Eczema

[Guest guest]

Dear Eti,

Is this nummular eczema or atopic?

Simon

 

, Eti Domb <etidomb> wrote:

>

> Hello All.

>

> I am treating a young woman with very severe eczema all over her

body. The lesions are red, itchy and inflammed. She gets so severe

that the only relief is steroids. The welts are all over especially

back, abdomen and arms. some are fluid filled.

>

[Guest guest]

, Eti Domb <etidomb> wrote:

 

> I am treating a young woman with very severe eczema all over her body. The

lesions are red, itchy and inflammed. She gets so severe that the only relief

is steroids. The welts are all over especially back, abdomen and arms. some

are fluid filled.

> other symptoms:easily bruised, ADD, decreased sense of smell, difficulty

sleeping due to itching, excessive appetite and cold hands and feet.

>

> Eti

>

> Her pulses are soggy and blocked, choppy-like. The tongue is swollen, red

with a greasey white coat and raised flat dots in the front.

 

Here are a few Links that might help:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/ermiao.htm

http://www.cathayherbal.com/library/TCM_Case_Studies/Treating_Eczema_/treating_e\

czema_.htm

http://www.tcmtreatment.com/images/diseases/eczema.htm

[Guest guest]

, Eti Domb <etidomb>

wrote:

 

>

> Any suggestions as to an herbal formula??

 

Eti

 

What have you tried? The presentation of the lesions seems to

match that of xiao feng san fairly well. I don't usually see such

severe cases, but its almost easier sometimes when the

presentation is so acute and stark. I would probably treat the

branch with such an rx to get it under control before addressing

the root, which is distorted due to steroid use, no doubt. If the

formula does match closely (and only you can determine that),

you could use a powdered extract of 15 grams per day in 2-3

divided doses or decoction if the pt. is willing. As soon as the

rash recedes somewhat, I would begin to introduce herbs to

address the root, which seems to be some sort of vacuity.

 

[Guest guest]

, " chinesemedicineman "

> > Her pulses are soggy and blocked, choppy-like.

 

 

Where are the pulses blocked?

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

--- " L.Blakeney Holverstott "

<naturallyaesthetic wrote:

> Sun, 29 Sep 2002 08:42:55 -0700 (PDT)

> " L.Blakeney Holverstott "

> <naturallyaesthetic

> eczema

> chinesesherbacademy

> CC: etidomb

>

> Your assessment - edematous, pruritic, erythematous

> papules and wheals.

>

> These are the basic differential questions to which

> you must have a clear answer. What is the date of

> the original presentation? Was it approximately 4-6

> weeks ago, or has this lasted for a longer period of

time? Upon closer examination, does the presentation

one consist of one lesion or are there several lesions

in close proximity? Do the lesions present more on the

upper body or the lower body. Do you note geographical

symmetry? Are the size of the lesions small or large?

Are the lesions bright red, dark red, pale,or flesh

color? Do the wheals develop and disappear rapidly(

from 20 minutes to 8 hours, although they can last 1-2

days) do they take longer to resolve, or do they not

resolve? Do the wheals have a regular shape

configuration? Or are they irregularly shaped? Are

there scales or flakes noted on or around the lesions?

Are the lesions firm to the touch? Are the lesions

sharply circumscribed? Do you note signs of

excoriation? Bloody scabs?

Ask your client the following questions: Is there an

improvement or aggravation of the symptoms with: Cold,

Heat, Wind, Evening time, Vacation time? Dietary

Intake? ETOH intake, Is relief obtained from

scratching? Or is relief obtained from rubbing? Ask

your client to keep a carefully documented activities

notebook for 5 days to 1 week and note any patterns.

Please combine results of the above with the results

of your CM examinations, and plan your treatment

accordingly. If I can be of any other assistance

please do not hesitate to ask.

>

>

>

>

> New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

> http://sbc.

