? about TCM & Buddhism(needles and srotas)

[Guest guest]

Hello Vinod,

Interesting, they needled the channels in the same manner as the

Chinese?

Please, what is the difference between the srotas and the nadis?

And I (reviewing it)agree with you that MTCM is a more accurate

way to refer to what is nowadays called TCM.

May the Hun be with you,.

Marcos

 

 

 

-- Vinod Kumar <vinod3x3 escreveu:

 

>>

> Needling of the Srotas (meridians) was used in India since

> ancient

> times - they used many techniques for toning and sedating

> different

> energy pathways. The theory, diagnostic techniques, and

> treatment

> stratagies of TCM are not different from the Ayurvedic it

> simply

> uses different herbs, modalities, and language - but both are

> Five-

> element systems. this issue pertains to many of the

> five-element

> systems (Tibetan and Japanese) - even reading the various

> Chinese

> Texts reveals a vast difference in approach to the same issues

> (after all the issues are limited) but we can approach the

> issues

> from differwent perspectives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Vinod,

 

--- Vinod Kumar <vinod3x3 escreveu:

 

> Chinese Traditional Medicine , marcos <ishk18>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Vinod,

> > Interesting, they needled the channels in the same manner as

> the

> > Chinese?

> > Please, what is the difference between the srotas and the

> nadis?

> > And I (reviewing it)agree with you that MTCM is a more

> accurate

> > way to refer to what is nowadays called TCM.

> > May the Hun be with you,.

> > Marcos

>

> They did not needle the channels in the same way as the modern

> Chinese - but neither did the Chinese use needles in ancient

> times

> as they do now.

 

Yes, there where changes, and there are so many ways of tonifying

and sedating, harmonizing. But how did they stimulate the

channels? There is far too little information on this(if any),

and i would much appreciate any contribution you could make.

 

Nadi's are the pathways of the nervous system -

>

> Srotas are the same as meridians. These channels are the energy

>

> pathways of the organs themselves and also they are the

> channels

> through which the organs and the different sides of the body

> communicate with each other. They are extraneous to the nervous

>

> system and perform differnt functions from the Nervous system.

> Nadi

> is nervous system and srota is meridian system - both are under

> the

> control of Vata dosha (they facilatate motion and activity).

 

Vata is related to wind, right?

 

> Both

> systems are obviously associated with Qi since they move energy

> -

> the movement is Qi and the thing moved is Qi.

>

> Many schools have recognized a system of circulation which is

> called

> by differnt names (meridian, srota, etc.)but this system is

> understood in slightly different ways by different schools -

> and the

> ways of minipulation of this system are differentin the

> different

> schools. As example in China today there are several schools of

>

> accupuncture - my prejudice is for the Five-Element system -

> although I am not an Accupucturist - still I prefer a pure

> Five-

> Element system for all diagnosis and treatment.

>

> In Tibet they have a slightly different system. I met the great

> Dr.

> Dolma who was an authority in using moxa on the head points.

> They

> perform miraculous cures treating these Points with emphasis in

>

> balancing the CNS and ANS.

 

Interesting, it seems they do not use much needles, but retained

moxa(they live in a predominantly cold country), the head points

they use for psychological problems mostly?

 

 

the Tibetan Lamas use a ssytem of

> manipulating head points for 'spiritual' development. I have

> met

> many Tibetan Lamas - including the Dalai Lama - they have

> little

> scar patterns on their heads from the manipulation of these

> points

> in different ways.

 

I saw Buddhist monks in China (in films), they had(have) this

tradition of scar marks on the crown of the head as well(Buddhist

esoteric acupuncture?)

 

> In Ayurveda the points on the Srotas are called Marma points -

> there

> are many schools of manipulating the Marma points several books

> have

> been written in modern times on Marma therapy.

