** My Heart on the Line** Hey Leela

[Guest guest]

you said: " I cannot sit quietly while a trumped-up war is waged to defend

the

> honor of someone's daddy "

 

Now I see it totally different, I see it as a stud war. Baby Boy wants to

get Hussein to prove to daddy that baby boy's penis is bigger than daddy's.

 

That's MY opinion and I stand by it. I know all the excuses and reasons that

have been presented and so far I have found/heard/learned nothing that would

make ME support this war of 'Baby Boy'. But what do you expect from a

bleeding heart liberal.

 

And to tell you the truth, I'm more concerned about the " Homeland Security "

Trash and the policies they are making all in the name " Protection " . 'Baby

Boy' and his cohorts are working on taking away more and more of our civil

liberties.

 

Having said that: I have no reason to get upset or worried. After all I'm

white. Any other color and I would have reason to be concerned.

 

ACK! Politics. Every time I decide not to play, I let myself get sucked in

anyway! >sigh< Bad Woobey Queen! BAD BAD!!!

 

Cheers!

Kathleen Petrides

The Woobey Queen

Woobey Tip:

http://www.woobeyworld.com

 

 

 

-

" Butch Owen " <butchbsi

 

Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:22 PM

OT: Iraq ** My Heart on the Line

 

 

> Hey Leela,

>

> > Hey Butch,

> > Hope all is well for you over in Turkey.

>

> Thankee m'am .. its fine now. The Turks are playing some games .. the

> politicos are trying to kiss Arab butt and set themselves up as a leader

> in the region .. and the military is concerned about not allowing the

> USA to establish a Northern Front in Iraq from Turkey because they fear

> US control of the area .. they want to maintain a buffer zone there as

> they are a bit paranoid about the establishment of a Kurdistan.

>

> > I normally don't comment too much, but I have to put my 2 cents in here.

>

> Go for it .. and I couldn't resist replying. ;-p

>

> > As an American who also lived through the time of Viet Nam, and

actively,

> > noisily, civil-disobedience(ly) protested against that war, I can say

this:

> > To all who served in that war, or any other to defend or protect our

> > nation - Thank You. Even though I hated the war, I didn't hate the

> > soldier. Even though our reasons for being in VN were confused and

muddled,

> > the soldiers who served there were always the bastions of freedom.

>

> Thankee m'am .. though there are some who are still confused over

> exactly what the hell they were protesting.

>

> > They served their country without question, and it brings me to tears

> > of gratitude.

>

> Good to hear that.

>

> > However, the honor and dignity of those soldiers, however brightly it

shown,

> > does not diminish the indignity and shame of the choices their

government

> > made, and, employed them to fulfill. The soldier is *not* the

government.

> > He only serves that government in the best and only way he can.

>

> In truth, the political administration turned a noble cause into a

> political ballgame .. it was not a dishonorable venture from the first.

> My first tour in the 'Nam was in 1963 and I have seen pregnant women's

> bellies ripped open because they were teachers .. part of the government

> they were. And village chiefs staked out with eyelids ripped off so

> they couldn't close their eyes while watching their wife and female

> children being raped by a platoon of VC .. before throats were cut. So

> it was not always a political game. I was young an impressionable and

> it flat pissed me off. Enough for me to volunteer for multiple tours.

>

> > It is the government that was the target of the protest then, and

> > again, is now. As Americans, we have to ask ourselves hard questions,

> > stripped of the patriotic fervor of hearth and home. We have to force

> > ourselves to see the world with a clear eye, unclouded by familial

> > pasts.

>

> I think I can look at the present situation without emotion .. without

> any shred of patriotism. Its a matter of logical necessity to me.

>

> > It is said that " reality is relative " , and what I see may not be a

> > shared reality with you. What I see, again, as in the late 60's, our

> > finest minds embodied in our young people, being shipped off to a

> > foreign war that no one can understand.

