TCM as a career

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have a question for the members of the board, especially those

working in or running practices. I am seriously considering

choosing Chinese medicine as a career. I really like the way it

works, and I like how it has many seemingly simple remedies that are

very effective, and can make huge differences in people's lives. I

also think at this point in America, there is too big of a focus on

the western medicine (which for the most part is emergency

treatment) and there are not enough people involved in Chinese

medicine (which is more preventative and maintenance). I mean it is

obvious that both are very effective, and both have a sizeable share

to offer towards medicine.

 

I am wondering what peoples experiences are when they are asked what

they do for a living, and reply to some effect ?

Let me try to explain a little bit better. Every career has a

general energy about it. When someone says I am an engineer,

everyone gets a picture in mind. A lot of times the picture might

be, someone who is very detail oriented, very logical, very good at

math, and somewhat to very geeky, and overall a respectable

professional. A lawyer might be looked at as logical,

argumentative, on top of things, most lawyers have a lot of energy

and passion, and at the same time somewhat eccentric, and overall

they too are viewed as a professional. And so on and so on.

Obviously there are those that oppose Chinese medicine to the point

in saying that it is not professional, and it is quackery, and

primitive medicine and all the other things they say about it. But

overall are you treated as a respectable professional that has merit

and can do great things for people's health?

 

My other question is what is/are the general type(s) of people that

come in looking for Chinese medicine? The main reason why I ask

this is I can handle very well people that come in and just need a

health care advocate of sorts, someone to explain maybe why their

body is doing what it is doing, and what you could do treatment wise

to bring about some more favorable results. The thing I think I

would have a hard time with is if my practice got too many of the

sympathy seekers. The kind of person that doesn't really want to do

anything different, but wants all the imbalances and problems to

just go away, or the kind that seems to almost want problems so

others will give them sympathy. I feel I could work with several of

those kinds of people at any given time, but if I got to the point

where 1 in 2 people I saw were like that, I feel like it would drain

my energy and I wouldn't be able to continue for very long. Has

anyone experienced patients like this and what do you do to retain

your energy so you don't feel worn out and exhausted?

 

Thank you for your time and responses!

Rex

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mrasmm " <mrasmm wrote:

 

> Obviously there are those that oppose Chinese medicine to the

point

> in saying that it is not professional, and it is quackery, and

> primitive medicine and all the other things they say about it.

But

> overall are you treated as a respectable professional that has

merit

> and can do great things for people's health?

 

Hopefully one chooses a career based not on what others think but

based on what is a match for the individual. It's important to be

true to self when chosing a career.

 

And, just because a person claims to be scientific and may even have

degrees in science, that doesn't mean that the person always is

scientific. There is nothing scientific about pooh-poohing TCM if

one has not checked it and its track record out. TCM's perspective

is very different from that of allopathic medicine, but that doesn't

make one correct and the other wrong. Both have their place. Bob

Flaws compares this to the use of maps. One never asks what is the

only correct map - milage, topographical, average rainfall, planting

season, etc. - because they each have their uses and each is valid

in the context of that use.

 

> The thing I think I

> would have a hard time with is if my practice got too many of the

> sympathy seekers. The kind of person that doesn't really want to

do

> anything different, but wants all the imbalances and problems to

> just go away, or the kind that seems to almost want problems so

> others will give them sympathy. I feel I could work with several

of

> those kinds of people at any given time, but if I got to the point

> where 1 in 2 people I saw were like that, I feel like it would

drain

> my energy and I wouldn't be able to continue for very long. Has

> anyone experienced patients like this and what do you do to retain

> your energy so you don't feel worn out and exhausted?

 

One can run into people like that in any setting in life, not just

healing. However, TCM does offer some help for at least some people

like this. In order to understand why TCM can help at least some of

them, it's necessary to have an overview of TCM as it relates to

mental and emotional problems. This is some general info for list

members who are new to TCM.

 

First, TCM's view of the mind-body connection (actually body-mind-

emotions-spirit connection) is far more sophisticated and practical

than that of allopathic medicine. Keep in mind as you read this that

TCM doesn't really differenciate between mind and body. I do when I

write about it because so many of the list members are Westerners,

and this approach usually works best for Westerners.

 

TCM looks at imbalances that can occur in the body. These are

called " Roots " . In TCM ALL symptoms are considered, and emotions are

looked upon as being diagnostic. For example, it's no coincidence

that people with severe mental illnesses (psychoses) usually have

severe physical health problems. The same Root underlying the severe

psychological problems also underlies the severe physical problems.

