Epsom salts questions

[Guest guest]

I have been doing coffee enemas to help detox my body. I am having a lot of pain

across my midriff area and it feels like a combination of cholecystitis and

pancreatitis.

 

I don't feel like eating very much, but what I do eat is good stuff when I eat.

 

I am having some kind of flare up all week.

 

I want to do a liver cleanse but I am a bit nervous about taking so much epsom

salts into my body.

 

I have always been very sensitive to magnesium sulfate. Once when I was in

premature labor, I got an IV drip and it lowered my BP to the point where they

could not give me a loading dose.

 

During my last pregnancy, I needed a cerclage due to an incompetant cervix. At

about three months pregnancy, I had to have my cervix sewed closed. To do this,

I first had to have an IV solution of magnesium sulfate to prevent uterine

contractions.

 

I told them and told them that I was very sensitive to this stuff, but when do

doctors ever listen to the patient? Hardly ever!

 

As I was lying there talking to my husband I suddenly had a terrible and sudden

feeling of impending doom. I said, loudly, " Something is really wrong! SOMETHING

IS VERY WRONG! " I sat bolt upright, barfed, and the nurses and doctors were all

there, Doctor said, " Look at me Jill! " I said, " I can't see! " I couldn't see and

I felt a terrible fear. My blood pressure had completely bottomed out and my

body was telling me it was a red alert and death was imminent!

 

Well, they fixed the problem. I said, " I TOLD you I could not take that stuff! "

And they said, " Next time we'll listen to you. "

And I said, " No next time. "

 

I said all that to say this. I am afraid to take the epsom salts. Today, I took

a 1/4 of a tsp in my mouth and washed it down with apple juice with a lemon

squeezed into it, about an hour before my coffee enema. I didn't seem to have a

problem with that.

 

I am afraid, yet I NEED to do a liver cleanse.

 

Any suggestions?

 

SECOND QUESTION: Dr. Kelley suggests putting epsom salts in the coffee enema

itself. Thoughts on that?

 

~Jill~

[Guest guest]

Yikes! I would not risk taking the epsom salts.My concern is that you may have gallstones. A good liver cleanse will flush these gallstones out. However, Jill, I would not know how to modify the liver cleanse effectively, so I am going to let Tony, or possibly Mike Golden jump in here to reply to you. My heart goes out to you. I suffered this pain many years ago and know how horrendous and debilitating it is. Do you have a fever?Hang in there.Hugs,oleander soup , "lillisilly" <evangelnet wrote:>> I have been doing coffee enemas to help detox my body. I am having a lot of pain across my midriff area and it feels like a combination of cholecystitis and pancreatitis. > > I don't feel like eating very much, but what I do eat is good stuff when I eat.> > I am having some kind of flare up all week. > > I want to do a liver cleanse but I am a bit nervous about taking so much epsom salts into my body. > > I have always been very sensitive to magnesium sulfate. Once when I was in premature labor, I got an IV drip and it lowered my BP to the point where they could not give me a loading dose. > > During my last pregnancy, I needed a cerclage due to an incompetant cervix. At about three months pregnancy, I had to have my cervix sewed closed. To do this, I first had to have an IV solution of magnesium sulfate to prevent uterine contractions. > > I told them and told them that I was very sensitive to this stuff, but when do doctors ever listen to the patient? Hardly ever!> > As I was lying there talking to my husband I suddenly had a terrible and sudden feeling of impending doom. I said, loudly, "Something is really wrong! SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG!" I sat bolt upright, barfed, and the nurses and doctors were all there, Doctor said, "Look at me Jill!" I said, "I can't see!" I couldn't see and I felt a terrible fear. My blood pressure had completely bottomed out and my body was telling me it was a red alert and death was imminent! > > Well, they fixed the problem. I said, "I TOLD you I could not take that stuff!" And they said, "Next time we'll listen to you."> And I said, "No next time." > > I said all that to say this. I am afraid to take the epsom salts. Today, I took a 1/4 of a tsp in my mouth and washed it down with apple juice with a lemon squeezed into it, about an hour before my coffee enema. I didn't seem to have a problem with that. > > I am afraid, yet I NEED to do a liver cleanse. > > Any suggestions?> > SECOND QUESTION: Dr. Kelley suggests putting epsom salts in the coffee enema itself. Thoughts on that?> > ~Jill~>

[Guest guest]

I wholeheartedly second this and am glad you said it. Cleanses are hard on the vital force. Support with silymarin (milk thistle) won't do harm.

