Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Hi all, I'm treating a patient at the moment who has had a flu jab because he is asthmatic. He now claims to have a chest infection but no symptoms of the flu. Is it possible that the flu jab has hidden (or treated the symptoms of flu, but I doubt it) and its just moved straight down onto the chest? Has anyone noticed anything similar with their patients? Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Attilio, The viruses in the flu are killed by the vaccine and so you cannot get the flu from the flu jab. You can get some minor side effect such as soreness, swelling, low grade fever and aches and pains, which usually last one or two days. On vary rare occasions there can be a severe allergic reaction, but this is quite rare. However, the flu jab is only about 70% effective at preventing the illness completely and for most of the remaining 30% it tends to reduce the severity of the symptoms. You client could therefore have the flu but a much milder version than normally would have been expected had he not taken the vaccine. Of course the flu vaccine does not cure or eradicate the common cold and so it is also possible that your client simply has a chest infection. Kind regards Dermot - " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, November 25, 2004 12:04 AM Flu Jabs > > Hi all, > > I'm treating a patient at the moment who has had a flu jab because he is > asthmatic. He now claims to have a chest infection but no symptoms of the > flu. > > Is it possible that the flu jab has hidden (or treated the symptoms of > flu, > but I doubt it) and its just moved straight down onto the chest? Has > anyone > noticed anything similar with their patients? > > Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 By flu jab I assume you mean ³hypodermic injection². If we take a look at what is in the shot you may well get your answer. Vaccines typically have an assortment of microorganisms, which get killed off with the addition of a mercury compound and toxic byproducts of these organisms. A shot is a mixture of this stuff. Your patient may actually be suffering from the vaccine, itself. Many people who have received the shot have come down with the same thing they were vaccinated against. If we think about it the way it was administered, is not through the normal bodily pattern that creates immunity. His reaction to this is similar to that of a trapped pathogen (now in the lungs). I would recommend checking out some of Kiiko Matsumoto¹s ideas and treatment strategies at her website. I have found similar ideas helpful for patients with what are called (auto) immune reactions (such as viral congestive heart failure, RA, etc). I hope this helps. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac On 11/24/04 6:04 PM, " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm treating a patient at the moment who has had a flu jab because he is > asthmatic. He now claims to have a chest infection but no symptoms of the > flu. > > Is it possible that the flu jab has hidden (or treated the symptoms of flu, > but I doubt it) and its just moved straight down onto the chest? Has anyone > noticed anything similar with their patients? > > Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Dear Colleagues, This is my first post on this message board so just a quick intro. I originally trained in conventional medicine and now work exclusively with Chinese medicine after training in acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine. I run a practice with 3 other practitioners in West Cork, Ireland - plenty of experience with cold and damp! I agree with Mike about vaccines. I think of them as injecting the original pathogenic factor deep into the Blood, as Mike says, rather than it coming in through the usual levels from the exterior. Therefore, whooping cough(PhlegmHeat in the Lungs) vaccination causes Phlegm and Heat to appear deep in the body and frequently in the Lungs, of course. Flu vaccination tends to cause problems such as Heat in the Lung, Lingering Pathogenic Factor, Latent Heat, the syndromes we see in M.E. and the like. Regards, Stephen Gascoigne Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote: > > By flu jab I assume you mean ³hypodermic injection². If we take a look at > what is in the shot you may well get your answer. Vaccines typically have > an assortment of microorganisms, which get killed off with the addition of a > mercury compound and toxic byproducts of these organisms. A shot is a > mixture of this stuff. Your patient may actually be suffering from the > vaccine, itself. Many people who have received the shot have come down with > the same thing they were vaccinated against. If we think about it the way > it was administered, is not through the normal bodily pattern that creates > immunity. His reaction to this is similar to that of a trapped pathogen > (now in the lungs). I would recommend checking out some of Kiiko > Matsumoto¹s ideas and treatment strategies at her website. I have found > similar ideas helpful for patients with what are called (auto) immune > reactions (such as viral congestive heart failure, RA, etc). I hope this > helps. > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > On 11/24/04 6:04 PM, " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm treating a patient at the moment who has had a flu jab because he is > > asthmatic. He now claims to have a chest infection but no symptoms of the > > flu. > > > > Is it possible that the flu jab has hidden (or treated the symptoms of flu, > > but I doubt it) and its just moved straight down onto the chest? Has anyone > > noticed anything similar with their patients? > > > > Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 I have noticed flu jabs causing severe local reactions lasting many months (i.e. muscle pain at the injection site). I have also noticed an acute systemic reaction for up to two weeks after the jab - a sort of 'mini flu'. Sammy. - Dermot O'Connor Chinese Medicine Thursday, November 25, 2004 12:31 AM Re: Flu Jabs Attilio, The viruses in the flu are killed by the vaccine and so you cannot get the flu from the flu jab. You can get some minor side effect such as soreness, swelling, low grade fever and aches and pains, which usually last one or two days. On vary rare occasions there can be a severe allergic reaction, but this is quite rare. However, the flu jab is only about 70% effective at preventing the illness completely and for most of the remaining 30% it tends to reduce the severity of the symptoms. You client could therefore have the flu but a much milder version than normally would have been expected had he not taken the vaccine. Of course the flu vaccine does not cure or eradicate the common cold and so it is also possible that your client simply has a chest infection. Kind