When that Root is treated, both the physical and the mental symptoms

start to ease.

 

I want to make a small detour here to mention that in the US

emotions used to be far more diagnostic of physical health than they

are today. For example, doctors and nurses in training were taught

that when a patient appears or comes across as angry, that the

person may be in pain. When confronted with a patient who came

across as angry, doctors and nurses automatically considered the

possibility of pain and ruled it in or ruled out.

 

Another example is that people with undiagnosed and mild asthma

freqently will appear anxious. The breathing problems may not be

severe enough for the person consciously to realize s/he has

breathing problems or the patient may be in denial, but at some

level the person knows, and anxiety is a normal result of having any

problems breathing. When a person looks anxious and complains of

fatigue, consider and rule in or out the possibility of undiagnosed

and mild asthma.

 

Western allopathic medicine lost a lot of diagnostic power when it

stopped recognizing that emotional responses can be a tremendous

aide in the proper diagnosis of physical problems and instead

started fobbing patients (regardless of the constellation of

symptoms) off to mental health professionals. Some of the mental

health professionals don't like it either because they know that the

problems of some of these patients fall outside their area of

expertise and the patients need a MD or DO.

 

All too often Westerners act like the two-way street between mind

and body is one-way going from mind to body. At best some give only

lip-service to the concept that physical health problems can trigger

emotional manifestations. TCM never lost this realization. Though I

want to caution again that TCM doesn't view it strictly as A causes

B or B causes A but also recognizes that in some cases both the

physical and mental symptoms are coming from the same Root.

 

TCM recognizes that each of the Organs is particularly vulnerable to

one or more emotions. (The word " Organ " is captialized because TCM

Organs are not equivalent to anatomical organs. They are

collections of functions.) For example, fear and fright can weaken

the Kidneys. Sadness and grief can weaken the Lungs and diminish

Qi. Etc.

 

Now here's where TCM gets really sophisticated. It recognizes that

once Organ imbalance has occured from whatever trigger - viral, life

style, bacterial, fungus, excessive sex, toxins, trauma, diet,

improper use of herbs, exhaustion, emotions, etc. - the person is

going to be more prone to feeling the particular emotion. It's a

snowballing situation. The increased tendency to certain emotions

further weakens the Organ which in turn makes the person even more

prone to feeling that particular emotion which weakens the Organ

still more, and so on.

 

If the TCM diagnosis and treatment are correct, there will be a

lessening and even disappearance of not only the physical symptoms

but also any emotional symptoms. In regards to the kind of people

you described, TCM healers automatically are going to suspect and

rule in or rule out Weak Gall Bladder and/or Kidney imbalance. There

are some other possibles as well. Those are just two of the most

common.

 

In some cases physical treatment will be all that is needed to break

the self-pepetuating cycle. In some cases, the client also will

need some kind of therapy to break the cycle. A client who is

receiving help from herbs, acupuncture, acupressure, massage, diet,

etc. is a lot more apt to benefit from therapy than one who is not.

In some cases the client will need the physical help before s/he is

strong enough to undergo therapy.

 

Getting back to the example I used of how emotions used to be more

diagnostic in the West, allopathic medicine has no way of explaining

or understanding why people who are in pain frequently will appear

angry. But TCM understands why. The Liver is the Organ most

responsible for the smooth and even flow of Qi in the body, and the

Liver is particularly vulnerable to anger and frustration. One of

the symptoms of Qi Stagnation is pain. Keep in mind the two-way

street and how once imbalance occurs from any trigger, the person is

going to be more prone to feeling the particular emotions. If Blood

Stasis also develops, the person can be suffering some heavy-duty

pain. Note to students on the list: Pain can cause Qi to rebel -

ascend when it should descend. It also can play a role in Liver

constraint.

[Guest guest]

First off I would like to say thank you for replying to my post.

 

Secondly it might do good for me to clarify a little. The comment

you made about how a person shouldn't choose a career based one what

others think is entirely all too true. Many people do things for

other people with their lives and then wonder why they never feel

satisfied. So I agree with what you are saying completely. What I

am talking about when I am asking these questions is something like

if someone felt like it was completely their life calling to be a

nurse, but passed out every time they saw blood, then nursing

probably isn't the career they are meant for. Likewise if someone

is physically robust and somewhat fidgety, a desk job probably

wouldn't suit them, even if all other aspects would. So basically

what I am trying to ask is what others experiences are with these

sorts of things to get a clearer picture of what I am looking at.

