Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Hot tubs, they call them " spas " these days as they come with " jets " for hydrotherapy if desired. A client spent a week in the mountains at a hot spring and since arriving home he's been toying with the idea of putting a spa in his back yard. He already considered the " sitting in a hot vat of chemicals " aspect and has looked into ion and ozone purifiers. There's a federal law here in the USA that a spa can not be marketed that heats above 104 degrees. Are there precautions he needs to consider from an Asian medical perspective? Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Yeah sure, If he has a Yin deficiency excessive exposure to hot water will of course worsen the situation. I give out the following advise to those you have baths (hot tubs): " If having a bath, fill it up to waist height, do not cover the upper body and sit up. The water should not be excessively hot, 37-38 degrees. Keep both hands out of the water and bath yourself with water over your body. Bath for 30 minutes then wear socks, trousers and a t-shirt. " Kind regards Attilio D'Alberto <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com hyldemoer [hyldemoer] 28 September 2004 18:11 Chinese Medicine sitting in hot water Hot tubs, they call them " spas " these days as they come with " jets " for hydrotherapy if desired. A client spent a week in the mountains at a hot spring and since arriving home he's been toying with the idea of putting a spa in his back yard. He already considered the " sitting in a hot vat of chemicals " aspect and has looked into ion and ozone purifiers. There's a federal law here in the USA that a spa can not be marketed that heats above 104 degrees. Are there precautions he needs to consider from an Asian medical perspective? Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 I think Hot tubs as well as other activity that produces a sweat (raises body temperatures) fall under the Shan hung lun description of " inappropriate treatment " and should be considered when prescribing medicinals. I ask this question on my standard intake forms. Ed Kasper LAc, Santa Cruz, CA Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:21:53 +0100 " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto RE: sitting in hot water Yeah sure, If he has a Yin deficiency excessive exposure to hot water will of course worsen the situation. I give out the following advise to those you have baths (hot tubs): " If having a bath, fill it up to waist height, do not cover the upper body and sit up. The water should not be excessively hot, 37-38 degrees. Keep both hands out of the water and bath yourself with water over your body. Bath for 30 minutes then wear socks, trousers and a t-shirt. " Kind regards Attilio D'Alberto <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com hyldemoer [hyldemoer] 28 September 2004 18:11 Chinese Medicine sitting in hot water Hot tubs, they call them " spas " these days as they come with " jets " for hydrotherapy if desired. A client spent a week in the mountains at a hot spring and since arriving home he's been toying with the idea of putting a spa in his back yard. He already considered the " sitting in a hot vat of chemicals " aspect and has looked into ion and ozone purifiers. There's a federal law here in the USA that a spa can not be marketed that heats above 104 degrees. Are there precautions he needs to consider from an Asian medical perspective? Penel -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.271 / Virus Database: 264.9.8 - Release 9/28/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Very good point. Inappropriate sweating can cause a transmuted pattern ( a worsening, more complex disease). However, sometimes we can prescribe appropriate sweating in certain conditions and circumstances. On Sep 29, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Ed Kasper LAc wrote: > I think Hot tubs as well as other activity that produces a sweat > (raises > body temperatures) fall under the Shan hung lun description of > " inappropriate treatment " and should be considered when prescribing > medicinals. I ask this question on my standard intake forms. > > Ed Kasper LAc, Santa Cruz, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Many of the clients I seem to attract are those that do a lot of self prescribing covering a wide range of alternatives. Some common encounters are those that do Hot Tub, Sauna, Sweat Lodge and more common Colon Cleanses or Fasting. I also get the athletic types that are in competition (often with themselves) that symptoms manifest only after the athelics short term goal have been realized and they go into a now I can relax stage. I think us alternative types have to take into consideration what other forms of healing are our clients doing similar to what M.D.s have to (should) consider that their clients are also seeing other M.D 's but are not telling them about. Ed Kasper LAc, Santa Cruz, CA Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:56: Rosenberg " <zrosenbe Re: RE: sitting in hot water Very good point. Inappropriate sweating can cause a transmuted pattern ( a worsening, more complex disease). However, sometimes we can prescribe appropriate sweating in certain conditions and circumstances. On Sep 29, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Ed Kasper LAc wrote: > I think Hot tubs as well as other activity that produces a sweat > (raises > body temperatures) fall under the Shan hung lun description of > " inappropriate treatment " and should be considered when prescribing > medicinals. I ask this question on my standard intake forms. > > Ed Kasper LAc, Santa Cruz, CA -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.271 / Virus Database: 264.9.8 - Release 9/28/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 > An interesting phenomena that I have noted is that when folks (mostly Indigenous Peoples) among my patients go to a real Inipi (Sweat Lodge) with a traditional Inipi leader they seem