Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso Newsletter

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio

 

Sure...they can join AOMNC at never any membership cost.

 

Then when the profession needs action e-mails they can certainly join in by

writing to their legislators.

 

Regards,

Richard

 

In a message dated 3/19/04 7:51:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,

attiliodalberto writes:

Hi Lady Melody,

 

I'm also a student about to graduate. I try and help this situation

by making it known to qualified practitioners and trying to get them

to act. Has anyone else got any other ideas for students wanting to

participate in this cause?

 

Attilio

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban (taken from the Honso

newsletter).

 

Requested by the Chinese herbal medicine manufacturer group, Honso

is passing on this information to all CAM practitioners and doctors

to ask for your participation on this action. Act now and send your

opinions and concerns to your Government Representatives regarding

the loss of the Ephedra and Pinellia herbs in use in Traditional

.

 

Because of the ambivalent ruling by FDA which states that " this

final rule does not affect the use of Ephedra preparations in

traditional Asian Medicine. This rule applies only to products

regulated as dietary supplements. Traditional Asian medicine

practitioners do not typically use products marketed as dietary

supplements " the access to these herbs will in effect be denied for

practitioners using prepared herbal formulas. In fact some companies

manufacturing these herbal formulas have already taken these two

herbs out of their formulas.

 

What needs to be done?

 

Practitioners should email/mail the following actions (in your own

words) to your Senators and Congressman concerning the FDA Final

Rule which will become effective 4/12/04 and will ban the use of

ephedrine alkaloids (ie. Ma Huang and Ban Xia). For a list of the

representatives in your area, please access www.congress.org or

www.house.gov

 

Direct link is http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ USE IT!!!!!!

 

Example of letter to be sent: (cut and paste it)

 

I am a Licensed Acupuncturist in your voting district and would like

to voice my opinion regarding the final FDA ruling declaring Dietary

Supplements containing Ephedrine alkaloids adulterated.The FDA has

banned the use of Ephedra (Ma Huang) and Pinellia (Ban Xia) because

they contain ephedrine alkaloids. There are no Adverse Event Reports

regarding the herb Ephedra, from a practitioner restricted product.

The herb Pinellia has no Adverse Event Reports. In other words, the

FDA has not followed due process with this herb.

 

I use Ephedra and Pinellia regularly in my practice and these herbs

are administered safely according to my extensive traditional

Chinese herbal training and national certification. Please

communicate to FDA on my behalf. I would like to request that this

recent ban be revised, to allow access to dietary supplements that

contain ephedrine alkaloids in my practice, for use in traditional

formulas and for traditional uses.

 

 

Attilio

[Guest guest]

Attilio, I am a student soon to grad, later this year is there anyway we,

students can help with this??

 

Lady Melody

 

[attiliodalberto]

Friday, March 19, 2004 7:01 PM

Chinese Medicine

Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso

Newsletter

 

 

Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban (taken from the Honso

newsletter).

 

Requested by the Chinese herbal medicine manufacturer group, Honso

is passing on this information to all CAM practitioners and doctors

to ask for your participation on this action. Act now and send your

opinions and concerns to your Government Representatives regarding

the loss of the Ephedra and Pinellia herbs in use in Traditional

.

 

Because of the ambivalent ruling by FDA which states that " this

final rule does not affect the use of Ephedra preparations in

traditional Asian Medicine. This rule applies only to products

regulated as dietary supplements. Traditional Asian medicine

practitioners do not typically use products marketed as dietary

supplements " the access to these herbs will in effect be denied for

practitioners using prepared herbal formulas. In fact some companies

manufacturing these herbal formulas have already taken these two

herbs out of their formulas.

 

What needs to be done?

 

Practitioners should email/mail the following actions (in your own

words) to your Senators and Congressman concerning the FDA Final

Rule which will become effective 4/12/04 and will ban the use of

ephedrine alkaloids (ie. Ma Huang and Ban Xia). For a list of the

representatives in your area, please access www.congress.org or

www.house.gov

 

Direct link is http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ USE IT!!!!!!

 

Example of letter to be sent: (cut and paste it)

 

I am a Licensed Acupuncturist in your voting district and would like

to voice my opinion regarding the final FDA ruling declaring Dietary

Supplements containing Ephedrine alkaloids adulterated.The FDA has

banned the use of Ephedra (Ma Huang) and Pinellia (Ban Xia) because

they contain ephedrine alkaloids. There are no Adverse Event Reports

regarding the herb Ephedra, from a practitioner restricted product.

The herb Pinellia has no Adverse Event Reports. In other words, the

FDA has not followed due process with this herb.

 

I use Ephedra and Pinellia regularly in my practice and these herbs

are administered safely according to my extensive traditional

Chinese herbal training and national certification. Please

communicate to FDA on my behalf. I would like to request that this

recent ban be revised, to allow access to dietary supplements that

contain ephedrine alkaloids in my practice, for use in traditional

formulas and for traditional uses.

 

 

Attilio

 

 

 

Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious,

spam messages,flame another member or swear.

 

To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none,

visit the groups’ homepage:

Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my

membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

 

To send an email to

<Chinese Medicine- > from the email

account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still

recieve messages for a few days.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Lady Melody,

 

I'm also a student about to graduate. I try and help this situation

by making it known to qualified practitioners and trying to get them

to act. Has anyone else got any other ideas for students wanting to

participate in this cause?

 

Attilio

 

" Lady Doc " <s.sanctuary@v...> wrote:

> Attilio, I am a student soon to grad, later this year is there

anyway we,

> students can help with this??

>

> Lady Melody

>

>

> [attiliodalberto]

> Friday, March 19, 2004 7:01 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso

> Newsletter

>

>

> Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban (taken from the Honso

> newsletter).

>

> Requested by the Chinese herbal medicine manufacturer group,

Honso

> is passing on this information to all CAM practitioners and

doctors

> to ask for your participation on this action. Act now and send

your

> opinions and concerns to your Government Representatives

regarding

> the loss of the Ephedra and Pinellia herbs in use in Traditional

> .

>

> Because of the ambivalent ruling by FDA which states that " this

> final rule does not affect the use of Ephedra preparations in

> traditional Asian Medicine. This rule applies only to products

> regulated as dietary supplements. Traditional Asian medicine

> practitioners do not typically use products marketed as dietary

> supplements " the access to these herbs will in effect be denied

for

> practitioners using prepared herbal formulas. In fact some

companies

> manufacturing these herbal formulas have already taken these two

> herbs out of their formulas.