 

I have heard the comparison to maps before, and it is indeed a great

one, it fits very well in the situation. Just because you have a

map of a city doesn't mean you know that a bird lives on the ledge

above your apartment, or what kind of person lives next door. Only

the real thing can tell you those things, but at the same time maps

definitely have their usefulness, and application, just as most

things in life. What a perfect analogy!

 

I agree with the fact that TCM has great usefulness in treating

people just as you described. What my concern is that if I dealt

with a high percentage of people like this, I could see it wearing

me out, so I was wondering what people's experiences are in actual

clinical settings. I indeed do want to help people out like this,

because I think it is very meaningful, satisfying, and I think

otherwise a lot of these kinds of people would be left with no

recourse, and struggle greatly throughout life. I just don't think

I can be that intense with every, or every other patient.

 

I really agree that TCM's view serves a bigger purpose in the

overall scheme of things in that it views the body and mind as a

spectrum of the overall individual. They interact with each other

in almost every way, and are essentially inseparable. The only

place where I can see that it is not all that essential that they

are joined is in emergency and trauma situations, which is exactly

what western medicine is good at consequently.

 

I agree that moods are very diagnostic, and especially in the ways

you mentioned about pain coming out as anger and such. I had never

made the connection about anxiety and mild asthma though. But I

think it is a very keen observation, and seems to be true.

 

It is unfortunate how much people with real illness (as viewed in

Chinese medicine) are carted off to mental professionals, because in

all reality they don't belong exclusively in one place or the

other. They need someone who knows and can treat both, or a team of

treatment providers that can communicate very well, and have the

time to do so. Most often times this phenomenon is completely

overlooked in western medicine, and is compartmentalized. I feel

that people are not compartmentalized, and should not be treated

that way, as to most supporters of TCM. I feel that the public is

starting to demand different things out of healthcare, such as

contiguous healthcare that treats the parts, but also looks at how

the parts play out together, and the overall completeness of the

picture at the end of treatment. For an analogy, I don't think that

an employer would be very satisfied with a gardener if they took

immaculate care of the flower beds, but let weeds run rampant

through the lawn and sidewalks.

 

I completely agree with your view point on the usefulness of Chinese

medicine, and that is a big part of the reason why I want to go into

it. I think the field could use some good intentioned people that

are quick witted and take the time and energy to get the education

to be able to offer the service to others, as I really feel it has a

great benefit to offer. Thank you for your response and your

insight =)

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mrasmm " <mrasmm wrote:

>

> What I

> am talking about when I am asking these questions is something

like

> if someone felt like it was completely their life calling to be a

> nurse, but passed out every time they saw blood, then nursing

> probably isn't the career they are meant for. Likewise if someone

> is physically robust and somewhat fidgety, a desk job probably

> wouldn't suit them, even if all other aspects would.

 

One finds the niche within the field that one fits, and/or one works

on one's own problems and issues. For example, a fidgety person may

be Yin Deficient. Correct the Yin Deficiency, and the person no

longer is fidgety. The person may always have a a higher need for

activity than most people have. So the person finds the niche in

desk jobs where s/he also gets out into the field a lot or is

required to travel more than most people with desk jobs are required

to travel.

 

I want to talk for a moment about finding niches/ alternatives

because this is going to come up a lot with disabled clients,

especially those who have CFIDS (Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction

Syndrome). The PWCs (People With CFIDS) who find some variation of

who and what they are do a lot better and have a better prognosis

than those who do not. For example, by nature and by training I am

an engineer. I automatically approach things in a " see the problem,

analyze the problem, and solve the problem (or at least improve it) "

manner. I didn't stop being an engineer just because I got sick.

What happened is that see, analyze, and solve approach got switched

over to my health problems and those of others. I am still being

true to myself.

 

On an apptitude test I scored the second highest (and quite

strongly) in medicine. Funny how I ended up in a niche that just

happens to combine medicine and an engineer's talents. I obviously

didn't plan it. If I had, I would have come up with a better way to

do it than having CFIDS. But I didn't know about the importance of

people being true to themselves when I was in my teens and twenties,

and nobody was telling me this stuff. It was strictly learn as you

go. BTW, I scored the 3rd and 4th highest in psychology and law

though I don't remember the order. I can see the psychology part,

but not the law.

 

Sometimes the need to be true to oneself will spur one onto facing

and dealing with personal issues. For example, the person who is by

nature a nurse but faints at the sight of blood may be spurred to

overcome the blood problem. If the person didn't want to become a

nurse so badly, the person would never face and deal with the blood

problem.

