Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 Hi Butch, Thanks for the conversation on this. I really have enjoyed it. Reference Outlook Express. I use it for my business email and IDMA list but use for this list and ATFE. I love reading all the posts but unless I am really curious about something I don't post. I love the taste of Oregano Hydrosol in water. Now that I have had more of my questions answered I am going to check out some of the other Hydrosols that you sell. > > >Marilyn Nicolson and her husband do this > > >regularly .. Butch Owen drinks Oregano > > >Hydrosol weekly .. as does Professor Dr. > > >Husnu Baser and his family (says he) .. and so do many of the people in Turkey. Oregano > > >Hydrosol is available in supermarkets. > > >Its great for stomach problems and is a > > >immune system builder .. among other things. > >So for someone like me who has been ill 90% of their life and whose > >immune system is totally out of wack would benefit from drinking it. >Not being a doctor .. I can't say. But if I had >the same situation and >learned what I know now, I would tell myself the >answer is yes. ;-p >But I would also start eating more properly and >regularly, not smoking, drinking and staying out >till daylight 2-3 times a week .. which I do >now cause I have no problems with my immune >system. ;-) Well I gave up drinking and smoking years ago. My only vice right now is I absolutely love good food and food that is supposedly bad for you too. But my immune system is improving and will continue to improve. > > You say you drink it once a week. Do you believe that drinking it > >once daily for a week is too much? >Yep .. I think its too much and not necessary. >I take a small glass at 20% dilution every other >day and it suits me just fine. Take that from >one of the few persons who sells Oregano >Hydrosol. ;-p Okay, guess we will change it. We are drinking 1 -28 oz bottle of water with 1ml of your Oregano Hydrosol added to it on a daily basis for 1 week and then not adding the hydrosol for 1 week. I like it a lot so will go with every other day. Plus I will still keep drinking my other 6 or 7 28oz bottles of regular water too! It tastes great without the hydrosol in it. ; ) Okay testing will be expensive. If the hydrosol starts clouding what should one do? Or is it even a concern? Does straining it through coffee filters help any at all? I do plan to go to the local university and take another chemistry class. All the sciences have really baffled me at one time or other. I finally figured physics out and I will understand chemistry too. > > >Acceptable range for what .. dermal application? > > >Both Suzanne and Jeanne discuss the pH as being necessary to determine the shelf life of the hydrosol. >Mayhaps .. I doubt the " necessary' part >though. There is a normally expected shelf > life and with proper care and attention one >should not have to worry about hydrosols >becoming contaminated or " turning " . Its >not like we keep them around to draw interest. >I think this is more technical humma-humma than >practical advice. But then, you can't write >a very long book and remain practical - huh? True and that is a good common sense answer too. I will practice and play with them because that is how I learn. Same as how I learned how to use my essential oils. I do not know anything about homeopathy medicine either. There is way down my list of stuff to read about. So, to make a long story shorter, in my opinion, as long as I keep my hydrosols regrigerated or in a very cool room then I am safe using them internally. Reference Martin, I was referring to his article not the journal itself. I will go take a look shortly to read it. His site is always informative. I really enjoyed meeting him in Tucson. His classes were quite enjoyable. Thanks once again for the confirmation of what I was thinking. Cheryl Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 Hey Cheryl, Recommend you consider dumping that Outlook Express and go back to whatever GOOD one you were using before .. I put all the > > marks in conversation below to give the post a generation without the " he said " then " I replied " . ;-p Heck, I thought only Chris used Outlook Express, I didn't know anybody else in the whole wide world did. ;-) > Hi Butch, > > > One thing about long posts with lots of questions .. they generally > > go to the bottom of the stack when folks answer cause they become > > major projects. ;-p But I'm happy to see that you have so many > > questions and also that they are very pertinent questions. > > I was afraid after I wrote it that is what would happen. ; ) Sorta normal .. ;-p Easy ones get quick answers, etc. > > Hawhawhaw ... Many folks think nothing of adding EOs to their food > > ... but that's not really ingesting - is it? ;-p > > Well I ate it... : ) but I also took a tablespoon of Olive Oil with > 2 drops of your O. dubium (Linalool type). Tasted nasty so I bought > some honey and took it once a day too. You done good. ;-) I did read a post once where a person said they would NEVER ingest EOs .. then much later, during a discussion on cooking with EOs, they