>

 

 

 

 

New DSL Internet Access from SBC &

http://sbc.

[Guest guest]

the cun and guan positions

Eti

James Ramholz wrote:

, "chinesemedicineman" > > Her pulses are soggy and blocked, choppy-like.Where are the pulses blocked?Jim RamholzChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Todd. I had her on bu zhong yi qi tang and siwutang with some elements of yinqiao tang -

I will try xiao feng san, the pattern does fit except that she has had the czema for over two years and I was weary of the cold nature of xiao feng san. Eti

wrote:

, Eti Domb <etidomb> wrote:> > Any suggestions as to an herbal formula??EtiWhat have you tried? The presentation of the lesions seems to match that of xiao feng san fairly well. I don't usually see such severe cases, but its almost easier sometimes when the presentation is so acute and stark. I would probably treat the branch with such an rx to get it under control before addressing the root, which is distorted due to steroid use, no doubt. If the formula does match closely (and only you can determine that), you could use a powdered extract of 15 grams per day in 2-3 divided doses or decoction if the pt. is willing. As soon as the rash recedes somewhat, I would begin to introduce herbs to address the root, which seems to be some sort of vacuity.ToddChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Simon, the eczema is atopic

Eti

Simon King wrote:

Dear Eti,Is this nummular eczema or atopic?Simon, Eti Domb <etidomb> wrote:> > Hello All. > > I am treating a young woman with very severe eczema all over her body. The lesions are red, itchy and inflammed. She gets so severe that the only relief is steroids. The welts are all over especially back, abdomen and arms. some are fluid filled. > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

You can also use Xiao Feng San topically, as a wash. You can also try

that Spring Wind ointment, I've used it myself and it worked very well.

I was using Temovate, under the ultra-high strength steroid treatments,

but the eczema would just come back right after stopping it. Then I

started using Spring Wind ointment and it pretty much stayed away, with

occasional light flare ups. I also found olive oil soap or glycerine

soap was helpful.

 

Geoff

 

 

> __________

>

> Message: 8

> Sun, 29 Sep 2002 20:55:52 -0000

> " " <

> Re: eczema

>

> , Eti Domb <etidomb>

> wrote:

>

> >

> > Any suggestions as to an herbal formula??

>

> Eti

>

> What have you tried? The presentation of the lesions seems to

> match that of xiao feng san fairly well. I don't usually see such

> severe cases, but its almost easier sometimes when the

> presentation is so acute and stark. I would probably treat the

> branch with such an rx to get it under control before addressing

> the root, which is distorted due to steroid use, no doubt. If the

> formula does match closely (and only you can determine that),

> you could use a powdered extract of 15 grams per day in 2-3

> divided doses or decoction if the pt. is willing. As soon as the

> rash recedes somewhat, I would begin to introduce herbs to

> address the root, which seems to be some sort of vacuity.

>

 

[Guest guest]

geoff, the spring wind ointment caused a flare up. I tried my liniment for itching and that did not help either..

I am going to try Xiao feng san next.

Eti

"Geoffrey Hudson, L.Ac." wrote:

You can also use Xiao Feng San topically, as a wash. You can also trythat Spring Wind ointment, I've used it myself and it worked very well.I was using Temovate, under the ultra-high strength steroid treatments,but the eczema would just come back right after stopping it. Then Istarted using Spring Wind ointment and it pretty much stayed away, withoccasional light flare ups. I also found olive oil soap or glycerinesoap was helpful.Geoff> __________> > Message: 8> Sun, 29 Sep 2002 20:55:52 -0000> "" <> Re: eczema> > , Eti Domb <etidomb> > wrote:> > > > > Any suggestions as to an herbal formula??> > Eti> > What have you tried? The presentation of the lesions seems to > match that of xiao feng san fairly well. I don't usually see such > severe cases, but its almost easier sometimes when the > presentation is so acute and stark. I would probably treat the > branch with such an rx to get it under control before addressing > the root, which is distorted due to steroid use, no doubt. If the > formula does match closely (and only you can determine that), > you could use a powdered extract of 15 grams per day in 2-3 > divided doses or decoction if the pt. is willing. As soon as the > rash recedes somewhat, I would begin to introduce herbs to > address the root, which seems to be some sort of vacuity.> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

, Eti Domb <etidomb> wrote:

>

> Simon, the eczema is atopic

> Eti

> Simon King wrote:

> Dear Eti,

> Is this nummular eczema or atopic?

