Guest guest Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 I am considering taking a 3 weekend coursethat is being taught by Susan Johnson on Master Tung's Magic Points. I would appreciate any information who has taken the course or has been using Master Tung's points on the effectiveness of these points before deciding to spend the 900.00 for the course Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Brian - I have been using the Master Tong points now for about the 10 years that I have been in practice. Ironically, I was first exposed to the points in a Richard Tan presentation way-back-when after he published a few of them in his " 12 & 12 in Acupuncture " . I have found them to be an immensely valuable clinical tool. After Dr. Tan's lecture, I immediately purchases the Miriam Lee book, " Master Tong's Acupuncture " by Blue Poppy Press, and I started to pour through it. It took many readings and much trial and error before I started to get an idea of how the system worked (and didn't work). Since then, I have been fortunate enough to attend a seminar by Dr. Young, Wei-Chi, who is the last surviving student of Master Tong. He is the one Dr. that Susan Johnson mentions in her literature. Dr. Young is also the one who taught Miriam Lee. Although I have not personally attended Susan's seminars, I have heard nothing but rave reviews about them, and Dr. Young (who knew Master Tong personally) speaks highly of Susan as a teacher. My advice would be the following: Pick up Miriam Lee's book by Blue Poppy Press if you don't already have it. You will hear at Susan's seminar that there are a number of incorrect locations listed in the book which she will point out with her book. Ok whatever. I still have found the exposure to this book to be invaluable when I studied with Young Wei-Chi. The diagrams and case histories are excellent. I would also expose yourself to the ideas of Dr. Chiao Chen and his Ba Gua acupuncture system. Dr. Chen is famous in the Chinese Acupuncture Community for his quick results. His short, but potent, book is a quick read. You can find the add for his book and seminars in Acupuncture Today. All of these systems rely on a good understanding of channel theory, something which TCM acupuncture lost along the way. All of this was a long-winded way of saying that I think Susan's seminar will be extremely valuable as a clinical tool. Ray Rubio On Aug 23, 2004, at 9:41 AM, mischievous00 wrote: > I am considering taking a 3 weekend coursethat is being taught by > Susan Johnson on Master Tung's Magic Points. > > I would appreciate any information who has taken the course or has > been using Master Tung's points on the effectiveness of these points > before deciding to spend the 900.00 for the course > > Thanks > > Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Hi Ray, You mentioned Dr Chiao Chen book. What is the title of it? Haven't found it on acupuncturetoday.com. Thanks May On 24/8/04 4:00 pm, " Ray Rubio " <RTOO wrote: > > Brian - > > I have been using the Master Tong points now for about the 10 years > that I have been in practice. Ironically, I was first exposed to the > points in a Richard Tan presentation way-back-when after he published a > few of them in his " 12 & 12 in Acupuncture " . I have found them to be an > immensely valuable clinical tool. After Dr. Tan's lecture, I > immediately purchases the Miriam Lee book, " Master Tong's Acupuncture " > by Blue Poppy Press, and I started to pour through it. It took many > readings and much trial and error before I started to get an idea of > how the system worked (and didn't work). Since then, I have been > fortunate enough to attend a seminar by Dr. Young, Wei-Chi, who is the > last surviving student of Master Tong. He is the one Dr. that Susan > Johnson mentions in her literature. Dr. Young is also the one who > taught Miriam Lee. Although I have not personally attended Susan's > seminars, I have heard nothing but rave reviews about them, and Dr. > Young (who knew Master Tong personally) speaks highly of Susan as a > teacher. > > My advice would be the following: Pick up Miriam Lee's book by Blue > Poppy Press if you don't already have it. You will hear at Susan's > seminar that there are a number of incorrect locations listed in the > book which she will point out with her book. Ok whatever. I still have > found the exposure to this book to be invaluable when I studied with > Young Wei-Chi. The diagrams and case histories are excellent. I would > also expose yourself to the ideas of Dr. Chiao Chen and his Ba Gua > acupuncture system. Dr. Chen is famous in the Chinese Acupuncture > Community for his quick results. His short, but potent, book is a quick > read. You can find the add for his book and seminars in Acupuncture > Today. All of these systems rely on a good understanding of channel > theory, something which TCM acupuncture lost along the way. > > All of this was a long-winded way of saying that I think Susan's > seminar will be extremely valuable as a clinical tool. > > Ray Rubio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 I am considering taking a 3 weekend coursethat is being taught by Susan Johnson on Master Tung's Magic Points. >>>I have been using Tong's acup for over 20 years. I do not believe there are any MAGIC points. The strength of the system is its simplicity, use of nonlocal points and often quick but short term pain relief. The biggest weakness is that many treatments are usually needed to see any real change. I would take any clinical promises with a grain of salt alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 http://www.ichingmedicine.com/ http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2003/oct/10twicken.html Chinese Medicine , May Lucken- Ardjomande <maylucken@q...