OT: Use of Military Forces

[Guest guest]

Hey Butch~

Yo Janet,

> Morning Colonel Sir~

> There is a great deal of discussion about using military to

secure

> our borders. If this has been discussed previously just point

me

> to the achieves and I will not bore other folks.

Far as I know it has not been discussed on this or other

lists.

Yes I am in favor of National Guard being used not only on the Mexican

Border but on the

Canadian border. Or and I know this will not go over well, let

Mexico vote on where or not

they wish to be come a state. (Ok I am ducking here, I know that is not a

popular position.)

But then even tho I have a former Foster child who after servicing in the

Marine Corp

became an INS agent in L.A. I am for totally reforming that messed up

agency.

(Last time he came to town, I took him to the best Mexican restaurant in

town and informed him

he was " off duty " !)

> This anti-war rally was

attended by less than 50 people.

> Our full time student enrollment is 40,000+

> This rally was advertised for 2 weeks.

I like that .. and would guess there were 5-6 radical leaders and

44-45

lost souls who need to be led attending it.

That was my impression and I am told altho was not able to confirm that

those who

sponsored the rally were from out of state.

Sorry I did forget to share the answers didn't I oops! I asked 400 full

time students

to participate. One of the Psych profs was ill and the class was to be

canceled.

I gave them the option of an open discussion and a request to complete a

2 page questionnaire

or being excused. 257 students stayed most that chose to leave were

young women.

> When I spoke with some of

the students this past week posing

> questions like:

>

> Should we have military on our borders?

Most felt full military should be assigned border patrol, when I

countered with

National Guard most felt comfortable with that alternative. NONE wanted

to

see a civilian patrol because they felt there was too much lea way for

corruption.

When I ask what type of corruption concerned them most ie drugs,

terrorist,

illegals in search of a better life. One young man said the war on drugs

was

a waste of time and money as most " pot " was now being grown on

US government

lands by various cartel groups. (His father just retired from the UN, he

had been

a rep from a S.A. country.)

Most felt heroin was coming in thru Canada to Detroit and then going in

various

directs from there.

Most felt $$ would be paid to civilian to look the other way and when I

asked why,

many of the guys feel local militia groups would be applying for these

border jobs

if civilian organizations where used. Many felt the border patrols where

ineffective.

Local militia groups are once again being more visible, same story

different day.

Less than 1/2 were concerned about the wet foot/dry foot policy off of

the Flordia

coast but more than 1/2 felt the INS needed to seriously be

revamped.

I did not ask how many of these student were here on student visa's or

how many

were not US citizens.

> Under what circumstances would you be in support of us

going

> to war?

Over whelmingly, these young men and women where in favor of taking

Saddam out now.

1/3 felt we would declare a war before Christmas the other 2/3 felt it

would

happen at various times next year.

Several students said this situation is not at all like the Viet Nam

war.

Several felt we were already at war with Iraq and that the nation

would

be told after some major event.

Several voiced the news media was orchestrated by big business and there

for

we would never truly know what had, would, or was happening currently in

that

region.

 

> Would you be willing to

put your education on hold to serve

> in the military?

Not one woman was willing to do that, but 85% of the young men said

yes.

When I asked why, the most common answer was, I would rather die for the

right

to get an education than to sit here and die from some bomb or gas

thinking I deserved an education.

> Do you know where the

recruiting offices for the Army, Air

> Force, Marines, and Navy are located in this

city?

2 people did not know where any of these offices were, all of 230 know

the correct

location of all the offices, the balance at least had the correct

location of 1.

> My " poll " doc

would say was not scientific enough to qualify

> as usable statistic material but the answers amazed me.

> Ok as usual I got long winded, sorry.

Not really .. you didn't tell enough methinks.

;-p

We do have a large Islamic student population here. Sometime ago I

mentioned

after 9-11 I no longer saw Islamic women with their children out

shopping, or

at the parks, etc. Now I do see them but always in the company of a

brother,

husband or other male if their children are with them. I do see

females

attending class or walking on campus unescorted.

> My nephew the Captain is

now married to my new niece also an

> Army Captain, they are currently stationed 7 miles from the

> North Korea border.

Never has been any questions about US military on the Korean DMZ ..

or

at Check Point Charlie twixt the Germanies for a whole

generation.

Doesn't look like this will change any time soon.

I assume the question is about

US Armed Forces guarding our borders. If

that's the question .. the answer is that State Militia (National

Guard)

have long been used for such enforcement when called up by the State

Governor .. or activated by the Federal Government. If there is a

need

for using troops to guard our borders we can expect this to occur

again.

http://www.tancredo.org/extra/hdp.htm

This is a petition I saw yesterday, those of you from Colorado would know

far more

about this man than I do.

 

As for border security, those of you who live in TaxUs (I used to)

know

that the Border Patrol Agents average 9 miles of border per agent

and

that is an impossible task even considering the sensors that are

spread

all along the border. If the Mexican border is deemed to be a weak

link

in America's security posture then there is no need for discussion ..

it

will be guarded.