> Simon

 

The way I have treated this over the last few years is based on Mazin

Al-Kafaji's teaching as well as Dr Li Lin who was a student of a

famous dermatologist, Prof Zhu Renkang. It is based on the mechanisms

behind the lessions which are primary in diagnosis, the tongue and

pulse are relatively unimportant. If the pathological mechanisms are

heat, wind, damp and fire toxin then the degree of redness and amount

and spread of lesions indicates the degree of heat, the degree of

damp is indicated by the amount and size of the fluid filled lesions

and degree of clarity of lesion margins (better circumscribed = more

damp) as well as position on body ( upper signs of damp mean more

than when on lower body)and tendancy to be on extensor surfaces.

Degree of wind is indicated by amount of itch, fire toxin is

indicated by severity esp of damp heat signs and presence of

pustules.

 

As you have described the patient it sounds like heat with dampness.

with wind and maybe fire toxin. The base formula I would use is

Liang Xue Chu Shi Tang, Cool the blood and eliminate dampness

decoction.

Sheng di 15-30

chi shao 6-9

pu gong ying 12-30

bai xian pi 6-12

mu dan pi 6-9

huang qin 6-9

bai ji li 6 -12

di fu zi 6-12

gan cao 6

One days dose,

if there is great erythema you could add zi cao and more or less

deep acting fire toxin herbs like lian qiao or zi hua di ding, or da

qing ye which is somewhere between those two. With bad itch could add

xi xian cao, fang feng and, esp with asthma, chan tui. General body

heat could add shi gao and zhi mu or, esp with alot of damp, hua shi.

 

I have had alot of success following Mazin,s in particular, approach

and truly there is no need for the patient to do anything else unless

there are clear aggravating factors

Treatment time 3-5 months

 

Best wishes,

Simon

 

> > I am treating a young woman with very severe eczema all over her

> body. The lesions are red, itchy and inflammed. She gets so

severe

> that the only relief is steroids. The welts are all over

especially

> back, abdomen and arms. some are fluid filled.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Simon, I will try the formula for her when she comes in next week.

Eti

Simon King wrote:

, Eti Domb <etidomb> wrote:> > Simon, the eczema is atopic> Eti> Simon King wrote:> Dear Eti,> Is this nummular eczema or atopic?> SimonThe way I have treated this over the last few years is based on Mazin Al-Kafaji's teaching as well as Dr Li Lin who was a student of a famous dermatologist, Prof Zhu Renkang. It is based on the mechanisms behind the lessions which are primary in diagnosis, the tongue and pulse are relatively unimportant. If the pathological mechanisms are heat, wind, damp and fire toxin then the degree of redness and amount and spread of lesions indicates the degree of heat, the degree of damp is indicated by the amount and size of the fluid filled lesions and degree of clarity of lesion margins (better circumscribed = more damp) as well as position on body ( upper signs of damp mean more than when on lower body)and tendancy to be on extensor surfaces. Degree of wind is indicated by amount of itch, fire toxin is indicated by severity esp of damp heat signs and presence of pustules.As you have described the patient it sounds like heat with dampness. with wind and maybe fire toxin. The base formula I would use is Liang Xue Chu Shi Tang, Cool the blood and eliminate dampness decoction.Sheng di 15-30chi shao 6-9pu gong ying 12-30bai xian pi 6-12mu dan pi 6-9huang qin 6-9bai ji li 6 -12di fu zi 6-12gan cao 6One days dose,if there is great erythema you could add zi cao and more or less deep acting fire toxin herbs like lian qiao or zi hua di ding, or da qing ye which is somewhere between those two. With bad itch could add xi xian cao, fang feng and, esp with asthma, chan tui. General body heat could add shi gao and zhi mu or, esp with alot of damp, hua shi.I have had alot of success following Mazin,s in particular, approachand truly there is no need for the patient to do anything else unless there are clear aggravating factorsTreatment time 3-5 monthsBest wishes,Simon> > I am treating a young woman with very severe eczema all over her > body. The lesions are red, itchy and inflammed. She gets so severe > that the only relief is steroids. The welts are all over especially > back, abdomen and arms. some are fluid filled. > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Yes you are so right, that is what I am doing. I use Seventh Generation