>

> We rarely send old men with weak minds to war .. and I disagree with you

> on folks not understanding the reason. Recent polls show a great amount

> of support for the war .. those opposed are in the minority.

>

> > Yesterday, our enemy was Osama bin Laden. That sob killed 3000 in

> > NYC, but suddenly, he is not the target anymore; it is Hussein.

>

> Not so methinks. Osama Yo Mama is still a target .. but he is also a

> representational figurehead of a system of international Islamic

> terrorism that is recognized as being an enemy of the west and the east.

>

> Osama is not a governmental leader .. though he has an international

> network that exists because of the support of governments. Saddam is a

> much easier target and we accomplish more than one mission by taking him

> out of power. Technically, governments can only declare war on other

> governments. There are many international laws in this regard.

>

> > We let bin Laden slip away by following a cell phone transmission

> > that the CIA had to have known was not in bin Laden's hand. Why?

>

> I don't see where that has a bearing on the issue of Iraq. But I think

> the reason is because we are not perfect. Mistakes are made with the

> best laid plans .. Monday morning quarterbacks always find them too.

>

> >Saddam Hussein has shamefully murdered his own people, the Kurds. But

> >so have many other countries that the United States has not gone after.

>

> True .. but its a matter of relativity .. which ones are dangerous to US

> now .. not to their own people. We cannot take on all the evil in the

> world at one time .. the US is capable of fighting but 2.5 wars on 2.5

> fronts at one time.

>

> > Korea and Pakistan (where bin Laden is being harbored) have nuclear

> > war capabilities, as probably does Libya, but we haven't gone to war

> > with them.

>

> North Korea will/must change .. and they can be handled by Russia/China

> for the time being. Pakistan will have their day in the barrel but we

> must take on the enemies in some order of priority .. and we do have a

> supporter in Pakistan .. even though he is not in total control. That

> country is just another haven for bad guys ... but look at what they

> found in the mosque in London. Libya is a castrated non-player now. We

> have far more to fear from Saudi Arabia.

>

> >It would seem to me, and many others, that Pakistan would be a much

> > more likely target for our anger than Iraq.

>

> Immediate threat is the difference .. Clear and Present Danger is the

> technical term approved by the Senate Intelligence Committee. And by

> the way, both parties who sit on that committee understand the reasons

> why Iraq is a danger NOW.

>

> > Pakistan is giving shelter to the man who nearly toppled the world,

>

> What happened in New York and D.C. came a long way from toppling the

> world .. but it was a wake up call. I will GAR-AN-TEE that it is not

> impossible for a well-led, well planned and well-financed fundamentalist

> organization to make 9-11 look like a friggin picnic !!

>

> > but we concentrate on a nation that has done nothing in the last 12

> > years to incur even our attention?

>

> Nobody is concentrating on a nation .. it is a regime that is getting

> the attention. And to say they have done nothing for the past 12 years

> is a mistake .. a big mistake. But its unlikely that all the intel that

> is available to the intel community will be made public for a long time

> due to the likelihood of compromising sources and getting throats cut.

>

> > Something is wrong with that picture.

>

> Right .. but if you look at it differently, you will see a different

> picture .. maybe. ;-p

>

> > Our President openly admitted that this was a family affair.

>

> That might be a little extreme .. and a bit of twisted propaganda. I

> don't trust any politician .. Rumsfeld is cool but he will go along with

> the flow .. Powell is not a right winger nor is he a blind supporter of

> Bush. Powell has moved closer to a hawkish status than I supposed he

> would and I have the utmost confidence that he's justified in doing so.

>

> > It is opinion that he is using the military of the United States to

> > exact revenge for a past familial defeat. It is my opinion that he is

> > using this conflict to also divert our national attention away from

> > our dire domestic problems.

>

> IF this is true .. and I don't believe it is .. not at all .. then the

> USA is lost because we have two political parties and a cabinet and lots

> of what I KNOW are honorable and ethical professional military leaders

> who are idiots .. smoking wacky tobakie and sticking their heads in

> their butts while blindly following a madman. So all is lost.