> wrote: > Hi Ray, > > You mentioned Dr Chiao Chen book. What is the title of it? Haven't found it > on acupuncturetoday.com. > > Thanks > > May > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 What is the difference between Dr. Chens balance method and Dr. Tan's balance method Thanks briansbeard <brian_s_beard wrote: http://www.ichingmedicine.com/ http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2003/oct/10twicken.html Chinese Medicine , May Lucken- Ardjomande <maylucken@q...> wrote: > Hi Ray, > > You mentioned Dr Chiao Chen book. What is the title of it? Haven't found it > on acupuncturetoday.com. > > Thanks > > May > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Brian - I believe it is called Ba Gua Acupuncture. The co-author's name is David Twicken. David has a series of articles in Acupuncture Today, including one this month regarding the Hun and Po. He is Dr. Chen's student, so you could always email him for more info on the books and seminars with Dr. Chen. Ray. On Aug 24, 2004, at 10:06 AM, May Lucken-Ardjomande wrote: > Hi Ray, > > You mentioned Dr Chiao Chen book. What is the title of it? Haven't > found it > on acupuncturetoday.com. > > Thanks > > May > > On 24/8/04 4:00 pm, " Ray Rubio " <RTOO wrote: > >> >> Brian - >> >> I have been using the Master Tong points now for about the 10 years >> that I have been in practice. Ironically, I was first exposed to the >> points in a Richard Tan presentation way-back-when after he published >> a >> few of them in his " 12 & 12 in Acupuncture " . I have found them to be >> an >> immensely valuable clinical tool. After Dr. Tan's lecture, I >> immediately purchases the Miriam Lee book, " Master Tong's Acupuncture " >> by Blue Poppy Press, and I started to pour through it. It took many >> readings and much trial and error before I started to get an idea of >> how the system worked (and didn't work). Since then, I have been >> fortunate enough to attend a seminar by Dr. Young, Wei-Chi, who is the >> last surviving student of Master Tong. He is the one Dr. that Susan >> Johnson mentions in her literature. Dr. Young is also the one who >> taught Miriam Lee. Although I have not personally attended Susan's >> seminars, I have heard nothing but rave reviews about them, and Dr. >> Young (who knew Master Tong personally) speaks highly of Susan as a >> teacher. >> >> My advice would be the following: Pick up Miriam Lee's book by Blue >> Poppy Press if you don't already have it. You will hear at Susan's >> seminar that there are a number of incorrect locations listed in the >> book which she will point out with her book. Ok whatever. I still have >> found the exposure to this book to be invaluable when I studied with >> Young Wei-Chi. The diagrams and case histories are excellent. I would >> also expose yourself to the ideas of Dr. Chiao Chen and his Ba Gua >> acupuncture system. Dr. Chen is famous in the Chinese Acupuncture >> Community for his quick results. His short, but potent, book is a >> quick >> read. You can find the add for his book and seminars in Acupuncture >> Today. All of these systems rely on a good understanding of channel >> theory, something which TCM acupuncture lost along the way. >> >> All of this was a long-winded way of saying that I think Susan's >> seminar will be extremely valuable as a clinical tool. >> >> Ray Rubio > > > > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being > delivered. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Ray, Brian and all It is called I Ching Acupuncture. The website of dr Chen is: http://www.ichingmedicine.com/ Books and schedules of courses and seminars are on the website The website of David Twicken is: http://www.healingqi.com/ Best wishes Alwin Chinese Medicine , Ray Rubio <RTOO@e...