Guest guest Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Hi Eric Your points are solid and I donnot debate them at all, all I was really trying to convey is that due to the mess of western literature it is very differcult for Western educated people learn. I do agree they can learn but like you they need clear, concise texts to give true understanding, I believe this author has contributed significantly to this task, I know it has helped me emmensly. Regards manu smilinglotus <smilinglotus wrote: Manu: >TCM >being familiar and easily comprehendable for Chinese cultered people Eric: This is a frequently encountered myth. Modern Chinese people are educated with a scientific viewpoint. They grow up with ideas like qi and yin-yang as familiar concepts, but these basic theories are generally well-grasped by many Western practitioners and are not a source of a great divide within the educated Western community. We may tend to overmystify qi in comparison to Asian cultures, where qi is not treated as some obscure concept or leap of faith, yet the specific theories of Chinese medicine are as foreign to modern Chinese students as they are to modern Western students. Everyone needs to learn advanced TCM theory more or less from scratch no matter what culture they come from. Chinese people have the advantage that they have a great deal of solid literature upon which to form their ideas, whereas we have a great deal of distorted literature targeted to different audiences for different purposes. The Chinese belief that Westerners are incapable of comprehending the authentic depth of TCM has caused the presentation of TCM to be modified and simplified in expectation that this is required to appeal to the Western pallate. Yet it is simply not true that Westerners cannot learn to understand the depth of traditional Chinese theory. We simply need reliable sources of minimally distorted information that preserve the authentic viewpoints, historical evolution, and metaphors that influence the expression of traditional theory. The shortcomings in the Western understanding of TCM are not due to the fallacy that Western minds cannot understand the concepts, the shortcomings are due to the fact that many have had poorly transmitted literature as the basis of their education. Eric Brand ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Manu, I would maintain that Western students cannot gain a true understanding of Chinese medicine if the English material that they study omits the metaphors and traditional language and theory that is used in Chinese medicine. We can only have a solid basis in CM theory when we understand Chinese medicine on its own, without simplification of concepts and the without the influence of Western medical terminology and Western cultural expectations. Energy is not the same as qi. Calling the kidney " vital energy " does nothing to preserve the metaphors and does nothing to enhance the understanding of the kidney as it is viewed in CM. Eric Brand Chinese Medicine , manu hamlin <manuhamlin> wrote: > > Hi Eric > > Your points are solid and I donnot debate them at all, all I was really trying to convey is that due to the mess of western literature it is very differcult for Western educated people learn. I do agree they can learn but like you they need clear, concise texts to give true understanding, I believe this author has contributed significantly to this task, I know it has helped me emmensly. > > Regards > > manu > > smilinglotus <smilinglotus> wrote: > > > Manu: > >TCM > >being familiar and easily comprehendable for Chinese cultered people > > Eric: > This is a frequently encountered myth. Modern Chinese people are > educated with a scientific viewpoint. They grow up with ideas like > qi and yin-yang as familiar concepts, but these basic theories are > generally well-grasped by many Western practitioners and are not a > source of a great divide within the educated Western community. We > may tend to overmystify qi in comparison to Asian cultures, where qi > is not treated as some obscure concept or leap of faith, yet the > specific theories of Chinese medicine are as foreign to modern > Chinese students as they are to modern Western students. > > Everyone needs to learn advanced TCM theory more or less from > scratch no matter what culture they come from. Chinese people have > the advantage that they have a great deal of solid literature upon > which to form their ideas, whereas we have a great deal of distorted > literature targeted to different audiences for different purposes. > The Chinese belief that Westerners are incapable of comprehending > the authentic depth of TCM has caused the presentation of TCM to be > modified and simplified in expectation that this is required to > appeal to the Western pallate. Yet it is simply not true that > Westerners cannot learn to understand the depth of traditional > Chinese theory. We simply need reliable sources of minimally > distorted information that preserve the authentic viewpoints, > historical evolution, and metaphors that influence the expression of > traditional theory. > > The shortcomings in the Western understanding of TCM are not due to > the fallacy that Western minds cannot understand the concepts, the > shortcomings are due to the fact that many have had poorly > transmitted literature as the basis of their education. > > Eric Brand > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Hi Eric Firstly the term was not vitality energy, the term was vitality system as this gives the implication that we are talking about much more than just many connected factors e.g. system. This is how TCM views things rather than WM which mostly looks as individual machanical parts. As for simplifying things I have stated a dozen times already nothing has been simplified or waltered down to make things simple. I am only demonstrating a small piece of the puzzle here, there are really so many factors that come into play into this subject and I cannot be expected to cover them all in one post.Remember before Einstien worked out the formula for energy scientists form all over the world ridiculed him as his answer seemed far to simple not to mention the greatest minds had been trying to solve this problem for centuries. Often all it takes is someone to come along with a fresh perspective and alot of common sense to solve the unsolvable. There is so much to gain form this to not atleast take a serious look, you could be to busy being skeptical to see what you have been looking for. Regards Manu smilinglotus <smilinglotus wrote: Manu, I would maintain that Western students cannot gain a true understanding of Chinese medicine if the English material that they study omits the metaphors and traditional language and theory that is used in Chinese medicine. We can only have a solid basis in CM theory when we understand Chinese medicine on its own, without simplification of concepts and the without the influence of Western medical terminology and Western cultural expectations. Energy is not the same as qi. Calling the kidney " vital energy " does nothing to preserve the metaphors and does nothing to enhance the understanding of the kidney as it is viewed in CM. Eric Brand Chinese Medicine , manu hamlin <manuhamlin> wrote: > > Hi Eric > > Your points are solid and I donnot debate them at all, all I was really trying to convey is that due to the mess of western literature it is very differcult for Western educated people learn. I do agree they can learn but like you they need clear, concise texts to give true understanding, I believe this author has contributed significantly to this task, I know it has helped me emmensly. > > Regards > > manu > > smilinglotus <smilinglotus> wrote: > > > Manu: > >TCM > >being familiar and easily comprehendable for Chinese cultered people > > Eric: > This is a frequently encountered myth. Modern Chinese people are > educated with a scientific viewpoint. They grow up with ideas like > qi and yin-yang as familiar concepts, but these basic theories are > generally well-grasped by many Western practitioners and are not a > source of a great divide within the educated Western community. We > may tend to overmystify qi in comparison to Asian cultures, where qi > is not treated as some obscure concept or leap of faith, yet the > specific theories of Chinese medicine are as foreign to modern > Chinese students as they are to modern Western students. > > Everyone needs to learn advanced TCM theory more or less from > scratch no matter what culture they come from. Chinese people have > the advantage that they have a great deal of solid literature upon > which to form their ideas, whereas we have a great deal of distorted > literature targeted to different audiences for different purposes. > The Chinese belief that Westerners are incapable of comprehending > the authentic depth of TCM has caused the presentation of TCM to be > modified and simplified in expectation that this is required to > appeal to the Western pallate. Yet it is simply not true that > Westerners cannot learn to understand the depth of traditional > Chinese theory. We simply need reliable sources of minimally > distorted information that preserve the authentic viewpoints, > historical evolution, and metaphors that influence the expression of > traditional theory. > > The shortcomings in the Western understanding of TCM are not due to > the fallacy that Western minds cannot understand the concepts, the > shortcomings are due to the fact that many have had poorly > transmitted literature as the basis of their education. > > Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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