>

> > Our national pride, our youth, is being used as nothing more than

> > " hit-men " to avenge the past.

>

> I think this sounds very partisan .. and very emotional. :-P

>

> > I cannot now, as I could not then, quietly abide this government

> > sending out sons and daughters to fight and die so that I and my

> > neighbors won't think of all the problems we have here at home.

>

> Who could tolerate that? Certainly not ALL the members of Congress and

> the military system.

>

> > I cannot sit quietly while a trumped-up war is waged to defend the

> > honor of someone's daddy.

>

> I couldn't either. And glad we are not asked to. But this is not, in

> my opinion, a trumped-up war. If one believes that war is only advised

> when one's territorial integrity is breached .. or its citizens are put

> in harm's way .. then even they have to admit that we have justification

> to take action. Also glad I am that we can pee and moan cause if we

> lived in Iraq we would .. as a minimum .. lose our eyes and tongue.

>

> > Our sons and daughters deserve better than that. And so do we.

>

> Sure they do .. and we do too .. and I'm glad we are not being asked or

> expected to be stupid enough to tolerate such a situation.

>

> > Leela

>

> Y'all keep smiling, Butch

>

> How To Make Rose Petal Jam - Step By Step Instructions

> http://www.av-at.com/stuff/rosejam.html

>

> To Un send a blank e-mail to:

-

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yep Kathleen, I used to work for a guy in the " oil biz " . He was sort of a

stud in that industry, and one of his favorite sayings was: " The winner is

the guy who swings the biggest dick. "

 

Sorry for the language, but that *is* what he used to say.

 

 

-

" Kathleen Petrides " <WoobeyQueen

 

Wednesday, January 22, 2003 3:31 PM

** My Heart on the Line** Hey Leela

 

 

> you said: " I cannot sit quietly while a trumped-up war is waged to defend

> the

> > honor of someone's daddy "

>

> Now I see it totally different, I see it as a stud war. Baby Boy wants to

> get Hussein to prove to daddy that baby boy's penis is bigger than

daddy's.

>

> That's MY opinion and I stand by it. I know all the excuses and reasons

that

> have been presented and so far I have found/heard/learned nothing that

would

> make ME support this war of 'Baby Boy'. But what do you expect from a

> bleeding heart liberal.

>

> And to tell you the truth, I'm more concerned about the " Homeland

Security "

> Trash and the policies they are making all in the name " Protection " . 'Baby

> Boy' and his cohorts are working on taking away more and more of our civil

> liberties.

>

> Having said that: I have no reason to get upset or worried. After all I'm

> white. Any other color and I would have reason to be concerned.

>

> ACK! Politics. Every time I decide not to play, I let myself get sucked in

> anyway! >sigh< Bad Woobey Queen! BAD BAD!!!

>

> Cheers!

> Kathleen Petrides

> The Woobey Queen

> Woobey Tip:

> http://www.woobeyworld.com

>

>

>

> -

> " Butch Owen " <butchbsi

>

> Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:22 PM

> OT: Iraq ** My Heart on the Line

>

>

> > Hey Leela,

> >

> > > Hey Butch,

> > > Hope all is well for you over in Turkey.

> >

> > Thankee m'am .. its fine now. The Turks are playing some games .. the

> > politicos are trying to kiss Arab butt and set themselves up as a leader

> > in the region .. and the military is concerned about not allowing the

> > USA to establish a Northern Front in Iraq from Turkey because they fear

> > US control of the area .. they want to maintain a buffer zone there as

> > they are a bit paranoid about the establishment of a Kurdistan.

> >

> > > I normally don't comment too much, but I have to put my 2 cents in

here.

