Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 In addition to the cautions listed in previous posts, each of the Qi Tonic Herbs have specific contraindications and cautions. For some that are particularly heating, the contraindications include Yin Deficiency with Heat, Several of them have cautions when Dampness is a problem. Some of them are contraindicated in cases of high blood pressure. Always check a Materia Medica for the cautions and contraindications of any herb as well as its other properties. Or, Google for more info if you don't have a Materia Medica (book containing a list of healing substances). Radix (root of) Ginseng. Aka, ren shen. (The pharmaceutical name always includes the part of the healing substance which is used. In this case, the root.) Ginseng has the disadvantage of being expensive. Radix Codonopsitis Pilosulae, aka codonopsis, aka dang shen. Called the poor man's gingeng. Helps both the Spleen and the Lungs. It's actually a better herb than ginseng to use in case of CFIDS (Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome). Some experts recommend it be substituted for ginseng when the client has CFIDS. Radix Pseudostellarieae Heterophyllae, aka tai zi shen. Although it enters both the Spleen and Lungs channels, it's better for Spleen Deficiency than Lung weakness. It also generates fluids; thus, making it a good Qi Tonic for use after a fever or summerheat has depleted fluids and the person needs a Qi Tonic. Radix Astragali Membranaceus, aka astragalus, aka huang qi. Even though it helps both the Spleen and the Lungs, this is one of the best Qi Tonics to supplement Protective Qi (aka Defensive Qi). Prtoective Qi circulates at the surface of the body and gives resistence to exterior Evils. Definitely consider this one if the person is weather sensitive - bothered by changes in the weather and has trouble adapting quickly. This also is one of the Qi Tonic herbs that is particularly good for prolapsed uterus, stomach, or rectum. (Spleen Qi Sinking.) Astragalus is an herb that is available in capsules in many parts of the US. (But please take into account my experience with misusing Qi tonic herbs in the previous post.) Radix Dioscoreae Oppositae, aka Chinese yam, aka dioscorea, aka shan yao. This probably is one of the safest of the Qi Tonic Herbs to use when it comes to not Heating up the body. Its thermal energy is neutral. This means that it neither heats nor cools the body. It's neutral in terms of raising or lowering the temperature. HOWEVER, it is contraindicated in cases of Dampness, Stagnation, and/or accumulation. It also tonifies Yin. (Hence, the cautions about Dampness, Stagnation, and accumulation.) This herb often is found mixed with Dong Quai Root in capsules for women. Strangthens the Kidneys. Rhizoma (rhizome of) Atractylodis Macrocephalae, aka white atrctylodes, aka Bai Zhu. This one enters the Spleen and Stomach. This is a Qi Tonic Herbs which is used in cases of Dampness. But becuase of its drying and warming qualities, it's contraindicated in cases of Yin Deficiency. This one also has some very slight toxicity. Fructus (fruit of) Zizyphi Jujubae, aka Chinese date, aka jujube, aka da zao. This is another one which acts on the Spleen and Stomach. It can worsen cases of Damp Heat. Radix Glycyrrhizae Uralensis, aka licorice, aka gan cao. This is an herb that enters all 12 channels, but it has a particular affinity for the Heart, Lungs, Spleen, and Stomach. Because of it's entering all 12 channels and some other properties, licorice frequently is added in very small amounts to many formulas to even out the effects of the other herbs. It raises blood pressure though there are cases where a very small amount for a short period of time will lower high blood pressure. (This only happens sometimes.) The licorice candy sold in the US does NOT contain licorice, so that isn't a way to get some. Another name for the herb is " wood candy " . Licorice per se has neutral thermal energy. It won't heat or cool the body. But, when it is dry-fried, it develops a warming thermal energy and will warm the body. It also moistens the Lungs, and it clears heat. Rhizoma Polygonati, aka Siberian Solomon Seal rhizome, aka polygonati, aka polygonatum, aka huang jing. This one tonifies the Kidneys, but is contraindicated in cases of Spleen Deficiency with Dampness. Saccharum Granorum, aka barley malt sugar, aka yi tang. This one is particularly good when the Spleen has been damaged by overexertion. BUT, it's contraindicated for Dampness, Damp-Heat, " fullness in the middle " , and food accumulation. Information taken from Chinese Herbal Medicine Materia Medica, Revised Ed., Dan Bensky and Andrew Gamble, chapter on Qi Tonic Herbs. The information in this post in no way covers as much as Bensky and Gamble do in their book. It's just a few highlights to give readers an idea of why a healer would choose a particular Qi Tonic Herb for a particular individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 The issue that Victoria has been discussing is one of the most important misunderstood points of TCM therapy for western patients and practioners. Since many here are suffering from severe Jing defeciencies they should understand a simple point. Yin is the foundation of our bodies - it is the 'substance' of our being. The traditional masters of TCM emphasised that for us to have a succesful life we must have plenty of substance which will allow us to live our lives according to our desires and inclinations. Without suffecient yin there is no success and when yin (not yang) becomes depleted then this is decline and death. To simply try to stimulate ourselves to activity (Qi and Yang)is useless or harmful if we do not have suffecient Yin to support it. It is like trying to kick a down horse - what is the purpose. Yet I see many doing just this. In modern society Yin defeciency is at the heart of many syndromes - we are trying to live beyond our abilites - we have depleted our yin and consequently many break down. Taking tonics simply makes this problem worse. The yin must be built first - then cautiously we can begin adding Qi and Yang substances to give energy and strength. We must not get the cart before the horse in this matter otherwise serious sideeffects can arise. I have posted before about this issue by refering to the concepts of Yin fire. Many books have been written on this subject. It is complicated and for those with severe Yin defeciency (such as CFS etc.)please work on building the organs, the kidney Yin (jing), and the Shen - many of the great masters never worried much about Yang because they realized that we all will have to lose our physical power and die - they focused on Yin and Shen - this built powerful foundation for their austere practices even into old age. Many of the greatest Immortalists had highly developed Shen which gave them a universal vision - Qi alone nor Yang can do this. The masters conserved their Jing and this was the source of their great achievment. The secret to life success is not power it is steadiness and endurance with a clear heart. Even very old people can have spiritual power which gives them great success - a type of success that the most dynamic and energetic people do not have. Jing and Shen should be the subjects of inquiry for people who have lost their stregth and endurance. When the kidneys are balanced and strong then we will have the energy necessary. This is why all masters say Kidney essence is the foundation of the human experience. If we are exhausted trying to stimulate ourselves with tonics will surely cause negative effects. We will become overheated and develop the so called Yin fire - many alrady are suffering this - do not make it worse. Many think - I am tired so let me take some ginseng or whatever - this might be helpful it also might put you even further in the hole. A very common symptom of this type of imbalance is high blood pressure - there are actually many heat symptoms that might arise in the severly defecient if they try to stimulate themselves at all - even coffee and tea can leave one trembling and overheated if there is not enough yin