fry foods when faced with thyroid disease? > > > > Radiant health (to quote Teeguarden) may be the goal, but many > people > > due to circumstances beyond their control (such as inadequate jing > > inherited from parents) might have a hard time achieving such > results > > no matter how hard they try. > > I am sorry that you have misunderstood my point Well the way your previous post read to me, this is the way it sounded, but thanks for clarifying your position further below. ¡V but since this > poster has misunderstood I will try to clarify my views. I in no way > implied that there is anyone at fault in this process of disease, > health, or recovery. The fact is that the great majority of humans > will live with deteriorating processes and will die of severe chronic > disease that have possibly been developing before birth. This is not > their fault - they are victims of many pathways leading to > dysfunction - I was raised in a place where I saw people subjected to > the horrors of their genetic and social inheritance with no personal > fault of their own. This is one of the reasons why I went into > medicine. > > Stating that people have only themselves > > to blame for ill health could make many who cannot reach this goal > > through diet,herbs and/or energy healing feel inadequate in their > „« attempts. > > > As I said I did not say that anyone must feel guilty about having > disease. But the fact is that few people will recover from their > disease. This last sentence makes me feel very negative inside, because I am trying to recover, as are many people here, from disease, and while I feel immensely better than I did I still have not totally recovered. So, hearing this sort of statement (few will recover) is not encouraging (and indeed this statement is repeated later in this same post and I get the same negative feeling inside when I read it). And only those who accept responsibility for their disease > and do something about it have a chance to recover. This is true of > life in general ¡V I was born into an ancient culture yet was always > fascinated by the modern world and realized at one point that I > wanted to live in the modern western society. I had to do all of the > personal work to achieve this goal against tremendous odds ¡V yet I > had the motivation that was necessary and achieved my goals. Several > of my friends and family members also wanted what I wanted yet they > did not have the motivation that was necessary ¡V many of those people > felt jealous about me and they still do ¡V when I go home they show > this in many ways. They have a sense of disappointment about their > lives. The fact is that this is the way it is no one is to blame. Though you have relatives who have not achieved as much materially or physically as you have, who is to say that they have not overcome more than you have in their lives because what they had to deal (were born with poorer health, less well off parents etc) with was greater than what you have to deal with? There is no way of measuring who has achieved more than someone else, at least not here on earth. Envy and jealousy are common human traits, and it is hard for many to see that these feelings are corrosive and often prevent one from seeing one's own successes, maybe not seen in the world as success, but success nonetheless. > Many never get the opportunity to realize their goals. As Thoreau > said ¡§Most people live lives of quiet desperation¡¨. We must live in > the real world and understand all of the phenomena without any > romance or false sentiment. > > By the way ¡§Radiant Health¡¨ is a concept of the Taoists it refers to > the goal of life. According to this understanding ¡§Radiant Health¡¨ is > the highest achievement for human beings. This is also related to the > Taoist concept of ¡¥The Immortalists¡¨. The Immortalists are those who > achieve radiant health and therefore escape pain and suffering. If one believes it is possible to escape pain and suffering this is probably comforting as a goal. In the West this is not a very common belief system, since life and faith are viewed in a more linear way in as opposed to the Eastern view of life as a circle which is constantly repeated until reaching some sort of perfection. > > > „« I feel that the issue of health is too complex to state > > that everyone has total control of health through behavior (though > I > > am not discounting this entirely by any means). The Western world > and > > now unfortunately much of the third world is polluted with > chemicals > > in air, water, and earth which are quite beyond the control of > > individuals seeking good health and probably frequently are the > cause > > of diseases, especially in those who have inherited weaker > „« constitutions. > > We each and everyone are existing within a real context regardless of > all of our idealism. The healthiest person in the world faces the > same environmental challenges that an unhealthy person does ¡V they > just deal better with the challenge. Majority are born with deficits > of various kinds ¡V but only those who have the mind set to do > something about the challenges and limitations have the chance to > solve the problems.. > It is my vision that we are each of us responsible for the problems > of our personal lives and of society in general. You have mentioned > many things that contribute to disease. My question is if we do not > understand it is we who are polluting our world and making it > uninhabitable and creating disease in ourselves then how can the > problem be solved? I often do not agree with what goes on in society, but I hardly feel personally responsible for society as a whole when it does things with which I do not agree. I do what I can within my belief system, but it probably does not make a great deal of difference to the world as a whole when many view life and ideals differently. So I hardly feel responsible for society as a whole, except to live life as best I can. T My question is if we do not > understand it is we who are polluting