Guest guest Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 In a message dated 2/19/06 11:22:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes: > > Thanks MJ > I do take a balanced magnesium/calcium/boron supplement (Lamberts > Osteogaurd) but also have a high calcium diet - love dairy! - so > maybe I am over doing the calcium. Though everything I've looked at > so far states that calcium is usually at *normal levels* in those who > are prone to this condition <but whats *normal* when we look at the > individual aspect? shrugs> > Thanks for input - its quite painful just now - I'm hungry and the > salivary glands are producing!!! > LLx It's the ratio between Ca and Mg..... so a normal level of Ca is pretty meaningless and also Mg blood levels do not tell you what is happening in the cells, which is where the action is... see. www.exatest.com while you are taking extra Mg. You may well need as much Mg as you get Ca from all sources for a while. mjh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 > > Thanks MJ > > I do take a balanced magnesium/calcium/boron supplement (Lamberts > > Osteogaurd) but also have a high calcium diet - love dairy! - so > > maybe I am over doing the calcium. Though everything I've looked at > > so far states that calcium is usually at *normal levels* in those who > > are prone to this condition <but whats *normal* when we look at the > > individual aspect? shrugs> <<snip>> > It's the ratio between Ca and Mg..... so a normal level of Ca is pretty > meaningless and also Mg blood levels do not tell you what is happening in the > cells, which is where the action is... see. www.exatest.com while you are > taking extra Mg. You may well need as much Mg as you get Ca from all sources for > a while. > mjh Hi MJ Thanks again for your thoughts on this; other health problems do point to a Mg deficiency, so I think you are right Rehash of diet/supplements is over due, and now on the urgent *things to do list* Thanks again LLx PS The Basil Book is just great! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Jo-Ann Guest wrote: >7b. Re: CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM > Posted by: " JoAnn Guest " angelprincessjo mrsjoguest > Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:03 pm (PDT) > >--- > >Re: CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM > >-- >One of the most obvious solutions is to design our diets to include >large amounts of potassium, at least up to the maximum amounts >derived from organic vegetables. I believe this strategy tends >to protect us against future excess potassium as >well as short term losses. Naturally, the most effective lifetime >strategy would be to get all the potassium and other nutrients which >was originally in the food, no huge excesses, and to eat, drink or >smoke no poisons in the first place. > > >The wide spread of nutritional contents of foods should make it >possible for a knowledgeable person to meet all his needs by wise >selection and preparation. > >Getting enough potassium in the diet would be a much superior >strategy for achieving results for several reasons >Because the clearance of blood through the liver is reduced in heart >disease,aldosterone builds up [Cope]. A further discussion of sodium/potassium balance from Adelle Davis: (http://www.answers.com/topic/adelle-davis) Your Blood Pressure -- Chapter 21 -- Adelle Davis http://www.karlloren.com/adelle-davis/p21.htm Sodium and podium. High blood pressure has been produced in animals merely by keeping them on a potassium-deficient diet or by feeding them excessive amounts of salt which causes so much potassium to be lost in the urine that a deficiency results.19-24 In either case, so much water is retained that the volume of blood increases and the blood pressure is elevated. Human potassium deficiencies as a cause of high blood pressure have been little studied. The incidence of hypertension throughout the world, however, is greatest an develops at the earliest age in populations having a excessive salt intake; and high blood pressure is virtually unknown where little salt is used.25 In Japan, for instance heart disease is rare, yet brain hemorrhage brought on by high blood pressure is the leading cause of death.26 In northern Japan, where salt fish is a principal food, the salt intake averages 27 grams daily, and deaths from brain hemorrhages are much higher than in the south, where the daily intake averages 17 grams.22 In America also the incidence of high blood pressure parallels the salt intake of 1 to 5 teaspoons (4 to 20 grams) daily,25 especially among over weight persons;22 and the tissues of American stroke victims have a much higher salt content than those of individuals dying from other causes. Decreasing the salt (sodium) intake has long been used successfully to lower blood pressure,27 but because severe salt restriction can be dangerous,28 this approach may not be the wisest one. Adequate calcium and vitamin D help to increase the loss of salt in the urine,29,30 and in rats high blood pressure caused by salt toxicity can be decreased or prevented by giving generous amounts of choline, pantothenic acid, vitamins B2 and C, and particularly potassium.31 The quantities of sodium and potassium in the blood constantly teeter-totter, and an excess of one causes the other to be lost in the urine. Thus persons eating salt as they wished excreted nine times more potassium that when their salt intake was limited;32 and human volunteers kept on diets deficient in potassium retained so much salt that they developed high blood pressure.32,36 Conversely potassium obtained from leaves and grass caused such high sodium losses that wild animals used to walk hundreds of miles to salt licks. Healthy kidneys, which conserve sodium far more efficiently than potassium, readily lose potassium in the urine and when kidneys are damaged, this nutrient is lost even more quickly.32 1f foods rich in potassium are eaten or a potassium salt is taken, a high blood pressure drops to