to support it. If one is very tired or has symptoms like cold or heat intolerance - or shakiness in the limbs or abdomen etc. be very cautious with adding Qi and Yang building substances. Actually if one is suffering from any of these symptoms and has been unable to control them it will be necessary to see a professional - one is sufffering from a very complicated TCM pattern picture that takes a lot of experience to sort it all out. It must be approached step by step and with due awarness at every step. But as in all things starting with the basics of proper living will set one on a good path. for all with severe depetion I always recommend Bob Flaws book 'Arisal of the Clear' - this will begin to balance many areas of basic malfunction - like Earth defeciency and or Kidney defeciency and liver vacuity or excess. Starting at these basic levels will slowly begin to stabalize and balance one and then one can begin to see what the real issues are that keep one from success. Unfortuantely this is most often kidney yin and Yang defeciency and is very difficult to correct. The old masters did this simply by cutting out sex - but since most modern people will not follow that path then the more difficult paths must be followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 One point I failed to mention in my last posting. For those who are having problems accepting tonic herbs - if the reactions are mild to moderate the classic medicine given to support the yin and allow the body to take some Qi and or Yang is Six Rehmannia Tea, this is available in many places in the Internet - this is one of the most valuable medicines in TCM as it is a core yin supporting medicine - all under stress and or the aging should all take this medicine - it is also called Six Taste Tea - six Gentelman Tea - etc.. This formula was given by Li Dong- yuan - who many consider to be the greatest of the 'Later' Masters. If the reactions are strong take no qi or yang herbs and see an expert. You can take plenty of yin and shen herbs - shen building is very important in these cases as they almost always have heart shen depletion which causes anxiety and sleeping problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Hallo to everyone, Vinod, I just wish to say that I have been following your posts closely and with great interest these last few weeks. They are very informative and helpful and I am finally beginning to make some sort of sense of the health issues that I have been suffering from the last few years, although I am not cheered up to realise that I am perhaps a lot " sicker " or imbalanced that I had realised. I would agree from experience that tonic herbs can cause much trouble if depletion is not addressed - this was my experience and much as Chinese herbs did help me, they also made me much worse in other areas. So , if I may, I would like to ask your opinion as you are an endocrinologist. Chinese medicine functions without the recognition of hormones. Yet in my internet searches, many TCM sites talk of hormones. A TCM doctor to whom I went for a second opinion, told me that my hormones were out of balance. Another tells me TCM doesnt believe in hormones. What are your opinions on this? How can this be explained and interpreted? This is of interest to me as its part of my health story. Suffering from tiredness I started taking TCM herbs, I would now understand them to be tonics to build up my energy. This they did, they also made my uterine fibroids grow and grow. ( I had a couple of small fibroids for some years with no ill effects). This happened in a few months. I desperately did not want a hysterectomy but had no choice when they started affecting bowel function. ( I was suffering from obstruction). I would put 85% of my current health issues down to the hysterectomy (they also removed my ovaries). A quick search on the internet tells me that I am not alone!! What are your opinions re hormones for this? I was on premarin for a year but it is ghastly and caused more problems than it helped. I dabbled with hormone creams but they all caused problems. So here I am, 3 years post hysterectomy. Feeling worse and worse and wondering about hormones. Do you have any observations on problems related to menopause and hysterectomies? Incidently, I have ordered the Bob Flaws book! Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Susan: The endocrine system is not recognized by TCM, or is subsumed into the concept of related organs. Since these release hormones, one would be tempted to think that maybe hormones aren't accounted for, either. Some doctors practice a mixture of TCM and western medicine, so would include the endocrine system. At the same time, there is much that TCM can for for menopause, while wm does little or nothing. Despite the lack of formally recognizing hormones, TCM probably does account for them in its own system. Looking forward to Vinod's response. Regards, Jack --- rose4uau <fatrose wrote: > > > Hallo to everyone, > > Vinod, I just wish to say that I have been following > your posts > closely and with great interest these last few > weeks. They are very > informative and helpful and I am finally beginning > to make some sort > of sense of the health issues that I have been > suffering from the > last few years, although I am not cheered up to > realise that I am > perhaps a lot " sicker " or imbalanced that I had > realised. > > I would agree from experience that tonic herbs can > cause much trouble > if depletion is not addressed - this was my > experience and much as > Chinese herbs did help me, they also made me much > worse in other > areas. > > So , if I may, I would like to ask your opinion as > you are an > endocrinologist. > > Chinese medicine functions without the recognition > of hormones. Yet > in my internet searches, many TCM sites talk of > hormones. A TCM > doctor to whom I went for a second opinion, told me > that my hormones > were out of balance. Another tells me TCM doesnt > believe in hormones. > What are your opinions on this? How can this be > explained and > interpreted? This is of interest to me as its part > of my health > story. > > Suffering from tiredness I started taking TCM herbs, > I would now > understand them to be tonics to build up my energy. > This they did, > they also made my uterine fibroids grow and grow. ( > I had a couple > of small fibroids for some years with no ill > effects). > This happened in a few months. I desperately did > not want a > hysterectomy but had no choice when they started > affecting bowel > function. ( I was suffering from obstruction). > > I would put 85% of my current health issues down to > the hysterectomy > (they also removed my ovaries). A quick search on > the internet tells > me that I am not alone!! > > What are your opinions re hormones for this? I was > on premarin for a > year but it is ghastly and caused more problems than > it helped. I > dabbled with hormone creams but they all caused > problems. > > So here I am, 3 years post hysterectomy. Feeling > worse and worse and > wondering about hormones. Do you have any > observations on problems > related to menopause and hysterectomies? > > Incidently, I have ordered the Bob Flaws book! > > Susan > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 One of the concepts I have heard before is that in TCM, the Three Burners can be associated to the endocrine system... Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy wrote: Susan: The endocrine system is not recognized by TCM, or is subsumed into the concept of related organs. Since these release hormones, one would be tempted to think that maybe hormones aren't accounted for, either. Some doctors practice a mixture of TCM and western medicine, so would include the endocrine system. At the same time, there is much that TCM can for for menopause, while wm does little or nothing. Despite the lack of formally recognizing hormones, TCM probably does account for them in its own system. Looking forward to Vinod's response. Regards, Jack --- rose4uau <fatrose wrote: > > > Hallo to everyone, > > Vinod, I just wish to say that I have been following > your posts > closely and with great interest these last few > weeks. They are very > informative and helpful and I am finally beginning > to make some sort > of sense of the health issues that I have been > suffering from the > last few years, although I am not cheered up to > realise that I am > perhaps a lot " sicker " or imbalanced that I had > realised. > > I would agree from experience that tonic herbs can > cause much trouble > if depletion is not addressed - this was my > experience and much as > Chinese herbs did help me, they also made me much > worse in other > areas. > > So , if I may, I would like to ask your opinion as > you are an > endocrinologist. > > Chinese medicine functions without the recognition > of hormones. Yet > in my internet searches, many TCM sites talk of > hormones. A TCM > doctor to whom I went for a second opinion, told me > that my hormones > were out of balance. Another tells me TCM doesnt > believe in hormones. > What are your opinions on this? How can this be > explained and > interpreted? This is of interest to me as its part > of my health > story. > > Suffering from tiredness I started taking TCM herbs, > I would now > understand them to be tonics to build up my energy. > This they did, > they also made my uterine fibroids grow and grow. ( > I had a couple > of small fibroids for some years with no ill > effects). > This happened in a few months. I desperately did > not want a > hysterectomy but had no choice when they started > affecting bowel > function. ( I was suffering from obstruction). > > I would put 85% of my current health issues down to > the hysterectomy > (they also removed my ovaries). A quick search on > the internet tells > me that I am not alone!! > > What are your opinions re hormones for this? I was > on premarin for a > year but it is ghastly and caused more problems than > it helped. I > dabbled with hormone creams but they all caused > problems. > > So here I am, 3 years post hysterectomy. Feeling > worse and worse and > wondering about hormones. Do you have any > observations on problems > related to menopause and hysterectomies? > > Incidently, I have ordered the Bob Flaws book! > > Susan > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Michael: Yes, that's right, I had in mind the parts of the endocrine system associated with the kidneys: " The Chinese character " Shen " in TCM has been frequently translated to English as " Kidney. " However, " Shen " in TCM indicates not only the kidneys, but also includes the endocrine and reproductive organs. " Regarda, Jack " The ills of the flesh are unknown to the man who absorbs and distributes prana with accuracy. " http://www.geocities.com/mojavecowboy/clinicgz.htm Guangzhou Clinic, China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 That goes with the philosphy of the Three burners controling the Fire and Water of the body... the kidneys, Ming Men Fire, water, boiling and burners.... Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy wrote: Michael: Yes, that's right, I had in mind the parts of the endocrine system associated with the kidneys: " The Chinese character " Shen " in TCM has been frequently translated to English as " Kidney. " However, " Shen " in TCM indicates not only the kidneys, but also includes the endocrine and reproductive organs. " Regarda, Jack " The ills of the flesh are unknown to the man who absorbs and distributes prana with accuracy. " http://www.geocities.com/mojavecowboy/clinicgz.htm Guangzhou Clinic, China Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Hallo, Thanks for your answers. I do still have some issues that I am having trouble trying to understand. As I understand this, in my case I was already suffering from one or several imbalances or patterns of deficiency etc. and the surgery has added insult to injury, or should I say injury to insult. But after much research on the internet it seems to me something else is going on here. Firstly, it seems that removal of the ovaries causes a much more severe menopause (I will use the word menopause to cover triple burner imbalances that more or less cover the same thing) than just the removal of the uterus. Why would this be? Is it just the effect of surgery itself? A good friend who is 20 years my senior, has had several bouts of surgery, gall bladder, appendicectomy in the last few years. She does not suffer the symptoms I have though this surgery was abdominal surgery and impacted on meridians etc. much as mine did. If the symptoms of menopause correlate to triple burner imbalances, then menopausal symptoms would not be confined to women, for there must be men somewhere in the world with triple burner problems!! I have found stories of young women in their early to mid twenties who for various reasons had hysterectomies and removal of the ovaries and they report severe symptoms much as my own. Assuming they had no triple burner imbalances beforehand, why would this be? If menopausal syptoms, lasting several years, correlate to triple burner problems then surely they should be much more reported in the general population. Why does removal of the ovaries cause a more severe menopause? I really want to try and understand this. With the understanding that I have at the moment, western medicine theory of hormones actually explains this well but this is because I have so much to learn about tcm. So, take a healthy 25 year old woman with good triple burner function and remove her uterus. What is the outcome? Take a healthy 25 year old woman with good triple burner function and remove her ovaries. The outcome will be , I think, crashing menopause. Take a healthy 25 year old woman with good triple burner function and do an appendicectomy, or some bowel surgery, will she suffer menopausal type sumptoms? If not, why not? Take a healthy 25 year old man with good triple burner function and do abdominal surgery, will he suffer any menopausal type symptoms for any period of time? I assume that what are called menopausal symptoms are symptoms of triple burner dysfunction and many people suffer from them in part or all for many and various reasons, what I need help in understanding is why, following removal of the ovaries, menopausal symptoms can be absolutely assured. This is where the picture of hormones fits so well. Why does it appear to be, that after removal of the ovaries, one doesnt just gradually slide into more and more triple burner dysfunction, but one immediately crashes bang into the middle of severe menopause? To me this only makes sense with hormones in the picture. More research takes me to the tcm view of the kidney system. The chinese call the ovaries and testicles the " external kidneys " . Would I be right in assuming that removal of the ovaries then would damage kidney function? Could it be that the triple burner is damaged by this damage to the kidneys? My tcm doctor tells me my kidney energy is damaged and that is why my digestive function is so poor. Am I thinking along the right track here? Is it the removal of the ovaries and not the uterus and or surgery etc that causes these problems? If it is not the removal of the ovaries themselves that is the problem, that this in itself would have no effect on kidney energy, then can I assume that removal of the testicles has no effect on the health and well being of men. I read that in days of old about eunuchs and deliberate castration. Would this have any health consequences and cause and changes in mood and personality etc etc. Now I may well be on totally the wrong track here. I know there are many women who have had a hysterectomy and have felt so much better afterwards. Would I be right in assuming that before the surgery I was already severely depleted and that the surgery has just pushed me over further. Would this be the approach of tcm. I assume, when it comes to treatment, how I came to this condition is not really relevant and tcm treats the imbalances anyway. For me, at this time, I suppose the question is, if the removal of my ovaries has damaged my kidney energy, is it repairable. Can it be equated to chronic fatigue? Should this be how I approach healing? Are hormones any help or do they mask symptoms ( this I suspect) and by doing so enable one to avoid making life changes and so to heal. When one symptom ie. digestion gets so out of whack I will take chinese herbs but I can only tolerate small amounts and then find pushing another symptom to the fore or just making me feel very odd and unhappy. Does this make sense? There has been on this forum some excellent dietary advice which I am incorporating into my life . Has anyone else found that cutting out sugar makes them very very tired. I have tried to cut out sugar but I then feel so tired I feel as if I am sinking out of my body. Also my eyesight starts to dim and I cant sleep. Any tips on what to do as I read that sugar depletes the adrenals. I suppose more than anything I would like some reassurance that I can get well. That I can one day return to some semblance of the person I once was. Are their any success stories out there please - I would love to read them. Thanks to all for listening and apologies if too long and rambling. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Hi, Susan: You've raised lots of difficult questions, I'll offer my version of what might be happening. In the traditional Chinese view, most people shun surgery at all costs. Surgery subtracts from your organic whole. Once that part is gone, you can't heal it or gain it back. The beauty of TCM is that it helps avoid surgeries by accessing internal organs from the outside. The key difference between western medicine and TCM is the concept of Qi. A western doctor who cuts out your ovaries does so without acknowledging Qi, because he doesn't believe Qi exists. But he has disturbed the pattern of Qi flow in your body nonetheless. If you still had the ovaries, TCM could work to restore them by revitalizing Qi, there would be more to work with. The kidneys hold Yuan Qi, or the original Qi, and the ovaries hold Jing, or essence. These two forms of Qi are the essential forms for life. Together, these form one organic whole, they are all related. From a purely TCM perspective, from the start, one would have wanted to work with your whole body before the surgery. Whatever condition led to your surgery might have been healed by TCM, provided that you caught the situation early enough. Post facto: you can boost your kidneys in many ways: one is Cherokee Rose (Jin Ying Zi) which you could regularly drink as a medicinal tea. Regular moxa on certain points (Taixi, adjacent to the ankle bone) can supplement your kidneys. There are many other ways to do so. When you mention sugar, you talk about your eyes. The eyes are related to the liver, so there is probably something happening there. If you must take sugar, try to include natural sugars from fruits, or raw brown sugar, rather than processed white sugar. Then you mention insomnia, which brings up a host of other issues. In TCM theory, all of the Triple Burner organs influence each other, and you need to work out with your practitioner what is at root. Menopause (geng nian qi or jing duan) comes on mainly as a result of depletion of kidney and ovary Qi. Key to reducing the effects of menopause is boosting this Qi. Every person will have their own unique physical circumstances, it's really impossible to compare your situation with others'. Working with your practitioner, you can slowly unravel the complexities of your situation, especially by thinking in Five Element terms. You might want to think about the root of the problem: what situation led to the removal of your ovaries? Emotional upsets often manifest as physical problems, so you may have channeled emotions into your ovaries at some point in the past. Resolving these emotions may prove key to resolving the health issues. Hope this helps, just my own two yuan's worth. Regards, Jack --- rose4uau <fatrose wrote: > > > Hallo, > > Thanks for your answers. > > I do still have some issues that I am having trouble > trying to > understand. > > As I understand this, in my case I was already > suffering from one or > several imbalances or patterns of deficiency etc. > and the surgery has > added insult to injury, or should I say injury to > insult. But after > much research on the internet it seems to me > something else is going > on here. > > Firstly, it seems that removal of the ovaries causes > a much more > severe menopause (I will use the word menopause to > cover triple > burner imbalances that more or less cover the same > thing) than just > the removal of the uterus. Why would this be? Is > it just the effect > of surgery itself? A good friend who is 20 years my > senior, has had > several bouts of surgery, gall bladder, > appendicectomy in the last > few years. She does not suffer the symptoms I have > though this > surgery was abdominal surgery and impacted on > meridians etc. much as > mine did. If the symptoms of menopause correlate to > triple burner > imbalances, then menopausal symptoms would not be > confined to women, > for there must be men somewhere in the world with > triple burner > problems!! I have found stories of young women in > their early to mid > twenties who for various reasons had hysterectomies > and removal of > the ovaries and they report severe symptoms much as > my own. Assuming > they had no triple burner imbalances beforehand, why > would this be? > If menopausal syptoms, lasting several years, > correlate to triple > burner problems then surely they should be much more > reported in the > general population. Why does removal of the ovaries > cause a more > severe menopause? I really want to try and > understand this. > > With the understanding that I have at the moment, > western medicine > theory of hormones actually explains this well but > this is because I > have so much to learn about tcm. > > > So, take a healthy 25 year old woman with good > triple burner function > and remove her uterus. What is the outcome? > > Take a healthy 25 year old woman with good triple > burner function and > remove her ovaries. The outcome will be , I think, > crashing > menopause. > > Take a healthy 25 year old woman with good triple > burner function and > do an appendicectomy, or some bowel surgery, will > she suffer > menopausal type sumptoms? If not, why not? > > Take a healthy 25 year old man with good triple > burner function and > do abdominal surgery, will he suffer any menopausal > type symptoms for > any period of time? > > I assume that what are called menopausal symptoms > are symptoms of > triple burner dysfunction and many people suffer > from them in part or > all for many and various reasons, what I need help > in understanding > is why, following removal of the ovaries, menopausal > symptoms can be > absolutely assured. This is where the picture of > hormones fits so > well. > > Why does it appear to be, that after removal of the > ovaries, one > doesnt just gradually slide into more and more > triple burner > dysfunction, but one immediately crashes bang into > the middle of > severe menopause? To me this only makes sense with > hormones in the > picture. > > More research takes me to the tcm view of the kidney > system. The > chinese call the ovaries and testicles the " external > kidneys " . Would > I be right in assuming that removal of the ovaries > then would damage > kidney function? Could it be that the triple burner > is damaged by > this damage to the kidneys? My tcm doctor tells me > my kidney energy > is damaged and that is why my digestive function is > so poor. Am I > thinking along the right track here? Is it the > removal of the > ovaries and not the uterus and or surgery etc that > causes these > problems? > > If it is not the removal of the ovaries themselves > that is the > problem, that this in itself would have no effect on > kidney energy, > then can I assume that removal of the testicles has > no effect on the > health and well being of men. I read that in days > of old about > eunuchs and deliberate castration. Would this have > any health > consequences and cause and changes in mood and > personality etc etc. > > Now I may well be on totally the wrong track here. > I know there are > many women who have had a hysterectomy and have