> >

> > Go for it .. and I couldn't resist replying. ;-p

> >

> > > As an American who also lived through the time of Viet Nam, and

> actively,

> > > noisily, civil-disobedience(ly) protested against that war, I can say

> this:

> > > To all who served in that war, or any other to defend or protect our

> > > nation - Thank You. Even though I hated the war, I didn't hate the

> > > soldier. Even though our reasons for being in VN were confused and

> muddled,

> > > the soldiers who served there were always the bastions of freedom.

> >

> > Thankee m'am .. though there are some who are still confused over

> > exactly what the hell they were protesting.

> >

> > > They served their country without question, and it brings me to tears

> > > of gratitude.

> >

> > Good to hear that.

> >

> > > However, the honor and dignity of those soldiers, however brightly it

> shown,

> > > does not diminish the indignity and shame of the choices their

> government

> > > made, and, employed them to fulfill. The soldier is *not* the

> government.

> > > He only serves that government in the best and only way he can.

> >

> > In truth, the political administration turned a noble cause into a

> > political ballgame .. it was not a dishonorable venture from the first.

> > My first tour in the 'Nam was in 1963 and I have seen pregnant women's

> > bellies ripped open because they were teachers .. part of the government

> > they were. And village chiefs staked out with eyelids ripped off so

> > they couldn't close their eyes while watching their wife and female

> > children being raped by a platoon of VC .. before throats were cut. So

> > it was not always a political game. I was young an impressionable and

> > it flat pissed me off. Enough for me to volunteer for multiple tours.

> >

> > > It is the government that was the target of the protest then, and

> > > again, is now. As Americans, we have to ask ourselves hard questions,

> > > stripped of the patriotic fervor of hearth and home. We have to force

> > > ourselves to see the world with a clear eye, unclouded by familial

> > > pasts.

> >

> > I think I can look at the present situation without emotion .. without

> > any shred of patriotism. Its a matter of logical necessity to me.

> >

> > > It is said that " reality is relative " , and what I see may not be a

> > > shared reality with you. What I see, again, as in the late 60's, our

> > > finest minds embodied in our young people, being shipped off to a

> > > foreign war that no one can understand.

> >

> > We rarely send old men with weak minds to war .. and I disagree with you

> > on folks not understanding the reason. Recent polls show a great amount

> > of support for the war .. those opposed are in the minority.

> >

> > > Yesterday, our enemy was Osama bin Laden. That sob killed 3000 in

> > > NYC, but suddenly, he is not the target anymore; it is Hussein.

> >

> > Not so methinks. Osama Yo Mama is still a target .. but he is also a

> > representational figurehead of a system of international Islamic

> > terrorism that is recognized as being an enemy of the west and the east.

> >

> > Osama is not a governmental leader .. though he has an international

> > network that exists because of the support of governments. Saddam is a

> > much easier target and we accomplish more than one mission by taking him

> > out of power. Technically, governments can only declare war on other

> > governments. There are many international laws in this regard.

> >

> > > We let bin Laden slip away by following a cell phone transmission

> > > that the CIA had to have known was not in bin Laden's hand. Why?

> >

> > I don't see where that has a bearing on the issue of Iraq. But I think

> > the reason is because we are not perfect. Mistakes are made with the

> > best laid plans .. Monday morning quarterbacks always find them too.

> >

> > >Saddam Hussein has shamefully murdered his own people, the Kurds. But

> > >so have many other countries that the United States has not gone after.

> >

> > True .. but its a matter of relativity .. which ones are dangerous to US

> > now .. not to their own people. We cannot take on all the evil in the

> > world at one time .. the US is capable of fighting but 2.5 wars on 2.5

> > fronts at one time.

> >

> > > Korea and Pakistan (where bin Laden is being harbored) have nuclear

> > > war capabilities, as probably does Libya, but we haven't gone to war

> > > with them.