 

Terri

 

 

In a message dated 6/14/2009 3:55:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, goldenmike86 writes:

, I'll chime in. I'm not a big fan of liver cleanses Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips.

[Guest guest]

Well, since you mentioned me, , I'll chime in. I'm not a big fan of liver cleanses. I know they are popular on this and other lists, so I'm sure people will jump on me. I've used these flushes with patients for gallstones as I think they are appropriate for that disorder in some patients. To call them liver cleanses is a bit of a misnomer. I usually refer to them as gall bladder flushes.

In my opinion the appropriate treatment for these liver problems is to support liver detoxification. "Liver detoxification" does not mean that the liver itself is toxic. "Liver detoxification" is a function of the liver. It is the primary thing a liver does. The liver detoxifies (either breaks down or conjugates, or both) every drug, supplement and food derived nutrient we consume. It's other major detox function is to detoxify metabolites from the bowel. Without the bowel detoxification function we would be dead in hours.

To help the liver in it's detox functions is the real goal of "liver detoxification". This is best accomplished either via products such as Ultraclear, or by the use of certain herbs. This may be enhanced by using glutathione boosting nutrients, buffered forms of vitamin C and supplementation with natural forms of B vitamins. Two very important supplements with regard to all this are milk thistle and SAMe. I've been able to reverse ascites using these last two.

If someone has had profound problems with mag sulphate, or any other other modality, they should avoid it like the plague. We are all "wired" differently, and we should respect that.

Fortunately there are approaches, other than purges, available that will greatly benefit liver function.

 

 

Mike--- On Sun, 6/14/09, May <luellamay129 wrote:

May <luellamay129 Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soup Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 2:29 PM

 

 

Yikes! I would not risk taking the epsom salts.My concern is that you may have gallstones. A good liver cleanse will flush these gallstones out. However, Jill, I would not know how to modify the liver cleanse effectively, so I am going to let Tony, or possibly Mike Golden jump in here to reply to you. My heart goes out to you. I suffered this pain many years ago and know how horrendous and debilitating it is. Do you have a fever?Hang in there.Hugs,oleander soup, "lillisilly" <evangelnet@. ..> wrote:>> I have been doing coffee enemas to help detox my body. I am having a lot of pain across my midriff area and it feels like a combination of cholecystitis and pancreatitis. > > I don't feel like eating very much, but what I do eat is good stuff when I eat.> > I

am having some kind of flare up all week. > > I want to do a liver cleanse but I am a bit nervous about taking so much epsom salts into my body. > > I have always been very sensitive to magnesium sulfate. Once when I was in premature labor, I got an IV drip and it lowered my BP to the point where they could not give me a loading dose. > > During my last pregnancy, I needed a cerclage due to an incompetant cervix. At about three months pregnancy, I had to have my cervix sewed closed. To do this, I first had to have an IV solution of magnesium sulfate to prevent uterine contractions. > > I told them and told them that I was very sensitive to this stuff, but when do doctors ever listen to the patient? Hardly ever!> > As I was lying there talking to my husband I suddenly had a terrible and sudden feeling of impending doom. I said, loudly, "Something is really wrong! SOMETHING IS VERY

WRONG!" I sat bolt upright, barfed, and the nurses and doctors were all there, Doctor said, "Look at me Jill!" I said, "I can't see!" I couldn't see and I felt a terrible fear. My blood pressure had completely bottomed out and my body was telling me it was a red alert and death was imminent! > > Well, they fixed the problem. I said, "I TOLD you I could not take that stuff!" And they said, "Next time we'll listen to you."> And I said, "No next time." > > I said all that to say this. I am afraid to take the epsom salts. Today, I took a 1/4 of a tsp in my mouth and washed it down with apple juice with a lemon squeezed into it, about an hour before my coffee enema. I didn't seem to have a problem with that. > > I am afraid, yet I NEED to do a liver cleanse. > > Any suggestions?> > SECOND QUESTION: Dr. Kelley suggests putting epsom salts in the coffee enema itself. Thoughts on

that?> > ~Jill~>

[Guest guest]

I'm pasting my reply here, as I don't think it went through....