>

> Yogi's believe that the major benefits of asana practice are

> strengthening of the nadis, opening of the joints, and

> stretching of

> the Srota - this combined with diet therapy and mind control is

>

> considered a cure for all non-genetic disease processes. This

> is the

> system practiced by my father.

>

> The various systems of movement therapy developed in China and

> other

> countries are based on manipilation of the maridians (Chi Kung.

> Tai

> Chi, etc.). There are also several schools of massage therapy

> derived from these schools of thought - again I prefer the

> Eive-

> Element System of massage. In South India we have a system of

> martial arts called Kalari which is based on prana develpoment

> -

> this sytem has developed an elaborate system of manipulating

> the

> Marma points that cures injuries from fighting - there are

> several

> clinics here that use these theories to treat a variety of

> diseases -

> accident injuries, arthritis, paralysis, etc. Kalari is taught

> by a

> hand full of famous families and many of these families have

> develpoed independent schools of therapy - based on ancient

> theories

> of healing - that are actually off-shoot schools of the ancient

>

> Dravidian system that is somewhat different from Ayurveda.

> Southeast Asia has several schoolsof channel manipulation from

> the

> famous Thai massage system (one of the worlds best systems in

> the

> hands of a mastter) - Indonesia has it's on school, etc.

>

> Your mentioning TCM and MTCM is important to understand because

>

> there is a huge theoretical battle going on between

> the 'traditionalists' and the 'modern' theorists. The old

> school

> says - we are the pure unadulterated your school is an

> unneeded hybrid - that does not have suffecient experience

> behind it

> to be validated. The new school says the old school is primitve

> and

> needs updating to suit modern disease processes and social

> considerations - plus new therapies have been discovered.

> Actually

> the MTCM school is the one generally supported by the

> government

> since it is a synthasis school of Eastern and Western -

> therfore

> considered more 'modern'. I am on the side of both schools of

> thought - becuase I belive the old masters's were complete in

> their

> theory - but it is true that new techniques of therapy and ways

> of

> using herbs have been developed in the past century. Many out

> of

> date therapies and formulas are being revived because of their

> usefulness in modern times (some are being modified for modern

> cases)- this as an example is happening in the revival of the

> Central Chi formulas that we have discussed recently. Xiao Yao

> Wan

> as an example is being used in differnt ways today than in the

> past -

> most traditional physicians see Rambling Pills as a classic

> medicine for PMS and other blocked Qi female disorders. Yet

> today it

> is seen as an important medicine in many stagnation problems.

> Exmple

> may athletes use it to keep Qi flowing - it is frequently used

> nowadays for Liver stagnation (a primary theory for the

> development

> of the formula in the first place).

>

> Medicine is not static it has always been evolving and adapting

> to

> new conditions - we are nowhere near the development of

> a 'completed' medical system - the next years are going to see

> an

> explosion of medical thought - I for one am happy to see this

> development - but what we have to be careful of is to make sure

> that

> our new 'developments' are not in contradiction to the

> enlightened

> masters of the past. In fact using the framework of the great

> and

> glorious past to hang our 'new' ideas is a good starting point

> for a

> trully new and 'valid' system of improved theraputics. This is

> my

> approach. My father is a very strict traditionalist and I am a

> very

> broad ranging modernist. So far he and I do not feel that we

> have

> parted ways in our theoretical understandings.

>

> Some have wondered why I always refer to my father - this is

> because

> in my mind he is the symbol of the pure traditional way of

> thinking

> as opposed to many subjects we discuss here which I see

> diferently

> than the traditionalists - it is not that I disagree with them

> - it

> is that I think the traditional systems need to be adapted to

> modern

> lifestyle and economic situations. Example traditional medicene

> in

> traditional society is cheap - in modern society it is not - so

> I

> feel it is the responsibility of modern thinkers to help make

> medicine affordable and accessable to the widest number of

> people.

> Theraputics is in revolution and i agree that it needs it - but

> we

> must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

> Actually the signs in general look good for the future.

 

If traditional and modern ways unite, it will be good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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