 

> I agree with the fact that TCM has great usefulness in treating

> people just as you described. What my concern is that if I dealt

> with a high percentage of people like this, I could see it wearing

> me out, so I was wondering what people's experiences are in actual

> clinical settings. I indeed do want to help people out like this,

> because I think it is very meaningful, satisfying, and I think

> otherwise a lot of these kinds of people would be left with no

> recourse, and struggle greatly throughout life. I just don't

think

> I can be that intense with every, or every other patient.

 

It may very well be part of your life's work to become an expert on

people like this and in issues having to do with dependency and

independence. But you're going to have to heal and strengthen

yourself first.

 

One thing one looks at from a TCM standpoint is the health of the

Po - the Corporeal Soul. I'm going into some basic background here

for the list members who are new to TCM and for the beginning TCM

students.

 

The Corporeal Soul is one of those TCM concepts that can sound

really, really wierd to a lot of Westerners. For one thing,

it " resides " in the Lungs. The usual reminder that the names of TCM

Organs are capitalized because they are not equivalent to anatomical

organs. They are collections of functions. There's not a ghost

living in your lungs. What this means is that the set of functions

known collectively as the Lungs in TCM has a lot to do with the

overall physical health of the person.

 

As for what the Corporeal Soul is: " Some modern doctors consider the

Corporeal Soul the 'basic regulatory activity of all physiological

funcitons of the body'. In this sense it is the manifestation of

the Lung function of regulating all physiological activities. "

(Giovanni Maioia, The Practice of , p.206 quoting

Zhao You Chen 1979 of Liao Ning, no. 5, p. 24.)

 

One of the first things people learn about the Lungs is that they

play a very big role in the Defensive Qi, aka Protective Qi, that

circulates at the surface of the body and gives people protection

against external Pernicious Evils (weather and other environmental

conditions). The Corporeal Soul protects us from other things.

 

" The Corporeal Soul is related to our life as individuals while the

Ethereal Soul is responsible for our relations with other people.

Just as the Lung's Defensive-Qi protects the body from external

pathogenic factors on a physical level, on a mental level the

Corporeal Soul protects the individual from external psychic

influences. Some people are very easily affected by negative

influences: this is due to a weakness of the Corporeal Soul. "

(Maciocia, p. 206.)

 

In other words the health of the Corporeal Soul has a lot to do with

being worn out by disagreeable people and negatively influenced by

them.

 

This doesn't mean that if your Corporeal Soul is strong that you're

to stay around disagreeable people. Some can be worked with and

helped, but some need to be cut loose. The Lungs also have to do

with issues that involve letting go. One gains wisdom in learning to

recognize which is which.

 

I want to say something about the role of society, communities, and

families in helping to create the type of people you describe -

overly passive, waiting for and expecting others to wave a magic

wand for them and make everything in their lives OK, showing no

initiative, etc. One of the effects of modern advertising is to

create people like this. They are the perfect consumers, always

looking for something outside themselves to fulfill themselves,

always looking to gain legitimacy by proxy.

 

Abusive families and communities also tend to produce people like

this because initiative and independence tend to punished and

passiveness rewarded. Also there is a deliberate effort by abusers

to convince others that they're incapable of helping themselves.

This makes them easier to manipulate and use.

 

The strength of the Corporeal Soul depends on the strength of the

Jing (Essence). Beginning students, don't worry about understanding

what that means. This is just your intro to the concept. All you

have to remember at this point is that the health of the Corporeal

Soul has something to do with the health of the Jing (Essence) and

the Kidneys.

 

Please also keep in mind that people who are very, very sick are not

going to be capable of helping themselves very much. What's being

discussed above are people who are this way even when they're not

very, very sick. The helplessness is not a byproduct of being very,

very sick but the way they have been conditioned to be in all areas

of their lives. In the case of someone who is very, very sick, as

soon as there is improvement, you're going to see them take more and

more control of their lives. This doesn't happen in the case of

someone who has been conditioned to be this way. That negative-

conditioning will have to be addressed. Fortunately there are things

in TCM that can make it easier for the person to do this.

[Guest guest]

What you are saying about a person overcomming things because they

know where they fit I see is true. Like the example of someone who

knows they are a nurse before they ever gain the training, will have

a much greater ability to over come the situation of the sight of

blood.

