Guest guest Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 I have a friend that took her cat to a holistic vet. She feeds her cats a raw diet. The vet suggested she give prozyme because she is feeding a raw diet - her reason being that raw feeding is considered cool in chinese medicine and it is harder on the digestive system. Is this true? I am curious because animals in the wild (which is a raw diet) do not take prozyme/enzymes. Can anyone shed further light on this?? Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Yes it is generally true that foods in their raw state take more energy to digest, and TCM explains that as cooling. Some ideas for why that might be are, most of the dry cat/dog food is made with a lot of grains and then is sprayed with fats to taste like something appealing, whereas in the wild they would probably be getting a different diet. Another thing is if the cat has been to the vet and it's sick, just as in humans (like eating soup when we get sick), feeding hard to digest foods may actually be counter productive, and enzymes could balance that out. If the cat is getting older, then their digestive energy is also getting lower, and raw foods become harder to digest, so the enzymes may be counter acting that. Chinese Traditional Medicine , sherry bakko <sbakko wrote: > > I have a friend that took her cat to a holistic vet. She feeds her > cats a raw diet. The vet suggested she give prozyme because she is > feeding a raw diet - her reason being that raw feeding is considered > cool in chinese medicine and it is harder on the digestive system. Is > this true? I am curious because animals in the wild (which is a raw > diet) do not take prozyme/enzymes. Can anyone shed further light on > this?? > > Sherry > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 In addition to what Rex mentioned, there's another cultural reason for the prohibition of raw foods in China. I suppose that this is a more recent tradition, likely arising from germ theory (Western medicine) There are still many farmers who use human excrement as fertilizer and the opportunity for the spreading of oral-fecal viruses can be eliminated by washing and then cooking foods. However, in regards to a cat. I would at least look for signs to suggest that there is a problem in the digestion. One of the better barometers is to look at the quality of the poop. If it is getting runny or anything else unusual, there may be the need for the supplement, otherwise, perhaps not. -al. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:27 PM, sherry bakko <sbakkowrote: > I have a friend that took her cat to a holistic vet. She feeds her > cats a raw diet. The vet suggested she give prozyme because she is > feeding a raw diet - her reason being that raw feeding is considered > cool in chinese medicine and it is harder on the digestive system. Is > this true? I am curious because animals in the wild (which is a raw > diet) do not take prozyme/enzymes. Can anyone shed further light on > this?? > > Sherry > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I hope this might be helpful to any animal-owners: I have an old cat, 19 years of age. For about 5 years he would lick a spot raw on his back. Of course I would put the collar around his neck till it healed up, then of course the minute I took it off, back to the licking and the resulting bare, bloody spot. In desperation, I stuffed some Dr. Ohhira's Probiotics (Prof. Formula), down the poor cat's throat, which medicine I mentioned here in another context several months ago. Well, in 3 days he stopped licking and a couple of days after that, the bloody spot was healed up, and still is. This happened about 4 months ago. So maybe TCM is correct that just-about-everything starts in the gut! We have no $$ for veterinarians, and I do not have a great deal of use for their purely symptomatic treatments anyway, which don't get to the root of things. All they know is drugs + plenty of vaccinations. And the charges are ridiculous. It is cheaper to take your pet to a regular MD here in Canada, anyway (where everybody has " free " medicare). Back in 1972 we did just that when a cat of mine got a fish hook stuck in his mouth. It looked bad. The MD had just the right twist of the wrist and Pussy was none the worse for wear. Medicare paid for it, but I do not know how he submitted the claim... As to DIET for pets. The big fad now is grain-free diets for cats. Some people even feed their cats nothing, and I mean nothing, but plain fresh raw meat. Well, we live in the country and one of our cats kills things such as mice, voles & birds. They have residues of grain in their stomachs and undoubtedly the cat gets some of that. So, I would surmise that in nature (whatever that might mean anymore), even obligate carnivores get some grains & seeds by happenstance. Thank you, Dr. Stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 In fact most of the cat family will eat the stomach and upper intestines of their prey fairly early on. What I never understood was why tuna is so popular as a cat food. Their aren't many cats that could drag a 600 lb. bluefin out of the ocean, even if they could use a rod and reel :-). Jeff Mrs. Barley wrote: As to DIET for pets. The big fad now is grain-free diets for cats. Some people even feed their cats nothing, and I mean nothing, but plain fresh raw meat. Well, we live in the country and one of our cats kills things such as mice, voles & birds. They have residues of grain in their stomachs and undoubtedly the cat gets some of that. So, I would surmise that in nature (whatever that might mean anymore), even obligate carnivores get some grains & seeds by happenstance. -- Jeff Smoley LMT MA 52162 www.JadePowerQigong.com www.yuliqigong.com www.SomaticSA.