>

> What needs to be done?

>

> Practitioners should email/mail the following actions (in your

own

> words) to your Senators and Congressman concerning the FDA Final

> Rule which will become effective 4/12/04 and will ban the use of

> ephedrine alkaloids (ie. Ma Huang and Ban Xia). For a list of the

> representatives in your area, please access www.congress.org or

> www.house.gov

>

> Direct link is http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ USE IT!!!!!!

>

> Example of letter to be sent: (cut and paste it)

>

> I am a Licensed Acupuncturist in your voting district and would

like

> to voice my opinion regarding the final FDA ruling declaring

Dietary

> Supplements containing Ephedrine alkaloids adulterated.The FDA

has

> banned the use of Ephedra (Ma Huang) and Pinellia (Ban Xia)

because

> they contain ephedrine alkaloids. There are no Adverse Event

Reports

> regarding the herb Ephedra, from a practitioner restricted

product.

> The herb Pinellia has no Adverse Event Reports. In other words,

the

> FDA has not followed due process with this herb.

>

> I use Ephedra and Pinellia regularly in my practice and these

herbs

> are administered safely according to my extensive traditional

> Chinese herbal training and national certification. Please

> communicate to FDA on my behalf. I would like to request that

this

> recent ban be revised, to allow access to dietary supplements

that

> contain ephedrine alkaloids in my practice, for use in

traditional

> formulas and for traditional uses.

>

>

> Attilio

>

>

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

religious,

> spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

> To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest

or none,

> visit the groups' homepage:

> Chinese Medicine/

click `edit my

> membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

>

> To send an email to

> <Chinese Medicine- > from

the email

> account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but

will still

> recieve messages for a few days.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do you think we, as students moving into the profession would have a voice

to the officials at this time?? Could we modify the letter to reflect a

student voice? One of my teachers is a distributor for Honso and is not sure

if we have a " voice " or not..

 

Lady Melody

 

[attiliodalberto]

Friday, March 19, 2004 7:50 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso

Newsletter

 

 

Hi Lady Melody,

 

I'm also a student about to graduate. I try and help this situation

by making it known to qualified practitioners and trying to get them

to act. Has anyone else got any other ideas for students wanting to

participate in this cause?

 

Attilio

 

" Lady Doc " <s.sanctuary@v...> wrote:

> Attilio, I am a student soon to grad, later this year is there

anyway we,

> students can help with this??

>

> Lady Melody

>

>

> [attiliodalberto]

> Friday, March 19, 2004 7:01 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso

> Newsletter

>

>

> Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban (taken from the Honso

> newsletter).

>

> Requested by the Chinese herbal medicine manufacturer group,

Honso

> is passing on this information to all CAM practitioners and

doctors

> to ask for your participation on this action. Act now and send

your

> opinions and concerns to your Government Representatives

regarding

> the loss of the Ephedra and Pinellia herbs in use in Traditional

> .

>

> Because of the ambivalent ruling by FDA which states that " this

> final rule does not affect the use of Ephedra preparations in

> traditional Asian Medicine. This rule applies only to products

> regulated as dietary supplements. Traditional Asian medicine

> practitioners do not typically use products marketed as dietary

> supplements " the access to these herbs will in effect be denied

for

> practitioners using prepared herbal formulas. In fact some

companies

> manufacturing these herbal formulas have already taken these two

> herbs out of their formulas.

>

> What needs to be done?

>

> Practitioners should email/mail the following actions (in your

own

> words) to your Senators and Congressman concerning the FDA Final

> Rule which will become effective 4/12/04 and will ban the use of

> ephedrine alkaloids (ie. Ma Huang and Ban Xia). For a list of the

> representatives in your area, please access www.congress.org or

> www.house.gov

>

> Direct link is http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ USE IT!!!!!!

>

> Example of letter to be sent: (cut and paste it)

>

> I am a Licensed Acupuncturist in your voting district and would

like

> to voice my opinion regarding the final FDA ruling declaring

Dietary

> Supplements containing Ephedrine alkaloids adulterated.The FDA

has

> banned the use of Ephedra (Ma Huang) and Pinellia (Ban Xia)

because

> they contain ephedrine alkaloids. There are no Adverse Event

Reports

> regarding the herb Ephedra, from a practitioner restricted

product.

> The herb Pinellia has no Adverse Event Reports. In other words,

the

> FDA has not followed due process with this herb.

>

> I use Ephedra and Pinellia regularly in my practice and these

herbs

> are administered safely according to my extensive traditional

> Chinese herbal training and national certification. Please

> communicate to FDA on my behalf. I would like to request that

this

> recent ban be revised, to allow access to dietary supplements

that

> contain ephedrine alkaloids in my practice, for use in

traditional

> formulas and for traditional uses.

>

>

> Attilio

>

>

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

religious,

> spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

> To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest

or none,

> visit the groups' homepage:

> Chinese Medicine/

click `edit my

> membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

>

> To send an email to

> <Chinese Medicine- > from

the email

> account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but

will still

> recieve messages for a few days.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Atillio!

 

If I send that email to my Congresswoman Katherine Harris she will think I

have lost it. She will want to know " what part of " this final rule does not

affect the use of Ephedra preparations in traditional Asian Medicine. "

don't you understand? " The proposed text of the email does not address that

issue.

 

Congresswoman Katherine Harris is the author of the Florida Acupuncture

law. As a Florida Senator she introduced the bill in essentially its final

form the year before it passed. This law has served as the model for many

other states' acupuncture laws.

 

It would be better, in my opinion, to lobby the producers of herbal patents

to include Ephedra and Pinellia where appropriate since the rule

specifically permits them. We can't expect to micro-manage the work of our

FDA regulators, particularly where they did allow for the proper use of the

two herbs. Maybe Honso needs to get with the program and realize that they

already have what they need. Or was Honso (perhaps under another name)

previously making millions flooding the market with those much abused " diet

drugs " and now wants us to carry their water for them?

 

At 07:01 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote:

>Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban (taken from the Honso

>newsletter).