 

 

I typed an answer to this once , but it does not seem to have made it to the server so.....You can't tell if you have stones without an ultrasound. However, even if you don't have stones you can have inflammation of the gall bladder. The inflammation is cholesystitis, the stones are cholelithiasis. Both situations are considered to be related to food sensitivities. Both situations can become chronic if these sensitivities are not addressed. Palliatively, things that might help include the milk thistle and vitamin C, peppermint oil, a couple of grams of lecithin per day, and castor oil packs when symptoms are bad. Keep in mind all this is just a guess, because we don't know what you actually have. Liver cysts, for example, can look a lot like cholecystitis symptomatically sometimes.Mike

--- On Sun, 6/14/09, Mike Golden <goldenmike86 wrote:

Mike Golden <goldenmike86Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soup Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 8:53 PM

[Guest guest]

There are MANY other types of liver cleanses besides the Epsom salts one. I feel an overnight cleanse that forces the body to do something in just a few hours is far too hard on many people.

 

You can go to the health food store and find lots of different liver cleansers, though the one I much prefer is Dr. Schulze (www.herbdoc.com or 1-800-herbdoc) he has an easy, yet powerful liver cleanse, more focused on the liver than getting rid of stones in the gallbladder (though this is a by-product of the cleanse) that takes 5 days to do. The first and last day you can eat greens and raw veggies, the 3 days inbetween you do all liquids, but are full because you get so many liquids.

 

There are special things you mix together for your drinks, including a liver tea and also included in the kit is a liver tincture--all herbal.

 

Whatever you decide to do, support your liver with milk thistle seeds. Seeds have been discovered to be the best method of getting the best out of milk thistle. Buy a pound or two of seeds, and then grind up some in a spice grinder, just a few days worth at a time so you don't loose the benefit of fresh oil/crushed seeds. You can also put some in a salt grinder and grind them daily over your salads, but I prefer to grind up a couple tablespoons and put a tablespoon of the ground seeds into my smoothie.

 

Milk thistle not only cleanses the liver cells but helps to build new cells.

 

Samala,

Renee

 

----

 

I am afraid, yet I NEED to do a liver cleanse.

 

Any suggestions?

 

[Guest guest]

One does not absolutely have to do the Epsom salts

with the gallbladder cleanses. It

is suggested because 1) It is a laxative and 2) the magnesium helps to make

sure that stones do not get stuck.

For myself, I have only used the Epsom salts a couple of times when

cleansing (I have done a tremendous amount of cleansing) because I cannot stand

the taste. J However, it is better

when mixed with grapefruit juice. I

do highly suggest that clients use the ES as a precautionary measure or use

something like Super Phos (I recommend only if one has had a gallbladder attack

or knows for sure that they have gallstones) mixed in with the apple juice. However, we do use Mag O7, (contains

magnesium oxide and magnesium peroxide and very little is bio-available to the

body) as a part of all the OAW flushes, which provides oxygen and helps to keep

the entire digestive moving (not just the colon) and clean. Preparation for the gallbladder flush by

drinking the organic apple juice for at least 4-days is essential. I also have clients

add one bottle of LivaPure (organic /wild-crafted herbs used to support liver

function) to the 1 gallon of apple juice. We also use a healing soup and also cleansing

juices with our flush.

 

I agree that these cleanses should really be called gallbladder flushes and for

the liver it should be called Liver Support. Personally, I see much more support

taking place for the liver with the use of herbs. If one is going to use a vitamin powder

for liver support then I believe that intraMAX will be the most effective. It is also organic and Tony sells it on

his site.

