Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Greetings, Do TCM and Buddhism relate in any way? Thanks, Danamarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Chinese Traditional Medicine , " das4145 " <asenat45@h...> wrote: > > Greetings, > > Do TCM and Buddhism relate in any way? > > Thanks, Danamarie > Many people believe that TCM is a Taoist system but it is not - the contributing influences have been Taoist, Buddhist,secular, and many other. There is one theory that medicine came to China from India (Ayurveda is also a Five Element system (Mahabhuta). The philosohical basis of most systems in Asia are related to each other. Many postulate (this is a theory that my father s to)that medicine as we know it came first out of ancient folk science - then it was investigated in depth by the monastic traditions (they are the worlds most subtle observers). Then later secular philosohers interperted this for the masses and the common health issues of the people. There are many seperate medical traditions based on TCM understandings in the various Buddhist countries - like Tibet, Thailand, Japan, etc. I just spent two weeks in Japan where I was studying theories of anti- aging amongst the Zen practioners. The entire theory of the monastic life of these people is based on the Chinese Buddhism that was imported to Japan. Every school of thought attempts to understand the nature of reality - but each one will come to a slightly different conclusion depending on the cultural context. But to say that TCM came out of Taoism, Buddhism, etc. is not the same as saying that the popular TCM is the same TCM as practiced by advanced practioners like the Buddha. One can take the theory of the Yin and Yang and the Five Elements and come to different conclusions. the Zen Masters i have recently been interviewing have a totally different view of the facts of TCM than say a doctor might have. My father as an example is a medical scholar - and he lives a life that is absolutely consistant with his understanding of the Five Elements - but he does not beleieve in using medicines and other standard medical techniques as a means of recovering from disease. He like the Zen Master's believe that health comes not from a medical formula - health comes from living a healthy life. Indeed many schools that have this understanding have been describing the meaning of natural law as it is expressed in an individuals life for centuries - living in these ways s create healthy people and healthy culture. My father follows a Yogic path based on Five Element theory and has never taken one medicine of any kind in his life and neither has he had any health issues of any kind in his life. My father does not think of himself as a religeous person but he follows the way of the Buddha - just as i do (we came from a Hindu tradition)in as perfect a manner as I have seen in a nonmonastic person. Traditional science is not just one system it is a collection of differnt schools of thought that has evolved over thousands of years and is practiced in different ways. Indeed every physician and other practioners practice in their personal way. My father has a different view from his teachers - two of whom were fully enlightened people - and I who am an erstwhile student of my father follow an even different path - but my father sees no contradictions in my way and his - and i hope I have at least fullfilled part of his vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Danamarie: Buddhism has adopted various aspects of traditional healing, so yes, there are Buddhist methods of healing. Tibetan medicine is almost inseparable from Buddhist medicine for example. Some say Tibetan medicine is more powerful than TCM. Buddhist mudras can be used for healing, similar to Reiki. Regards, Jack --- das4145 <asenat45 wrote: > Greetings, > > Do TCM and Buddhism relate in any way? > > Thanks, Danamarie > > > > > > > http://www.fengshuiphoenix.com/chen_wenjun_services.htm Qi Men Dun Jia / Chinese Divination Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Hi Danamarie, Historically, the roots of TCM are mostly Taoist, but in China, the three Ways(Taoism, Buddhism & Confucianism) have a history of exchange and they influenced one another through many periods of Chinese civilization. Of course the medical corpus was enriched by contributions of Buddhist monks and doctors, but Taoism has an emphasis on taking care of the body and its energies(Jing, Qi and Shen), that is not equaled in Buddhism with its emphasis on detachment and Nirvana. May the Hun be with you, Marcos --- das4145 <asenat45 escreveu: > Greetings, > > Do TCM and Buddhism relate in any way? > > Thanks, Danamarie > > > _____ doce lar. Faça do sua homepage. http://br./homepageset.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Thank you, Vinod...for all the energy and insight you bring to the forum. Inspiring reminders of why we do what we do. Please keep writing and sharing your experience. I am an AP on hiatus dealing with personal issues of grieving the recewnt loss of my mom from illness after being her caretaker for the past several years and other personal issues that have taken me off path. I am struggling through newly diagnosed vitiligo, mercury poisoning , RA, heart disease (to put it in western terms) an endless array of energy sapping indications all brought on by taking on too much stress in a very short period of time and from toxic environmental exposure. I quit a career in broadcasting out of compassion fatigue, out of knowing and seeing too much sometimes...I did so in midlife as my children were establishing themselves and my mother was becoming more dependent and other incredible personal stuff just snowballed. I absorbed it all into my cellular memory unwittingly..like an inpath, an empath..a whatever you call it. In the treatment room as vehicular caretaker and I am sane and cocooned from the world and I need to get back there somehow soon. I'm taking baby steps to learn how to walk properly this time. I am learning not to be superwoman. I am really at a breaking point where it will either be chelation or cremation...but as I read what you write you affirm my intended destiny. I don't mind sharing my story publicly on this list....as a pracitioner struggling to get it back together. I know I am not the first or only person in this complex situation. Namaste and Ase. Twyla Vinod Kumar <vinod3x3 wrote: Chinese Traditional Medicine , " das4145 " <asenat45@h...