>

>Requested by the Chinese herbal medicine manufacturer group, Honso <snip>

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

A simple and nice way of saying this....those who do not understand what's in

the works are certainly entitled to question and debate...but should stay in

the background and let others geared for the situation...... handle the

situation.

 

First of all the information is incorrect about who fathered the acupuncture

practice act in Florida. If anything it had very little to do with K.Harris.

The actual practice act was sponsored and pushed through the Florida

Legislature by a dentist in 1980.

 

Then there is the truth to what the FDA is doing in part by this rule. What

they are allowed to do. How they are allowed to do it and if they followed

proper protocol and/or overstepped their boundaries.

 

All the lobbying in the world won't help what they are doing right now. Only

proper Administrative challenges will stop them in their tracks.

 

AHPA has done the right thing but in some opinion - a very weak complaint.

Still...it's better than nothing.

 

There are others - if they step up to the plate in time - who will

additionally file yet another Administrative complaint against the FDAs rule.

 

As as has been stated before one needs to understand issues such

as.....federal laws versus state laws. Federal law always trumps state laws

therefore it

is of no consequence what California or New York may or may not have done

regarding ephedra or anything else even as found in the scope of the state

practice

acts such as the rights to prescribe, use or administer herbs. It doesn;t

matter what state law says...when the FDA et al get around to it - it is their

plan that no one is going to use herbs which they formally categorize as illegal

drugs. Anyone getting this picture yet?

 

What I find unbelievable is the failure of certain people who have not gone

to the horse's mouth and ask simple questions and thereby confirm the truth.

AOMNC did it prior to the issue of the FDAs final ruling and then I personally

discussed the results with John Chen. Then he followed after us (only recently)

and made those same appropriate phone calls. Read what has has to say on-line

at Acupuncture Today.

 

Too many people and organizations are putting forth information that is way

off base and just not true.

 

Strong action MUST be taken to stop the powers that wish to squash wholistic

natural medicine. It can't be said any simpler. Trying to negotiate with them

or any other go-between is totally useless.

 

I have been accused of being a hard-liner. So be it. When I see certain

entities come to the negotiation table in honesty and seriousness....that might

be

the time to back off but don't believe it will ever happen that way.

 

Now that AOMNC has the first (alleged) Class Action Racketeering lawsuit

filed against the major healthcare carriers.....we are further looking into the

probability of filing a Civil Rights violation case.

 

The only way to address these unforgiveable atrocities is head-on.....pedal

to the metal.

 

Richard A. Freiberg, OMD, NMD

Founder/President AOMMC

www.aomnc.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 3/20/2004 5:30:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,

susegmen writes:

Hi Atillio,

 

I believe that Pete's points here are correct for the time being in the U.S.

When I questioned Michael McGuffin of the American Herbal Products

Association in Washington on this point, he said that the federal rules were

intended to

follow the state's rules on this. I'm mainly aware of the rules in

California, and Michael indicated that these rules and those of other states

would be

the precedent. So practitioners can use ma huang and ban xia as crude herbs or

in finished formulas. He also indicated that we really wouldn't know for

sure until a case was tested in court. But so far, the perspective that Pete is

presenting is the one that's promulgated by AHPA to the industry. A lot of

companies, however, mass market to the natural products industry far beyond

their practitioner base. So they would be losing that larger market through new

federal and state laws.

 

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

Hi Atillio!

 

If I send that email to my Congresswoman Katherine Harris she will think I

have lost it. She will want to know " what part of " this final rule does not

affect the use of Ephedra preparations in traditional Asian Medicine. "

don't you understand? " The proposed text of the email does not address that

issue.

 

Congresswoman Katherine Harris is the author of the Florida Acupuncture

law. As a Florida Senator she introduced the bill in essentially its final

form the year before it passed. This law has served as the model for many

other states' acupuncture laws.

 

It would be better, in my opinion, to lobby the producers of herbal patents

to include Ephedra and Pinellia where appropriate since the rule

specifically permits them. We can't expect to micro-manage the work of our

FDA regulators, particularly where they did allow for the proper use of the

two herbs. Maybe Honso needs to get with the program and realize that they

already have what they need. Or was Honso (perhaps under another name)

previously making millions flooding the market with those much abused " diet

drugs " and now wants us to carry their water for them?

 

At 07:01 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote:

>Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban (taken from the Honso

>newsletter).

>

>Requested by the Chinese herbal medicine manufacturer group, Honso <snip>

 

Regards,

 

Pete

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Atillio,

 

I believe that Pete's points here are correct for the time being in the U.S.

When I questioned Michael McGuffin of the American Herbal Products Association

in Washington on this point, he said that the federal rules were intended to

follow the state's rules on this. I'm mainly aware of the rules in California,

and Michael indicated that these rules and those of other states would be the

precedent. So practitioners can use ma huang and ban xia as crude herbs or in

finished formulas. He also indicated that we really wouldn't know for sure

until a case was tested in court. But so far, the perspective that Pete is

presenting is the one that's promulgated by AHPA to the industry. A lot of

companies, however, mass market to the natural products industry far beyond

their practitioner base. So they would be losing that larger market through new

federal and state laws.

 

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

Hi Atillio!

 

If I send that email to my Congresswoman Katherine Harris she will think I

have lost it. She will want to know " what part of " this final rule does not

affect the use of Ephedra preparations in traditional Asian Medicine. "

don't you understand? " The proposed text of the email does not address that

issue.

 

Congresswoman Katherine Harris is the author of the Florida Acupuncture

law. As a Florida Senator she introduced the bill in essentially its final

form the year before it passed. This law has served as the model for many

other states' acupuncture laws.

 

It would be better, in my opinion, to lobby the producers of herbal patents

to include Ephedra and Pinellia where appropriate since the rule

specifically permits them. We can't expect to micro-manage the work of our

FDA regulators, particularly where they did allow for the proper use of the

two herbs. Maybe Honso needs to get with the program and realize that they

already have what they need. Or was Honso (perhaps under another name)

previously making millions flooding the market with those much abused " diet

drugs " and now wants us to carry their water for them?

 

At 07:01 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote:

>Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban (taken from the Honso

>newsletter).

>

>Requested by the Chinese herbal medicine manufacturer group, Honso <snip>

 

Regards,

 

Pete

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Emmanuel and Pete.