 

As far as milk thistle, there are several reasons to use the

milk thistle seed rather than

silymarin extract. Using the whole herb is recommended as often it will have a

more balanced effect. The milk thistle extract silymarin, for instance, has

proven useful in treating liver disease. However, the main drawback to using

silymarin is that, if a healthcare professional prescribes other drugs, such as

steroids, silymarin can interfere with the liver's ability to detoxify them.

Milk thistle seed has the same healing effect on the liver without interfering

with the organ's ability to detoxify drugs or environmental chemicals. It also

has a side benefit of normalizing blood lipids as the liver heals.

 

A very healthy diet is crucial for liver support. Organic fruits and vegetables contain

vitamins, minerals, water and oxygen which is why during and after cleansing

this is what one should be consuming the most of in their diet. I find that many people will perform a

flush and then go back to eating the SAD.

Certainly this will quickly undo any good that was done by doing a flush. Any one that is dealing with a hormonal

cancer should definitely be supporting their liver.

 

I have seen liver support therapy along with a very healthy diet actually help

liver cysts dissolve and also resolve fatty liver issues. Cleansing and

flushing is very important to help with effective toxin removal. However, doing one cleanse and thinking

that is all is needed will prove to be ineffective. One cleanse will not remove years and

years of toxic build-up.

 

I know that Barrett of Quack-Watch says that liver/gallbladder cleansing is

probably not effective, but clinically I see that it is effective and very necessary

for cancer patients. However, it needs to be done right and it needs to be done

consistently.

 

Be Well

Loretta

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much, everyone, for your replies! There is so much love and support

on this forum.

 

Yesterday I was able to take a coffee enema midday, whihc helped my discomfort

quite a bit. But last night I was so uncomfortable that I could not sleep.

 

At around 4:30, I took a bout 1/3 of a tsp of epsom salts on off a spoon and

drank a large glass of organic apple juice with an organic lemon juiced into it.

I felt much better and was able to sleep but was nervous and felt " funny " which

could have been a combination of nervousness about the mag sulfate and

exhaustion (I had been shoveling manure and putting my garden that day). I had

about three bowel movements after that! All normal but with some undigested food

in it.

 

Today, I thought, what if there is some infection? Before I went to church, I

took a Tablespoon of CS. When we got home, several hours later, I took another.

And I feel the best I've felt in a week or more! I was able to eat another meal

of brown rice, onions, kale and sweet potatoes---twice the amount I have been

able to eat, and NO DISCOMFORT! (Except what I already have had prior to this

episode)

 

, to answer your final question, I felt I had a low fever at the beginning

of this, but my dd was very ill with swine flu, so I was not sure if I was

fighting that off. I am not, however, the type that gets fever with infection. I

tend not to be febrile.

 

So I will keep on with the CS for a bit. There is still the soreness that is

always there.

 

Thank you, thank you! I do not feel so alone.

 

Mike, I appreciate what you wrote concerning liver flushes. What I wonder is

this: it seems that so many of the most respected writers and doctors and

researchers in alternative medicine recommend them. There must be *some*

benefit? Is there? Or no?

 

Blessings, Jill~

[Guest guest]

Mike, where would I get the SAMe and do you recommend the whole herb milk

thistle as opposed to the supplement?

What about using BOTH the whole herb milk thistle and the supplement at the same

time?

TIA, Jill~

[Guest guest]

The writers and doctors that endorse the " liver flushes " in writing are the same

ones who are using them. The other experts, who don't use them, are not writing

about them at all. This gives people the impression that the science is solid

and everyone is in agreement. This is not so.

As I pointed out, I've used the same technique, as a one-shot therapy, in some

patients who were otherwise facing gall bladder surgery. The flush can promote

gall stone ejection. What I am skeptical about is that they remove " stones "

from the liver and that they have much merit at all in improving liver function.

Even if I am wrong and they do work, they are not likely to be as effective as

gentler techniques based on what we know about liver detoxification pathways.