normal provided its only cause is an excessive salt intake. Similarly, when sodium is restricted, potassium is conserved, excessive amounts of water and salt are no longer retained, and the blood pressure, if high, decreases. Under normal circumstances potassium remains largely in the cells and sodium in the surrounding fluids; thus placed, both play vital roles in controlling the passage of dozens of substances into and out of each cell. When the potassium content of the cells decreases because of a potassium deficiency, sodium passes into the depleted cells and attracts so much fluid that tissues become waterlogged.32 For this reason, high blood pressure is often accompanied by dropsy. Physicians have given patients with hypertension 5 to 20 grains of potassium chloride (or other potassium salts) daily and have found this approach equally as effective in reducing blood pressure as restricting salt (sodium).37-42 Furthermore, because many of these patients had both heart disease and high blood pressure, electrocardiograms were taken at 15-minute intervals after potassium was given; the changes toward normal were identical to those occurring when salt (sodium) was restricted. 1, 28-42 Unfortunately, a diet consisting of rice, fruit, and sugars is frequently given to people with high blood pressure despite the fact that it is criminally deficient in choline, pantothenic acid, all other B vitamins, iodine, vitamin E, complete proteins, and many other nutrients.11,44 Furthermore, carbohydrates cause salt and water to be retained in the body.45 Although the stress of this diet has induced ulcers,47 it does supply 20 times more potassium than sodium; and in persons able to endure it for two to five months, it has reduced blood pressure. Quantities of potassium are discarded during the refining of foods, and the richest sources, cooked green leafy vegetables, are now rarely eaten. These factors, combined with excessive urinary losses induced by our high salt intake, have now caused potassium deficiencies to be commonplace. Both sodium and potassium should be adequate, yet neither excessive. If salt is used in moderation, refined foods avoided, and fruits and vegetables generously supplied in the diet, a potassium deficiency is improbable unless the kidneys are damaged. Because my husband enjoys salt but looks on salads and many vegetables with a jaundiced eye, I keep ordinary salt mixed with an equal amount of a potassium-chloride salt substitute in all our salt shakers. No one has ever discovered this subterfuge. Such salt substitutes, however, vary from horrible to excellent. Persons whose blood pressure is already high should use a salt substitute entirely for a while; and, as a temporary measure, take 1 or 2 grams of potassium chloride at each meal unless they are being given digitalis. The diet should also be particularly adequate in every nutrient shown to reduce blood pressure. -- The individual is supreme and finds its way through intuition. Sepp Hasslberger Critical perspective on Health: http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/ La Leva di Archimede: http://www.laleva.cc/ La Leva's news: http://www.laleva.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 , Sepp Hasslberger <sepp wrote: > Human potassium deficiencies as a cause of high blood pressure >have been little studied. Clearly, Orthodox medicine and modern technology over the past few decades indicate that potassium deficiences are a determining factor in the escalating rates of high blood pressure in the western world and our country (the U.S) specifically! I highly respect Adelle Davis,and have read many of her articles, however I do not agree with her reasoning here. obviously her generation did not have access to the wealth of information we have at our disposal since the turn of the century. There is no doubt that imbalances of sodium and potassium are determining factors in high blood pressure and should be considered when dietary modifications are made. Adelle Davis lived in a more primitive age when prevalence of highly refined " processed " foods was not such a definitive problem. Fast foods consumption has undoubtedly tripled since she made these statements and we much take that into consideration when we read her comments on this highly sensitive subject. In her day, more women were stay at home moms, restaurants were few and far between and home-made foods were the norm whereas now with restaurants on every corner, and the health of americans compromised by inferior fats and oils, it is hardly safe to say that our lifestyles are in any way comparable with the old " health advocates' " which at that time had a limited knowledge of minerals and the way that they interact to impact our health. Many of the macro minerals such as selenium were not even " discovered " until after the nineteen fifties and folic acid entered the scene even later, so in my estimation it is foolish to rely on someone like Adelle. She was one of the great pioneers in alternatie medicine, but advanced as she was for her day, there is just no substitute for more advanced research. As I say, I have no idea what your country is dealing with at the moment, however we over here in america are dealing with literal epidemics of diabetes, heart disease and high blood pressure. My heart responded well to alternatives and I firmly believe that diet and lifestyle played a large part in my healing! However if you have read many articles on thes subjects you know that I also believe in the efficacy of herbs. To just rely on one approach for high blood pressure I agree, is quite foolish. We need to consider all aspects of health before making any health decisions. This is one reason I rely so much on herbs for my healing. Herbs work to correct any imbalances before they cause more serious problems. Drugs are not even comparable to herbs in my estimation,although certain processed foods such as refined sugar and salt have been compared to drugs in regards to the way they impact