our world and making it > uninhabitable and creating disease in ourselves then how can the > problem be solved? This sort of question sounds to me like the personal blame question cropping up again. How can we be personally responsible for the pollution of chemicals poured into the world in such vast quantities? If one drives a car I guess maybe one could instead walk, go back to the pre-industrial age, stop using all modern conveniences, go back to farming on a plot of land etc. This is the only way I see to personally stop pollution on an extremely minuscule scale in the whole of society. Never move from India or Europe to the United States (or the other way around) because such action will increase pollution. Never travel anywhere ever, for vaction or otherwise. Yet if one did that one will be in a very vast minority and likely to be run over at that, as well as isolated to a particular small section of the planet. And helping planetary pollution hardly at all. A mere drop (if that) in the bucket. Thank goodness that there are individuals who have > accepted the responsibility and are trying to solve the problems- > personal and social. Are you saying only a select few are doing that? Sort of the creme de la creme? > > We must deal with the givens without any blame giving. Some blame > their culture for their deficiencies ¡V others blame their parents ¡V > others blame God. This is not a correct approach. Even if we can > trace genetic weakness in our family it is we who must deal with this > problem to the best of our ability or not. To acknowledge problems > must not become an excuse for not achieving. I myself was born with > genetic challenge because Thyroid disease runs in my Mother¡|s family. > But through the genius of my father this was not an absolute obstacle > and I have lived a life of compensation simply because my father > never accepted the limitations of this disease and did everything in > his power to solve it not just for me but for my sister and Mother > and many other people ¡V he even had to go against many of his most > cherished ideals to achieve this but he did it. We must not use > our ¡¥inherited weaker constitution¡| as an excuse for not living to > the best of our ability. I have exactly the viewpoint I have on this > issue because it is clear to me that all are born with challenges and > those who overcome these problems through self understanding and self > realization are the successful ones. I agree with this wholeheartedly. You were also fortunate to have an insightful, caring parent. Few of us are so blessed. > > Your argument is not strong because if we took the position that we > should not challenge ourselves and others to do what they can for > fear that someone might feel guilty then we would forever be trapped > in the chaos of suffering with no hope of recovery. I do not accept > the argument that we should pollute the world and our bodies with no > sense of responsibility for ourselves. I do not accept that I have stated that no one has any responsibility for their own health or for pollution. Of course we are all responsible for our lives, but still some have greater handicaps to overcome than others do. I just do not feel that hearing that one is possibly not trying hard enough and therefore failing or not achieving as much as someone else is a positive message. Sometimes you sound like that to me. Perhaps it is just my interpretation. Many spend their whole lives > chasing after physicians, medicines, and therapies to help them with > their suffering¡V they travel the whole world (Kerala is full of > westerners seeking health in Ayurveda these days) ¡V they spend > fortunes. Some get some benefit some do not. If those same people > were to expend this energy and money in more self responsible ways > possibly they would be able to solve their problems themselves. Very > few actually will recover. There are many people at this group who > could tell their stories of how they have struggled to recover and > have not been successful . > This group is monitored by a person who has worked hard and long to > come to an understanding of her disease. There are many such here. > These are the people who I post for. Those who are seriously trying > to recover their health through understanding the nature of their > disease. I have been studying the process of disease and it¡|s > solution for my whole life and have some real (not theoretical) > experience of people who have achieved in that direction. Many people > have fully 100% recovered their health after suffering long years of > disease. Ron Teeguarden was mentioned ¡V he had many years of CFS and > has now achieved high levels of health and vitality. I am a member of > an antiaging support group almost everyone in our group has achieved > high levels of health most after recovery from serious disease > processes like cancer, mental problems, CFS, FM, etc.. I joined this > group(Chinese Healing) because I liked the idea of individuals > working to educate themselves on the disease process and how to solve > their own problems. I would like to encourage all such people because > it is these who have a chance at recovery. Thank you for the vote in this part of your post for possible recovery. I feel that I (and hopefully many others) will keep trying, despite the fact that I have made a less than whole recovery. Are there any general hints you can give to us as a group, such as diet therapy for thyroid disease or for hypometabolism as viewed from your culture(s) backround (you seem to know a lot about Ayurvedic, TCM as well as the Western views). Those in the West are less knowledgeable in this area (dietary health) on the whole, though there are some practitioners who are starting to pay attention to this. General hints for beneficial foods and times of year to eat them would be wonderful. > > If anyone feels guilty or inadequate as a result of having disease ¡V > please take hope as this is a common mental symptom of having mchronic > disease ¡V naturally if you overcome