 

Ahh, ok, now i understand. I should know better than to quote

company newsletters. Many apologies to all!

 

Attilio

 

" Emmanuel Segmen " <susegmen@i...> wrote:

> Hi Atillio,

>

> I believe that Pete's points here are correct for the time being

in the U.S. When I questioned Michael McGuffin of the American

Herbal Products Association in Washington on this point, he said

that the federal rules were intended to follow the state's rules on

this. I'm mainly aware of the rules in California, and Michael

indicated that these rules and those of other states would be the

precedent. So practitioners can use ma huang and ban xia as crude

herbs or in finished formulas. He also indicated that we really

wouldn't know for sure until a case was tested in court. But so

far, the perspective that Pete is presenting is the one that's

promulgated by AHPA to the industry. A lot of companies, however,

mass market to the natural products industry far beyond their

practitioner base. So they would be losing that larger market

through new federal and state laws.

>

> Respectfully,

> Emmanuel Segmen

>

>

>

> Hi Atillio!

>

> If I send that email to my Congresswoman Katherine Harris she

will think I

> have lost it. She will want to know " what part of " this final

rule does not

> affect the use of Ephedra preparations in traditional Asian

Medicine. "

> don't you understand? " The proposed text of the email does not

address that

> issue.

>

> Congresswoman Katherine Harris is the author of the Florida

Acupuncture

> law. As a Florida Senator she introduced the bill in essentially

its final

> form the year before it passed. This law has served as the model

for many

> other states' acupuncture laws.

>

> It would be better, in my opinion, to lobby the producers of

herbal patents

> to include Ephedra and Pinellia where appropriate since the rule

> specifically permits them. We can't expect to micro-manage the

work of our

> FDA regulators, particularly where they did allow for the proper

use of the

> two herbs. Maybe Honso needs to get with the program and realize

that they

> already have what they need. Or was Honso (perhaps under another

name)

> previously making millions flooding the market with those much

abused " diet

> drugs " and now wants us to carry their water for them?

>

> At 07:01 PM 3/19/2004, you wrote:

> >Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban (taken from the Honso

> >newsletter).

> >

> >Requested by the Chinese herbal medicine manufacturer group,

Honso <snip>

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can I get some clarity here from someone?? Ma Huang and Ban Xia have been

banned by the FDA with the exception being the scope of Asian medicine (TCM)

right? which means that it can't be sold over the counter in dietary

supplements. As I am reading and understanding it, this ban also effects

formulas and use with in them?? so does this mean it is limited then to the

use of raw herbs prescribed?? and why is it effecting the formulas if they

are prescribed by practitioners??

 

I am obviously missing a bit and would like some .. clarification if some

one could and would help.

 

Lady Melody

 

acudoc11 [acudoc11]

Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:38 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso

Newsletter

 

 

A simple and nice way of saying this....those who do not understand what's

in

the works are certainly entitled to question and debate...but should stay

in

the background and let others geared for the situation...... handle the

situation.

 

First of all the information is incorrect about who fathered the

acupuncture

practice act in Florida. If anything it had very little to do with

K.Harris.

The actual practice act was sponsored and pushed through the Florida

Legislature by a dentist in 1980.

 

Then there is the truth to what the FDA is doing in part by this rule.

What

they are allowed to do. How they are allowed to do it and if they followed

proper protocol and/or overstepped their boundaries.

 

All the lobbying in the world won't help what they are doing right now.

Only

proper Administrative challenges will stop them in their tracks.

 

AHPA has done the right thing but in some opinion - a very weak complaint.

Still...it's better than nothing.

 

There are others - if they step up to the plate in time - who will

additionally file yet another Administrative complaint against the FDAs

rule.

 

As as has been stated before one needs to understand issues such

as.....federal laws versus state laws. Federal law always trumps state

laws therefore it

is of no consequence what California or New York may or may not have done

regarding ephedra or anything else even as found in the scope of the state

practice

acts such as the rights to prescribe, use or administer herbs. It doesn;t

matter what state law says...when the FDA et al get around to it - it is

their

plan that no one is going to use herbs which they formally categorize as

illegal

drugs. Anyone getting this picture yet?

 

What I find unbelievable is the failure of certain people who have not

gone

to the horse's mouth and ask simple questions and thereby confirm the

truth.

AOMNC did it prior to the issue of the FDAs final ruling and then I

personally

discussed the results with John Chen. Then he followed after us (only

recently)

and made those same appropriate phone calls. Read what has has to say

on-line

at Acupuncture Today.

 

Too many people and organizations are putting forth information that is

way

off base and just not true.

 

Strong action MUST be taken to stop the powers that wish to squash

wholistic

natural medicine. It can't be said any simpler. Trying to negotiate with

them

or any other go-between is totally useless.

 

I have been accused of being a hard-liner. So be it. When I see certain

entities come to the negotiation table in honesty and seriousness....that

might be

the time to back off but don't believe it will ever happen that way.

 

Now that AOMNC has the first (alleged) Class Action Racketeering lawsuit

filed against the major healthcare carriers.....we are further looking

into the

probability of filing a Civil Rights violation case.

 

The only way to address these unforgiveable atrocities is

head-on.....pedal

to the metal.

 

Richard A. Freiberg, OMD, NMD

Founder/President AOMMC

www.aomnc.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, what is the situation in the States, i'm confused too. Can

anyone please clarify the current situation.

 

Attilio

 

" Lady Doc " <s.sanctuary@v...> wrote:

> Can I get some clarity here from someone?? Ma Huang and Ban Xia

have been

> banned by the FDA with the exception being the scope of Asian

medicine (TCM)

> right? which means that it can't be sold over the counter in

dietary

> supplements. As I am reading and understanding it, this ban also

effects

> formulas and use with in them?? so does this mean it is limited

then to the

> use of raw herbs prescribed?? and why is it effecting the

formulas if they

> are prescribed by practitioners??

>

> I am obviously missing a bit and would like some .. clarification

if some

> one could and would help.

>

> Lady Melody

>

>

> acudoc11@a... [acudoc11@a...]

> Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:38 AM

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban -

Honso

> Newsletter

>

>

> A simple and nice way of saying this....those who do not

understand what's

> in

> the works are certainly entitled to question and debate...but

should stay

> in

> the background and let others geared for the situation......

handle the

> situation.

