Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Hi, does anyone have some suggestions about where to study TCM, tui na, etc in China. Name of school, ways to contact from the US, stuff like that. Thanks, Ward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Ward: I also was looking for schools and hospitals to train in. This is what my conclusion were: Beijing doesn't implement TCM as the first line of therapy, they start with Western Medicine. This is what I have learned being on this group. The other cities that implement TCM the best would include nanjing, Hangzhou and ShangHai. There is a group of students going to Nanjing sometime in September for a month. You can contact the TCM school in Oregon, I don not know if they have the specific dates as of yet. I plan on attending with this group and staying for another month or two studying longer in Nanjing and a month or so in Huangzhou. I can get the contact info for Hangazhou if you are interested. It's supposed to be the most beautiful place in China. Here is the web site for Hangzhou and the email of the person I have been speaking to: http://www.chinatcm.org/ zjhtcm3 Here is the response I received for Nanjing. I hope this helps... Brian nju iec <njuiecSent : Tuesday, April 6, 2004 6:34 PMTo : doctorbrian00 : RE: Clinical Training|||Inbox Dear Mr. Brian, Thanks for your e-mail, you are welcome to study here in June. The teaching language is English,you will follow your doctor and translator in hospital and doctor will explain every cases you meet with patients. The tuitiion fee for one month is us$1000. You will stay at campus hotel with single room price of us$14 per day. Please let me know your arrival in Nanjing , so that we can arrange everything for you in advance. Thanks again for your e-mail. Sincerely, Hui tel; 86-25-86798167, 86798168 |||Inbox Dear Mr. Brian, Thanks for your e-mail, you are welcome to study here in June. The teaching language is English,you will follow your doctor and translator in hospital and doctor will explain every cases you meet with patients. The tuitiion fee for one month is us$1000. You will stay at campus hotel with single room price of us$14 per day. Please let me know your arrival in Nanjing , so that we can arrange everything for you in advance. Thanks again for your e-mail. Sincerely, Hui tel; 86-25-86798167, 86798168 Ward Willison <ward wrote: Hi, does anyone have some suggestions about where to study TCM, tui na, etc in China. Name of school, ways to contact from the US, stuff like that. Thanks, Ward Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Hi Brian, Have you studied in China before? I studied in Nanjing Uni and at the 1st Provincial Hospital in 2002 for my year of clinic training. The most important thing is not to get your expectations too high. Western Medicine is integrated to a high degree in all " TCM " hospitals in the larger cities; including Nanjing. The degree of western medicine depends on the doctor you get and the severity of the condition of the patient. In-patients receive much more western treatment in general than TCM. However, don't be surprised to see antibiotics fed to children for every cough or corticosteroids in dermatology, anti-hypertensives and diabetic drugs etc. Blood tests, x--rays, CT's etc are routine as diagnostic tools. The chances of a doctor explaining every case are next to 0. Patients may only get a 5 minutes consultation with no break between patients for discussion and many translators are disinterested or incompetent. It isn't all bad there; however, the lower your expectations.......the more pleased you will be with the experience. Best Wishes, Steve On 09/06/2004, at 2:16 AM, Brian Hardy wrote: > Ward: > > I also was looking for schools and hospitals to train in. This is what > my conclusion were: > > Beijing doesn't implement TCM as the first line of therapy, they start > with Western Medicine. This is what I have learned being on this > group. > > The other cities that implement TCM the best would include nanjing, > Hangzhou and ShangHai. > > There is a group of students going to Nanjing sometime in September > for a month. You can contact the TCM school in Oregon, I don not know > if they have the specific dates as of yet. I plan on attending with > this group and staying for another month or two studying longer in > Nanjing and a month or so in Huangzhou. > > I can get the contact info for Hangazhou if you are interested. It's > supposed to be the most beautiful place in China. Here is the web site > for Hangzhou and the email of the person I have been speaking to: > > http://www.chinatcm.org/ > > zjhtcm3 > > > Here is the response I received for Nanjing. I hope this helps... > > Brian > > nju iec <njuiecSent : Tuesday, April 6, 2004 6:34 PMTo : > doctorbrian00 : RE: Clinical Training|||Inbox Dear > Mr. Brian, > Thanks for your e-mail, you are welcome to study here in June. > > The teaching language is English,you will follow your doctor and > translator in hospital and doctor will explain every cases you meet > with patients. > > The tuitiion fee for one month is us$1000. > > You will stay at campus hotel with single room price of us$14 per day. > > Please let me know your arrival in Nanjing , so that we can arrange > everything for you in advance. > > Thanks again for your e-mail. > > Sincerely, > Hui > > tel; 86-25-86798167, 86798168 > > |||Inbox Dear Mr. Brian, > Thanks for your e-mail, you are welcome to study here in June. > > The teaching language is English,you will follow your doctor and > translator in hospital and doctor will explain every cases you meet > with patients. > > The tuitiion fee for one month is us$1000. > > You will stay at campus hotel with single room price of us$14 per day. > > Please let me know your arrival in Nanjing , so that we can arrange > everything for you in advance. > > Thanks again for your e-mail. > > Sincerely, > Hui > > tel; 86-25-86798167, 86798168 > > > > > > Ward Willison <ward wrote: > Hi, does anyone have some suggestions about where to study TCM, tui > na, etc > in China. Name of school, ways to contact from the US, stuff like that. > Thanks, > Ward > > > > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, > religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being > delivered. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Hi Brian In part of my experience practice in Chine I agree with Steven, high expectations is always a nuisance. But his experience of a lot of west medicine was not the case for me in Shanghai I was in a group and at four different hospitals, mainly the Seamens International Hospital We got to do almost only acupuncture, some cupping and moxa, all day long, Acupuncture and tuina were distinct departments. Not big, but enough for us. The treatment was often very simple acupuncture, often local points And the patients we met was that selection of patients that would come to those departments. The treatment worked anyway. The translators were extremely competent and the doctors were great and generous and skilled. We had a great time and learned a lot. The patients we needled were great to. There was not one day without lots of fun and laughter in the clinic. I guess the difference is in how it is set up. I wish you good luck to Holger Wendt 2004-06-08 kl. 21.31 skrev Steven Slater: > Hi Brian, > > Have you studied in China before? > > I studied in Nanjing Uni and at the 1st Provincial Hospital in 2002 for > my year of clinic training. > > The most important thing is not to get your expectations too high. > Western Medicine is integrated to a high degree in all " TCM " hospitals > in the larger cities; including Nanjing. > The degree of western medicine depends on the doctor you get and the > severity of the condition of the patient. In-patients receive much more > western treatment in general than TCM. However, don't be surprised to > see antibiotics fed to children for every cough or corticosteroids in > dermatology, anti-hypertensives and diabetic drugs etc. > > Blood tests, x--rays, CT's etc are routine as diagnostic tools. > > The chances of a doctor explaining every case are next to 0. Patients > may only get a 5 minutes consultation with no break between patients > for discussion and many translators are disinterested or incompetent. > > It isn't all bad there; however, the lower your expectations.......the > more pleased you will be with the experience. > > Best Wishes, > > Steve > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Hi Brian and Holger, Sorry, I should have made it clear that my post was in terms of herbal medicine....... not acupuncture. That means internal medicine, gynecology, pediatrics etc......NOT acupuncture or tuina. Acupuncture was certainly a more relaxed and educational clinical experience. Many patients come in 5 days a week, so a case can be well documented and discussed. Patients were rapidly needled and all 8 beds in my room filled within 10 minutes of the morning start. This allowed the next 20 minutes of needle retention to discuss cases, theory and get to know the doctor and share life. However, some groups were never allowed to needle, so beware and insist if necessary But I must make it abundantly clear that this is completely different to overall TCM in the hospital. By TCM I mean the 90% of treatments which are undertaken outside acupuncture and tuina departments. Herbal medicine is the major treatment modality used TCM, acupuncture is far less utilized than herbal medicine and western drugs; and generally restricted to for pain. stroke recovery and weight loss in my experience. Acupuncture as it is practiced in the west is VERY different from that practiced in the hospital setting of modern china. By comparison, cases in the herbal/western medicine departments are as I suggested. 5 minute consults and no time between patients (if the doctor is good ie. popular). This equates to up to 80 patients a day. This exhausts doctors, translators and students. Complete histories are impossible to obtain and theoretical discussions are rare. Brian, another suggestion for you is to get far more information of what you will be given in terms of grouping of students with a doctor, what you will learn, will you be allowed to do and not do etc. For example, in the 8 weeks of internal medicine; the plan was 2 weeks observation, 2 weeks practice prescription with feedback from doctor and 4 weeks supervised practice..........chinese translation in reality........8 weeks observation with no practice and very little doctor feedback. English students from various colleges were occasionally dumped into a group with no explanation or request for approval. These students when questioned about why they had joined us explained that they were here to talk to us to practice their english!!!!! In other words, distract you from learning as much as they could (lol......a joke, but result the same). My advice is to get as much of the details of your clinic time in writing to use when things go different to planned, and they most definitely will!! If you want what is promised, you must fight for it, albeit with cultural sensitivity and extreme patience......but volume when necessary. Also, get to know Hui early and try to develop a friendship with her. She is shy to begin with, and a little clicky if you don't make an early effort to befriend her. This goes for all relationships in china I suppose. Guan xi can not be underrated!! I hope this information is useful. Best Wishes, Steve On 09/06/2004, at 6:57 AM, Holger Wendt wrote: > Hi Brian > > In part of my experience practice in Chine I agree with Steven, > high expectations is always a nuisance. > > But his experience of a lot of west medicine was not the case for me in > Shanghai > > I was in a group and at four different hospitals, mainly the Seamens > International Hospital > We got to do almost only acupuncture, some cupping and moxa, all day > long, > Acupuncture and tuina were distinct departments. Not big, but enough > for us. > > The treatment was often very simple acupuncture, often local points > And the patients we met was that selection of patients > that would come to those departments. The treatment worked anyway. > > The translators were extremely competent and the doctors were great and > generous and skilled. > We had a great time and learned a lot. The patients we needled were > great to. There was not one day without lots of fun and laughter in the > clinic. > > I guess the difference is in how it is set up. > > I wish you good luck to > > Holger Wendt > > > Dr. Steven J Slater Practitioner and Acupuncturist Mobile: 0418 343 545 chinese_medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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