As for taking out Saddam .. well .. we screwed around a long time

afore

we decided to take out Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor .. and it

cost

a helluva lotta lives. Just today the Washington Post reported

that

Saddam had provided Weapons of Mass Destruction (unidentified

chemicals)

to al Qaeda .. and that they transited Turkey. CNN's Paula Azan

has

devoted a lot of TV time to this as a NewsAlert. Bush

Administration

is backing away, saying " no conclusive evidence exists " .

Those of you

who understand how intelligence events are laid out know this means

we

aren't going to confirm or deny because it would blow a contact.

There

is NO DOUBT in my mind that ALL the intelligence agencies in the

western

world have CONCLUSIVE evidence that he Saddam supports Palestinian

and

al Qaeda terrorists .. no doubt at all.

A majority of the students felt we had concrete proof but were not

tipping our hand.

 

Saddam must go and he will

go. My only regret is the innocents .. and I

include young soldiers of both sides in that category. At the

same

time, I believe it is technically feasible for the US to overthrow

him

with fewer losses than are experienced on the average American

weekend

due to traffic accidentgs.

Or with fewer deaths than he has caused his own country men, women and

children.

The modern world has worked to

eliminate dangerous dictators for over 3

generations now .. over 4 if we include the Barbary Pirates. Saddam

is

terrorizing his people.. not since Vlad the Impaler have citizens

feared

their own government as they do in Iraq. I speak and drink with

Iraqis

often and get first hand tales of conditions there.

People ask why the US can't knock him out personally and avoid a

larger

conflict. I believe there have been MANY attempts to do this ..

and

loss of lives, to include families when those attempts

failed.

An example of this seems to have occurred in the past 30 days.

Some of

the attempts were probably western sponsored but others were

probably

Iraqi dissidents. Its not just the CIA that has been after him ..

the

Brits and Israelis have too and both have pretty good intel

apparatus.

People talk about the isolated, barren terrain in Iraq. I have

driven

that road from Acaba to the Baghdad border twice .. once alone and

once

in the middle of a Russian convoy that was bringing military

equipment

from the Acaba Port to Iraq back when they were fighting Iran. You

can

go ten minutes at a time without seeing another vehicle .. but

still,

that is a far call from getting within a kilometer of Saddam

himself.

Saddam is much like Hitler and Idi Amin .. he is truly a madman and

a

ticking time bomb. I believe he has nuclear capabilities on a

small

scale now .. lacks proper delivery systems but all the dangers are

not

from ground to air to ground .. and I believe he would not hestitate

to

use that capability or any other weapon of mass destruction if he

felt

the urge. Will he use it when we attack Iraq?

Maybe.

Or maybe before Iraq is attacked.

But that CANNOT

deter the world from forcing him to disarm and forcing him out of

power.

State sponsored blackmail has not been acceptable in the last 200

years.

I have strong personal feelings about barbaric dictators and

terrorists.

And about Islamic extremists. I have been targeted once for sure

and

probably twice .. lucky both times. The latest event .. the

probable

event .. was Thanksgiving Day .. this year. I've carried a 9MM in

my

coat pocket for months now. Its legal .. I have a permit to carry

it

issued by the Turkish police.

So my response to those

who would want to

protest American military involvement in Iraq is protest all you want.

 

But don't get in my way!

Y'all keep smiling, :-D Butch

As usual, I appreciate you view!

I know you will stay alert!

Janet

[Guest guest]

Yo Janet,

 

> Morning Colonel Sir~

 

Just Butch now, ;-p

 

> Ok I will try to behave, I do have a question for you.

 

You're always well-behaved .. sometimes ask tough questions. ;-9

 

> You can be sure I do have an opinion on this one.

 

Never was any doubt in my mind.

 

> There is a great deal of discussion about using military to secure

> our borders. If this has been discussed previously just point me

> to the achieves and I will not bore other folks.

 

Far as I know it has not been discussed on this or other lists.

 

> Just one other quick note, last week an anti-war rally was held on

> library mall at UW in Madison. Many of you that are 50+ may remember

> the film footage shot at a similar event here during the 60's.

> There were also a number of buildings bombed here during that time

> by protesters. (Dow was sponsoring a lot of research, and hiring

> a lot of engineers from here at the time.)

 

I used to be Director of the Military-Civil Operations and Political

Science Department at John F. Kennedy School of International Studies,

Fort Bragg, NC. One of the courses presented I chose to teach myself ..

twas concerning the Media as a Tool of Propaganda but it rolled over

into radicals using otherwise peaceful protests to do their business ..

America has a long history of that as back in the 1770s Sam Adams used

peaceful marches in Boston to incite riots against the Lobsterbacks.

Anyway .. bombing buildings seems like a good way to protest war. ;-p

 

> Butch would be far more able to explain Agent Orange and other

> chemical research that was being done at that time.