>

> First of all the information is incorrect about who fathered the

> acupuncture

> practice act in Florida. If anything it had very little to do

with

> K.Harris.

> The actual practice act was sponsored and pushed through the

Florida

> Legislature by a dentist in 1980.

>

> Then there is the truth to what the FDA is doing in part by this

rule.

> What

> they are allowed to do. How they are allowed to do it and if

they followed

> proper protocol and/or overstepped their boundaries.

>

> All the lobbying in the world won't help what they are doing

right now.

> Only

> proper Administrative challenges will stop them in their tracks.

>

> AHPA has done the right thing but in some opinion - a very weak

complaint.

> Still...it's better than nothing.

>

> There are others - if they step up to the plate in time - who

will

> additionally file yet another Administrative complaint against

the FDAs

> rule.

>

> As as has been stated before one needs to understand issues such

> as.....federal laws versus state laws. Federal law always trumps

state

> laws therefore it

> is of no consequence what California or New York may or may not

have done

> regarding ephedra or anything else even as found in the scope of

the state

> practice

> acts such as the rights to prescribe, use or administer herbs.

It doesn;t

> matter what state law says...when the FDA et al get around to

it - it is

> their

> plan that no one is going to use herbs which they formally

categorize as

> illegal

> drugs. Anyone getting this picture yet?

>

> What I find unbelievable is the failure of certain people who

have not

> gone

> to the horse's mouth and ask simple questions and thereby

confirm the

> truth.

> AOMNC did it prior to the issue of the FDAs final ruling and

then I

> personally

> discussed the results with John Chen. Then he followed after us

(only

> recently)

> and made those same appropriate phone calls. Read what has has

to say

> on-line

> at Acupuncture Today.

>

> Too many people and organizations are putting forth information

that is

> way

> off base and just not true.

>

> Strong action MUST be taken to stop the powers that wish to

squash

> wholistic

> natural medicine. It can't be said any simpler. Trying to

negotiate with

> them

> or any other go-between is totally useless.

>

> I have been accused of being a hard-liner. So be it. When I see

certain

> entities come to the negotiation table in honesty and

seriousness....that

> might be

> the time to back off but don't believe it will ever happen that

way.

>

> Now that AOMNC has the first (alleged) Class Action Racketeering

lawsuit

> filed against the major healthcare carriers.....we are further

looking

> into the

> probability of filing a Civil Rights violation case.

>

> The only way to address these unforgiveable atrocities is

> head-on.....pedal

> to the metal.

>

> Richard A. Freiberg, OMD, NMD

> Founder/President AOMMC

> www.aomnc.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Richard!

 

This month's print issue of Acupuncture Today - is this different from the

online version? The print version certainly reads to me that " Asian

Medicine " is good to go with ma huang and ban xia. Perhaps you could

provide a link to the John Chen article? We all need to read on the same page.

 

Katherine Harris is my Congresswoman, I speak to her in person several

times each year and visit her office at least once a month. For me to send

the sample email to her without acknowledging her contribution, which is

more than you are willing to credit (so be that) would make no sense.

 

At 09:37 AM 3/20/2004, you wrote:<snip>

 

>What I find unbelievable is the failure of certain people who have not gone

>to the horse's mouth and ask simple questions and thereby confirm the truth.

>AOMNC did it prior to the issue of the FDAs final ruling and then I

>personally

>discussed the results with John Chen. Then he followed after us (only

>recently)

>and made those same appropriate phone calls. Read what has has to say on-line

>at Acupuncture Today. <snip>

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Hello Pete

 

While I actively engage in these information groups as much as

possible.....at the same time my time and energy is engrossed in the 'battle'

more

importantly so. I suggested that ALL look at Acupuncture Today. Since

spoonfeeding is

necessary....here is the link...

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/news/chenletter.html

 

Your need to read and know the truth although a valid right and urgently

important...it is not my responsibility to insure that you are all properly

informed. One would think that responsible journalism would take care of that.

 

Additionally at this point in time these e-mail arena debates won't change

RIGHT NOW what the powers that be are attempting and what absolutely MUST take

place. Only actions in the legal arena will do that. So while it is important

for you'all to hear and keep up with the TRUTH....it is more important for

those of us (unfortunately very few) who are trying to prevent these acts from

becoming fruit.

 

With that being said......YES....get with your legislators and harass the

heck out of them to stop the FDA and biased allopathic agenda. Read Life

Extension March 2004 expose on ALL of western medicines failures and tell

Congress to

pay attention to the REAL problem instead of picking on wholistic natural

medicine. Get your patients to sign and send millions of letters to your

legislators. That kind of grassroots will have an effect in the very near

future. Let

us see every acupuncturist in the United States (some 20,000+ another 4,000

students) cause to be sent to congress some 20 million letters of

correspondence.

Those of you wanting to be involved - focus your attention on that project

instead of trying to do what only a few of us need to do. That is attainable if

each acupuncturist gets 100 letters sent to congress about these issues.

 

You want to further the effort - freely donate MONEY, $$$$$, greenbacks....

to those select few organizations that are REALLY doing something about these

issues. Without it being commercial spam (although no membership fee is

required)......as far as I can see there is ONLY one organization doing anything

or

should I say has a track record of documented results. All the rest are

rhetoric. Carousing with the enemy of natural medicine cannot never be a

successful

strategy nor wil it accomplish anything.

 

As to Miss Harris....I never said that she wasn't to be recognized for

whatever her involvement might have been in acupuncture in Florida. I am stating

FACT regard Dr. Al Girardo DS was the KEY sponsor and driving force for the

Acupuncture Practice Act FS457 in 1980. To date I haven't been able to find

anything sponsored by KH although you have repeatedly pointed to some bill for

which

- so far - no copy has been located. I suspect there was something but not

until 1986 or thereabouts. Long after the practice came into existence. I have

asked a number of times about getting a written copy of that purported bill so

we can see what was intended to no avail. To date unless it is proved otherwise

the FACTS remain that Dr. Al Girardo was the primary driving force for THE

Florida acupuncture practice act in 1980. By the way....there are many

legislators from that time frame who confirm that Dr Girardo was the father of

the

Acupuncture practice act and nothing has ever been stated even as part of the

scenario about KH. Again I don't doubt that she might have sponsored some bill

along the way trying to amend something but let's SEE that bill which as you

know

- FAILED.