> wrote: > Brian - > > I believe it is called Ba Gua Acupuncture. The co-author's name is > David Twicken. David has a series of articles in Acupuncture Today, > including one this month regarding the Hun and Po. He is Dr. Chen's > student, so you could always email him for more info on the books and > seminars with Dr. Chen. > > Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Having studied directly from Chen Chao and from Richard Tan, as well as directly with Young Wei-chieh (Master Tung's points), I see Richard Tan's BM as a mixture of Master Tung's style and Chen Chao's system. Dr. Chen is the founder of I Ching Acupuncture, which Richard Tan learned, however, Richard makes use of older elements of the system like the Fu Xi Ba Gua, Seasonal Ba Gua and the 8 extras, which Dr. Chen has largely put on the backburner. Dr. Chen is currently retired. Dr. Chen's work is more based on the Shen Nong Ba Gua and is very simplified and streamlined, and has advanced use of the I Ching symbolic meanings, which Tan does not teach. Tan is a more simplified system for the masses, but a good introduction to practical acupuncture. Tan's system 1, 2, 3 is Master Tung's work, whereas systems 4 and 5 are more of Manaka's style. Tan in general is admitted to have been self taught in Master Tung style, and does an older version of Dr. Chen's work. Of course, Dr. Tan's 12 magic points and Ba Gua Pulse system is pretty much his own, although much of the pulse work appears to me from Jimmy Chang (Zhang Wei-yen). So in essence Tan is an eclectic, but a good one. I highly respect his work. Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD chusauli See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com >Brian Hardy <mischievous00 >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine >Re: Master Tung's Points >Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:30:09 -0700 (PDT) > >What is the difference between Dr. Chens balance method and Dr. Tan's >balance method >Thanks > >briansbeard <brian_s_beard wrote: > >http://www.ichingmedicine.com/ > >http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2003/oct/10twicken.html > >Chinese Medicine , May Lucken- >Ardjomande <maylucken@q...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > > > You mentioned Dr Chiao Chen book. What is the title of it? Haven't >found it > > on acupuncturetoday.com. > > > > Thanks > > > > May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Hi Robert, You mentioned that Dr. Chen is retired, but isn't his son practicing the same system? Matt Bauer - Robert Chu Chinese Medicine Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:57 AM Re: Master Tung's Points Having studied directly from Chen Chao and from Richard Tan, as well as directly with Young Wei-chieh (Master Tung's points), I see Richard Tan's BM as a mixture of Master Tung's style and Chen Chao's system. Dr. Chen is the founder of I Ching Acupuncture, which Richard Tan learned, however, Richard makes use of older elements of the system like the Fu Xi Ba Gua, Seasonal Ba Gua and the 8 extras, which Dr. Chen has largely put on the backburner. Dr. Chen is currently retired. Dr. Chen's work is more based on the Shen Nong Ba Gua and is very simplified and streamlined, and has advanced use of the I Ching symbolic meanings, which Tan does not teach. Tan is a more simplified system for the masses, but a good introduction to practical acupuncture. Tan's system 1, 2, 3 is Master Tung's work, whereas systems 4 and 5 are more of Manaka's style. Tan in general is admitted to have been self taught in Master Tung style, and does an older version of Dr. Chen's work. Of course, Dr. Tan's 12 magic points and Ba Gua Pulse system is pretty much his own, although much of the pulse work appears to me from Jimmy Chang (Zhang Wei-yen). So in essence Tan is an eclectic, but a good one. I highly respect his work. Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD chusauli See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com >Brian Hardy <mischievous00 >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine >Re: Master Tung's Points >Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:30:09 -0700 (PDT) > >What is the difference between Dr. Chens balance method and Dr. Tan's >balance method >Thanks > >briansbeard <brian_s_beard wrote: > >http://www.ichingmedicine.com/ > >http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2003/oct/10twicken.html > >Chinese Medicine , May Lucken- >Ardjomande <maylucken@q...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > > > You mentioned Dr Chiao Chen book. What is the title of it? Haven't >found it > > on acupuncturetoday.com. > > > > Thanks > > > > May http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Hi Matt, Yes, Dr. Chen Chao is retired. His son, Chen Yu is actively practicing the I Ching Acupuncture system in (I believe) Walnut or Diamond Bar area. Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD chusauli See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >Re: Master Tung's Points >Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:55:44 -0700 > >Hi Robert, > >You mentioned that Dr. Chen is retired, but isn't his son practicing the >same system? > >Matt Bauer > - > Robert Chu > Chinese Medicine > Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:57 AM > Re: Master Tung's Points > > > Having studied directly from Chen Chao and from Richard Tan, as well as > directly with Young Wei-chieh (Master Tung's points), I see Richard >Tan's BM > as a mixture of Master Tung's style and Chen Chao's system. Dr. Chen >is > the founder of I Ching Acupuncture, which Richard Tan learned, however, > Richard makes use of older elements of the system like the Fu Xi Ba Gua, > Seasonal Ba Gua and the 8 extras, which Dr. Chen has largely put on the > backburner. Dr. Chen is currently retired. > > Dr. Chen's work is