Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Hello to you all, My name is Marlene and I am new to this list. I am a Reiki Master and currently studying Naturopathic medicine. I received a book on Chinese medicine and was really intrigued with it since it works with the energies of the body. I have lingered here for a few days reading the posts that have came my way........alot of good info you all have shared. I am currently working with someone in my family that seems to be Kidney Yin deficient and after just learning to read tongue', it seems my whole family is Yin deficient. Now some of us are Yin deficient with excess internal heat..................but the one that I spoke of first is Kidney Yin deficient with what seems to be deficient in heat also.........so while reading up on this I found that to increase Kidney Yang (heat) that the Kidney Yin needed to be increased........this totally throws me off. Being a newbie at TCM, I " m not sure what herbs we are looking at that is needed.....heat or cold ?? I would appreciate any assistance anyone could give me to further my insight to this dilemma. Glad Creator guided me to this list...... many blessings, Marlene in Arkansas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 perhaps it might be better to know what symptoms you are seeing that lead you to the kidney and to both yin and yang def. Bob www.acuherbals.com Marlene <MarleneLawson wrote: Hello to you all, My name is Marlene and I am new to this list. I am a Reiki Master and currently studying Naturopathic medicine. I received a book on Chinese medicine and was really intrigued with it since it works with the energies of the body. I have lingered here for a few days reading the posts that have came my way........alot of good info you all have shared. I am currently working with someone in my family that seems to be Kidney Yin deficient and after just learning to read tongue', it seems my whole family is Yin deficient. Now some of us are Yin deficient with excess internal heat..................but the one that I spoke of first is Kidney Yin deficient with what seems to be deficient in heat also.........so while reading up on this I found that to increase Kidney Yang (heat) that the Kidney Yin needed to be increased........this totally throws me off. Being a newbie at TCM, I " m not sure what herbs we are looking at that is needed.....heat or cold ?? I would appreciate any assistance anyone could give me to further my insight to this dilemma. Glad Creator guided me to this list...... many blessings, Marlene in Arkansas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Marlene: Welcome, you may also want to refer in the archives to posts by Vinod regarding yin deficiency. Jack --- " Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist wrote: > perhaps it might be better to know what symptoms you > are seeing that lead you to the kidney and to both > yin and yang def. > Bob > www.acuherbals.com > > Marlene <MarleneLawson wrote: > > Hello to you all, > > My name is Marlene and I am new to this list. I am > a Reiki Master and currently studying Naturopathic > medicine. I received a book on Chinese medicine and > was really intrigued with it since it works with the > energies of the body. > I have lingered here for a few days reading the > posts that have came my way........alot of good info > you all have shared. > > I am currently working with someone in my family > that seems to be Kidney Yin deficient and after just > learning to read tongue', it seems my whole family > is Yin deficient. Now some of us are Yin deficient > with excess internal heat..................but the > one that I spoke of first is Kidney Yin deficient > with what seems to be deficient in heat > also.........so while reading up on this I found > that to increase Kidney Yang (heat) that the Kidney > Yin needed to be increased........this totally > throws me off. Being a newbie at TCM, I " m not sure > what herbs we are looking at that is needed.....heat > or cold ?? > > I would appreciate any assistance anyone could give > me to further my insight to this dilemma. > > Glad Creator guided me to this list...... > many blessings, > Marlene in Arkansas > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: > Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 His symptoms are trouble holding urine, unable to release bladder completely, frequent trips to the bathroom at night, aversion to cold, weak lower back and knees, impotence (unable to achieve & maintain " full " erection), premature ejaculation, loss of libido, night sweats from the upper back and neck, dull complexion, pale tongue, irritable, raised right testicle, he also has curvature of the spine and flat feet He did stumble upon Dog wood berries and discovered they worked for the releasing of the bladder, which has helped, but only for the bladder. He no longer has to make several trips to the bathroom in the night. If I " m not mistaken, most of the above symptoms are Kidney yin deficiency ??? with the impotence and loss of libido being kidney yang deficiency ??? I believe also loss of Kidney Qi ????????? Blessings, Marlene - Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, December 05, 2005 1:58 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] New here and Kidney deficient perhaps it might be better to know what symptoms you are seeing that lead you to the kidney and to both yin and yang def. Bob www.acuherbals.