 

Richard

 

 

 

In a message dated 3/21/2004 1:36:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, petet

writes:

Hi Richard!

 

This month's print issue of Acupuncture Today - is this different from the

online version? The print version certainly reads to me that " Asian

Medicine " is good to go with ma huang and ban xia. Perhaps you could

provide a link to the John Chen article? We all need to read on the same page.

 

Katherine Harris is my Congresswoman, I speak to her in person several

times each year and visit her office at least once a month. For me to send

the sample email to her without acknowledging her contribution, which is

more than you are willing to credit (so be that) would make no sense.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lady Melody

 

Read my few very but succint sentences in 'Acupuncture Today'. Probably the

most clear, honest and to the point. Then read John Chen's posted truthful

update. You are confused because you are being misinformed by other people who

DO

NOT understand much about these issues and should stay doing whatever else

they are doing and keep out of the main part of this political battle.

 

read http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2004/apr/04fdaephedra.html

 

within the same article - COMPARE - and evaluate.

 

" Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine National Coalition

The FDA rule does not exempt ephedrine alkaloids at all - even as used in the

practice of herbal medicine.

Federal law preempts state law.

The FDA does not regulate the licensure of practitioners, yet the FDA rule

will negatively affect all practitioners utilizing materia medica.

The FDA rule bars the use of all botanical sources of ephedrine alkaloids

determined by the FDA to be a dietary food supplement which is unsafe.

Richard A. Freiberg, OMD, NMD

Founder/Director "

Then read Dr. John Chen's post to Acupuncture Today..... who followed my lead

after AOMNCs discussion with the FDA.

 

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/news/chenletter.html

 

Then - all - should be able to SEE what is transpiring.

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 3/20/2004 11:27:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,

s.sanctuary writes:

Can I get some clarity here from someone?? Ma Huang and Ban Xia have been

banned by the FDA with the exception being the scope of Asian medicine (TCM)

right? which means that it can't be sold over the counter in dietary

supplements. As I am reading and understanding it, this ban also effects

formulas and use with in them?? so does this mean it is limited then to the

use of raw herbs prescribed?? and why is it effecting the formulas if they

are prescribed by practitioners??

 

I am obviously missing a bit and would like some .. clarification if some

one could and would help.

 

Lady Melody

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lady Melody

 

Without it being considered commercial spam.....I openly say.....Students and

Practitioners alike....JOIN AOMNC.

 

AOMNC doesn't have any membership fees as we are not selling memberships.

 

AOMNC was formed for all the unspoken-for who couldn't afford DUES or didn't

want to spend the money.

 

AOMNCs mission statements are clear.

 

AOMNCs track record is clear. What AOMNC fights for. What AOMNC wins. What

AOMNC is doing for the profession.

 

All of this is what in Sanskrit is called SEVA. Translated it means

'service'. Service to our fellow humans who suffer in pain and do not need to

suffer...especially when wholistic natural medical systems are allowed to

continue to

exist as they have for tens of thousdands of years and are respected.

 

Richard

 

In a message dated 3/21/2004 10:23:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,

s.sanctuary writes:

Thank you Richard for the information.. If there is anything we, i.e. soon

to grad students can do to assist please let me know and I will pass it on

at my school..

 

Lady Melody

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete

 

Printed version just arrived which most all int he states should be capable

of checking out themselves. On line and printed version looks the SAME to me at

a very brief glance.

 

The problem I have with this article is that it appears that THEY (AT) have

summarized a conclusion in THEIR heading - to be FACT that Traditional Asian

Medicine has been EXEMPTED.

 

If one does their homework.....certainly which appears NOT to be the case.

 

And whatever this new codon means which the FDAs has pulled out of thin air

calling it 'TAM' or TRADITIONAL ASIAN MEDICINE. I don't believe there could

be or is any such thing. Just a 'not so nice' way of grouping all herbal

medicine into one location to take a swat at.

 

FDA Issues Final Ruling on Ephedra

Regulation Bans Sales of Supplements Effective April 12; " Traditional Asian

Medicine " Exempted

 

Richard

 

In a message dated 3/21/2004 1:36:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, petet

writes:

Hi Richard!

 

This month's print issue of Acupuncture Today - is this different from the

online version? The print version certainly reads to me that " Asian

Medicine " is good to go with ma huang and ban xia. Perhaps you could

provide a link to the John Chen article? We all need to read on the same page.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

There is only ONE reference to that newly and arbitrarily and capriciously

created term (CODON) and it was the FDA who pulled it out of the air.

 

It is meaningless in it's attempt at being all inclusive.

 

It is purposefully designed to confuse and purposefully designed to TRY to

catch-all use of herbs so they can take a big WHACK at them and consider them

all.....the use of ILLEGAL DRUGS.

 

Of course TCM would be included.

 

But so what?

 

Let's stay FOCUSED on the legal ball they are trying to hide..... instead of

on the prestidigitation games they are playing.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 3/21/2004 12:50:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

s.sanctuary writes:

Does anyone have a reference to the term they use TAM???? It kind of sounds

as if maybe TCM could be or is not included there??

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you Richard for the information.. If there is anything we, i.e. soon

to grad students can do to assist please let me know and I will pass it on

at my school..

 

Lady Melody

 

acudoc11 [acudoc11]

Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:14 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso

Newsletter

 

 

Lady Melody

 

Read my few very but succint sentences in 'Acupuncture Today'. Probably

the

most clear, honest and to the point. Then read John Chen's posted truthful

update. You are confused because you are being misinformed by other people

who DO

NOT understand much about these issues and should stay doing whatever else

they are doing and keep out of the main part of this political battle.

 

read http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2004/apr/04fdaephedra.html

 

within the same article - COMPARE - and evaluate.

 

" Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine National Coalition

The FDA rule does not exempt ephedrine alkaloids at all - even as used in

the

practice of herbal medicine.

Federal law preempts state law.

The FDA does not regulate the licensure of practitioners, yet the FDA rule

will negatively affect all practitioners utilizing materia medica.

The FDA rule bars the use of all botanical sources of ephedrine alkaloids

determined by the FDA to be a dietary food supplement which is unsafe.

Richard A. Freiberg, OMD, NMD

Founder/Director "

Then read Dr. John Chen's post to Acupuncture Today..... who followed my

lead

after AOMNCs discussion with the FDA.