participated and told how they used them. ;-p > > But I expect that inhalation is more rapid than ingestion .. though > > its not just a matter of getting them into the bloodstream at this > > point .. that is, when we're trying to kick Big Bad Bug Butts. > > That is interesting. I thought ingesting would be quicker than > than inhalation. It is great to learn new things on a daily basis. You might be right .. that's why I said " I expect " .. ;-p But I said that cause I think the path through the olfactory senses to the lungs and the blood stream is probably faster than that of fighting its way out of the stomach acids, etc. I might be wrong on this one. > > Marilyn Nicolson and her husband do this regularly .. Butch Owen > > drinks Oregano Hydrosol weekly .. as does Professor Dr. Husnu Baser > > and his family (says he) .. and so do many of the people in Turkey. > > Oregano Hydrosol is available in supermarkets. Its great for > > stomach problems and is a immune system builder .. among other > > things. > > So for someone like me who has been ill 90% of their life and whose > immune system is totally out of wack would benefit from drinking it. Not being a doctor .. I can't say. But if I had the same situation and learned what I know now, I would tell myself the answer is yes. ;-p But I would also start eating more properly and regularly, not smoking, drinking and staying out till daylight 2-3 times a week .. which I do now cause I have no problems with my immune system. ;-) > You say you drink it once a week. Do you believe that drinking it > once daily for a week is too much? Yep .. I think its too much and not necessary. I take a small glass at 20% dilution every other day and it suits me just fine. Take that from one of the few persons who sells Oregano Hydrosol. ;-p > Not asking for recommendation because neither of us are licensed > to practice medicine but your opinion is highly regarded. Thankee m'am. :-P > > Since its the only book out on Hydrosols its the one folks use .. > > but I am sure she will make many corrections if/when she reprints > > it. There's a need for that. Suzanne Catty's book is not perfect > > - like every other book in print, it has problems and we gotta be > > careful not try to create doctrine based on a book. Just in the > > first few pages we find ... > > > > I didn't get past page 15 yet, and I'm not one to get down on folks > > who write books because its a very difficult undertaking. BUT, the > > errors I speak of add to the ignorance, rumor, misinformation and > > disinformation that is common in this cottage-industry. I don't > > think avoiding comment or challenge is right. When we write a > > book, we are open for criticism. > > A few months ago you commented on the errors and I had ordered the > book but not received it. Your comments as well as knowing how much > extrapolation is in many books on the market were kept in the front > of my mind as I read it. Good show .. I doubt that there is a perfect book around. And I salute her for breaking the ground. Either she or someone else will take off on that initial publication and improve the information. > > What are we testing for? > > Testing the pH to see if it has gone bad. Or at least that was my > understanding from reading this book and all the information sent me > from Jeanne Rose's Aromatic Plant Project. I spend $30 a whack to have mine tested. Ph might not change all that much when you have microbial, fungal or mold contamination. Also, you can often tell the difference by sight and odor. But do not think that when you see settlement in an hydrosol that it is bad .. contrary to the tales of clarity, etc., there is settlement in ALL hydrosols. Sellers strain them before they are sold and if they sit a long time, there will be more settlement of plant matter. But you must start with a sterile container .. new containers are almost always sterile as there's a need for moisture to grow critters. Gotta dump on Chris a little here .. ;-p Years back, first time she bought Rose Hydrosol from me .. she washed out a milk jug and put the Hydrosol in it. Took only a couple of days to build a colony of critters .. milk jugs should be used for milk and then used to cover mater plants if you are afraid of a frost .. or trashed .. that's all. Milk has more critters in it than almost anything around. ;-p > > When Martin Watt visited me here in Turkey, I took him to the lab > > of my Rose Otto producer .. they produce Rose Creams, Shampoos and > > such .. and we had the chemist test the pH on my new Rose Hydrosol. > > We could read the results on his pH meter and neither of us had > > special training. > > Do you recall the name of the meter? No m'am .. just a pH meter. > I would like to research this further as I am trying to understand > chemistry a bit better and those little strips are so little I can > not read them! This was a fairly complicated machine .. probably cost a couple grand. > > Rock Rose or Labdanum (Cistus ladanifer) essential oil is RARE .. > > its produced from distillation of the gum. Concrete and Absolutes > > are the norm for this aromatic. But to say that the existence of > > a Hydrosol means there's an EO is not necessarily a good conclusion > > .. like the folks selling Jasmine hydrosol. ;-) If we wanna find > > Jasmine hydrosol we gotta make it ourselves cause its not > > commercially viable. We can make it ourselves .. and many other > > things .. if we have a table top still .. see > > http://www.AV-AT.com/stovestill2.html > > Yes I can see where my assumption - (nope won't say it here - you > and I both know what the word 'assume' means (grins)), is incorrect. A Big Roger on that one. ;-p > I have looked at your stills many times and maybe in the future I > will buy one just to check out the distillation process on my own. Its a fun thing .. almost like getting ones first microscope or chemistry set. ;-p > That would be extremely expensive though so maybe I should just > make a trip to visit you and the rose fields some year during > distillation. Welcome you are and you'll not regret it. Turkey is a well-kept secret. Those who come once always come back if they can .. and seeing, smelling and experiencing the Rose Fields and distillation is a thrill for sure. > > > Is so would someone be kind enough to direct me to a source > > > (off-list of course)? > > > I'd like for them to do it on-list. Might be interesting. ;-p > > It would be very interesting and that is what I would like to have > happen. I mixed up my lists. It is on ATFE that requests names of > suppliers be kept off the list. Good .. y'all know where we can get Rock Rose Hydrosol please tell. ;-p > > Acceptable range for what .. dermal application? > > Both Suzanne and Jeanne discuss the pH as being necessary to > determine the shelf life of the hydrosol. Mayhaps .. I doubt the " necessary' part though. Yhere is a normally expected shelf life and with proper care and attention one should not have to worry about hydrosols becoming contaminated or " turning " . Its not like we keep them around to draw interest. I think this is more technical humma-humma than practical advice. But then, you can't write a very long book and remain practical - huh? > On page 141 Suzanne states: Hydrosols, unlike most essential oils, > have a finite shelf life. I disagree. Big time disagree. They have a general shelf life that can be shortened or lengthened by proper or improper care .. like people. > Although it is true that some oils, notable the conifer and expressed > citrus oils, do have a shelf life of around two years, most oils will, > if stored correctly, last indefinitely. .... Disagree here too .. conifers are longer than two years and without a perfect storage and good luck, expressed citrus won't last two years .. and the word indefinitely on the others I strongly disagree with. I have posted the generally expected shelf lives of properly cared for EO on this list before .. I know of no oils we can say have an indefinite shelf life .. though there are some that get better with age and even better with scores of years. But these are exceptions to the rule. > However, hydrosols are a different kettle of fish, and we must > develop a new way of thinking to fully understand their needs. They are different because they are mostly water and ideal growing mediums for critters. Treat them like you would your EOs .. but keep them chilled .. that is the major difference .. so she's rally correct. I spend a few thousands of bucks annually on them so I must understand their needs .. didn't I would be out a whole buncha bucks. ;-p > Establishing and monitoring the shelf life of hydrosols has, until > now, been largely a matter of experience combined with guesswork. In my case, its a matter of proper storage and paying to have them tested every 90 days. But then, I'm just being practical. ;-p > The result has been that if a distill or seller of hydrosols actually > gives them a best-before date, it seems to be regardless of bottling > standards, storage conditions, or plant-material source. Probably true .. but I object to Best-Used-Before Dates. All we need to know is the Production Date. And that's why I have never offered any Hydrosols except those we produced here and those produced by Dennis Archer in Oz .. I didn't trust other folks to know or tell the truth. But I have two new ones coming on line now, both Certifed Organic US Origin .. a Lavender (Lavandula angustifola) and a Yarrow (Achillea millefolium) .. that I do know the production date for so I trust'em. > Some people say one on everything, others say three years on > everything - they can't both be right and they're not. Each hydrosol > is totally unique, just like the oil and plant from which it is > derived. The shelf life of each hydrosol is also unique and is > affected considerably by storage conditions, packaging and a few > chemistry factors. I think the above is a fair position .. elementary but practical. ;-p > My conclusion would be that I will store all hydrosols in the > refrigerator same as most of my eo's. Best it is .. I keep my hydrosols in a cold A/C room in summer and an unheated room (same room) in the winter. > But I would also like to test the results that she has gotten. Why? > Because I like to do things like