> wrote: > > Greetings, > > Do TCM and Buddhism relate in any way? > > Thanks, Danamarie > Many people believe that TCM is a Taoist system but it is not - the contributing influences have been Taoist, Buddhist,secular, and many other. There is one theory that medicine came to China from India (Ayurveda is also a Five Element system (Mahabhuta). The philosohical basis of most systems in Asia are related to each other. Many postulate (this is a theory that my father s to)that medicine as we know it came first out of ancient folk science - then it was investigated in depth by the monastic traditions (they are the worlds most subtle observers). Then later secular philosohers interperted this for the masses and the common health issues of the people. There are many seperate medical traditions based on TCM understandings in the various Buddhist countries - like Tibet, Thailand, Japan, etc. I just spent two weeks in Japan where I was studying theories of anti- aging amongst the Zen practioners. The entire theory of the monastic life of these people is based on the Chinese Buddhism that was imported to Japan. Every school of thought attempts to understand the nature of reality - but each one will come to a slightly different conclusion depending on the cultural context. But to say that TCM came out of Taoism, Buddhism, etc. is not the same as saying that the popular TCM is the same TCM as practiced by advanced practioners like the Buddha. One can take the theory of the Yin and Yang and the Five Elements and come to different conclusions. the Zen Masters i have recently been interviewing have a totally different view of the facts of TCM than say a doctor might have. My father as an example is a medical scholar - and he lives a life that is absolutely consistant with his understanding of the Five Elements - but he does not beleieve in using medicines and other standard medical techniques as a means of recovering from disease. He like the Zen Master's believe that health comes not from a medical formula - health comes from living a healthy life. Indeed many schools that have this understanding have been describing the meaning of natural law as it is expressed in an individuals life for centuries - living in these ways s create healthy people and healthy culture. My father follows a Yogic path based on Five Element theory and has never taken one medicine of any kind in his life and neither has he had any health issues of any kind in his life. My father does not think of himself as a religeous person but he follows the way of the Buddha - just as i do (we came from a Hindu tradition)in as perfect a manner as I have seen in a nonmonastic person. Traditional science is not just one system it is a collection of differnt schools of thought that has evolved over thousands of years and is practiced in different ways. Indeed every physician and other practioners practice in their personal way. My father has a different view from his teachers - two of whom were fully enlightened people - and I who am an erstwhile student of my father follow an even different path - but my father sees no contradictions in my way and his - and i hope I have at least fullfilled part of his vision. Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Dear Vinod, Jack, Marcos, & All, Many thanks for your contributions! The knowledge on this list is in volumes! I nearly shirk in the wealth of information & insight. I truly am grateful for your understanding, and I also appreciate your willingness to share with me. This past spring, I felt a great desire, more that before, to pick an " alternative medicine " to study for fulfilling a need to live a healthy life: spiritually, physically, emotionally, and mentally. When I stumbled upon Reiki on an internet search, I wanted to learn more about it. Since then, I've received the Level III attunement in the Traditional Usui Reiki/Shiki Ryoho. This was my start to self-healing... Since I greatly enjoy cooking, I have been studying and preparing recipes from " Healing with Whole Foods: Asian Traditions and Modern Nutrition by Paul Pitchford. (I believe that somebody on this list recommended this wonderful book! Thanks!) I recently started to study the six rasas, Ayurveda, and Buddhist temple cuisine... Zen feels so natural to me... I just recently started this study. At this point, I have so little understanding that I could not give an elementary description about it. There is so much to learn, but life seems too short to actually reach wisdom... Thanks again for your guidance and kindness! My sincere regards to Vinod's father too! Respectfully, Danamarie PS: I've also enjoyed the messages posted about dreams. ***** " ...My father as an example is a medical scholar - and he lives a life that is absolutely consistant with his understanding of the Five Elements - but he does not beleieve in using medicines and other standard medical techniques as a means of recovering from disease. He like the Zen Master's believe that health comes not from a medical formula - health comes from living a healthy life. Indeed many schools that have this understanding have been describing the meaning of natural law as it is expressed in an individuals life for centuries - living in these ways s create healthy people and healthy culture...' '...Traditional science is not just one system it is a collection of differnt schools of thought that has evolved over thousands of years and is practiced in different ways. Indeed every physician and other practioners practice in their personal way. " ~Vinod **** " Buddhism has adopted various aspects of traditional healing, so yes, there are Buddhist methods