more based on the Shen Nong Ba Gua and is very >simplified > and streamlined, and has advanced use of the I Ching symbolic meanings, > which Tan does not teach. Tan is a more simplified system for the >masses, > but a good introduction to practical acupuncture. Tan's system 1, 2, 3 >is > Master Tung's work, whereas systems 4 and 5 are more of Manaka's style. >Tan > in general is admitted to have been self taught in Master Tung style, >and > does an older version of Dr. Chen's work. Of course, Dr. Tan's 12 magic > points and Ba Gua Pulse system is pretty much his own, although much of >the > pulse work appears to me from Jimmy Chang (Zhang Wei-yen). So in >essence > Tan is an eclectic, but a good one. I highly respect his work. > > > > Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD > chusauli > > See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com > > > > > > >Brian Hardy <mischievous00 > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine > >Re: Master Tung's Points > >Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:30:09 -0700 (PDT) > > > >What is the difference between Dr. Chens balance method and Dr. Tan's > >balance method > >Thanks > > > >briansbeard <brian_s_beard wrote: > > > >http://www.ichingmedicine.com/ > > > >http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2003/oct/10twicken.html > > > >Chinese Medicine , May Lucken- > >Ardjomande <maylucken@q...> wrote: > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > You mentioned Dr Chiao Chen book. What is the title of it? Haven't > >found it > > > on acupuncturetoday.com. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > May > > > > >http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and adjust >accordingly. > > If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being >delivered. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the >group requires prior permission from the author. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Hi Brian et al dr. Chen's website is at: http://www.ichingmedicine.com His books and training are also mentioned David Twicken can be found at: http://www.healingqi.com He also sells the books and has training Best wishes Alwin Chinese Medicine , Ray Rubio <RTOO@e...> wrote: > Brian - > > I believe it is called Ba Gua Acupuncture. The co-author's name is > David Twicken. David has a series of articles in Acupuncture Today, > including one this month regarding the Hun and Po. He is Dr. Chen's > student, so you could always email him for more info on the books and > seminars with Dr. Chen. > > Ray. > > > > > On Aug 24, 2004, at 10:06 AM, May Lucken-Ardjomande wrote: > > > Hi Ray, > > > > You mentioned Dr Chiao Chen book. What is the title of it? Haven't > > found it > > on acupuncturetoday.com. > > > > Thanks > > > > May > > > > On 24/8/04 4:00 pm, " Ray Rubio " <RTOO@e...> wrote: > > > >> > >> Brian - > >> > >> I have been using the Master Tong points now for about the 10 years > >> that I have been in practice. Ironically, I was first exposed to the > >> points in a Richard Tan presentation way-back-when after he published > >> a > >> few of them in his " 12 & 12 in Acupuncture " . I have found them to be > >> an > >> immensely valuable clinical tool. After Dr. Tan's lecture, I > >> immediately purchases the Miriam Lee book, " Master Tong's Acupuncture " > >> by Blue Poppy Press, and I started to pour through it. It took many > >> readings and much trial and error before I started to get an idea of > >> how the system worked (and didn't work). Since then, I have been > >> fortunate enough to attend a seminar by Dr. Young, Wei-Chi, who is the > >> last surviving student of Master Tong. He is the one Dr. that Susan > >> Johnson mentions in her literature. Dr. Young is also the one who > >> taught Miriam Lee. Although I have not personally attended Susan's > >> seminars, I have heard nothing but rave reviews about them, and Dr. > >> Young (who knew Master Tong personally) speaks highly of Susan as a > >> teacher. > >> > >> My advice would be the following: Pick up Miriam Lee's book by Blue > >> Poppy Press if you don't already have it. You will hear at Susan's > >> seminar that there are a number of incorrect locations listed in the > >> book which she will point out with her book. Ok whatever. I still have > >> found the exposure to this book to be invaluable when I studied with > >> Young Wei-Chi. The diagrams and case histories are excellent. I would > >> also expose yourself to the ideas of Dr. Chiao Chen and his Ba Gua > >> acupuncture system. Dr. Chen is famous in the Chinese Acupuncture > >> Community for his quick results. His short, but potent, book is a > >> quick > >> read. You can find the add for his book and seminars in Acupuncture > >> Today. All of these systems rely on a good understanding of channel > >> theory, something which TCM acupuncture lost along the way. > >> > >> All of this was a long-winded way of saying that I think Susan's > >> seminar will be extremely valuable as a clinical tool. > >> > >> Ray Rubio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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