felt > so much better > afterwards. Would I be right in assuming that > before the surgery I > was already severely depleted and that the surgery > has just pushed me > over further. Would this be the approach of tcm. I > assume, when it > comes to treatment, how I came to this condition is > not really > relevant and tcm treats the imbalances anyway. > > For me, at this time, I suppose the question is, if > the removal of my > ovaries has damaged my kidney energy, is it > repairable. Can it be > equated to chronic fatigue? Should this be how I > approach healing? > Are hormones any help or do they mask symptoms ( > this I suspect) and > by doing so enable one to avoid making life changes > and so to heal. > When one symptom ie. digestion gets so out of whack > I will take > chinese herbs but I can only tolerate small amounts > and then find > pushing another symptom to the fore or just making > me feel very odd > and unhappy. Does this make sense? > > There has been on this forum some excellent dietary > advice which I am > incorporating into my life . Has anyone else found > that cutting out > sugar makes them very very tired. I have tried to > cut out sugar but > I then feel so tired I feel as if I am sinking out > of my body. Also > my eyesight starts to dim and I cant sleep. Any > tips on what to do > as I read that sugar depletes the adrenals. > > I suppose more than anything I would like some > reassurance that I can > get well. That I can one day return to some > semblance of the person > I once was. Are their any success stories out there > please - I would > love to read them. > > Thanks to all for listening and apologies if too > long and rambling. > > Susan > > > > > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Susan: wiseman and ye's dictionary of tcm indicates that vision problems may be related to kidney vacuity or ebbulience, so that might prove another indicator to your condition. regards, Jack --- rose4uau <fatrose wrote: > > > Hallo, > > Thanks for your answers. > > I do still have some issues that I am having trouble > trying to > understand. > > As I understand this, in my case I was already > suffering from one or > several imbalances or patterns of deficiency etc. > and the surgery has > added insult to injury, or should I say injury to > insult. But after > much research on the internet it seems to me > something else is going > on here. > > Firstly, it seems that removal of the ovaries causes > a much more > severe menopause (I will use the word menopause to > cover triple > burner imbalances that more or less cover the same > thing) than just > the removal of the uterus. Why would this be? Is > it just the effect > of surgery itself? A good friend who is 20 years my > senior, has had > several bouts of surgery, gall bladder, > appendicectomy in the last > few years. She does not suffer the symptoms I have > though this > surgery was abdominal surgery and impacted on > meridians etc. much as > mine did. If the symptoms of menopause correlate to > triple burner > imbalances, then menopausal symptoms would not be > confined to women, > for there must be men somewhere in the world with > triple burner > problems!! I have found stories of young women in > their early to mid > twenties who for various reasons had hysterectomies > and removal of > the ovaries and they report severe symptoms much as > my own. Assuming > they had no triple burner imbalances beforehand, why > would this be? > If menopausal syptoms, lasting several years, > correlate to triple > burner problems then surely they should be much more > reported in the > general population. Why does removal of the ovaries > cause a more > severe menopause? I really want to try and > understand this. > > With the understanding that I have at the moment, > western medicine > theory of hormones actually explains this well but > this is because I > have so much to learn about tcm. > > > So, take a healthy 25 year old woman with good > triple burner function > and remove her uterus. What is the outcome? > > Take a healthy 25 year old woman with good triple > burner function and > remove her ovaries. The outcome will be , I think, > crashing > menopause. > > Take a healthy 25 year old woman with good triple > burner function and > do an appendicectomy, or some bowel surgery, will > she suffer > menopausal type sumptoms? If not, why not? > > Take a healthy 25 year old man with good triple > burner function and > do abdominal surgery, will he suffer any menopausal > type symptoms for > any period of time? > > I assume that what are called menopausal symptoms > are symptoms of > triple burner dysfunction and many people suffer > from them in part or > all for many and various reasons, what I need help > in understanding > is why, following removal of the ovaries, menopausal > symptoms can be > absolutely assured. This is where the picture of > hormones fits so > well. > > Why does it appear to be, that after removal of the > ovaries, one > doesnt just gradually slide into more and more > triple burner > dysfunction, but one immediately crashes bang into > the middle of > severe menopause? To me this only makes sense with > hormones in the > picture. > > More research takes me to the tcm view of the kidney > system. The > chinese call the ovaries and testicles the " external > kidneys " . Would > I be right in assuming that removal of the ovaries > then would damage > kidney function? Could it be that the triple burner > is damaged by > this damage to the kidneys? My tcm doctor tells me > my kidney energy > is damaged and that is why my digestive function is > so poor. Am I > thinking along the right track here? Is it the > removal of the > ovaries and not the uterus and or surgery etc that > causes these > problems? > > If it is not the removal of the ovaries themselves > that is the > problem, that this in itself would have no effect on > kidney energy, > then can I assume that removal of the testicles has > no effect on the > health and well being of men. I read that in days > of old about > eunuchs and deliberate castration. Would this have > any health > consequences and cause and changes in mood and > personality etc etc. > > Now I may well be on totally the wrong track here. > I know there are > many women who have had a hysterectomy and have felt > so much better > afterwards. Would I be right in assuming that > before the surgery I > was already severely depleted and that the surgery > has just pushed me > over further. Would this be the approach of tcm. I > assume, when it > comes to treatment, how I came to this condition is > not really > relevant and tcm treats the imbalances anyway. > > For me, at this time, I suppose the question is, if > the removal of my > ovaries has damaged my kidney energy, is it > repairable. Can it be > equated to chronic fatigue? Should this be how I > approach healing? > Are hormones any help or do they mask symptoms ( > this I suspect) and > by doing so enable one to avoid making life changes > and so to heal. > When one symptom ie. digestion gets so out of whack > I will take > chinese herbs but I can only tolerate small amounts > and then find > pushing another symptom to the fore or just making > me feel very odd > and unhappy. Does this make sense? > > There has been on this forum some excellent dietary > advice which I am > incorporating into my life . Has anyone else found > that cutting out > sugar makes them very very tired. I have tried to > cut out sugar but > I then feel so tired I feel as if I am sinking out > of my body. Also > my eyesight starts to dim and I cant sleep. Any > tips on what to do > as I read that sugar depletes the adrenals. > > I suppose more than anything I would like some > reassurance that I can > get well. That I can one day return to some > semblance of the person > I once was. Are their any success stories out there > please - I would > love to read them. > > Thanks to all for listening and apologies if too > long and rambling. > > Susan > > > > > === message truncated === " The ills of the flesh are unknown to the man who absorbs and distributes prana with accuracy. " http://www.geocities.com/mojavecowboy/clinicgz.htm