detergent (other recommendations welcomed) and I rinse with white vinegar,

thanks for the reminder as i had bought a " natural " softener and used it and

I think it worsened the problem. I have been applying approx 1-2tsp avocado

oil with 1 drop Roman Chamomile in it. I have noticed a remarkable

improvement! Its on my leg and I am trying to avoid socks/hose as that

inflames it. Also drinking a skin detox tea of yellow

dock/sarsapirella/burdock and something else I can't remember (nor how to

spell). Have also cut out a vit C supplement that could have been

aggravating it, trying another to see.

anne h

 

Back to eczema again - I find this time of year when the clothes are

clingy

and the skin is dry that washing in a natural soap and rinsing with

vinegar

can mean a lot less itching when wearing clothing.

 

Jackie

 

 

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release 1/21/2003

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Mary

I think the best thing to do is first to try to find out the cause and then

treat that! Often excema is stress related/aggravated and it is frequently

linked with dairy products/soya/ wheat.etc. Then there is the genetic thing, my

little grandson has very bad excema and we have discovered lots of it in our

backgrounds which we didn't know about, but he is also allergic to dairy and

soya and eggs.

We went to a kineisiologist and found that very helpful.

Regards

Ann - Scotland

 

I wanted to ask your opinion about treating eczema,

 

 

[Guest guest]

Mary,

Skin excema is often related to an insufficient diet.

Treating them with EO's works , I think Marge has a good synergy for that.

But you will forever battle it if you dont treat it from the inside,too.

With omega oils, humidity in the house in winter, natural soaps and

detergents, clothes that can breathe.

C-M

[Guest guest]

Hey Peggy!

Wow, how cool is that? I've also never heard of Babassu oil. I'd love to

know how you use it, what you know about it, etc. It sounds interesting!

 

Melissa

 

 

Peggy Lowell <plowell wrote:

I have no idea whether or not this is a fluke, but I used to have eczema

between my fingers....since I started rubbing babassu oil into it, it has gone

away. Does anyone know why this might be?

Peggy

Lowell McNaughton Soap

www.LMsoap.com

 

 

 

-----

 

Second question regards my eczema. Most of the time it's quite

manageable - with an occasional mild outbreak here and there. Okay,

fine. However, my upcoming trip (with some " vacation stress " and

also the heat out west) might very well cause a flare-up for me.

Lavender EO in emu would prolly be my first choice. What else? I

don't have problems with it very often, so I'm kinda " rusty " as to

how to deal with it the best. Suggestions? TIA!

Linda Ludwick (previous lurker ... with some questions for ya)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

From what I have learned from Doc, any such skin problems relate to a

non-optimum functioning kidney. However, as you're pregnant I am not sure

what you can do about that! A detox is not advisable while pregnant. The

only things I can suggest to perhaps manage it better until after the birth,

is to improve your diet: 100% organics foods, exercise, and plenty fresh

air/sunshine. Perhaps Doc's First Aid salve might help the skin itself to

heal - recipe is in the files.