These flushes are not without their downside. Many people seem to get invested

in the drama of them and, from what they say on these forums, repeat the

technique over and over. This could result in a depletion of oil soluble

vitamins and other oil soluble substrates from the body.

Even on a philosophical level the " flushes " seem wrong. Natural medicine should

be more....well, " natural " . Superphysiological doses of oils (which were not

even available to our ancient pre-agricultural ancestors)seem somehow

" un-natural " to me.

Anyway, since I've seen repeated and dramatic improvement in patients over the

years using an approach that improves liver detoxification pathway efficiency

and does not resemble at all this popular " flushing " , I'm inclined to just

continue with a gentler approach and leave others to do as they will.

 

I'm glad you are feeling better.

 

Mike

--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly <evangelnet wrote:

 

 

lillisilly <evangelnet

Re: Epsom salts questions

oleander soup

Monday, June 15, 2009, 1:18 AM

 

 

 

Mike, I appreciate what you wrote concerning liver flushes. What I wonder is

this: it seems that so many of the most respected writers and doctors and

researchers in alternative medicine recommend them. There must be *some*

benefit? Is there? Or no?

 

Blessings, Jill~

[Guest guest]

You can use sillimarin. I always just say "milk thistle" because I keep forgetting how to spell sillimarin...: )

SAMe is sold in most health food strores and is also availabe online by many wabsites.

 

Mike--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly <evangelnet wrote:

lillisilly <evangelnet Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soup Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 2:07 AM

 

 

Mike, where would I get the SAMe and do you recommend the whole herb milk thistle as opposed to the supplement? What about using BOTH the whole herb milk thistle and the supplement at the same time?TIA, Jill~

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,If I can jump in here, http://www.utopiasilver.com carries SAMe. Don't forget to use Code LR001 or the 15% discount.Hugs.oleander soup , "lillisilly" <evangelnet wrote:>> Mike, where would I get the SAMe and do you recommend the whole herb milk thistle as opposed to the supplement? > What about using BOTH the whole herb milk thistle and the supplement at the same time?> TIA, Jill~>

[Guest guest]

I don’t think it is that people get involved in the " drama "

as much as they just begin to feel better, which makes them want to do

more cleansing. Feeling better is

worth a whole lot to one who has felt bad for a while. No harm in repeating the flushes and very

necessary to detox the body from years of abuse and for many, from rounds and

rounds of chemotherapy and prescription med use. Personally, I have been cleansing since

the beginning of 2001 and have experienced no harm to my body at all –

especially my liver. The good part about flushing is that, if relatively

healthy, one can do several with only 10-14 days in between and for those that

are weaker they can perform them as their health allows.

 

As far as being natural? People

have most likely used oils and herbs for cleansing purposes for a very, very

long time. I don’t think that

people had vitamins back then either, yet we recommend them now. J If it’s

the amount of oil then we probably should consider that most natural protocols

for cancer are not things that our ancestors would have done “normally”

in their every day lives. We do

these things to provide support and healing for a dis-eased body – a body

that is crying out for help.

 

Be Well

Loretta

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose

in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder,

even if it *is* called a liver flush.

Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me.

Blessings, Jill~

 

 

oleander soup , Mike Golden <goldenmike86 wrote:

 

Well, since you mentioned me, , I'll chime in.  I'm not a big fan of liver

cleanses.  I know they are popular on this and other lists, so I'm sure people

will jump on me.  I've used these flushes with patients for gallstones as I

think they are appropriate for that disorder in some patients.  To call them

liver cleanses is a bit of a misnomer.  I usually refer to them as gall bladder

flushes.

[Guest guest]

Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have still flushed and passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article! Mara--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote: I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder, even if it *is* called a liver flush.

Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me.

Blessings, Jill~

[Guest guest]

Sometimes that is quite true.

I have found that the preparation for the cleanse in the most important part.

I juice organic apples and consume the wonderful juice 5 or 6 days before I attempt the cleanse.

Of course, I have seen numerous cleanses on this forum.

I like Dr. Clark and Dr. Jensen's methods.

Good old fashioned, time tested, true methods.