 

I see what you mean about what might be my life's work. It's kind

of weird that sometimes I can handle people like that very well, and

at other times I have an intolerance for them pretty much. I pretty

much can handle people very well (better than most) when I feel like

I have energy. When I don't feel like I have much energy, I am

quite intolerant, more than most. With that said there is something

that I have that is an imbalance that creates that intolerance and

needs to be healed before I get off too deep in to it.

 

The other question I had was when I went to my Chinese Dr, he

explained to me that Kidney Yin was the essence. He said Jing

problems are difficult to put your finger on and Qi and Yin problems

follow a specific list. Hrm, maybe his translation was off.

 

I do see what you mean about modern advertising creating that, in

addition to society. I call it lack of personal accountibility

disease. Those types of people are having a hard time taking on and

living their life like they are their own Agent here on earth. They

act more like the things put on this earth that are to be acted

upon, even though they have been given the God-like quality to act.

 

What you are talking about of sick people not being able to help

themselves because of an extensive disease situation is right up my

alley. I feel that I am very good at that. I guess that just makes

more sense to me, and so when diseased people are angry and harsh, I

can easily see through it and see that it has much less to do with

me, and much more to do with the state of energy and pain, it is

very easy for me to not let that effect me.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think TCM is right for me

and fits me very well. I just would like to know what clinical

situations are like besides the Doctor that I go to, as he is not

too talkitive and doesn't really explain things all of the time. I

think it is more his personality though, rather than TCM in general.

 

I am curious your expirence with CDIFS and why you bring up finding

niches and alternatives. Is this something you have seen alot of?

Or maybe a personal expirence type thing? Overall what is your

expirence of treating it? Like maybe what are some common threads

in the disease and treatments you have expirenced?

 

Thank you for insight time and responses, as you seem to be very

knowedgeable in the subject =)

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mrasmm " <mrasmm wrote:

>

> I see what you mean about what might be my life's work. It's kind

> of weird that sometimes I can handle people like that very well,

and

> at other times I have an intolerance for them pretty much. I

pretty

> much can handle people very well (better than most) when I feel

like

> I have energy. When I don't feel like I have much energy, I am

> quite intolerant, more than most. With that said there is

something

> that I have that is an imbalance that creates that intolerance and

> needs to be healed before I get off too deep in to it.

 

Your niche may be to learn all you can about energy.

 

I get very irritable when I'm tired. It's one of the symptoms that

tells me I've overdone physically and need to rest.

 

> I am curious your expirence with CDIFS and why you bring up

finding

> niches and alternatives. Is this something you have seen alot of?

 

I used to be active in CFIDS support groups. One thing that I and

others noticed is that the PWCs who can still do some variation some

time of what and who they are cope better and have a better

prognosis than those who don't. For example, one man who used to be

very active in business organizations and in giving speeches started

giving speeches to these groups about CFIDS. Obviously some

occupations lend themselves to this better than others. I can't

imagine what someone who is say a pilot would substitute for that.

 

> Or maybe a personal expirence type thing? Overall what is your

> expirence of treating it? Like maybe what are some common threads

> in the disease and treatments you have expirenced?

 

Like so many things, the longer it goes on, the longer it takes to

treat. I came down with this in the early 70s ten years before the

outbreak in Incline Village, Nevada first started to bring what

would become known as CFS and then CFIDS to the attention of the

public and the medical establishment. I didn't get the proper

diagnosis until I'd already had it about 20 years. I didn't know

about TCM until a few years after that.

 

At the worst I was having to crawl to the bathroom at night and

didn't have the energy to sit up and watch TV. Not that I could

follow the most mindless sitcom on TV. For a while I couldn't use a

computer or even read. When I recovered to the point where I could

read and write some, I was dyslexic. That eventually went away. I'm

not cured, but as you can tell there has been considerable

improved. I'm even able to garden some and sometimes build and

repair things around the house. If someone like me who was sick so

long before getting the help I needed and who got as sick as I did

can make that much improvement, there's definitely a lot of hope for

people who haven't been sick for a long time.

 

Some of the common things that people will say that point to the

strong possibility of them having CFIDS is that exercise (or

overdoing) makes them sicker. You'll also hear things like I have

to rest up to do anything special and then rest up afterwards to

recover. Also, I never know from moment to moment, hour to hour, or

day to day how I'm going to feel so I hate to make plans. Also, PWCs

typically will say that alcohol makes them sicker.

 

PWCs were not treated very well by the medical establishment. As a

result PWCs began to organize and take things into our own hands.