 

Perhaps you can find the triggers diet-wise for the skin problems?

 

love

Lisa de Haas

Senior Moderator

-

" dontfencemein1979 " <dontfencemein1979

<herbal remedies >

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:56 PM

Herbal Remedies - Eczema

 

 

> Does anyone have a solution for eczema (face and hands) that is

> suitable for a pregnant woman?

>

> -Jamie

>

>

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural

> remedy.

> 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and

> to

> prescribe for your own health.

> We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long

> as

> they behave themselves.

> Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any

> person

> following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk.

> It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from

> list members, you are agreeing to

> be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and

> members free of any liability.

>

> Dr. Ian Shillington

> Doctor of Naturopathy

> Dr.IanShillington

>

[Guest guest]

Have you tried coconut oil?

 

-------------- Original message -------------- "dontfencemein1979" <dontfencemein1979 Does anyone have a solution for eczema (face and hands) that is suitable for a pregnant woman?-Jamie

[Guest guest]

This can be tough especially at the younger ages where it may tend towards the

hereditary. And the use of herbs can be problematic for them to take. I try to

begin at the

diet and see if you can help it at least at that level. Watch for soy products,

milk, spicy

food, shell fish, sugars etc...

 

Although some of friends disagree, I like Yincare lotion for redness and itching

on the

skin.

 

just a start for you,

doug

 

, " curl1000 " <curl1000 wrote:

>

> Hi,

> I am wondering if some of the more experienced practitioners would be

> willing to share information/experiences/insights on treating eczema?

> I am a beginning practitioner trying internal and external herbs and

> looking for advice. Most of the clients I have seen with eczema are

> girls between the ages of 4-12. Of course they all have different CM

> presentations. Some blood def. and others excess heat. I am

> wondering if anyone has formulas or topical herbs that have worked for

> them that I might apply to these cases.

> Jessica

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jessica,

As a student of Mazin Al Khafaji's, who is in my opininion one of the best CM

dermatologists in the west, the first thing I would recommend is to take

pictures of all the

parts affected. Make sure you have good light. This is the best way to monitor

progress,

otherwsie both you and the client will forget how much healing has actually

occured. This

is also a neccessary method for sharing your cases with other practitioners,

because skin

disease is very much a look and see disease in terms of diagnosis. It is not

uncommon for

the toungue and pulse to seem somewhat contradictory to what you see on the

outside of

the body.

The next piece of advice I will share is to not be affraid to drain more than

tonify,

meaning clear excesses more than say nourish the blood, especially in the

beginning. The

main disease mechanisms I would be looking for is blood heat and dampness.

Of course eczema is a complicated disease and can take a long time to heal,

at least 3-4

months, for real progress.

 

Good luck,

Trevor

, " curl1000 " <curl1000 wrote:

>

> Hi,

> I am wondering if some of the more experienced practitioners would be

> willing to share information/experiences/insights on treating eczema?

> I am a beginning practitioner trying internal and external herbs and

> looking for advice. Most of the clients I have seen with eczema are

> girls between the ages of 4-12. Of course they all have different CM

> presentations. Some blood def. and others excess heat. I am

> wondering if anyone has formulas or topical herbs that have worked for

> them that I might apply to these cases.

> Jessica

>

[Guest guest]

Jessica,

In treating my own eczema - which is seasonal (late winter / early

spring), and had gone through the student clinic when I was a student

and did the raw herb (one of our teachers did his PhD in TCM derm) /

acupuncture / plum blossom (ouch - on the fingers) - eventually what

helped the most was temovate, a very high strength steroid cream,

which helped allow the skin to finally heal so I could open and close

my hands without bleeding, and then I stated using Spring Wind (golden

flower I think it is..) to keep it under control once the fire was

out. Bath & Body works has a good liquid hand soap with shea butter

(or glycerine soap, or pure olive oil soap) that isn't too aggrevating

(lever 2000, ivory et al were too irritating). I haven't had a bad

flareup in 7 years, but it's still my weak spot and washing the dishes

without gloves is a no-no and winter is hell with the dry forced air

heating.