100's of thousands of people , all over the globe, have successfully used these methods.

And there are those who to this wonderful group who say, "why bother?

Questioning something is good, but one has to explain with their own evidence.

Have any?

Unfortunately, food is not what grandma had back then.

We are not getting the nutrition and the minerals we need from "modern" farming.

And don't listen to the FDA and all the other similar agencies in your counties.

THEY are lost.

WE, as a group, have to take care of one another.

Since I have been a member, I totally feel like a brother to all!

Thank you, everyone!

We are in this life to share everything we have to share.

No matter how trivial and small.

It might be BIG to someone reading these posts!

So, like I said weeks ago........everyone tell your story, share your experiences, share your failures and successes, but share with us.

You might save a life or two or three.

Isn't that what love is about?

Thank you for listening.......

Rich

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 6/16/2009 10:19:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, davidmungdol writes:

 

 

 

 

I'm no expert, but I don't believe you are correct. I did one cleanse for example and had no bile stones come out. Every cleanse is different. Sometime you get many stones, sometimes only a few and sometimes none at all. If what you say was true then you every time would be similar I would think. Again I'm no expert although I have done 12 liver flushes done roughly every 3 months for the last 3 years following the exact same method every time. Dave--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Mike Golden <goldenmike86 wrote:

Mike Golden <goldenmike86Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soup Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 8:30 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature.

 

Mike--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Maracuja <howdurdago > wrote:

Maracuja <howdurdago >Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soupTuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have still flushed and passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article! Mara--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder, even if it *is* called a liver flush. Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me. Blessings, Jill~

Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips.

[Guest guest]

Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature.

 

Mike--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Maracuja <howdurdago wrote:

Maracuja <howdurdagoRe: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soup Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have still flushed and passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article! Mara--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder, even if it *is* called a liver flush. Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me. Blessings, Jill~

[Guest guest]

I'm no expert, but I don't believe you are correct. I did one cleanse for example and had no bile stones come out. Every cleanse is different. Sometime you get many stones, sometimes only a few and sometimes none at all. If what you say was true then you every time would be similar I would think. Again i'm no expert although I have done 12 liver flushes done roughly every 3 months for the last 3 years following the exact same method everytime. Dave--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Mike Golden <goldenmike86 wrote:Mike Golden <goldenmike86Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soup Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 8:30 PM

 

Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature.

 

Mike--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Maracuja <howdurdago > wrote:

Maracuja <howdurdago >Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soupTuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have still flushed and passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article! Mara--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder, even if it *is* called a liver flush. Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me. Blessings, Jill~

[Guest guest]

You're forgetting that there are other things present in the small intestine, different every time you do this purge. Sometimes the conditions are right to form accretions, and sometimes they are not.

Your liver is not full of stones. I know surgeons and they've never seen any of these stones in a human liver. They have, however seen plenty of gallstones. Stones form in the gallbladder where bile is stored, not in the liver where bile is produced. Also, there is no contractile mechanism in livers that would allow them to suddenly ejaculate stones. The gall bladder, on the other hand, can contract.

 

Mike--- On Wed, 6/17/09, david mung <davidmungdol wrote:

david mung <davidmungdolRe: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soup Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 1:41 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm no expert, but I don't believe you are correct. I did one cleanse for example and had no bile stones come out. Every cleanse is different. Sometime you get many stones, sometimes only a few and sometimes none at all. If what you say was true then you every time would be similar I would think. Again i'm no expert although I have done 12 liver flushes done roughly every 3 months for the last 3 years following the exact same method everytime. Dave--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Mike Golden <goldenmike86@ > wrote:

Mike Golden <goldenmike86@ >Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soupTuesday, June 16, 2009, 8:30 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature.

 

Mike--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Maracuja <howdurdago > wrote:

Maracuja <howdurdago >Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soupTuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have still flushed and passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article! Mara--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder, even if it *is* called a liver flush. Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me. Blessings, Jill~

[Guest guest]

Thankyou for your wise and beautiful truth Rich! --- On Tue, 6/16/09, richmaj <richmaj wrote:richmaj <richmajRe: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soup Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 9:50 PM

 

 

 

Sometimes that is quite true.