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Jack Sweeney Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, December 05, 2005 8:24 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] New here and Kidney deficient Marlene: Welcome, you may also want to refer in the archives to posts by Vinod regarding yin deficiency. Jack thanks Jack, I'll do that ..... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Marlene " <MarleneLawson@p...> wrote: > > His symptoms are trouble holding urine, unable to release bladder completely, frequent trips to the bathroom at night, aversion to cold, weak lower back and knees, impotence (unable to achieve & maintain " full " erection), premature ejaculation, loss of libido, night sweats from the upper back and neck, dull complexion, pale tongue, irritable, > raised right testicle, he also has curvature of the spine and flat feet The thing is that when a person is Kidney Yang Deficient, she's almost certain to also be Kidney Yin Deficient though to a lesser degree. The same applies to a person who is Kidney Yin Deficient. This is why Kidney Yang tonic formulas usually include at least 1 Kidney Yin tonic herb, and Kidney Yin tonic herbs usually include at least 1 Kidney Yang tonic herb. The Kidneys supply Yang and Yin to the rest of the body. Sometimes if the Kidney Yang Deficiency is very severe compared to the Kidney Yin Deficiency, a lot of the symptoms of the Kidney Yin Deficiency may be masked. It's only as the Kidney Yang Deficiency is threated that the Kidney Yin Deficiency becomes apparent. The formula then needs to be changed for the changed clinical picture. Weak lower back and knees are general symptoms of Kidney imbalance. They point to there being some kind of Kidney imbalance, but not which particular one(s). Hating cold, feeling cold a lot, and having trouble warming up point very strongly to Kidney Yang Deficiency. (There also can be problems with feeling cold when there is Blood Deficiency. If Blood Deficiency is also present with Kidney imbalance, keep in mind that in TCM physiology, the Kidneys play an important role in the formation of Blood. Also keep in mind that when there is Kidney Yang Deficiency, there frequently is Spleen Deficiency, and the Spleen plays the most important role in the production of Blood.) (A reminder that TCM Organs are not equivalent to anatomical organs but are collections of functions.) Loss of libido points to Kidney Yang Deficiency. When Kidney Yin Deficiency predominates, a person frequently will want sex a lot. The person may also have a lot of nervous energy. Even though the person is tired, s/he can't sit still. (For readers new to TCM, Yang activates, warms, and dries; Yin calms, cools, and moistens.) People who are Kidney Yin Deficient can also find it hard to meditate. Frequent trips to the bathroom at night (as well as during the day): Kidney Yang Deficiency. The person tends to produce a lot of colorless urine. In contrast, the urine when Kidney Yin Deficiency is predominate tends to be very concentrated, and the person doesn't go to the bathroom very often. People who are Kidney Yang Deficient don't feel thirsty a lot of the time, and when they do, they prefer hot liquids like soup. In contrast a person who is predominately Kidney Yin Deficient has normal thrist or may even be thristy a lot. The person often prefers cool drinks. There's something odd that can be seen with Kidney Yin Deficiency. Even though the person is thirsty, s/he prefers to sip. Oddly enough, Kidney Qi Deficiency (and Bladder Deficiency) can be responsible for incontinence and dribbing as well as for being unable to empty the bladder completely. It takes Qi to move urine. It just doesn't flow out. But it also takes Qi to keep things closed. One of the symptoms of Qi Deficiency in general is what I call " leaks " . Leaks of urine, bowel movements (some cases of diarrhea and what Al Stone called " Leaky Butt " on here), sweat, etc. However night sweats point to Yin Deficiency. Something to be aware of when a person is predominately Kidney Yang Deficient is that part of the reason for night sweats isn't just that the person also is Kidney Yin Deficient. Part of the reason has to do with Kidney Yang Deficient people tending to be very, very cold when they go to bed and really piling the covers on. As they warm up while sleeping, all the extra cover causes them to sweat. Speaking from experience, it's probably best that someone who is strongly Kidney Yang Deficient use the extra cover, and learn to peel off layers of cover during the night as s/he wakes and warms. After the Kidney Yang Deficiency is corrected somewhat, the person can better tolerate feeling a little cool when s/he goes to bed. Please note that I said " a little " . If the person is still at the stage of feeling very cold and even shivering, it's best to pile the covers on. If the person is extremely Kidney Yang Deficient, no amount of cover is going to warm the person. It's going to take soaking in a hot bath before bed and/or heating pads. Something else to keep in mind when a Kidney Yang Deficient person judges how much cover will be enough without being too much later on is that cold damages the Kidneys (and the Spleen). It can be Deficiency Cold (caused by Yang Deficiency - note the snowballing effect of old