Guangzhou Clinic, China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 > One point I failed to mention in my last posting. For those who are > having problems accepting tonic herbs - if the reactions are mild to > moderate the classic medicine given to support the yin and allow the > body to take some Qi and or Yang is Six Rehmannia Tea, this is > available in many places in the Internet - this is one of the most valuable > medicines in TCM as it is a core yin supporting medicine - all under > stress and or the aging should all take this medicine - it is also called Six > Taste Tea - six Gentelman Tea - etc.. This formula was given by Li Dong- > yuan - who many consider to be the greatest of the 'Later' Masters. > > If the reactions are strong take no qi or yang herbs and see an expert. > You can take plenty of yin and shen herbs - shen building is very > important in these cases as they almost always have heart shen > depletion which causes anxiety and sleeping problems. Thanks for the recommendation. Yin tonic herbs can present some problems of their own when the Spleen is weak. This is why a balanced formula is so important. BTW, something that helped my particular problems was chewing a very, very small piece of licorice root and asparagus tuber (Tuber Asparagi Cochinchinensis, aka Tian Men Dong) at the same time. Asparagus root is particularly good for when there is Kidney Yin Deficiency AND Heat in the upper burner. The amount of licorice (one of the Qi Tonic herbs) I used was very small - a sliver less than the size of the small fingernail. (An interesting aside for the beginning TCM students of the list. Part of your training may be to chew individual herbs one at a time and identify their properties, including taste. Asparagus root has a sweet and bitter taste. It's very definite. When you first start to chew, the sweetness will be most noticable. After you've chewed for a while, the bitterness becomes more noticable. Licorice has a sweet taste. In fact, the literal translation of Gan Cao (the Chinese name for licorice) is " sweet herb " . One of the slang names of licorice is " wood candy " . Licorice root is woody, and I was still chewing on the piece of licorice long after the asparagus root was gone. For those new to TCM, there often are correlations between the " flavor " or " taste " of an herb and what it does. Foods also have tastes, and the Chinese idea of a balanced meal is one that contains all 5 flavors in a balance that is correct for the individual (and the season to a certain extent). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 > One point I failed to mention in my last posting. For those who are > having problems accepting tonic herbs - if the reactions are mild to > moderate the classic medicine given to support the yin and allow the > body to take some Qi and or Yang is Six Rehmannia Tea, this is > available in many places in the Internet - this is one of the most valuable > medicines in TCM as it is a core yin supporting medicine - all under > stress and or the aging should all take this medicine - it is also called Six > Taste Tea - six Gentelman Tea - etc.. This formula was given by Li Dong- > yuan - who many consider to be the greatest of the 'Later' Masters. Some clarification is needed. Six-Ingredient Pill with Rehmannia (Liu Wei Di Huang Wan) and Six Gentleman Tea (Liu Jun Zi Tang) are two different formulas. The 6- Ingredient Pill with Rehmannia is a Kideny Yin tonic formula. The 6- Gentleman Tea is a Qi tonic formula. In the previous post I mentioned that Yin tonic herbs are not without some particular problems of their own, especially when the Spleen is weak. Thus the need for a balanced formula when treating Yin Deficiency. What is it about Six-Ingredient Pill with Rehmannia that makes it better (and safer) for treating Yin Deficiency than just a Yin tonic herb alone? To answer that, let's look at the ingredients and why they are included in the formula. Radix (root of) Rehmanniae Glutinosae Conquitae (cooked); aka Shu Di Huang, aka " cooked " rehmannia. (Cooked rehmannia has different properties from unprepared rehmannia.) Fructus (fruit of) Corni Officinalis (Shan Zhu Yu, aka fruit of a type of dogwood). Radix Dioscoreae Oppositae (Shan Yao, aka Chinese yam). Sclerotium Poriae Cocos (Fu Ling - it's a fungus usually found on the roots of pine trees). Cortex (cortex, bark of) Moutan Radicis (Mu Dan Pi - bark of tree peony root). Rhizoma (rhizome of) Alismatis Orientalis (Ze Xie). The Yin tonic herb in the formula is the cooked rehmannia. Chinese yam is a Qi tonic herb, and one of this class of herbs which is particularly good for strengthening a weak Spleen. Plus it has a strengthening effect on the Kidneys. Plus in addition to its main property being Qi tonic, it also has some Yin tonic properties. So why would it be important to include a Qi tonic herb in a formula for Yin Deficiency? It goes back to some of the potential problems with Yin tonic herbs. They tend to be hard to digest, and they can be Damp-engendering. If the Spleen is weak, digestion will not be efficient. If the Spleen is weak, the person is going to be prone to edema because one of the main functions of Spleen Qi is to " transform " and transport liquids in the body. You don't want the person " drowning " internally because of Yin tonics. Two of the herbs in the formula are classified as Herbs That Drain Dampness. Fu Ling (Poriae Cocos) and Alismatis Orientalis). Fu Ling is often classified as a diuretic, but its actions go beyond those of a simple diuretic. It doesn't just increase urination, it reaches into the interstitial fluid to release water bound up in the fluid. When there is edema (and other manifestations of Dampness), treatment is two-fold. You strengthen the Spleen (in this formula the Chinese yam), and you drain Dampness. This takes care of present and future problems. It also treats the Root (the weak Spleen) at the same time it treats the branch (the manifestation of the Root - Dampness). Cortex Moutan Radicis drains Liver Fire. (It also cools the Blood.) So why the dogwood fruit (Fructus Corni Officinalis)? Cornus is classified as an Astringent Herb. One of the manifestations of Qi Deficiency is what I call " leaks " . Qi Deficiency in general and Lung Qi Deficiency in particular manifests as excessive sweating. Sweat " leakage " . Kidney and Bladder Qi Deficiency - leaks of urine (and in some cases actual incontinence. Spleen Qi Deficiency - the loose bowel movements that are so defining for Qi Deficiency. The Astringent Herbs " plug leaks " . Something else that can " leak " is Essence, aka Jing. One of the roles the Liver plays is dispersing. If the Liver is " constrained " , Qi Stagnation results. However, there are some things one doesn't want to Liver to disperse. One of these is Essence. What dogwood fruit does is it inhibits " the improper dispersion and drainage through the Liver, thereby enable the essence to build up in the Kidneys. " (Chinese Herbal Medicine Formulas & Strategies, Dan Bensky and Randall Barolet, p. 263. BTE, in addition to being a Yin tonic herb, cooked rehmannia also supplements Essence. This is why this particular Yin tonic herb was chosen for this particular formula instead of one of the other Yin tonic herbs. Six-Ingredient Pill with Rehmannia is for Kidney and Liver Yin Deficient - especially when there is some Spleen weakness and Essence Deficiency and Fire. Needless to say, even though it's a very balanced formula, there are still some cautions and contraindications. It's still very " cloying " so if there is severe Spleen weakness, one would want to modify this formula or choose another one based on how severe the Spleen weakness is. Bensky and Barolet caution especially for " cases with indigestion, diarrhea due to Spleen deficiency, or a white, greasy tongue coating. " (p. 264.) Bensky and Barolet don't mention this, but I would be especially concerned with the formula as is in cases where there are marked signs and symptoms of Cold. The formula overall may be too Cold for people suffering from Cold. Part of what the TCM herbal