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Yes, the 'fad' is no grain diets for animals - but honestly, peanut hulls and corn meal is not what is meant for them to ingest. Thanks for the responses from everyone. The more I read these days, everyone is suggesting adding a probiotic to the dogs/cats/animal diets. Guess I might have to start doing that. Are there other brands/products that people have tried that they are happy with? I noticed Ohhira's - I will look into that. I still may just watch the stools as Al suggested. Sherry On Aug 12, 2008, at 2:10 PM, Jeff Smoley wrote: > In fact most of the cat family will eat the stomach and upper > intestines > > of their prey fairly early on. > > What I never understood was why tuna is so popular as a cat food. > Their > > aren't many cats that could drag a 600 lb. bluefin out of the ocean, > > even if they could use a rod and reel :-). > > > Jeff > > > Mrs. Barley wrote: > > > As to DIET for pets. The big fad now is grain-free diets for cats. > > Some people even feed their cats nothing, and I mean nothing, but > > plain fresh raw meat. Well, we live in the country and one of our > > cats kills things such as mice, voles & birds. They have residues of > > grain in their stomachs and undoubtedly the cat gets some of that. > > So, I would surmise that in nature (whatever that might mean anymore), > > even obligate carnivores get some grains & seeds by happenstance. > > > -- > > Jeff Smoley LMT MA 52162 > > www.JadePowerQigong.com > > www.yuliqigong.com > > www.SomaticSA.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 I have 5 cats and all are fed a raw meat only diet. No veggies, grains, etc at all. I also do not supplement, except as a " bribe " for the more finicky in the bunch. I have used a probiotic/enzyme supplement temporarily when transitioning cats fed a commercial diet to a raw diet - sometimes they experience digestive upset during the transition. Keeping an eye on the stool is a good way to tell that you are feeding in correct proportions (if not feeding whole prey). I can't speak to a TCM outlook on this diet at all - just offering my experience as a raw feeder. It has done wonders for my cats - no vet visits in years other than routine checkups. Chinese Traditional Medicine , sherry bakko <sbakko wrote: > > Yes, the 'fad' is no grain diets for animals - but honestly, peanut > hulls and corn meal is not what is meant for them to ingest. Thanks > for the responses from everyone. The more I read these days, everyone > is suggesting adding a probiotic to the dogs/cats/animal diets. Guess > I might have to start doing that. Are there other brands/products that > people have tried that they are happy with? I noticed Ohhira's - I > will look into that. I still may just watch the stools as Al > suggested. > > Sherry > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 I have heard very good things about feeding raw,regarding animal health... the only qualifier is that the bones, etc are included. Michelle On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:07 AM, sarah_likes_math < sarah_likes_math wrote: > I have 5 cats and all are fed a raw meat only diet. No veggies, > grains, etc at all. I also do not supplement, except as a " bribe " for > the more finicky in the bunch. I have used a probiotic/enzyme > supplement temporarily when transitioning cats fed a commercial diet > to a raw diet - sometimes they experience digestive upset during the > transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 Cats (of all sizes) and other predators do need some vegetable matter in their diets. This is why they routinely eat the stomach contents of their prey. They do not eat bowel contents unless the prey is very small. Herbivores routinely eat meat, mostly in the form of insects. Jeff sarah_likes_math wrote: > > I have 5 cats and all are fed a raw meat only diet. No veggies, > grains, etc at all. I also do not supplement, except as a " bribe " for > the more finicky in the bunch. I have used a probiotic/enzyme > supplement temporarily when transitioning cats fed a commercial diet > to a raw diet - sometimes they experience digestive upset during the > transition. > > Keeping an eye on the stool is a good way to tell that you are feeding > in correct proportions (if not feeding whole prey). I can't speak to a > TCM outlook on this diet at all - just offering my experience as a raw > feeder. It has done wonders for my cats - no vet visits in years other > than routine checkups. > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40>, sherry bakko <sbakko > wrote: > > > > Yes, the 'fad' is no grain diets for animals - but honestly, peanut > > hulls and corn meal is not what is meant for them to ingest. Thanks > > for the responses from everyone. The more I read these days, everyone > > is suggesting adding a probiotic to the dogs/cats/animal diets. Guess > > I might have to start doing that. Are there other brands/products that > > people have tried that they are happy with? I noticed Ohhira's - I > > will look into that. I still may just watch the stools as Al > > suggested. > > > > Sherry > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 I have to agree with Jeff. These are my views & observations ONLY! If anyone wishes references to some of what I'm writing, I can provide it. While I don't think much of commercial cat foods (*especially*, those with grains & grain byproducts), if any one observes how cats eat when they're able to hunt for themselves, you'd see that stomach contents are almost always eaten. Mice & other rodents are one of the richest natural sources of taurine, an amino acid essential for cats in larger quantities than most carnivores need. Brains (in the form of crunching the small heads) make an excellent source of fat too. Cats tend to leave the large intestines behind & some other parts but it's rare that I've seen much left of other