injuring Kidneys which results in more Yang Deficiency which results in more cold damaging the Kidneys more, and so on). Or, it can be Excess Cold invading from the environment. Since cold damages the Kidneys, this too works to make the person more Yang Deficient. (Cold also attacks Yang; Heat attacks Yin.) Since Kidney Yang Deficient people tend to go to the bathroom a lot at night, they can train themselves to peel off a quilt or blanket each time they get up. A pale tongue points to Yang Deficiency and/or Blood Deficiency. A pale complexion can be Yang Deficiency and/or Blood Deficiency and in some cases Qi Deficiency. The paleness of Blood Deficiency tends to be dull; that of Yang Deficiency tends to be shiny. The retraction of a testicle could be Stagnation of Cold in the Liver Channel. Exterior Cold has invaded the Liver channel. " Fullness and distension of the hypogastrium (just over the bladder) with pain which refers to the scrotum and testis. Straining of the testis or ocntraction of the srotum. In women there can be shrinking of the vagina. The pain is alleviated by warmth. " (Giovanni Maciocia, The Foundations of , p. 224.) Maciocia goes on to say, " This is caused by invasion of the Liver channel by cold. The Liver channel flows around the external genitalia, hence the pain and contraction of the scrotum (Cold contracts). (p. 224.) The principle of treatment is to " sedate the Liver, disperse the Cold. " (p. 224.) Spinal curvature can be a failure of Kidney Jing to nourish the bones. People who are predominately Kidney Yang Deficient tend to feel sleepy a lot. People who are predominately Kidney Yin Deficient frequently have trouble sleeping. All that nervous energy. (Not enough Yin to calm them properly. Not enough Yin to " enfold Yang " which is what sleep is from a TCM viewpoint.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Oh Victoria_Dragon thank you so very much for your insight , very much appreciated. :-) I'm gonna print it out and try to get a " game plan " of where to start........... Please correct me if I " m wrong here..... I'm looking to raise Kidney Yang, move Kidney chi, sedate liver & disperse cold, & activate Kidney jing for spinal curvature ???? This is to be done with Herbs, Acupressure and Reiki ??? I have astragalus, schisondra.....would these be beneficial or should I keep searching ? Blessings, Marlene - victoria_dragon Chinese Traditional Medicine Sunday, December 11, 2005 7:17 AM [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: New here and Kidney deficient Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Marlene " <MarleneLawson@p...> wrote: > > His symptoms are trouble holding urine, unable to release bladder completely, frequent trips to the bathroom at night, aversion to cold, weak lower back and knees, impotence (unable to achieve & maintain " full " erection), premature ejaculation, loss of libido, night sweats from the upper back and neck, dull complexion, pale tongue, irritable, > raised right testicle, he also has curvature of the spine and flat feet The thing is that when a person is Kidney Yang Deficient, she's almost certain to also be Kidney Yin Deficient though to a lesser degree. The same applies to a person who is Kidney Yin Deficient. This is why Kidney Yang tonic formulas usually include at least 1 Kidney Yin tonic herb, and Kidney Yin tonic herbs usually include at least 1 Kidney Yang tonic herb. The Kidneys supply Yang and Yin to the rest of the body. Sometimes if the Kidney Yang Deficiency is very severe compared to the Kidney Yin Deficiency, a lot of the symptoms of the Kidney Yin Deficiency may be masked. It's only as the Kidney Yang Deficiency is threated that the Kidney Yin Deficiency becomes apparent. The formula then needs to be changed for the changed clinical picture. Weak lower back and knees are general symptoms of Kidney imbalance. They point to there being some kind of Kidney imbalance, but not which particular one(s). Hating cold, feeling cold a lot, and having trouble warming up point very strongly to Kidney Yang Deficiency. (There also can be problems with feeling cold when there is Blood Deficiency. If Blood Deficiency is also present with Kidney imbalance, keep in mind that in TCM physiology, the Kidneys play an important role in the formation of Blood. Also keep in mind that when there is Kidney Yang Deficiency, there frequently is Spleen Deficiency, and the Spleen plays the most important role in the production of Blood.) (A reminder that TCM Organs are not equivalent to anatomical organs but are collections of functions.) Loss of libido points to Kidney Yang Deficiency. When Kidney Yin Deficiency predominates, a person frequently will want sex a lot. The person may also have a lot of nervous energy. Even though the person is tired, s/he can't sit still. (For readers new to TCM, Yang activates, warms, and dries; Yin calms, cools, and moistens.) People who are Kidney Yin Deficient can also find it hard to meditate. Frequent trips to the bathroom at night (as well as during the day): Kidney Yang Deficiency. The person tends to produce a lot of colorless urine. In contrast, the urine when Kidney Yin Deficiency is predominate tends to be very concentrated, and the person doesn't go to the bathroom very often. People who are Kidney Yang Deficient don't feel thirsty a lot of the time, and when they do, they prefer hot liquids