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mrasmm " <mrasmm wrote:

>

> The other question I had was when I went to my Chinese Dr, he

> explained to me that Kidney Yin was the essence. He said Jing

> problems are difficult to put your finger on and Qi and Yin problems

> follow a specific list. Hrm, maybe his translation was off.

 

" Yin " and " Yang " are both specific terms and general classifiations.

For example when one talks about " Liver Yin " , " Heart Yin " , " Kidney

Yin " . etc., one is talking about something that is specific. When one

sees sentences like, " Essence is Yin " , " Blood is Yin " , " Qi is Yang " ,

etc., one is talking about board classifications.

 

I need to go into something in greater detail about this - especially

for the beginning TCM students on the list. When the terms Yin and

Yang are used in a general sense, it's always in relation to something

else. Writers don't always spell this out because it's such an

integral part of TCM and Chinese thinking. It's more correct to

say " Blood is Yin compared to Qi which is Yang, and Qi is Yang

compared to Blood which is Yin. " " The back of the body is Yang

compared to the front which is Yin. " Sometimes on tests students will

need to spell these comparisons out or lose points. Thinking in terms

of comparisons also needs to become automatic. It's a part of why TCM

developed along holistic lines. The Chinese automatically look at

things in the context of how they relate to other things.

 

Giovanni Maciocia writes, " Essense is fluid-like and naturally belongs

to Yin; it can therefore be considered as an aspect of Kidney-Yin. In

addition, it provides the material basis for Kidney-Yin to produce

Kidney-Qi by the heating action of Kidney-Yang. " (The Foundations of

, p. 40.)

 

Genetic disorders are classified as Jing (Essence) Disorders though

Jing Disorders are not limited to genetic disorders.

[Guest guest]

So let me make sure i am hearing you correctly. Jing overall is the

essence? and Kidney Yin could be considered the Kidney essence? If

that is correct, what is Kidney Jing?

 

Thanks =)

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mrasmm " <mrasmm wrote:

>

> So let me make sure i am hearing you correctly. Jing overall is the

> essence? and Kidney Yin could be considered the Kidney essence? If

> that is correct, what is Kidney Jing?

 

" Essence " is Maciocia's (and others') translation of the word " Jing " .

 

Kidney Yin (used in a specific sense) is not necessarily Kidney Jing,

but Kidney Jing is an aspect of Kidney Yin (used in a board category

sense). Just like when one talks about Blood being Yin (in nature).

Think of Yin/Yang being form/ force. Maciocia writes, " Essence is

fluid-like, Qi is energy-like. " (The Foundations of ,

p. 39.)

 

For most people Jing is a very difficult concept to understand. It's

one of those concepts that will become clearer after you learn more

about TCM. But for a while, prepare to be and accept feeling confused

by the concept. That will pass eventually.

 

There are 3 common terms you'll hear in relation to Jing: Pre-Heaven

Jing, Post-Heaven Jing, and Kidney Jing.

 

" Conception is a blending of the sexual energies of man and woman to

form what the ancient Chinese called the 'Pre-Heaven Essence' of the

newly conceived human being. This Essence nourishes the embryo and

fetus during pregnancy and is also dependent on nourishment derived

from the mother's Kidneys. " (p. 38.)

 

Maciocia also writes, " Since it is inherited from the parents at

conception, the Pre-Heaven Essence can be influenced only with

difficulty in the course of adult life. Some say this Essence

is 'fixed' in quantity and quality. However, it can be positively

affected, even if not quantitatively increased. " (p. 38.)

 

The " Post-Heaven Jing " (after the birth; " Pre-Heaven " is before) comes

from the food the person eats. " The complex of essences refined and

extracted from food are collectively known as 'Post-Heaven Essene'.

Because the Stomach and Spleen are responsible for the digestion of

food and the transformation and transportation of food essences

ultimately leading to the production of Qi, the Post-Heaven Essence is

closely related to Stomach and Spleen. " (pp. 38 - 39.)

 

Kidney Jing derives from both Pre-Heaven and Post-Heaven Jing. Post-

Heaven Jing replenishes it. (p. 39.)

 

Kidney Jing " is stored in the Kidneys, but having a fluid nature it

also circulates all over the body, particularly in the 8 Extraordinary

Vessels. " (p. 39.) (The 8 Extraordinary Vessels are special meridians

in addition to the usual 12.)

 

Like so much in TCM, Jing is best understood in terms of its

functions. There are 4 main ones.