students will learn is how to modify formulas. BTW, modifying formulas is common. Bensky and Barolet - like other books on Chinese formulas - even list some of the most common modifications after the basic formula. Individual herbalists often come up with other modifications. How are basic formulas modified? Ingredients may be omitted, substituted, or added. Since this basic formula is so " compact " and each herb plays a very important function, leaving out something probably would not be a good idea. That leaves substitution and addition. If the Spleen Qi Deficiency is too severe for this basic formula (but not so severe that the emphasis needs to be on Qi supplementation), consider adding another Qi tonic herb. (BTW, in TCM herbalism, if one particular herb isn't enough, you don't increase the dose of that particular herb beyond the recommended dose, you add another herb from that class.) The herb that concerns me the most in cases where a person is very Cold is the Cortex Moutan Radicis. But because this herb is so critical in the formula - in particular building up the Essence and making sure the Liver doesn't disperse it - one wouldn't just leave it out. What one does is find an herb that will do what Cortex Moutan Radicis does in this particular formula but isn't so Cold, or, add some herbs to the formula that will warm up the overall thermal energy of the formula. For those new to TCM, herbs (and food) are also classified according to if they have a warming, neutral, or cooling effect on the body, You don't want to cool down someone who is already too Cold and having problems as a result. Just like you don't want to warm up a person who is already too hot. One way of getting around the problem of a formula being too warming or too cooling is to add some herbs with the opposite thermal properties to bring the overall thermal energy of the formula to something more neutral. So why is this formula so cooling? The role of Yin in the body is it cools, calms, and moistens. If there is not enough Yin to properly cool the body, Heat will result. The Heat from Yin Deficiency is called Deficiency Heat. This is to distinguish it from Excess Heat which is due to the person having consumed too many herbs and foods with heating thermal energy, being in an environment which is too hot (heat stroke), etc. Yin Deficiency - if left untreated can also result in Yin Fire. That's a much severer problem than Yin Heat. The TCM herbalism students will be learning how to modify formulas. Also which herbs don't go with other herbs for various reasons. When you see the word " wan " in the name of a formula, that's " pill " . " Tang " means " decoction " or tea. Sometimes the way the formula is administered will be important. This formula is taken in tea form if the Fire is particularly marked and the Spleen and Stomach are particularly weak. The pill form is for people with less severe problems and who require long-term treatment. BTW, even though a person having " leaks " and edema at the same time sounds like a contradition, it's not. It's actually fairly common since Spleen weakness can play a role in both. This one post isn't doing justice to this formula. For a more in- depth understanding of this formula and some of its modifications, consult one the the books on TCM formulas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Hallo Jack, Thanks so much for your replies, I think I am finally getting my head around what is happening to me. You write that the ovaries hold jing and I feel this would explain the dive into intense menopausal symptoms after their removal. Yes the surgery itself has an effect on the body and I put off having the hysterectomy for one and a half years but the fibroids kept on growing. You mention looking into the root of the problem re removal of ovaries but their was nothing wrong with my ovaries and my periods were normal. If you need a hysterectomy in a certain age group - I was 44 - they remove ovaries anyway with the reasoning that a couple of years after hysterectomy, they will have stopped functioning and so what need do you have of them and it avoids you getting ovarian cancer!!! I asked several times for them not to be removed, but you know I desperately wanted the operation by then and my digestive system had all but packed up and they came with a texta and and started marking on my abdomen where they were going to put the colostomy that they thought they would have to do, and they tell you about hormones etc etc. Anyway all this is a huge western medicine issue to do with patriarchal attitudes and not really listening to women etc etc. My blood boils just thinking about it!!! The kidney vacuity seems like it is exactly what is happening to me - is this to do with kidney yang or something else? My eyesight dimming happens when I get very very tired, also the insomnia and tinnitus. I think what happens is when I cut back on sugar I actually am eating less than I normally do, I dont have much interest in food, I just eat to stop me feeling sick, so by cutting back I usually start to feel tired and so this affects other things. I had a chat to my tcm herbalist and he says its my kidney yang that is affected. My digestive function is poor because of this and I have gained plenty of weight since the surgery which seems to be a lot of fluid retention - I have pitting oedema in my lower legs - though I eat much less than I ever did. A lot of this I feel was due to the evil premarin which I took for the first 18 months post surgery. Although I did at first, I no longer have hot flashes or night sweats and in the last year I have felt better than in the first two years. I do qigong daily. I will look into trying cherokee rose. The herbalist says I have too much dirty water in my body and this also causes tiredness - this is the main reason I try and cut out sugar, to try and lose some of the fluid, So I should be building up my kidney yang and fine tuning my diet to improve my digestion. I believe kidney yang would have been one of my root problems as when I first saw the herbalist prior to surgery I was always suffering from the cold and had started to feel tired all of the time. Thanks again for your help Jack. I have great faith in my herbalist, I think he is very good, but English is not his first language and I just needed to understand all this from a western mindset if you know what I mean. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Dear Susan: Glad you are feeling more in tune with what is going on and that you trust your herbalist. Sounds as if your herbalist could have done much more for you all along than the western medicines and surgeries. Surgeons not listening to women, yes, a big problem, especially when they really don't understand what they are doing when they casually recommend hysterectomies. You mentioned several points that indicate patterns in Chinese medicine. If you haven't discussed these with your herbalist, you may want to go back and clear these up. By the root of the problem I mean some kind of emotional issue in your life. Many times illness is a manifestation of emotional issues that we store in our organs. Chinese medicine discusses rootand branch, which means the causal factor and symptoms. The root of your problems may lie with your kidneys, and these may be influenced by emotional factors. You mention a number of symptoms which all go towards making a proper diagnosis: a. my digestive > system had all but packed up b. My eyesight dimming happens when I get very very > tired, also the > c. insomnia and d. tinnitus. e. I dont have much > interest in food, my tcm herbalist and he says its my> kidney yang that > is affected. (quite possibly) f. My digestive function is poor because > of this and I > have gained plenty of weight since the surgery which> seems to be a > lot of fluid retention - g. I have pitting oedema in my> lower legs - The herbalist says I have too much dirty water in my > body h. this > also causes tiredness Does your herbalist understand that you have all of these symptoms? These are all factors that go into making an accurate diagnosis. While there are many and seem