like soup. In contrast a person who is predominately Kidney Yin Deficient has normal thrist or may even be thristy a lot. The person often prefers cool drinks. There's something odd that can be seen with Kidney Yin Deficiency. Even though the person is thirsty, s/he prefers to sip. Oddly enough, Kidney Qi Deficiency (and Bladder Deficiency) can be responsible for incontinence and dribbing as well as for being unable to empty the bladder completely. It takes Qi to move urine. It just doesn't flow out. But it also takes Qi to keep things closed. One of the symptoms of Qi Deficiency in general is what I call " leaks " . Leaks of urine, bowel movements (some cases of diarrhea and what Al Stone called " Leaky Butt " on here), sweat, etc. However night sweats point to Yin Deficiency. Something to be aware of when a person is predominately Kidney Yang Deficient is that part of the reason for night sweats isn't just that the person also is Kidney Yin Deficient. Part of the reason has to do with Kidney Yang Deficient people tending to be very, very cold when they go to bed and really piling the covers on. As they warm up while sleeping, all the extra cover causes them to sweat. Speaking from experience, it's probably best that someone who is strongly Kidney Yang Deficient use the extra cover, and learn to peel off layers of cover during the night as s/he wakes and warms. After the Kidney Yang Deficiency is corrected somewhat, the person can better tolerate feeling a little cool when s/he goes to bed. Please note that I said " a little " . If the person is still at the stage of feeling very cold and even shivering, it's best to pile the covers on. If the person is extremely Kidney Yang Deficient, no amount of cover is going to warm the person. It's going to take soaking in a hot bath before bed and/or heating pads. Something else to keep in mind when a Kidney Yang Deficient person judges how much cover will be enough without being too much later on is that cold damages the Kidneys (and the Spleen). It can be Deficiency Cold (caused by Yang Deficiency - note the snowballing effect of old injuring Kidneys which results in more Yang Deficiency which results in more cold damaging the Kidneys more, and so on). Or, it can be Excess Cold invading from the environment. Since cold damages the Kidneys, this too works to make the person more Yang Deficient. (Cold also attacks Yang; Heat attacks Yin.) Since Kidney Yang Deficient people tend to go to the bathroom a lot at night, they can train themselves to peel off a quilt or blanket each time they get up. A pale tongue points to Yang Deficiency and/or Blood Deficiency. A pale complexion can be Yang Deficiency and/or Blood Deficiency and in some cases Qi Deficiency. The paleness of Blood Deficiency tends to be dull; that of Yang Deficiency tends to be shiny. The retraction of a testicle could be Stagnation of Cold in the Liver Channel. Exterior Cold has invaded the Liver channel. " Fullness and distension of the hypogastrium (just over the bladder) with pain which refers to the scrotum and testis. Straining of the testis or ocntraction of the srotum. In women there can be shrinking of the vagina. The pain is alleviated by warmth. " (Giovanni Maciocia, The Foundations of , p. 224.) Maciocia goes on to say, " This is caused by invasion of the Liver channel by cold. The Liver channel flows around the external genitalia, hence the pain and contraction of the scrotum (Cold contracts). (p. 224.) The principle of treatment is to " sedate the Liver, disperse the Cold. " (p. 224.) Spinal curvature can be a failure of Kidney Jing to nourish the bones. People who are predominately Kidney Yang Deficient tend to feel sleepy a lot. People who are predominately Kidney Yin Deficient frequently have trouble sleeping. All that nervous energy. (Not enough Yin to calm them properly. Not enough Yin to " enfold Yang " which is what sleep is from a TCM viewpoint.) Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Marlene " <MarleneLawson@p...> wrote: > Please correct me if I " m wrong here..... > I'm looking to raise Kidney Yang, move Kidney chi, > sedate liver & disperse cold, & activate Kidney jing for spinal curvature ???? All these are just possibilities. The next step is to rule in or rule out. It would be best to consult a trained TCM herbalist, acupuncturist, or OMD (Oriental Medical Doctor). If one is not in your area or within traveling distance, and you have to learn and cautiously experiement, the next step is to follow this study plan: Learn all you can about Kidney Yin Deficiency and Kidney Yang Deficiency. Make sure you know the symptoms of both very well. This will enable you to realize when you need to adjust the herbs. Too many Yang tonic herbs relative to Yin tonics herbs can create a relative Yin Deficiency (or make an existing one worse). Unless there is Qi Stagnation, it's not that Kidney Qi needs to be moved. What you reported does point to the possibility of Kidney (and Bladder) Qi Deficiency. Learn how Kidney Qi is created. Kidney Yang provides the heat for Kidney Jing and Kidney Yin to produce Kidney Qi. Think about this. Meditate upon it. Try to get an instinctive understanding of what is happening in a holistic setting. After you're comfortable with these concepts, start to learn about Yang tonic and Yin tonic herbs. Use Google and locate an online Materia Medica - a list of