 

1. " Growth, reproduction and development "

 

Jing governs stages of life and maturing. Females follow 7-year

cycles, and males follow 8-year cycles. At age 7 a girl's Kidney

energy is abundant, and at age 8, a boy's is abundant. Jing has to do

with the development of the teeth and bones, pubity, mentruation in

females, and physical decline. (p. 39.)

 

2. " The Essence as basis of Kidney-Qi. "

 

This was covered in the previous post. " Kidney-Essence is necessary

for the transformation of Kidney-Yin into Kidney-Qi through the

warming action of Kidney-Yang. " (p. 40.)

 

3. " The Essence produces Marrow " .

 

First, note the capital letter. Like so much in TCM, the term is not

equivalent to the Western anatomical term. In fact, in the case of

Marrow (with a capital M), there is " no equivalent in Western

medicine. " (p. 40.) The Chinese recognize that Marrow produces bone

marrow, but Western medicine doesn't recognize a pre-step in the

formation of marrow called Marrow. They both do recognize that the

kidneys/ Kidneys play a role in the formation of heathy bones.

 

However, bone marrow is not the only thing that deriveds from

Marrow. " The Essence produes Marrow, which, in turn, produces bone

marrow and fille the spinal cord and the brain. Thus, 'Marrow' is a

substance which is the common matrix of the bone marrow, brain and

spinal cord. " (p. 40.)

 

The Brain is called " The Sea of Marrow " in TCM. " Thus, if the Kidney-

Essence is weak, the brain may lack nourishment and the person may

lack concentration and memory and suffer from dizziness and a feeling

of emptiness of the head. " (p. 40.)

 

4. " The Essence as the basis of constitutional strength "

 

It's not only the constitution strength but also one's resistence to

Pernicious Evils (Heat, Cold, Wind, Damp, Dryness) and pathogens in

the environment. Even though the Defensive Qi plays the major role in

protecting the body from things in the environment, " it also draws its

strength and has its root in the Kidney-Essence. " (p. 40.)

 

These concepts will start to feel more natural the more you learn

about TCM. Sometimes in order for things to become more clear later,

they have to get more confusing for a time. That's a part of getting

that board overview.

[Guest guest]

> Chinese Traditional Medicine , " mrasmm " <mrasmm

> wrote:

> >

> > The other question I had was when I went to my Chinese Dr, he

>

> > explained to me that Kidney Yin was the essence. He said

> Jing

> > problems are difficult to put your finger on and Qi and Yin

> problems

> > follow a specific list. Hrm, maybe his translation was off.

 

 

The thing is that Jing usually means sexual energy, akin to

kundalini of yoga. Chinese normally get a bit awkward when

speaking of this subject, so that's probably the reason he said

what he said(by the translation, that is). TCM, or more exactly,

Taoist teaching, advises men to abstain from ejaculation so that

they will not 'waste their Jing'. It's quirte interesting, all

the practices of transforming jing into chi that was devised by

the taoists yogis.

Marcos

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

That is an interesting insight. People that have character usually

get pretty timid talking about subjects like that, I agree, and it's

probably a good thing even. I should probably just learn the pinyin

in addition to the translation, and that would help everything out.

It's good to have a place where people know all this stuff so I can

ask when I have a question. Thanks for your reply =)

[Guest guest]

That depends on what you understand by character, it seems to me

to be just upbringin, many cultures have this 'timidity' about

sex, it comes from social taboos, if it is a good thing or not is

very relative. The old taoist masters where anything BUT timid,

the confucionist scholars where the uptight ones, if that's where

you feel confortable, so be it, but don't judge others for not

following your scrip.

 

Marcos

 

--- mrasmm <mrasmm escreveu:

 

> That is an interesting insight. People that have character

> usually

> get pretty timid talking about subjects like that, I agree, and

> it's

> probably a good thing even. I should probably just learn the

> pinyin

> in addition to the translation, and that would help everything

> out.

> It's good to have a place where people know all this stuff so I

> can

> ask when I have a question. Thanks for your reply =)

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

_____

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[Guest guest]

I don't mean to sound judgmental, and I reread what I wrote. I can

see how it comes off that way. The word character is not the word I

am looking for. I am not by any means saying that people have no

character if they talk about sex openly. I guess what I am trying

to say is that in a healthcare professional situation, sometimes

people get very uncomfortable if you talk about sex too much, even

if it is all medically related. So a professional who is mindful

about how patients feel will usually be timid or conserved when

talking about it, especially until they feel the situation out, and

see where the boundaries of the individual are, and where their own

personal boundaries and how the two relate. On the other hand, if

you had someone who talked about it too openly, some patients might

never come back, and that again too is all relative. If you want to

talk about sex openly with your patients, then obviously you would

rather have patients that want to do likewise, and you would rather

not have patients that feel uncomfortable when it gets openly talked

about. I do see what you mean about being judgmental, and that was

not at all what I was trying to express. I was trying to express,

yes I see what you mean, a lot of people are timid about it,

especially those in the healthcare, because I mean if I was a young

woman and I went into my Dr and he started asking too many

unprofessional questions, it would not be a comfortable situation.