even some level from this disease > these symptoms will vanish. Guilt is not an appropriate response to > disease it is no ones fault ¡V we have simply manifested with disease > in pure innocence. Inadequate is a different issue as many are truly > inadequate to the goals they are trying to achieve. This is the > nature of disease ¡V it makes us less functional in some way or > another. We must never lose our instincts to be well, whole, > competent, healthy, happy, etc. otherwise we truly are lost. So as > long as we have disease we will feel everything from inadequate to > despairing ¡V these emotions are simply the emotions that surround > disease - pain, suffering, fatigue, depression, fear ¡V naturally make > one feel inadequate. Do not look for scapegoats ¡V do not feel picked > on by those who would like to encourage you to come out of all of > that. Thank you again--this sounds very positive to me. > „« While I agree with many of your insights, I still feel > > that there are people who will be unable to achieve " radiant > health " > > using self healing alone. I believe it is important that these > people > > should not feel less than whole in their efforts to achieve good > > health, even if they cannot succeed without the help > of " medicine " . > > Many people say that health may also be the healing of the spirit, > „« even if the body is > > All of this I agree with. I am a physician and as a physician one of > the most frustrating things I see are the many people who are looking > for magic in medicine ¡V I know for a fact that there is no magic in > medicine ¡V no magic bullets ¡V and those patients who see the > physician with the idea that the doctor will give them some magic > elixir that will solve all of their problems is simply unrealistic. > If there were such physicians they would be flooded by those coming > to get some of that elixir. Life does not work this way and I would > like for every patient to understand that. Most will not recover - I > am always talking to those in the minority who I believe have real > potential to recover. Please, I hope you are talking to us all, not the minority, as long as we are trying, even if we are not successful in the end. All of the rest I only have deep empathy for. > When I look around the world I see horrible suffering. World is full > of doctors, hospitals, mental institutions, prisons, etc. to attempt > to deal with the mental and physical distress of many millions of > people. We must accept that as it is ¡V but if we have any chance at > all to avoid all of those institutions then we should take it. I will agree with this too, there are too few real healers but a lot of body mechanics out there who seem to feel that making money is the goal in life. I feel that most doctors are the last place to find healing and I currently reserve usage of doctors to emergency situations (this includes the visits I endure to beg for a natural thyroid hormone prescription) which is their strong suit. I am wondering how you fit your traditional views of health into a modern Western endocrinology practice. I have never heard of an endo who would have such views nor survive the critism of colleagues if practicing using natural thyroid hormone, herbs etc (sort of what happened to Dr. Wilson, though at that time he did promote the use of herbs--he just went againsts endos views with his protocol/medication and got booted out of medical practice). Maybe it was/is easier to be different in CA than it would be in much of the US. I once went to an Indian endo (female) who first refused to acknowledge I had hypothyroidism, then told me to put on more clothes to keep warm and sneered when I asked about herbs (which seemed strange from a person whose culture survived because of herbs in the first place). So I am happy to hear that there are occasionally those physicians (such as you were) who did/do not practice like that. Still you must have been pretty lonely when in practice as an endo. After about the third endo I tried (and by whom I was ignored) I resorted to alternative doctors for medication, giving up on the endo profession as a whole. Would have liked to have seen someone like you. Sad to say, medicine as a whole is in a sorry state wh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 " " " " I am wondering how you fit your traditional views of health into a modern Western endocrinology practice. I have never heard of an endo who would have such views nor survive the critism of colleagues if practicing using natural thyroid hormone, herbs etc (sort of what happened to Dr. Wilson, though at that time he did promote the use of herbs--he just went againsts endos views with his protocol/medication and got booted out of medical practice). Maybe it was/is easier to be different in CA than it would be in much of the US. I once went to an Indian endo (female) who first refused to acknowledge I had hypothyroidism, then told me to put on more clothes to keep warm and sneered when I asked about herbs (which seemed strange from a person whose culture survived because of herbs in the first place). So I am happy to hear that there are occasionally those physicians (such as you were) who did/do not practice like that. Still you must have been pretty lonely when in practice as an endo. After about the third endo I tried (and by whom I was ignored) I resorted to alternative doctors for medication, giving up on the endo profession as a whole. Would have liked to have seen someone like you. Sad to say, medicine as a whole is in a sorry state wh " " " " You are not expected to know much about the medical community throughout the world. But many ideas that you have expressed here are not valid. Western medical community is full of people who practice medicine informed by traditional concepts. Many Ayurvedic, TCM, and other `alternative' physicians are MDs. There are dozens of professional organizations organized by these practitioners – as well as many alternative professional organizations that are made up of non allopathic