 

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/news/chenletter.html

 

Then - all - should be able to SEE what is transpiring.

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 3/20/2004 11:27:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,

s.sanctuary writes:

Can I get some clarity here from someone?? Ma Huang and Ban Xia have been

banned by the FDA with the exception being the scope of Asian medicine

(TCM)

right? which means that it can't be sold over the counter in dietary

supplements. As I am reading and understanding it, this ban also effects

formulas and use with in them?? so does this mean it is limited then to

the

use of raw herbs prescribed?? and why is it effecting the formulas if

they

are prescribed by practitioners??

 

I am obviously missing a bit and would like some .. clarification if some

one could and would help.

 

Lady Melody

 

 

[Guest guest]

I will check it out.. It would be nice to see the profession... kept as it

should be.. based on what it has been for thousands of years.. it kind of

seems that essence is getting lost..

 

Thanks,

Lady Melody

 

acudoc11 [acudoc11]

Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:33 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso

Newsletter

 

 

Lady Melody

 

Without it being considered commercial spam.....I openly say.....Students

and

Practitioners alike....JOIN AOMNC.

 

AOMNC doesn't have any membership fees as we are not selling memberships.

 

AOMNC was formed for all the unspoken-for who couldn't afford DUES or

didn't

want to spend the money.

 

AOMNCs mission statements are clear.

 

AOMNCs track record is clear. What AOMNC fights for. What AOMNC wins. What

AOMNC is doing for the profession.

 

All of this is what in Sanskrit is called SEVA. Translated it means

'service'. Service to our fellow humans who suffer in pain and do not need

to

suffer...especially when wholistic natural medical systems are allowed to

continue to

exist as they have for tens of thousdands of years and are respected.

 

Richard

 

In a message dated 3/21/2004 10:23:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,

s.sanctuary writes:

Thank you Richard for the information.. If there is anything we, i.e. soon

to grad students can do to assist please let me know and I will pass it on

at my school..

 

Lady Melody

 

 

[Guest guest]

Does anyone have a reference to the term they use TAM???? It kind of sounds

as if maybe TCM could be or is not included there??

 

acudoc11 [acudoc11]

Sunday, March 21, 2004 11:12 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso

Newsletter

 

 

Hi Pete

 

Printed version just arrived which most all int he states should be

capable

of checking out themselves. On line and printed version looks the SAME to

me at

a very brief glance.

 

The problem I have with this article is that it appears that THEY (AT)

have

summarized a conclusion in THEIR heading - to be FACT that Traditional

Asian

Medicine has been EXEMPTED.

 

If one does their homework.....certainly which appears NOT to be the case.

 

And whatever this new codon means which the FDAs has pulled out of thin

air

calling it 'TAM' or TRADITIONAL ASIAN MEDICINE. I don't believe there

could

be or is any such thing. Just a 'not so nice' way of grouping all herbal

medicine into one location to take a swat at.

 

FDA Issues Final Ruling on Ephedra

Regulation Bans Sales of Supplements Effective April 12; " Traditional

Asian

Medicine " Exempted

 

Richard

 

In a message dated 3/21/2004 1:36:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,

petet

writes:

Hi Richard!

 

This month's print issue of Acupuncture Today - is this different from the

online version? The print version certainly reads to me that " Asian

Medicine " is good to go with ma huang and ban xia. Perhaps you could

provide a link to the John Chen article? We all need to read on the same

page.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree.. let me know how I can further help.. yes I joined..

 

Lady Melody

 

acudoc11 [acudoc11]

Sunday, March 21, 2004 1:04 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Practitioner Call to Action on Ephedra Ban - Honso

Newsletter

 

 

There is only ONE reference to that newly and arbitrarily and capriciously

created term (CODON) and it was the FDA who pulled it out of the air.

 

It is meaningless in it's attempt at being all inclusive.

 

It is purposefully designed to confuse and purposefully designed to TRY to

catch-all use of herbs so they can take a big WHACK at them and consider

them

all.....the use of ILLEGAL DRUGS.

 

Of course TCM would be included.

 

But so what?

 

Let's stay FOCUSED on the legal ball they are trying to hide..... instead

of

on the prestidigitation games they are playing.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 3/21/2004 12:50:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

s.sanctuary writes:

Does anyone have a reference to the term they use TAM???? It kind of

sounds

as if maybe TCM could be or is not included there??

 

 

[Guest guest]

Pete

 

Girardo was one of the most powerful legislators in Florida especially at

that time. Possibly KH might have been a co-sponsor or sponsored the companion

bill in the House. Dr. Girardo was the individual who made it happen.

 

Dr John Chen is NOT paranoid and is 1000% correct. Without you taking it

personally....as it is not meant as an attack on you.....too many people TRY to

read legal language and do NOT understand what they are reading. The FDA

language and intent is VERY clear. There is NO exemption. If there was - the

words

would clearly say so.

 

I have never said to anyone not to write to Congress. And others who want to

be wishy washy in certain arenas or negotiate with the enemy........ their

choice for others to see and ultimately decide whether those actions will be

judged or not. Others actions will be straightforward and decisive.

 

Commenting on one individuals point of view based upon yet another person's

opinion is certainly no way to arrive at whether or not the first person's

opinion is correct or even logical. (someone else alluded to this).

 

Anyone who knows anything about basic law especially state versus federal

law.....knows that unless the federal law pre-empts - there is NONE regardless

of

whose opinion is being offered or listened to.

 

Judy Saxe very well points to the prestidigitation. Everyone goes paranoid

watching the wrong arena and misses the under-handedness elsewhere.

 

By the way...even if Congress were to pass such arbitrary and capricious

legislation those laws can and will most likely be challenged as

unconstitutional.

There is such a thing as unconsitutional law. Just depends on who is willing

to step up to the plate for their profession.

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 3/22/2004 1:04:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

petet writes:

Hi Richard!

 

Let's not see a debate in this - I am on the same side as you are, I just

wonder about the tone of it and also the details.