I have found that the preparation for the cleanse in the most important part.

I juice organic apples and consume the wonderful juice 5 or 6 days before I attempt the cleanse.

Of course, I have seen numerous cleanses on this forum.

I like Dr. Clark and Dr. Jensen's methods.

Good old fashioned, time tested, true methods.

100's of thousands of people , all over the globe, have successfully used these methods.

And there are those who to this wonderful group who say, "why bother?

Questioning something is good, but one has to explain with their own evidence.

Have any?

Unfortunately, food is not what grandma had back then.

We are not getting the nutrition and the minerals we need from "modern" farming.

And don't listen to the FDA and all the other similar agencies in your counties.

THEY are lost.

WE, as a group, have to take care of one another.

Since I have been a member, I totally feel like a brother to all!

Thank you, everyone!

We are in this life to share everything we have to share.

No matter how trivial and small.

It might be BIG to someone reading these posts!

So, like I said weeks ago........everyone tell your story, share your experiences, share your failures and successes, but share with us.

You might save a life or two or three.

Isn't that what love is about?

Thank you for listening... ....

Rich

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 6/16/2009 10:19:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, davidmungdol@ writes:

 

 

 

 

I'm no expert, but I don't believe you are correct. I did one cleanse for example and had no bile stones come out. Every cleanse is different. Sometime you get many stones, sometimes only a few and sometimes none at all. If what you say was true then you every time would be similar I would think. Again I'm no expert although I have done 12 liver flushes done roughly every 3 months for the last 3 years following the exact same method every time. Dave--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Mike Golden <goldenmike86@ > wrote:

Mike Golden <goldenmike86@ >Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soupTuesday, June 16, 2009, 8:30 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature.

 

Mike--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Maracuja <howdurdago > wrote:

Maracuja <howdurdago >Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soupTuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have still flushed and passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article! Mara--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder, even if it *is* called a liver flush. Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me. Blessings, Jill~

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[Guest guest]

Erk! Thanks for the info! I think! LOL!I'm one of those that can't take the mag sulph!I just do apples and radishes for a few days prior!--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Mike wrote:

 

Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature.

 

Mike

[Guest guest]

Mike,I very very much appreciate your clarification done for gallstones(liver flush) and liver regeneration.My naturopath doctor here in Greece, insists that liver flush is a "heavy" procedure for cancer patients(may bring imbalance in their body) and it is better to regenerate the liver with other methods.My husband who has colon cancer with a severe(again) recurrence of cancer in the liver, did three liver flushes and all seemed to be very damaging for his health.After the flush, the cancer rate (CEA) raised so much (of course it is not 100% due to the fllush), he had fever for 10 days each time and severe weakness.I am really afraid to repeat it again and I am trying to find other solutions.Thanks again for your advice to all of usBest regardsEfi--- Óôéò Ôåô., 17/06/09, ï/ç Mike Golden

<goldenmike86 Ýãñáøå:Áðü: Mike Golden <goldenmike86ÈÝìá: Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsÐñïò: oleander soup Çìåñïìçíßá: ÔåôÜñôç, 17 Éïýíéïò 2009, 4:30

 

Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature.

 

Mike--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Maracuja <howdurdago > wrote:

Maracuja <howdurdago >Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soupTuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have still flushed and passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article! Mara--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder, even if it *is* called a liver flush. Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me. Blessings, Jill~

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I have done a few of these flushes and if what you are saying is true, I should

get stones every time. That's not the case however. Stones finished by the 5th

flush. Flushes are definitely helpful. Just read the book written by Andreas

Morris and understand what is all about.

 

 

 

oleander soup , Mike Golden <goldenmike86 wrote:

>

> Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing

bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature. 

>  

> Mike

>

> --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Maracuja <howdurdago wrote:

>

>

> Maracuja <howdurdago

> Re: Re: Epsom salts questions

> oleander soup

> Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:45 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have

still flushed and  passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't

have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article!

