Odd Angio-edema

[Guest guest]

Hello all,

 

I met a lady in my OA group who has an odd case. Parts of her face swell to

the point of becoming hard to the touch and then go back down again in a matter

of hours. This happened to her bottom lip and it split, and I observed her left

cheek being somewhat swollen but she said it was much worse when she woke up

that morning.

 

Her doctor said that it was angio-edema, but the only angio-edema I have ever

heard of was that from poor circulation and results in swelling around the

extremities. But I suppose, technically, angio-edema could occur anywhere on

the body. She is on various medications and her doctor took away one saying she

was allergic to it, but her symptoms have persisted. I didn't pry about her

medications because it was none of my business, but I know that knowing what she

was being treated for might help in the analysis.

 

Otherwise, she is in her 50s, obese. She talks alot and tends to dominate the

conversation. Past history of uncontrolled anger.

 

I automatically suggested that she try acupuncture because I suspected her

doctor didn't really know what was wrong and was just trying different things.

 

From a TCM point of view, what could be the culprit(s)?

 

Syria

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Qi stagnation with damp accumulation is a good guess but without extensive

history and pulse and tongue.....????

 

Pete

-

Syria Boyd

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Wednesday, April 25, 2007 2:09 PM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Odd Angio-edema

 

 

Hello all,

 

I met a lady in my OA group who has an odd case. Parts of her face swell to

the point of becoming hard to the touch and then go back down again in a matter

of hours. This happened to her bottom lip and it split, and I observed her left

cheek being somewhat swollen but she said it was much worse when she woke up

that morning.

 

Her doctor said that it was angio-edema, but the only angio-edema I have ever

heard of was that from poor circulation and results in swelling around the

extremities. But I suppose, technically, angio-edema could occur anywhere on the

body. She is on various medications and her doctor took away one saying she was

allergic to it, but her symptoms have persisted. I didn't pry about her

medications because it was none of my business, but I know that knowing what she

was being treated for might help in the analysis.

 

Otherwise, she is in her 50s, obese. She talks alot and tends to dominate the

conversation. Past history of uncontrolled anger.

 

I automatically suggested that she try acupuncture because I suspected her

doctor didn't really know what was wrong and was just trying different things.

 

From a TCM point of view, what could be the culprit(s)?

 

Syria

 

[Guest guest]

The following info is taken from The Practice of by

Giovanni Maciocia:

 

The first step is to determine if the edema is Yang edema or Yin

edema. " From a diagnostic point of view, Yin oedema is characterized

by marked pitting on pressure, with the skin being very slow to

bounce back to normal. In Yang oedema there is little or no pitting

on pressure. " (p. 538.)

 

Yang edema also is called Full type (or Excess) edema; Yin edema also

is called Empty type (or Deficiency). The terms " Full/ Excess "

and " Empty/ Deficiency " edema refers to the immediate Root of the

edema. All edema by definition is Excess (Full) because any is too

much. But the triggers for the edema can differ. " Oedema of the Full

type, also called Yang oedema, derives from external Wind-Water,

external Dampness or Fire-Poison. Oedema of the Empty type, also

called Yin oedema, arises from a deficiency of the Spleen and/or

Kidneys. " (p. 538.)

 

Besides your description of the swelling being " hard to the touch " ,

you offered other clues that point to an Excess imbalance: " She talks

alot and tends to dominate the conversation. "

 

Since it's probable that this is Yang edema (because of the

hardness), the next step is going through the list of imbalances that

can trigger Yang Edema. The four possibilities are 1. Wind-Water

Invading the Defensive-Qi Portion, 2. Fire-Poison, 3. Dampness, and

4. Damp Heat. (p. 539.) Damp-Heat edema tends to be concentrated in

the " legs or abdomen " . (p. 542.) Dampness edema tends to effect

the " whole body or the legs. " (p. 541.) Fire-Poison edema can affect

any part of the body but there also will be " sores, carbuncles or

furnuncles. " (p. 540.) Wind-Water Invading the Defensive-Qi Portion

results in " oedema of eyes and face with sudden onset, aversion to

cold, fever, aches in muscles, retention of urine " . (p. 539.) We have

a probable.

 

Maciocia lists recommended acupoints (modern and ancient) as well as

an herbal formula for Wind-Water Invading the Defensive-Qi Portion.

 

If she decides to see an acupuncturists, I hope it's a TCM

acupuncturist as there are indications of other imbalances from the

info you gave. There may be Interior (trunk of body, Organs) Excess

problems as well as Exterior (skin, muscles, head, neck, arms, legs,

bones, meridians) Excess problems. BTW, Interior Wind frequently

plays a role in cases of obesity. So does Interior Dampness. When a

person has a chronic problem with Pernicious Evils (Dampness, Wind,

Heat, Cold, Dryness), over time a tendency builds for the person to

be more susceptible to Pernicious Evils in the environment.

 

For the students on the list: Yang edema can transform into Yin

edema and vice versa.

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Syria Boyd <syriajboyd

wrote:

>

> Hello all,

>

> I met a lady in my OA group who has an odd case. Parts of her

face swell to the point of becoming hard to the touch and then go

back down again in a matter of hours. This happened to her bottom

lip and it split, and I observed her left cheek being somewhat

swollen but she said it was much worse when she woke up that morning.

>

> Her doctor said that it was angio-edema, but the only angio-edema

I have ever heard of was that from poor circulation and results in

swelling around the extremities. But I suppose, technically, angio-

edema could occur anywhere on the body. She is on various

medications and her doctor took away one saying she was allergic to

it, but her symptoms have persisted. I didn't pry about her

medications because it was none of my business, but I know that

knowing what she was being treated for might help in the analysis.

>

> Otherwise, she is in her 50s, obese. She talks alot and tends to

dominate the conversation. Past history of uncontrolled anger.

>

> I automatically suggested that she try acupuncture because I

suspected her doctor didn't really know what was wrong and was just

trying different things.

>

> From a TCM point of view, what could be the culprit(s)?

>

> Syria

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I want to clarify something in the previous post regarding the

possibility of Fire-Poison. An infected tooth also can result in this

type of swelling of the face. So can some sinus infections. So Fire-

Poison is still a possibility. A TCM healer in person can rule this in

or out. Her doctor may already be treating her for infection. The TCM

intake will reveal what medications she's on and what conditions she's

being treated for. (The TCM healer won't use this info to make a TCM

diagnosis, but will keep it in mind.)