> >

> > North Korea will/must change .. and they can be handled by Russia/China

> > for the time being. Pakistan will have their day in the barrel but we

> > must take on the enemies in some order of priority .. and we do have a

> > supporter in Pakistan .. even though he is not in total control. That

> > country is just another haven for bad guys ... but look at what they

> > found in the mosque in London. Libya is a castrated non-player now. We

> > have far more to fear from Saudi Arabia.

> >

> > >It would seem to me, and many others, that Pakistan would be a much

> > > more likely target for our anger than Iraq.

> >

> > Immediate threat is the difference .. Clear and Present Danger is the

> > technical term approved by the Senate Intelligence Committee. And by

> > the way, both parties who sit on that committee understand the reasons

> > why Iraq is a danger NOW.

> >

> > > Pakistan is giving shelter to the man who nearly toppled the world,

> >

> > What happened in New York and D.C. came a long way from toppling the

> > world .. but it was a wake up call. I will GAR-AN-TEE that it is not

> > impossible for a well-led, well planned and well-financed fundamentalist

> > organization to make 9-11 look like a friggin picnic !!

> >

> > > but we concentrate on a nation that has done nothing in the last 12

> > > years to incur even our attention?

> >

> > Nobody is concentrating on a nation .. it is a regime that is getting

> > the attention. And to say they have done nothing for the past 12 years

> > is a mistake .. a big mistake. But its unlikely that all the intel that

> > is available to the intel community will be made public for a long time

> > due to the likelihood of compromising sources and getting throats cut.

> >

> > > Something is wrong with that picture.

> >

> > Right .. but if you look at it differently, you will see a different

> > picture .. maybe. ;-p

> >

> > > Our President openly admitted that this was a family affair.

> >

> > That might be a little extreme .. and a bit of twisted propaganda. I

> > don't trust any politician .. Rumsfeld is cool but he will go along with

> > the flow .. Powell is not a right winger nor is he a blind supporter of

> > Bush. Powell has moved closer to a hawkish status than I supposed he

> > would and I have the utmost confidence that he's justified in doing so.

> >

> > > It is opinion that he is using the military of the United States to

> > > exact revenge for a past familial defeat. It is my opinion that he is

> > > using this conflict to also divert our national attention away from

> > > our dire domestic problems.

> >

> > IF this is true .. and I don't believe it is .. not at all .. then the

> > USA is lost because we have two political parties and a cabinet and lots

> > of what I KNOW are honorable and ethical professional military leaders

> > who are idiots .. smoking wacky tobakie and sticking their heads in

> > their butts while blindly following a madman. So all is lost.

> >

> > > Our national pride, our youth, is being used as nothing more than

> > > " hit-men " to avenge the past.

> >

> > I think this sounds very partisan .. and very emotional. :-P

> >

> > > I cannot now, as I could not then, quietly abide this government

> > > sending out sons and daughters to fight and die so that I and my

> > > neighbors won't think of all the problems we have here at home.

> >

> > Who could tolerate that? Certainly not ALL the members of Congress and

> > the military system.

> >

> > > I cannot sit quietly while a trumped-up war is waged to defend the

> > > honor of someone's daddy.

> >

> > I couldn't either. And glad we are not asked to. But this is not, in

> > my opinion, a trumped-up war. If one believes that war is only advised

> > when one's territorial integrity is breached .. or its citizens are put

> > in harm's way .. then even they have to admit that we have justification

> > to take action. Also glad I am that we can pee and moan cause if we

> > lived in Iraq we would .. as a minimum .. lose our eyes and tongue.

> >

> > > Our sons and daughters deserve better than that. And so do we.

> >

> > Sure they do .. and we do too .. and I'm glad we are not being asked or

> > expected to be stupid enough to tolerate such a situation.

> >

> > > Leela

> >

> > Y'all keep smiling, Butch

> >

> > How To Make Rose Petal Jam - Step By Step Instructions

> > http://www.av-at.com/stuff/rosejam.html

> >

> > To Un send a blank e-mail to:

> -

> >

> >

> >

> >