of healing. Tibetan medicine is almost inseparable from Buddhist medicine for example. Some say Tibetan medicine is more powerful than TCM. Buddhist mudras can be used for healing, similar to Reiki. " ~Jack **** " Historically, the roots of TCM are mostly Taoist, but in China, the three Ways(Taoism, Buddhism & Confucianism) have a history of exchange and they influenced one another through many periods of Chinese civilization. Of course the medical corpus was enriched by contributions of Buddhist monks and doctors, but Taoism has an emphasis on taking care of the body and its energies(Jing, Qi and Shen), that is not equaled in Buddhism with its emphasis on detachment and Nirvana. " ~Marcos **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 --- Vinod Kumar <vinod3x3 escreveu: >> But to say that TCM came out of Taoism, Buddhism, etc. is not > the same > as saying that the popular TCM is the same TCM as practiced by > advanced practioners like the Buddha. Hello Vinod, I enjoyed your posting, much fortunate to have such a father, peace and blessings to you both! I undertand that the Buddha, as all enlightened beings, was in harmony with the Tao(or however one would like to call it!), and as such was a healer in the highest sense. But that is not strictly TCM as we know it, which was created in the twentieth century. In general, I get your point and , but in particular, the specific practice that TCM constitutes, with its theory, diagnostics and treatment strategies(including needles, which where not extant in India), I must disagree. May the Hun be with you, Marcos _____ doce lar. Faça do sua homepage. http://br./homepageset.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 --- Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy escreveu: > Danamarie: > > Buddhism has adopted various aspects of traditional > healing, so yes, there are Buddhist methods of > healing. Tibetan medicine is almost inseparable from > Buddhist medicine for example. Some say Tibetan > medicine is more powerful than TCM. > > Buddhist mudras can be used for healing, similar to > Reiki. >> Hi Jack, The main difference between TCM as practiced in China and the world nmowadays is that tibetan medicine uses prayers, rituals and meditations in addfition to its herbal remedies. The chinese also had that, but it was defenastrated by the revolution(unfortunately), but it makes up for it by using Qi through Qigong. Another difference is the needles, of course. May the Hun be with you, Marcos _____ doce lar. Faça do sua homepage. http://br./homepageset.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 the specific practice that TCM > constitutes, with its theory, diagnostics and treatment > strategies(including needles, which where not extant in India), I > must disagree. Needling of the Srotas (meridians) was used in India since ancient times - they used many techniques for toning and sedating different energy pathways. The theory, diagnostic techniques, and treatment stratagies of TCM are not different from the Ayurvedic it simply uses different herbs, modalities, and language - but both are Five- element systems. this issue pertains to many of the five-element systems (Tibetan and Japanese) - even reading the various Chinese Texts reveals a vast difference in approach to the same issues (after all the issues are limited) but we can approach the issues from differwent perspectives. This divergence in theraputics (not necessarily theory) is going through vast changes today and in countries like Japan a whole new medicine which can be thought of as a combination of modern theoretical constructs with traditional ones. Many Kampo physicians as an example use western drugs and therapaies (like HRT) in a manner that is based on a traditional understanding informed by new discoveries. In my opinion this is the future direction that TCM throughout the world will take. There are weak points in TCM and many thinkers are trying to solve these issues through expanding traditional theraputics. When I am referring to TCM I am not reffering just to the modern medical system of China (by the way there is not just one medical system in China there are many - each with it's own theory and theraputic approach - just as the Tibetan system is a TCM system but is different from the modern system that has developed in China - same for Japan - Kampo is a TCM system but one with differnt approachs from main stream Chinese. My reference is to a historical body of knowledge based on a particular philosophical framework (five-element theory). In my opinion the TCM you are referring to is more appropriatly called MTCM (Modern Traditional ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 --- Vinod Kumar <vinod3x3 escreveu: In my opinion the TCM you are referring > to is > more appropriatly called MTCM (Modern Traditional Chinese > Medicine). > > If you wish to call it that, that's fine with me. May the Hun be with you, Marcos _____ doce lar. Faça do sua homepage. http://br./homepageset.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Thank you for this answer and I am not posting as much as I'd like to because it seems my server is acting weird- imagine Verizon acting weird? ;o) It is annoying though to know you're only getting spurts of mail coming through- I had asked the question once " What was TCM " and then the next day figured it out- I haven't been to the archives yet, but will either before I get a shower, or after I get out of the shower....... - marcos Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, December 06, 2005 1:42 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: ? about TCM & Buddhism --- Vinod Kumar <vinod3x3 escreveu: In my opinion the TCM you are referring > to is > more appropriatly called MTCM (Modern Traditional Chinese > Medicine). > > If you wish to call it that, that's fine with me. May the Hun be with you, Marcos _____ doce lar. Faça do sua homepage. http://br./homepageset.html Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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