to suffer none of the negative effects BUT when folks go to new age/ shaman type Swetas they come back with all of the results one would expect from overheating the system. The stranger thing is that a traditional Lakota Inipi is often much hotter and of longer duration. > > Makes one think...... > > Doc > > Ed Kasper LAc wrote: > Many of the clients I seem to attract are those that do a lot of self > prescribing covering a wide range of alternatives. Some common encounters > are those that do Hot Tub, Sauna, Sweat Lodge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 In a message dated 10/1/2004 12:40:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, attiliodalberto writes: I find that I suffer from the heat if its a sulphur natural spring more so than another natural heating method. Interesting,,,,,, I find high sulfur foods bother me. IT doesn't feel like a food allergy as much as they augment my Yin deficiency. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Thank you Attilio, Z'ev, Ed, and Doc for your comments. They've given me something to ponder for a while. I have an autosomal dominal disorder that leaves me with practically no subcutanious adipose tissue over most of my body. Simply put, I have no physical insulation. How anyone should react to sitting in hot water will always be a vicarious experience for me. I'll just have to have faith in theories. For the record, that legal limit of heat I'd mentioned that spas/hot tubs can be marketed at 104 degrees farenheit is 40 centigrade. The temperature Attilio suggested in his quote was 37-38 centigrade. 38 is approximately 100 degrees. Shared Doc; > An interesting phenomena that I have > noted is that when folks (mostly > Indigenous Peoples) among my patients > go to a real Inipi (Sweat Lodge) with > a traditional Inipi leader they seem > to suffer none of the negative effects > BUT when folks go to new age/ shaman > type Swetas they come back with all > of the results one would expect from > overheating the system. The stranger > thing is that a traditional Lakota > Inipi is often much hotter and of longer > duration. This is curious! My next question was based on reading that visits to hot springs is very popular in Japan. The internet would also have us believe that a favorite way to relax in Japan after a long day at work is spending a half hour in a soaking tub with extremely hot water up to the neck. At first I was willing to accept this might be just another abusive coping strategy like junk food diet, smoking, or social drinking. Then I thought, perhaps as I lack insulation there are people who have more of it distributed evenly under their skin and it takes longer for them to feel warmth. Would a practicioner of Asian medicine in Japan expect to see negative effects in a client returning from the hot springs or excessive use of their soaking tub at home? Where there are hot springs in Japan, is there an abundance of local Asian oriented theory medical facilities to help folks monitor the effects of the hot water? I assume China has hot public baths as well. Is there an anticipated syndrome associated with abusive use of those facilities? Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Well I don't know about Japan, but I've had quite a few bathes in natural springs in India and South Korea. I've found that I can only bathe for a short period of time because I have a Yin deficient syndrome which is worsened by the heat. I find that I suffer from the heat if its a sulphur natural spring more so than another natural heating method. I think that moderation is best. Having a natural hot bath everyday is detrimental no matter if its natural or not. Kind regards Attilio D'Alberto <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com hyldemoer [hyldemoer] 01 October 2004 17:22 Chinese Medicine Re: sitting in hot water This is curious! My next question was based on reading that visits to hot springs is very popular in Japan. The internet would also have us believe that a favorite way to relax in Japan after a long day at work is spending a half hour in a soaking tub with extremely hot water up to the neck. At first I was willing to accept this might be just another abusive coping strategy like junk food diet, smoking, or social drinking. Then I thought, perhaps as I lack insulation there are people who have more of it distributed evenly under their skin and it takes longer for them to feel warmth. Would a practicioner of Asian medicine in Japan expect to see negative effects in a client returning from the hot springs or excessive use of their soaking tub at home? Where there are hot springs in Japan, is there an abundance of local Asian oriented theory medical facilities to help folks monitor the effects of the hot water? I assume China has hot public baths as well. Is there an anticipated syndrome associated with abusive use of those facilities? Penel http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 --- Doc <Doc wrote: > (Sweat Lodge) with a traditional Inipi leader they > seem to suffer > none of the negative effects BUT when folks go to > new age/ shaman > type Swetas they come back with all of the results > one would expect > from overheating the system. The stranger thing is > that a > traditional Lakota Inipi is often much hotter and of > longer duration. Not strange: it is exactly the strong heat, length of time and level of discomfort that really gets deep abd cleans the body. These half-assed new age sweat houses are tempered ot be very comfortable and achieve the same hting as comfort foods - nothing except to distract and waste time. :I Hugo > > > > Makes one think...... > > > > Doc > > > > Ed Kasper LAc wrote: > > Many of the clients I seem to attract are those > that do a lot of > self > > prescribing covering a wide range of alternatives. > Some common > encounters > > are those that do Hot Tub, Sauna, Sweat Lodge > > _________ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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