organs (except for gall bladders which are very bitter). The grains in a rodent's stomach is already partially digested making it easy for cats to finish the process. If anyone thinks that rodents often don't have access to grains, just think grass seeds. That's what grains basically are & rodents eat lots of grass seeds, mostly during summer & fall as it ripens but some is stored up through winter too. Interestingly, studies have shown that cats can utilize beta-carotene as a nutrient. Not vitamin A as found in livers but the form found in plant matter. It's particularly used by females for reproductive health. Not sure if it's essential for males but research into cat nutrition has barely been scratched. Most of what was done before was funded primarily by cat food manufacturers & not simply from a real desire to learn but to make profits. My own cat LOVES raw green beans. It's like cat candy to him. I never 'taught' him to eat them either but it came about by chance that I found out. He was around 3 years old when I dropped a raw bean on the floor while preparing them for supper. Since he spends a lot of time around me, watching what I do, he ran for it, thinking it was food. I started to say " Silly boy, it's only a bean & you won't like it " but he already started to crunch it up & eat it. I thought it a fluke & dropped another. He ate that too. Since that time, I've tried to supply him with raw green beans everyday - a little hard in winter but I manage most times! My other cat, Morgana, was intrigued but she didn't eat them, just played with it like a cat might do when they caught a mouse. But within a couple of weeks, she started to crunch them down too. She'd eat 2 or 3 at a time but Mozza would eat up to 7 or 8 if I fed him that many. I generally limit him to 5-6. He also loves peeled broccoli stems (sliced into smaller pieces), raw ripe (red, yellow or orange) sweet peppers, yellow squash & asparagus - all raw. I never tried to coax him to eat them either. He's going on 16 years old & is in very good health & always has been. All blood tests are *excellent*, he has lush soft fur, clear eyes, no nasal discharges, no kitty colds ever, ears never gucked up, & his teeth are very clean too. I think chewing the squeaky raw beans keeps his teeth clean. Plus neither ever had problems with coughing up hairballs. Morgana, sadly, passed away in January at almost 14 years old. She'd never been ill a day in her life but a very rapid, aggressive cancer spread in her abdomen before I even caught on what was happening. Do I think veggies are absolutely necessary for cats? I honestly don't know & can't say one way or the other. But it certainly hasn't harmed my cats & seemed to benefit them. Mozza (who ate far more veggies than Morgana) is now equivalent to 79 years (human years) & doesn't realise he's not still young. He has none of the symptoms many aged cats show. While I feed raw meat to him, I don't on a daily basis & I'm careful about balancing the lack of calcium found in raw meat without bones. If anyone decides to feed raw only, I honestly believe it's a very good idea not to use just one or two types of animal for meat but to vary it. In nature, small wild cats don't just eat one type of prey animal but a variety. They'll also eat some insects & grasshoppers. And my own cats, when they ate grass, they didn't eat it & then barf. They ate grass & kept it down. So the idea that cats only eat grass when their stomach is upset is not true but only sometimes. Judy On Thursday 18 September 2008 11:28:35 am YuLi Qigong wrote: > Cats (of all sizes) and other predators do need some vegetable matter in > their diets. > This is why they routinely eat the stomach contents of their prey. > They do not eat bowel contents unless the prey is very small. > Herbivores routinely eat meat, mostly in the form of insects. > > Jeff > > sarah_likes_math wrote: > > I have 5 cats and all are fed a raw meat only diet. No veggies, > > grains, etc at all. I also do not supplement, except as a " bribe " for > > the more finicky in the bunch. I have used a probiotic/enzyme > > supplement temporarily when transitioning cats fed a commercial diet > > to a raw diet - sometimes they experience digestive upset during the > > transition. > > > > Keeping an eye on the stool is a good way to tell that you are feeding > > in correct proportions (if not feeding whole prey). I can't speak to a > > TCM outlook on this diet at all - just offering my experience as a raw > > feeder. It has done wonders for my cats - no vet visits in years other > > than routine checkups. > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > > <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40>, sherry bakko <sbakko > > > > wrote: > > > Yes, the 'fad' is no grain diets for animals - but honestly, peanut > > > hulls and corn meal is not what is meant for them to ingest. Thanks > > > for the responses from everyone. The more I read these days, everyone > > > is suggesting adding a probiotic to the dogs/cats/animal diets. Guess > > > I might have to start doing that. Are there other brands/products that > > > people have tried that they are happy with? I noticed Ohhira's - I > > > will look into that. I still may just watch the stools as Al > > > suggested. > > > > > > Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Chinese Traditional Medicine , Judy Wilkins <isomorphix wrote: > My own cat LOVES raw green beans. It's like cat candy to him. Cat candy! We have one cat that loves cantaloupe, broccoli (he gets really excited when we have it for dinner, even more than about the chicken), sweet potatoes and a few other vegetables. His sister thinks he's weird.... Will have to see what he thinks about green beans. sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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