Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Hi all I have a male patient, 57, otherwise pretty healthy, who was bitten by a rattlesnake around Sp 4 last Friday. He's been in hospital since then with swelling moving up to the groin. They have had to adminsiter at least 4 doses of anti-venin with no real reduction in swelling. They are keeping him until at least Wed. at last report. He is anxious to begin CM therapy to help recovery. The swelling is red and hot in places. To my understanding this is heat toxin (?). I find no formulas in Bensky that specifically talk about snake bite althought there are several single herbs which do mention in. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this. Of the formulas in Bensky, Xian fang huo ming yin or Wu wei xiao du yin seem most likely to me. Should I add any specific snake bite herbs like Bai Wei or Bai hua she she cao? I don't have chuan shan jia or zao jiao ci--can these be left out or are there other substitutes? Or should we just use single snake bite herbs? How about points? P6, Bl 40? Others? Is it safe to needle the affected leg? Bleeding? Thanks, Shanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Kid 9 is well known as an antitoxin point for all kinds of poisons. - Matt - shannahickle Chinese Medicine Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:11 AM snake bite Hi all I have a male patient, 57, otherwise pretty healthy, who was bitten by a rattlesnake around Sp 4 last Friday. He's been in hospital since then with swelling moving up to the groin. They have had to adminsiter at least 4 doses of anti-venin with no real reduction in swelling. They are keeping him until at least Wed. at last report. He is anxious to begin CM therapy to help recovery. The swelling is red and hot in places. To my understanding this is heat toxin (?). I find no formulas in Bensky that specifically talk about snake bite althought there are several single herbs which do mention in. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this. Of the formulas in Bensky, Xian fang huo ming yin or Wu wei xiao du yin seem most likely to me. Should I add any specific snake bite herbs like Bai Wei or Bai hua she she cao? I don't have chuan shan jia or zao jiao ci--can these be left out or are there other substitutes? Or should we just use single snake bite herbs? How about points? P6, Bl 40? Others? Is it safe to needle the affected leg? Bleeding? Thanks, Shanna http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Matt- So is LI 15. LI 15 is often used with Kd9 for all kinds of detoxing, even for methadone patients. Kd 9 is a strong diuretic point, while Li 15 is the real detoxing point, according to Jap acup. JG --- Matt Bauer <acu.guy wrote: > Kid 9 is well known as an antitoxin point for all > kinds of poisons. - Matt > - > shannahickle > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:11 AM > snake bite > > > > Hi all > > I have a male patient, 57, otherwise pretty > healthy, who was bitten > by a rattlesnake around Sp 4 last Friday. He's > been in hospital > since then with swelling moving up to the groin. > They have had to > adminsiter at least 4 doses of anti-venin with no > real reduction in > swelling. They are keeping him until at least Wed. > at last report. > He is anxious to begin CM therapy to help > recovery. The swelling is > red and hot in places. To my understanding this is > heat toxin (?). I > find no formulas in Bensky that specifically talk > about snake bite > althought there are several single herbs which do > mention in. I was > wondering if anyone has any experience with this. > Of the formulas in > Bensky, Xian fang huo ming yin or Wu wei xiao du > yin seem most > likely to me. Should I add any specific snake bite > herbs like Bai > Wei or Bai hua she she cao? I don't have chuan > shan jia or zao jiao > ci--can these be left out or are there other > substitutes? Or should > we just use single snake bite herbs? How about > points? P6, Bl 40? > Others? Is it safe to needle the affected leg? > Bleeding? > > Thanks, Shanna > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into > this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > and adjust accordingly. > > If you , it takes a few days for the > messages to stop being delivered. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any > duplication outside the group requires prior > permission from the author. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Hi all Thanks to everyone who contributed on snake bite. However, the patient, after being sent home for 12 hours, has developed Pneumonia. Hi wife says they both had slight colds when the bite occured. He was administered large doses of IM cortisone, antibiotics and antivenin over 5 days. The leg swelling had begun to subside finally, but his body is swollen from the prednisone and a cough and shortness of breath began at home last night. He is back in hospital being treated for the Pneumonia. They are frantic, calling me for acupressure advice and, of course, wanting me to smuggle teas in, which I will not do. I have not examined the patient as the hospital is 80 miles away. His wife reports he is feverish, no sweating (they haven't taken his temp and I told her to ask them to). Cough (mostly dry) short of breath with difficulty sleeping as he stops breathing when he falls asleep (prednisone withdrawl?) and then wakes to breath. Any ideas as to how this happened and what to do? She says his tongue looks bright pink and red underneath with a rough white coat. Pulse is 80 and " strong " she says (floating? wiry?) Usually his pulse is wiry. The doctor wants to cease the steroids suddenly--is this wise? And what of the snake bite now? I guess the only thing one can count on is change and acute conditions change rapidly. This is complicated and I feel reticent to offer advice at all. Thanks again to everybody. Shanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Thanks for the info John - good to know. Matt - John Garbarini Chinese Medicine Wednesday, October 20, 2004 6:43 AM Re: snake bite Matt- So is LI 15. LI 15 is often used with Kd9 for all kinds of detoxing, even for methadone patients. Kd 9 is a strong diuretic point, while Li 15 is the real detoxing point, according to Jap acup. JG --- Matt Bauer <acu.guy wrote: > Kid 9 is well known as an antitoxin point for all > kinds of poisons. - Matt > - > shannahickle > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:11 AM > snake bite > > > > Hi all > > I have a male patient, 57, otherwise pretty > healthy, who was bitten > by a rattlesnake around Sp 4 last Friday. He's > been in hospital > since then with swelling moving up to the groin. > They have had to > adminsiter at least 4 doses of anti-venin with no > real reduction in > swelling. They are keeping him until at least Wed. > at last report. > He is anxious to begin CM therapy to help > recovery. The swelling is > red and hot in places. To my understanding this is > heat toxin (?). I > find no formulas in Bensky that specifically talk > about snake bite > althought there are several single herbs which do > mention in. I was > wondering if anyone has any experience with this. > Of the formulas in > Bensky, Xian fang huo ming yin or Wu wei xiao du > yin seem most > likely to me. Should I add any specific snake bite > herbs like Bai > Wei or Bai hua she she cao? I don't have chuan > shan jia or zao jiao > ci--can these be left out or are there other > substitutes? Or should > we just use single snake bite herbs? How about > points? P6, Bl 40? > Others? Is it safe to needle the affected leg? > Bleeding? > > Thanks, Shanna > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into > this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > and adjust accordingly. > > If you , it takes a few days for the > messages to stop being delivered. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any > duplication outside the group requires prior > permission from the author. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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