practitioners but that have many members who are MDs. One thing that happens is like in the case of Indians, Chinese, or Japanese large percentage of traditional practitioners also have MD degrees. When they immigrate to the west they practice medicine as they did in their homeplace. If you search almost any issue of alternative medicine in such sites as Pub-Med you will find literally thousands of results. These studies are being done by main line researchers in major Universities. The US government even has a department that attempts to deal with the whole field of `alternative' medical care. Even the leading HMO's have `alternative' programs. Example Kaiser Permenente has an extensive acupuncture program plus many other `alternative programs many led by MDs. In Japan all Kampo (TCM) practitioners are MDs. They consider that all medical schools are a part of the greater medical community. In Japan much mainline research into Kampo issues (like herb studies) is being done by the government. The Japanese model has its faults but many aspects of it are a good model for blending the different schools of medical practice. One important thing there is that all research must be done with the western rigorous standard. Therefore studies are standardized and all communities can accept the validity of the different studies. They have done excellent research on TCM medicines. Also they demand the highest standard for the manufacturing of herbal products. Herbal products must meet the same strict standard in manufacturing as Allopathic medicines - I wish we had this here – there is much fraud and foolishness in herbal products here this would never be accepted in Japan. Look at the immense popularity of `alternative' medical people like Dr. Andrew Weil and Dr. Deepak Chopra. Search Amazon.com for books written by MDs on the infinite aspects of alternative medicine – there are thousands. Alternative medicine is a fad in many medical circles. One of my favorite Osteopaths is Dr. Mercola he is a good model for an emerging new type of medical practice that incorporates everything old and new – whatever he finds that works he uses. Dr. Ray Sahelian is a similar kind of model. Dr. Michael Lam is a very respected physician who is a leader in the Anti-aging field – he is an authentic researcher of the highest credentials who practices Anti- aging medicine and is an Officer of The American Academy of Antiaging Medicine. Dr. Lam is like me he is a MD who came from a family of traditional medical people. I see an explosion of new medical understanding everywhere. I know dozens of MDs who blend different intellectual concepts into their practice and research. Personally – me, my wife, and daughter are Endocrinologists. My wife and I were researchers throughout most of our careers – we did mainly population studies in various Endocrine issues plus we developed many research techniques for research studies. We are retired and I am doing several projects having to do with synthesizing traditional concepts with modern understanding of the Endocrine system. I also have been doing investigation into the Autonomic Nervous System and it's role in modern disease patterns informed by my traditional knowledge. For several years I have been coordinating brain chemistry studies with traditional concepts in mental functioning – with emphasize on mental disorders. Another part of that work that interests me is the relationship of brain chemistry to spiritual states and meditation. I recently have been teaching Physicians in India about some of these issues – I will be going next week to Japan, Thailand, and India where I will be lecturing to professionals on some of these issues.. It is very true that the old line Medicos are fighting this `invasion by the aliens' but they are slowly changing. When I first started practicing medicine few western MDs thought that diet and lifestyle had much to do with disease and I would get smirks when I would mention that we can heal diseases like hypertension, heart disease etc. with diet. Now almost every physician I know considers diet and lifestyle to be foundation stones in good health. Many very conservative MDs recommend herbs and other traditional therapies to their patients. There is bit by bit blending and blurring of the different intellectual perspectives. I am looking forward to seeing where all of this is going. Unfortuantely I must agree with your last statement – the medical system throughout the world is in a very low state. This has always been true but now we all know that the `Emperor has on no clothes' I know much more than most about the status of medicine in various areas of the world. It is a mess. The status of medicine in India is disgraceful. China is only a little better. US is so complicated in its negative aspects that one often throws up their hands in despair. But slowly we are moving in new more intelligent directions. But it is exactly for this reason that I feel that patients do not have very good odds for healing their disease. Most doctors know very little about how to heal disease – most do not even know what disease is – a large percentage of western Mds do not even know what are the causes of chronic disease. Most would be outraged if you told them that many of the biggest mysteries of their intellectual system have been solved hundreds of years ago. How can someone who knows basically nothing of the process of disease actually cure disease. If the disease doesn't fall into their drug protocal then the patient is in big trouble. This is a subject that I could discuss for hours – but leave it at – patient beware. By the way – most of the time when I am talking about healing disease I am not talking about managing symptoms – I am talking about full recovery of health and the building of vitality and joy of life – with avoidance of the ordinary aspects of aging. These are two very different views of disease, health, and recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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