 

Yea .. but that's history now. I stomped through a bit of it myself, as

did tens of thousands of other folks. The VA now has it on the hot list

of things to check when anybody walks in the door .. they check well.

 

> This anti-war rally was attended by less than 50 people.

> Our full time student enrollment is 40,000+

> This rally was advertised for 2 weeks.

 

I like that .. and would guess there were 5-6 radical leaders and 44-45

lost souls who need to be led attending it.

 

> When I spoke with some of the students this past week posing

> questions like:

>

> Should we have military on our borders?

>

> Under what circumstances would you be in support of us going

> to war?

>

> Would you be willing to put your education on hold to serve

> in the military?

>

> Do you know where the recruiting offices for the Army, Air

> Force, Marines, and Navy are located in this city?

>

> My " poll " doc would says was not scientific enough to qualify

> as usable statistic material but the answers amazed me.

 

So .. what were the answers???

 

> Ok as usual I got long winded, sorry.

 

Not really .. you didn't tell enough methinks. ;-p

 

> My nephew the Captain is now married to my new niece also an

> Army Captain, they are currently stationed 7 miles from the

> North Korea border.

 

Never has been any questions about US military on the Korean DMZ .. or

at Check Point Charlie twixt the Germanies for a whole generation.

 

> And yes Butch, this old Carmelite Nun from a previous life lights

> candles for all of them. ;-)

 

Good for you. :-P

 

I assume the question is about US Armed Forces guarding our borders. If

that's the question .. the answer is that State Militia (National Guard)

have long been used for such enforcement when called up by the State

Governor .. or activated by the Federal Government. If there is a need

for using troops to guard our borders we can expect this to occur

again.

As for border security, those of you who live in TaxUs (I used to) know

that the Border Patrol Agents average 9 miles of border per agent and

that is an impossible task even considering the sensors that are spread

all along the border. If the Mexican border is deemed to be a weak link

in America's security posture then there is no need for discussion .. it

will be guarded.

 

As for taking out Saddam .. well .. we screwed around a long time afore

we decided to take out Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor .. and it cost

a helluva lotta lives. Just today the Washington Post reported that

Saddam had provided Weapons of Mass Destruction (unidentified chemicals)

to al Qaeda .. and that they transited Turkey. CNN's Paula Azan has

devoted a lot of TV time to this as a NewsAlert. Bush Administration

is backing away, saying " no conclusive evidence exists " . Those of you

who understand how intelligence events are laid out know this means we

aren't going to confirm or deny because it would blow a contact. There

is NO DOUBT in my mind that ALL the intelligence agencies in the western

world have CONCLUSIVE evidence that he Saddam supports Palestinian and

al Qaeda terrorists .. no doubt at all.

 

Saddam must go and he will go. My only regret is the innocents .. and I

include young soldiers of both sides in that category. At the same

time, I believe it is technically feasible for the US to overthrow him

with fewer losses than are experienced on the average American weekend

due to traffic accidentgs.

 

The modern world has worked to eliminate dangerous dictators for over 3

generations now .. over 4 if we include the Barbary Pirates. Saddam is

terrorizing his people.. not since Vlad the Impaler have citizens feared

their own government as they do in Iraq. I speak and drink with Iraqis

often and get first hand tales of conditions there.

 

People ask why the US can't knock him out personally and avoid a larger

conflict. I believe there have been MANY attempts to do this .. and

loss of lives, to include families when those attempts failed. Some of

the attempts were probably western sponsored but others were probably

Iraqi dissidents. Its not just the CIA that has been after him .. the

Brits and Israelis have too and both have pretty good intel apparatus.

 

People talk about the isolated, barren terrain in Iraq. I have driven

that road from Acaba to the Baghdad border twice .. once alone and once

in the middle of a Russian convoy that was bringing military equipment

from the Acaba Port to Iraq back when they were fighting Iran. You can

go ten minutes at a time without seeing another vehicle .. but still,

that is a far call from getting within a kilometer of Saddam himself.

 

Saddam is much like Hitler and Idi Amin .. he is truly a madman and a

ticking time bomb. I believe he has nuclear capabilities on a small

scale now .. lacks proper delivery systems but all the dangers are not

from ground to air to ground .. and I believe he would not hestitate to

use that capability or any other weapon of mass destruction if he felt

the urge. Will he use it when we attack Iraq? Maybe. But that CANNOT

deter the world from forcing him to disarm and forcing him out of power.

State sponsored blackmail has not been acceptable in the last 200 years.

 

I have strong personal feelings about barbaric dictators and terrorists.

And about Islamic extremists. I have been targeted once for sure and

probably twice .. lucky both times. The latest event .. the probable

event .. was Thanksgiving Day .. this year. I've carried a 9MM in my

coat pocket for months now. Its legal .. I have a permit to carry it

issued by the Turkish police. So my response to those who would want to

protest American military involvement in Iraq is protest all you want.

But don't get in my way!

 

Y'all keep smiling, :-D Butch