 

Geoff

 

, " curl1000 " <curl1000

wrote:

>

> Hi,

> I am wondering if some of the more experienced practitioners would be

> willing to share information/experiences/insights on treating eczema?

> I am a beginning practitioner trying internal and external herbs and

> looking for advice. Most of the clients I have seen with eczema are

> girls between the ages of 4-12. Of course they all have different CM

> presentations. Some blood def. and others excess heat. I am

> wondering if anyone has formulas or topical herbs that have worked for

> them that I might apply to these cases.

> Jessica

>

[Guest guest]

Just some anecedotal experience. 2 years ago (?) Dr. Meng (?) gave a

lecture at ACTCM about skin disease. She says to use " resolve by

sweating " method on 'pre-pustular lesions'. Got me thinking. Last

year I got rid of someone's eczema of 3 years (and hemmorroids)

using a yin qiao san modification (5:1 powders)(the guy was a

smoker) and someone else with really bad scalp psorriasis since

teens (now 35 y.o.) has no problem as long as she takes her herbs

(guizhi tang + si wu tang +). If she stops it still stays at a 50%

reduction.

 

so sweating formulas might make a good base with or without

modifications...

_______

 

Acupuncture ~ Herbal Medicine ~ Manual Therapy

 

Philip Cusick, L.Ac.

2588 Mission @ 22nd

Suite #204

San Francisco, CA 94110

 

415 730-2448

415 962-0605 fax

 

www.philcusick.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

That's what I tell my students... for skin diseases look at the first category

of Bensky, the

exterior conditions.

doug

 

 

 

, Philip Cusick <pkcusick wrote:

>

> Just some anecedotal experience. 2 years ago (?) Dr. Meng (?) gave a

> lecture at ACTCM about skin disease. She says to use " resolve by

> sweating " method on 'pre-pustular lesions'. Got me thinking. Last

> year I got rid of someone's eczema of 3 years (and hemmorroids)

> using a yin qiao san modification (5:1 powders)(the guy was a

> smoker) and someone else with really bad scalp psorriasis since

> teens (now 35 y.o.) has no problem as long as she takes her herbs

> (guizhi tang + si wu tang +). If she stops it still stays at a 50%

> reduction.

>

> so sweating formulas might make a good base with or without

> modifications...

> _______

>

> Acupuncture ~ Herbal Medicine ~ Manual Therapy

>

> Philip Cusick, L.Ac.

> 2588 Mission @ 22nd

> Suite #204

> San Francisco, CA 94110

>

[Guest guest]

My son (11)has red, itchy, scaly like skin under and around his

nose..It looks like Psoriasis(sp) or Eczema?? Not sure..He is fair

skinned and freckled... I have tried a few things to get rid of it or

at least under control..It has appeared in the last 6 months.. I have

not changed anything in the household... Does anyone know of

any " natural " remedies?? I am willing to try anything.. He is self

conscious about the redness... Poor thing... Its not contagious because

no one else in the house has it.. Any help available??? Thanks!!

Angelicfaery

[Guest guest]

You might try an oil in which neem herb has been steeped - which you'd have to

get from an ayurvedic source. Alternatively, have you tried vaseline? or Willard

Water? (do a google search for 'willard water eczema' for some interesting info.

I have been using all these against a skin fungal infection and a skin eczema

patch that seems to be an auto-immune response to fungal infection and which

looks a little like eczema. With some positive results.

 

Jonathan

 

angelicfaery73 <angelicfaery73 wrote:

My son (11)has red, itchy, scaly like skin under and around his

nose..It looks like Psoriasis(sp) or Eczema?? Not sure..He is fair

skinned and freckled... I have tried a few things to get rid of it or