complex, they are no doubt related and your herbalist needs to know about all of them to be able to untangle and resolve them in sequence. " I do qigong daily. " This might be good, but you need a good teacher. Incorrect practice of Qigong can make your problems worse. I did yoga for several months while I had sciatica. The yoga instructors assured me that certain poses would help my condition. Months later I learned how severe my condition was and that yoga was exacerbating the problem, but the yoga instructors had a vested interest in my paying monthly fees. My acupuncturist says I need a year of rest before I can consider Qigong or Tai Ji. Hope this helps, Jack --- rose4uau <fatrose wrote: > > > Hallo Jack, > > Thanks so much for your replies, I think I am > finally getting my head > around what is happening to me. > > You write that the ovaries hold jing and I feel this > would explain > the dive into intense menopausal symptoms after > their removal. > > Yes the surgery itself has an effect on the body and > I put off having > the hysterectomy for one and a half years but the > fibroids kept on > growing. You mention looking into the root of the > problem re removal > of ovaries but their was nothing wrong with my > ovaries and my periods > were normal. If you need a hysterectomy in a > certain age group - I > was 44 - they remove ovaries anyway with the > reasoning that a couple > of years after hysterectomy, they will have stopped > functioning and > so what need do you have of them and it avoids you > getting ovarian > cancer!!! I asked several times for them not to be > removed, but you > know I desperately wanted the operation by then and > my digestive > system had all but packed up and they came with a > texta and and > started marking on my abdomen where they were going > to put the > colostomy that they thought they would have to do, > and they tell you > about hormones etc etc. Anyway all this is a huge > western medicine > issue to do with patriarchal attitudes and not > really listening to > women etc etc. My blood boils just thinking about > it!!! > > The kidney vacuity seems like it is exactly what is > happening to me - > is this to do with kidney yang or something else? > > My eyesight dimming happens when I get very very > tired, also the > insomnia and tinnitus. I think what happens is when > I cut back on > sugar I actually am eating less than I normally do, > I dont have much > interest in food, I just eat to stop me feeling > sick, so by cutting > back I usually start to feel tired and so this > affects other things. > > I had a chat to my tcm herbalist and he says its my > kidney yang that > is affected. My digestive function is poor because > of this and I > have gained plenty of weight since the surgery which > seems to be a > lot of fluid retention - I have pitting oedema in my > lower legs - > though I eat much less than I ever did. A lot of > this I feel was due > to the evil premarin which I took for the first 18 > months post > surgery. Although I did at first, I no longer have > hot flashes or > night sweats and in the last year I have felt better > than in the > first two years. I do qigong daily. I will look > into trying > cherokee rose. > > The herbalist says I have too much dirty water in my > body and this > also causes tiredness - this is the main reason I > try and cut out > sugar, to try and lose some of the fluid, > > So I should be building up my kidney yang and fine > tuning my diet to > improve my digestion. > > I believe kidney yang would have been one of my > root problems as > when I first saw the herbalist prior to surgery I > was always > suffering from the cold and had started to feel > tired all of the time. > > Thanks again for your help Jack. I have great faith > in my herbalist, > I think he is very good, but English is not his > first language and I > just needed to understand all this from a western > mindset if you know > what I mean. > > Susan > > > > > > > > > " The ills of the flesh are unknown to the man who absorbs and distributes prana with accuracy. " http://www.geocities.com/mojavecowboy/clinicgz.htm Guangzhou Clinic, China Personals - Better first dates. More second dates. http://personals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 In Victoria's posting on the various Rehmania formulas used for supporting the Yin - I agree with most of what she has said but one comment. The caveat I offered was 'mild to moderate reactions to yang and Qi substances'- meaning if the body has the ability to accept some stimulation then we know that the yang and Qi issue is less severe - in that case Rehmania formulas used for supporting the yin are often enough and there will be no contraindication. In western people who have the classic western patterns of yin and yang defeciency - then the point is that there can be no question of building thw Qi or yang jing without yin support. Over cold symptoms in the presence of yang vacuity will create problems if we do not balance all patterns that show the weakness. We must assume at all times that when appraoching any issue of the body that no other issue will be ignored - human body is an intergrated system and no function exists independent from other functions. To take medicines with out proper consideration of the whole case is not only not intelligent - it can also cause problems. As I have mentioned here before this is the grestest weakpoint when one tries to solve their health problems without knowledge and experience. It can be done - I have seen many great successes - but I have also seen many very confused cases caused by random medicine taking. 'Medicines' in every system that have the ability to affect bodily functions can also cause side-effects - and be contraindicated in some other presenting issue. Essesence leakage can easily be seen by immoderate loss of all of the jing fluids - excess persperation - excess semen loss etc. indicate that the body is losing it's ability to hold the jing fluids - this is very harmful - not just 'weakening' but destructive to life. A large majority of 'aging' symptoms can be traced to this issue. Over cold people who also are unable to hold the jing or build the Qi - have lost control of basic functions and should be under the care of a professional. This is a foundation patttern of many of the most destructive disease patterns. Do not wait until you understand the problems - give it over to someone who knows. Even the most experienced physicians will have difficulty managing these very complicated cases. Disease has occured over long periods in many layers and demensions - sorting this out is not childs play - it is serious business and one must stop the process of decline as soon as possible - the earlier the cases are dealt with the greater the prospects of recovery. One must remember that after certain functions (especially kidney - which include adrenal issues) have been suffeciantly harmed - it will be difficult to control in a 'natural' way - this is why many TCM and Kampo practioners use Cortisol and other substances in their practices - because in traditinal systems medicine was clearly seen to have limits - and many catagories of disease were condidered incurable - but we have many tools today that make disease recovery more available to a broader range of individuals. How far any given person will be able to go in their recovery are dependent on many factors - medicine is only one and in most cases a minor factor. Medicine can be a support to healing - but medicine by itself can not 'cure' disease - if it were so then we would not have so much disease - the numbers of medicnes are greatb and the doses taken are beyond calculation yet we go alng suffering and dieing in despair. Insight is essential - this often means accepting that this is bigger than I am so let me take advice of an experienced person. This is what we are doing every time we take a dose of medicine. Even if we have self prescribed - still some master has studied the issue and developed the formula we are taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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