> Mara

>

> --- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote:

I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose

in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder,

even if it *is* called a liver flush.

> Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me.

> Blessings, Jill~

>

[Guest guest]

Dr.Richard Schulze says a colon flush is the 1st step before doing any liver flush.

Otherwise, the toxins from the gallbladder/liver will have no way of getting out

and cause more harm than good. His intestinal formula 1 & 2 are very good, results

in 3 bowel movements a day.

 

oleander soup From: empasi_homeDate: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:14:13 +0000Re: Re: Epsom salts questions

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike,I very very much appreciate your clarification done for gallstones(liver flush) and liver regeneration.My naturopath doctor here in Greece, insists that liver flush is a "heavy" procedure for cancer patients(may bring imbalance in their body) and it is better to regenerate the liver with other methods.My husband who has colon cancer with a severe(again) recurrence of cancer in the liver, did three liver flushes and all seemed to be very damaging for his health.After the flush, the cancer rate (CEA) raised so much (of course it is not 100% due to the fllush), he had fever for 10 days each time and severe weakness.I am really afraid to repeat it again and I am trying to find other solutions.Thanks again for your advice to all of usBest regardsEfi--- Óôéò Ôåô., 17/06/09, ï/ç Mike Golden <goldenmike86 > Ýãñáøå:

Áðü: Mike Golden <goldenmike86 >ÈÝìá: Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsÐñïò: oleander soup Çìåñïìçíßá: ÔåôÜñôç, 17 Éïýíéïò 2009, 4:30

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature.

 

Mike--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Maracuja <howdurdago > wrote:

Maracuja <howdurdago >Re: Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soupTuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:45 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have still flushed and passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article! Mara--- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder, even if it *is* called a liver flush. Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it for me. Blessings, Jill~

 

×ñçóéìïðïéåßôå ÂáñåèÞêáôå ôá åíï÷ëçôéêÜ ìçíý ìáôá (spam); Ôï Mail äéáèÝôåé ôçí êáëýôåñç äõíáôÞ ðñïóôáóßá êáôÜ ôùí åíï÷ëçôéêþí ìçíõìÜôùí http://login./config/mail?.intl=gr

 

 

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[Guest guest]

As I've already pointed out, conditions in the intestines and their contents are not the same every time you do a "flush". Sometimes you'll get accretion and sometimes you won't. If you feel better doing these it is because they temporarily and partially purge the bowel. (As in "Grannie's" dose of "salts". Good for what ails you.) The reduction in bacterial metabolites that the liver must deal with is temporarily reduced. This is basically how a high colonic works also. People are incorrectly attributing this to a direct effect on the liver itself.

Magnesium sulphate has been used historically as a bowel purge. That is what you are experiencing. Upregulation of the liver's ability to function is more complicated than running some oil through it. It is not an inert pipe that needs flushing.

 

Mike--- On Thu, 6/18/09, Mike V <mds9513 wrote:

Mike V <mds9513 Re: Epsom salts questionsoleander soup Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 4:03 AM

 

 

I have done a few of these flushes and if what you are saying is true, I should get stones every time. That's not the case however. Stones finished by the 5th flush. Flushes are definitely helpful. Just read the book written by Andreas Morris and understand what is all about. oleander soup, Mike Golden <goldenmike86@ ...> wrote:>> Those are not stones from the liver. They are accretions formed by mixing bile, mag sulphate and oil at body temperature. > > Mike> > --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Maracuja <howdurdago@ ...> wrote:> > > Maracuja <howdurdago@ ...>> Re: Re: Epsom salts questions> oleander soup> Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:45 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting. I have read of people who have had cholecystectomy, yet have still flushed and passed stones, presumably from the liver. I'm sorry I don't have a reference. I wish I had kept a note of the article! > Mara> > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, lillisilly wrote:> > > > > > > I just wanted to say, I understand what you are saying here. My actual purpose in wanting to do the flush *was* to flush gall stones out of my gall bladder, even if it *is* called a liver flush. > Thanks for clarifying, though. It just underlines it

for me. > Blessings, Jill~>