that and I believe, for me, that > doing so helps me to understand chemistry better. Sounds like an admirable goal. Not sure where you are at on chemistry now but you might wanna take a course at the local university. Its a very interesting field. I'm in no way proficient but I like it. > If someone has a better way for me to determine the shelf life of > hydrosols - please tell me. I am very curious. Test them periodically .. and pay attention to the variables. Treat some nice and some badly and play around till you get the answer. One must accept that to do all these things Suzzane and Jeanne say, you must start with a near-to-perfect product .. that will be the most difficult thing to do because few folks have such products. I know mine are near perfect but I have a limited range .. to learn what you want to know, you will have to gamble with other hydrosols that are unknown quality. This won't harm your goal of gaining personal knowledge but it will invalidate the tests from a psydo-scientific point of view because we must start with identical, known subjects to conduct such testing. > Your confirmation of sensitization with hydrosols is appreciated. > Anyone out there that has become sensitized since using hydrosols? Good question .. but I think we won't find many because of the lack of frequent use and the great dilution factor of hydrosols. These two factors are the primary concerns .. they and just plain bad luck. > > > Drug Interactions: Page 185 > > > I don't understand how or why ??? Prescription or OTC drugs will > > almost always be cloned or isolated component mixtures whereas the > > EO will be as close to a natural synergy as we can get through > > distillation .. which of course, is not a natural state of affairs > > in the first place. But the important thing is that through a > > process of natural selection and evolution - or survival of the > > fittest .. the natural product will contain counterbalances to its > > own negative sides. Not true for the synthetic. Also, man has > > evolved along with plants and the DNA of man most closely resembles > > that of plants. So between synthetics and the naturals, which one > > should we think will cause the most side-effects .. or > > contraindications? Easy to answer this one is. > > Yes the answer is easy for the scenario that you have written. But, > if a person is taking a prescription drug to balance their serotonin > levels and they started using essential oils (or hydrosols) that > help with depression, would they not interact? I am not saying that > the interaction would be bad for everyone but still should a person > not find out if they should use a certain eo or hydrosol if they are > taking prescription medicines for a health problem? Good question methinks. And I would think the same question would apply to foods and perfumes and cosmetics .. as I think I wrote you before, it is NOT for aromatherapy that oils are produced .. we are small upstart users .. its for the food, pharmaceutical, perfumery, and flavorings industry that oils are produced and its they who have traditionally determined the standards. In a given day, we all consume far more EOs than we would ever think about in aromatherapy. I salute your dedication here .. and your quest for knowledge. Anyone with an inquiring mind is tops in my book. Your goal is an admirable but a tough one. I recommend you write Martin Watt off line and get his opinion on this. Martin is a pretty smart Limey .. boy has a lotta years of research under his belt. Can't drink much Turkish Efes Beer but the boy is OK in my book. ;-9 > In many of the herbal books I read and comments I have heard on > many of the lists is that with homeopath medicines - a person must > inform of the prescription medicines so that they do not have > problems with the homeopathic remedy. Yep .. I've read that. But then, homeopathy is a horse of a different color .. and I won't go into my opinions on it here cause I don't want to be crucified. ;-p Not saying it doesn't work either, so don't misunderstand me .. lots of things work ... even VooDoo. > > OK. ;-p I'm glad you took the time to ask these questions. > > Learning comes from inquiry .. and replying to inquiry. I had to > > put my dusty thinking cap on to reply to this. ;-) > > hehehe - good glad I was able to help.... Then we're all grinnin' like Cheshire Cats. :-) > > Welcome you are .. and I wish I had more to add. I can refer you > > to an article written by Martin Watt .. it was published in the > > last edition of the IFA journal. > > I am not a r to the IFA Journal. Few folks are. ;-) > I will send Martin an email asking about a copy. Maybe he will > post on his website. A copy of the article or the Journal? The article is on the website. The journal he probably can't psot. But please ask anyway. > Thank you for the time you took to answer this. > I highly appreciate it. My pleasure twas. > Cheryl Smith > Anchorage AK Y'all keep smiling, Butch http://www.AV-AT.com PS: Yours is one of the best inquiry posts I've seen in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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