 

You mean to tell me that your State congress person couldn't give you a

copy of that bill Katherine Harris introduced? Dr. Al Girardo DS - was he a

member of that congress? I think perhaps Dr. Al Girardo DS wrote it, and

(then) Florida State Senator Katherine Harris introduced it? I have the

thing at home, send me your address or fax number and I'll pop a copy of it

for you into the mail/fax. That was months ago we talked about it, I

thought you would have it by now. As far as I can see, the bill Katherine

introduced passed the following year (by then she was Secretary of State)

in essentially the same form as she introduced it with minor detail changes

at the most.

 

I am confused by this reading of the FDA regulation. On the one hand, from

the wording it seems like *we* have an OK, but Dr. Chen says he and the

unnamed lawyers think not. This could appear to be a paranoid reaction,

unless we word our letters carefully. I think we need to voice a concern to

congress, and I will do so this week to Katherine Harris, but I think we

should not panic and especially should not appear to panic.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Richard!

 

Let's not see a debate in this - I am on the same side as you are, I just

wonder about the tone of it and also the details.

 

You mean to tell me that your State congress person couldn't give you a

copy of that bill Katherine Harris introduced? Dr. Al Girardo DS - was he a

member of that congress? I think perhaps Dr. Al Girardo DS wrote it, and

(then) Florida State Senator Katherine Harris introduced it? I have the

thing at home, send me your address or fax number and I'll pop a copy of it

for you into the mail/fax. That was months ago we talked about it, I

thought you would have it by now. As far as I can see, the bill Katherine

introduced passed the following year (by then she was Secretary of State)

in essentially the same form as she introduced it with minor detail changes

at the most.

 

I am confused by this reading of the FDA regulation. On the one hand, from

the wording it seems like *we* have an OK, but Dr. Chen says he and the

unnamed lawyers think not. This could appear to be a paranoid reaction,

unless we word our letters carefully. I think we need to voice a concern to

congress, and I will do so this week to Katherine Harris, but I think we

should not panic and especially should not appear to panic.

 

At 09:59 AM 3/21/2004, you wrote:

>Hello Pete

>

>While I actively engage in these information groups as much as

>possible.....at the same time my time and energy is engrossed in the

>'battle' more

>importantly so. I suggested that ALL look at Acupuncture Today. Since

>spoonfeeding is

>necessary....here is the link...

> http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/news/chenletter.html

>

>Your need to read and know the truth although a valid right and urgently

>important...it is not my responsibility to insure that you are all properly

>informed. One would think that responsible journalism would take care of

>that.

>

>Additionally at this point in time these e-mail arena debates won't change

>RIGHT NOW what the powers that be are attempting and what absolutely MUST

>take

>place. Only actions in the legal arena will do that. So while it is important

>for you'all to hear and keep up with the TRUTH....it is more important for

>those of us (unfortunately very few) who are trying to prevent these acts

>from

>becoming fruit.

>

>With that being said......YES....get with your legislators and harass the

>heck out of them to stop the FDA and biased allopathic agenda. Read Life

>Extension March 2004 expose on ALL of western medicines failures and tell

>Congress to

>pay attention to the REAL problem instead of picking on wholistic natural

>medicine. Get your patients to sign and send millions of letters to your

>legislators. That kind of grassroots will have an effect in the very near

>future. Let

>us see every acupuncturist in the United States (some 20,000+ another 4,000

>students) cause to be sent to congress some 20 million letters of

>correspondence.

>Those of you wanting to be involved - focus your attention on that project

>instead of trying to do what only a few of us need to do. That is

>attainable if

>each acupuncturist gets 100 letters sent to congress about these issues.

>

>You want to further the effort - freely donate MONEY, $$$$$, greenbacks....

>to those select few organizations that are REALLY doing something about these

>issues. Without it being commercial spam (although no membership fee is

>required)......as far as I can see there is ONLY one organization doing

>anything or

>should I say has a track record of documented results. All the rest are

>rhetoric. Carousing with the enemy of natural medicine cannot never be a

>successful

>strategy nor wil it accomplish anything.

>

>As to Miss Harris....I never said that she wasn't to be recognized for

>whatever her involvement might have been in acupuncture in Florida. I am

>stating

>FACT regard Dr. Al Girardo DS was the KEY sponsor and driving force for the

>Acupuncture Practice Act FS457 in 1980. To date I haven't been able to find

>anything sponsored by KH although you have repeatedly pointed to some bill

>for which

>- so far - no copy has been located. I suspect there was something but not

>until 1986 or thereabouts. Long after the practice came into existence. I

>have

>asked a number of times about getting a written copy of that purported

>bill so

>we can see what was intended to no avail. To date unless it is proved

>otherwise

>the FACTS remain that Dr. Al Girardo was the primary driving force for THE

>Florida acupuncture practice act in 1980. By the way....there are many

>legislators from that time frame who confirm that Dr Girardo was the

>father of the

>Acupuncture practice act and nothing has ever been stated even as part of the

>scenario about KH. Again I don't doubt that she might have sponsored some

>bill

>along the way trying to amend something but let's SEE that bill which as

>you know

>- FAILED.

>

>Richard

>

>

>

>In a message dated 3/21/2004 1:36:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, petet

>writes:

>Hi Richard!

>

>This month's print issue of Acupuncture Today - is this different from the

>online version? The print version certainly reads to me that " Asian

>Medicine " is good to go with ma huang and ban xia. Perhaps you could

>provide a link to the John Chen article? We all need to read on the same page.

>

>Katherine Harris is my Congresswoman, I speak to her in person several

>times each year and visit her office at least once a month. For me to send

>the sample email to her without acknowledging her contribution, which is

>more than you are willing to credit (so be that) would make no sense.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Richard!

 

Oh, I am not saying anyone is paranoid, I am saying we have to be careful

we don't *look* paranoid. KH was a State Senator, perhaps Dr. G was in the

House? So what was your fax/mail address for that copy?

 

At 01:33 AM 3/22/2004, you wrote:

>Pete

>

>Girardo was one of the most powerful legislators in Florida especially at

>that time. Possibly KH might have been a co-sponsor or sponsored the

>companion

>bill in the House. Dr. Girardo was the individual who made it happen.

>

>Dr John Chen is NOT paranoid and is 1000% correct. Without you taking it

>personally....as it is not meant as an attack on you.....too many people

>TRY to

>read legal language and do NOT understand what they are reading. The FDA

>language and intent is VERY clear. There is NO exemption. If there was -

>the words

>would clearly say so.

 

Regards,

 

Pete