all healing substances used in official TCM. You'll be using it often. You may even want to purchase a book Materia Medica. I use the one edited by Bensky and Gamble. Look up dogwood fruit for clues about why it's helping him. Pay very close attention to contraindiations for herbs - the class of the herb as well as the specific herb. Learn to deal with feeling overwhelmed by all there is to learn. Learn to just admit to yourself, " I feel overwhelmed, I was warned I would feel overwhelmed at times, and it will pass. " Learn to pay more attention to what you've learned so far than what you have yet to learn. Take delight in what you've learned so far. When I was teaching computer classes, in general the females as a group did better than the males as a group. (There were exceptions.) Part of the reason why the females tended to have an easier time of it was that so many of them came to the first class with the goal that if they could just learn " to turn the darn thing on " . (This was back in the days when PCs were first becoming widely available.) They quickly learned that, and they were delighted. They looked forward to what they would learn next. On the other hand, the males tended to concentrate more on what they didn't know than what they had learned. They couldn't relax enough to take joy in what they had accomplished, and as a result couldn't look forward to learning more. The learning will come with increased exposure to the material. Also, it helps a lot to have an overview of the subject. That comes with reading and time. It's a whole lot easier for many people to pick out individual trees once they realize what the entire forest looks like. Always ask, " How will this affect the person not just in a linear way but a holistic way? " After a while you get used to automatically doing this. Plus, you have the advantage that you've already started to think holistically. Learn to automatically think in terms of the safest thing to do. Some things are safer to do than others. Proceed very cautiously. Always ask yourself what could go wrong, and be prepared in case it does. You're facing what so many healers face at various times. To do nothing and the person gets sicker or continues suffering, or to cautiously try something that stands a chance of helping. It's a tough decision. BTW, MDs and DOs face this too be it something new in allopathic medicine, learning about TCM, or learning about other alternative healing. At least the really good ones do. Sometimes healers will agonize. Ask the healers on this list to give you input. They can't diagnose via email, but they can give you things to consider, study further, and think about. They can help to guide your learning. If you haven't already, learn to do pulse diagnosis. Start with what is easiest to learn. Fast vs. slow, floating vs. deep. Once you feel confident in your ability to recognize those, it becomes easier to recognize some of the others. Practice on family members and friends. Ideally, find a professional who is willing to intern you in pulse diagnosis. S/he may be willing to trade your working for her/him some for mentoring you in pulse diagnosis. You might want to consider buying a copy of Giovanni Maciocia's The Foundations of . Since it is an expensive text book (even when discount sources are located), get a copy from your local library to see if it's something that will help you. If the library doesn't have a copy but is part of the Interlibrary Loan Program, your local library will put out a call to libraries all over the country to borrow a book for you. In some places this is a free service, in others you pay the book postage for shipping the book. Don't overlook university libraries as they frequently will have a copy of this book. It's respected enough that universities and allopathic medicine school libraries frequently will have a copy of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Thankyou Victoria_dragon for sharing of your wise words. :-) much of what you shared, I am currently going thru........the part about feeling overwhelmed......I have read and read and read and meditated and somehow Creator continues to send bits and pieces to me from various sources......I've taken notes on this and that and continued to read and weed out the parts that Creator tells me doesn't fit.........this has gone on for months, years now and at times it just gets so overwhelming that I just have to put it down for a while and regroup my thoughts before I pick it up again. Then I find Creator sending me another little nudge with a new article, email, or book that seems to have another piece to the puzzle and gets me fired up again ............... Thanks for mentioning that being overwhelmed is part of the process, thought maybe I just wasn't picking up on this as quickly as I should. And it does make it harder as there is no TCM in my area or surrounding area, strange even the local chiropractors are not open to Natural Medicine or TCM............the locals in my area seems to think of it more as a " cult " , they are so hung up on allopathic medicine. Another reason, I believe, that Creator has opened my awareness in Holistic procedures. Your words have been taken to heart and thankyou for putting me more at ease. :-) Blessings, Marlene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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