I feel that in healthcare as a professional it generally is a good

thing to be on the timid or conservative side about sexual type

subjects. On the other hand, if there is something that you really

need to know, then you need to be forward enough to ask and find out.

 

So in a nut shell, I am not judging anyone, I am rather sharing

personal experience, and I did not use the word I was really looking

for (the word I used was character, and more so what I meant was

that a mindful healthcare professional would generally want to be

more conservative about sexual subjects for the benefit of most

patients, especially until the subject was felt out).

 

Thanks

[Guest guest]

I see,

I apologize for any discomfort you or others might have felt with

my comentaries about sex, etc.

Of course, in a clinical consultation, one has to be very

mindfull of the person that comes for help and guidance in

sensitive matters, and respect his boundaries and 'speak

according to people's understanding', as it where.

I did not mean any disrespect on the doctor who attended you, but

was trying to understand the possible situation. You added

another perspective; maybe he was, as you put it, mindful of you,

and careful not to offend you, for that would, obviously, not be

of help to you.

Thank you for your patience in answering me.

At your service,

Marcos

 

--- mrasmm <mrasmm escreveu:

 

> I don't mean to sound judgmental, and I reread what I wrote. I

> can

> see how it comes off that way. The word character is not the

> word I

> am looking for. I am not by any means saying that people have

> no

> character if they talk about sex openly. I guess what I am

> trying

> to say is that in a healthcare professional situation,

> sometimes

> people get very uncomfortable if you talk about sex too much,

> even

> if it is all medically related. So a professional who is

> mindful

> about how patients feel will usually be timid or conserved when

>

> talking about it, especially until they feel the situation out,

> and

> see where the boundaries of the individual are, and where their

> own

> personal boundaries and how the two relate. On the other hand,

> if

> you had someone who talked about it too openly, some patients

> might

> never come back, and that again too is all relative. If you

> want to

> talk about sex openly with your patients, then obviously you

> would

> rather have patients that want to do likewise, and you would

> rather

> not have patients that feel uncomfortable when it gets openly

> talked

> about. I do see what you mean about being judgmental, and that

> was

> not at all what I was trying to express. I was trying to

> express,

> yes I see what you mean, a lot of people are timid about it,

> especially those in the healthcare, because I mean if I was a

> young

> woman and I went into my Dr and he started asking too many

> unprofessional questions, it would not be a comfortable

> situation.

> I feel that in healthcare as a professional it generally is a

> good

> thing to be on the timid or conservative side about sexual type

>

> subjects. On the other hand, if there is something that you

> really

> need to know, then you need to be forward enough to ask and

> find out.

>

> So in a nut shell, I am not judging anyone, I am rather sharing

>

> personal experience, and I did not use the word I was really

> looking

> for (the word I used was character, and more so what I meant

> was

> that a mindful healthcare professional would generally want to

> be

> more conservative about sexual subjects for the benefit of most

>

> patients, especially until the subject was felt out).

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

No problems here, and I understand how you thought what you thought,

because I didn't really say what I meant and I didn't expound on

it. I don't feel that you tried to disrespect the doctor I go to.

What I thought all along is that you were trying to see maybe why he

would have said or done what he did, and I appreciate that.

After all that is what this board is all about. In the future I

think it would be good for me to take up a little more room and

fully explain myself. I had just noticed that compared to several

people that are posting, my posts have been quite long, so I was

trying to make them more concise, as a lot of people find it hard to

listen to a long winded person. Also sometimes I express myself,

and I really feel like I am expressing my intent and energy very

well to the other person, and it a way so that they can understand

me, but to the other person it really doesn't come off that way, as

was the case here it seems. This usually happens when I am tired

and I can't think the clearest. So I apologize for the

incompleteness of my thought, and I appreciate you keeping me on my

toes, and giving me a chance to better explain what I meant. All in

all I think things worked out well, and I will explain myself more

thoroughly in the future. Again thank you for your insights and

comments.