our bodies. I would also like to take note of the fact that undoubtedly unrefined sea salt was not available when Adelle Davis was in her prime. The article I sent to this group regarding seasalt contained some very important facts about seasalt and the healing impact it has on our health. Refined sugar and salt tears down our immune systems in a way that it is hard to describe and the mineral imbalances that lead up to high blood pressure are brought on by the way processed sugar and salt impacts the body. Refining of foods creates imbalances by destroying our basic mineral stores. Soda pop (coke,pepsi, etc) is worse for the simple reason that these drinks create calcium imbalances with their excessive phosphorus content. But then, this is the american way, and helps to create more profits for big pharma and everyone else who is involved in the whole scheme of things. Everything I post is geared mainly to the american way of life so it may not be applicable for other ethnic groups. This is just the tip of the iceberg, Sepp, I'd like to have a more indepth discussion sometime, although now is not the time. I wish you and your fellow countrymen good luck. Be thankful you live in Europe. The media reports that Europeans lead a much healthier lifestyle. :-) Be well, JoAnn > Decreasing the salt (sodium) intake has long been used successfully > to lower blood pressure,27 but because severe salt restriction can be > dangerous,28 this approach may not be the wisest one. > > Adequate calcium and vitamin D help to increase the loss of salt in > the urine,29,30 and in rats high blood pressure caused by salt > toxicity can be decreased or prevented by giving generous amounts of > choline, pantothenic acid, vitamins B2 and C, and particularly > potassium.31 > > The quantities of sodium and potassium in the blood constantly > teeter-totter, and an excess of one causes the other to be lost in > the urine. Thus persons eating salt as they wished excreted nine > times more potassium that when their salt intake was limited;32 and > human volunteers kept on diets deficient in potassium retained so > much salt that they developed high blood pressure.32,36 Conversely > potassium obtained from leaves and grass caused such high sodium > losses that wild animals used to walk hundreds of miles to salt licks. > > Healthy kidneys, which conserve sodium far more efficiently than > potassium, readily lose potassium in the urine and when kidneys are > damaged, this nutrient is lost even more quickly.32 1f foods rich in > potassium are eaten or a potassium salt is taken, a high blood > pressure drops to normal provided its only cause is an excessive salt > intake. > > Similarly, when sodium is restricted, potassium is conserved, > excessive amounts of water and salt are no longer retained, and the > blood pressure, if high, decreases. > > Under normal circumstances potassium remains largely in the cells and > sodium in the surrounding fluids; thus placed, both play vital roles > in controlling the passage of dozens of substances into and out of > each cell. When the potassium content of the cells decreases because > of a potassium deficiency, sodium passes into the depleted cells and > attracts so much fluid that tissues become waterlogged.32 For this > reason, high blood pressure is often accompanied by dropsy. > > Physicians have given patients with hypertension 5 to 20 grains of > potassium chloride (or other potassium salts) daily and have found > this approach equally as effective in reducing blood pressure as > restricting salt (sodium).37-42 Furthermore, because many of these > patients had both heart disease and high blood pressure, > electrocardiograms were taken at 15-minute intervals after potassium > was given; the changes toward normal were identical to those > occurring when salt (sodium) was restricted. 1, 28-42 > > Unfortunately, a diet consisting of rice, fruit, and sugars is > frequently given to people with high blood pressure despite the fact > that it is criminally deficient in choline, pantothenic acid, all > other B vitamins, iodine, vitamin E, complete proteins, and many > other nutrients.11,44 Furthermore, carbohydrates cause salt and water > to be retained in the body.45 Although the stress of this diet has > induced ulcers,47 it does supply 20 times more potassium than sodium; > and in persons able to endure it for two to five months, it has > reduced blood pressure. > Quantities of potassium are discarded during the refining of foods, > and the richest sources, cooked green leafy vegetables, are now > rarely eaten. These factors, combined with excessive urinary losses > induced by our high salt intake, have now caused potassium > deficiencies to be commonplace. Both sodium and potassium should be > adequate, yet neither excessive. If salt is used in moderation, > refined foods avoided, and fruits and vegetables generously supplied > in the diet, a potassium deficiency is improbable unless the kidneys > are damaged. Because my husband enjoys salt but looks on salads and > many vegetables with a jaundiced eye, I keep ordinary salt mixed with > an equal amount of a potassium-chloride salt substitute in all our > salt shakers. No one has ever discovered this subterfuge. Such salt > substitutes, however, vary from horrible to excellent. > > Persons whose blood pressure is already high should use a salt > substitute entirely for a while; and, as a temporary measure, take 1 > or 2 grams of potassium chloride at each meal unless they are being > given digitalis. The diet should also be particularly adequate in > every nutrient shown to reduce blood pressure. > > > -- > > > The individual is supreme and finds its way through intuition. > > Sepp Hasslberger > > > Critical perspective on Health: http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/ > > La Leva di Archimede: http://www.laleva.cc/ > La Leva's news: http://www.laleva.org/ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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