regards Dermot - " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, November 25, 2004 12:04 AM Flu Jabs > > Hi all, > > I'm treating a patient at the moment who has had a flu jab because he is > asthmatic. He now claims to have a chest infection but no symptoms of the > flu. > > Is it possible that the flu jab has hidden (or treated the symptoms of > flu, > but I doubt it) and its just moved straight down onto the chest? Has > anyone > noticed anything similar with their patients? > > Attilio http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 >hi, flu jabs contain : mercury, anti--freeze - all sorts of toxic stuff - they are poisonous stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Hi Stephen, Dermot, Mike and Phil Stephen, you mention below that the flu jab will cause phlegm and heat to appear deep in the body. Which level will it appear in? Many thanks Attilio Stephen Gascoigne [mail] 25 November 2004 11:49 Chinese Medicine Re: Flu Jabs Therefore, whooping cough(PhlegmHeat in the Lungs) vaccination causes Phlegm and Heat to appear deep in the body and frequently in the Lungs, of course. Flu vaccination tends to cause problems such as Heat in the Lung, Lingering Pathogenic Factor, Latent Heat, the syndromes we see in M.E. and the like. Regards, Stephen Gascoigne Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote: > > By flu jab I assume you mean ³hypodermic injection². If we take a look at > what is in the shot you may well get your answer. Vaccines typically have > an assortment of microorganisms, which get killed off with the addition of a > mercury compound and toxic byproducts of these organisms. A shot is a > mixture of this stuff. Your patient may actually be suffering from the > vaccine, itself. Many people who have received the shot have come down with > the same thing they were vaccinated against. If we think about it the way > it was administered, is not through the normal bodily pattern that creates > immunity. His reaction to this is similar to that of a trapped pathogen > (now in the lungs). I would recommend checking out some of Kiiko > Matsumoto¹s ideas and treatment strategies at her website. I have found > similar ideas helpful for patients with what are called (auto) immune > reactions (such as viral congestive heart failure, RA, etc). I hope this > helps. > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > On 11/24/04 6:04 PM, " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm treating a patient at the moment who has had a flu jab because he is > > asthmatic. He now claims to have a chest infection but no symptoms of the > > flu. > > > > Is it possible that the flu jab has hidden (or treated the symptoms of flu, > > but I doubt it) and its just moved straight down onto the chest? Has anyone > > noticed anything similar with their patients? > > > > Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Dear All, Absolutely, the original pathogenic factor plus a chemical brew that is inherently poisonous - interesting idea to give to babies. Whooping cough is the Phlegm and Heat pathogen. Flu will tend to cause Lingering Heat, Latent Heat, M.E. type syndromes. Look at what the original pathogen causes, particularly in its complications and that will give you what the vaccination does. In addition, as Stephen says, the toxicity of the adjuvants such as mercury have long-lasting effects on Liver and Kidneys as they are the organs particularly affected by heavy metals and other chemicals. Regards, Stephen Gascoigne Dr Stephen Gascoigne, The Clinic of , Michael Collins Road (Western Road), Clonakilty, Co. Cork, Ireland Tel: 023 33081 Fax: 023 33196 Email: info Website: http://www.drgascoigne.com Chinese Medicine , " stephen macallan " <stephenmacallan@u...> wrote: > > >hi, > flu jabs contain : mercury, anti--freeze - all sorts of toxic > stuff - they are poisonous > > stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 I don't particularly like flu jabs and generally guide patients away from them, but I found the following report supporting flu jabs interesting. Regards Susie Mortality Benefit of Repeat Flu Vaccination in Elders The benefits of flu vaccination are well known, but the additive benefits of yearly vaccination have been surprisingly difficult to quantitate. Researchers in the Netherlands analyzed mortality rates for 26,071 outpatients (age, 65 or older) according to how many yearly flu vaccinations they had from 1996 to 2002. Although a first vaccination reduced the mortality rate by a nonsignificant 10% compared with no vaccination, any revaccination reduced the mortality rate by a significant 24%. This effect was strongest during the flu season, and became insignificant during the summer. A nonsignificant trend suggested that mortality rates would decline further with each successive vaccination. Reduction in mortality rate with repeat vaccination was not significant among people who were 65 to 69, but became so among those who were 70 or older. Although the mortality benefit was most pronounced among people without chronic illnesses, missing an annual vaccination was associated with a surge in mortality rate only among those with chronic illnesses. When yearly vaccination was resumed, the mortality rate in this group again declined. Comment: The additive protection of yearly flu vaccination has been difficult to prove; this observational study cannot establish causality but does associate a cumulative survival advantage among healthy elders with yearly vaccinations. The findings also provide a timely validation of this year's flu vaccination policy: Patients with comorbidities who generally get flu vaccines should have priority in not missing a year's dose, whereas healthy people are unlikely to suffer serious consequences from going without vaccination for a year. -- Abigail Zuger, MD Published in Journal Watch November 26, 2004 Source Voordouw ACG et al. Annual revaccination against influenza and mortality risk in community-dwelling elderly persons. JAMA 2004 Nov 3; 292:2089-95. [Original article][Medline abstract][Download citation] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Dear Susie, There are lots of quotes about how flu vaccination is of benefit however, in my practice, I regularly see people who are adversely affected by it (as I am sure that other practitioners also see). This is likely, of course, as an EPF is being introducing into the deeper organs. I saw a woman recently who had never been well since a flu vaccination 6 years previously. She had suffered from a chronic cough with phlegm. She has now recovered with Chinese herbs. If you speak to people who work in nursing homes dealing with the elderly, they will tell you the truth about flu vaccination - it leads to acute chest problems, chronic ill-health and death - I have heard some people call it the 'euthanasia jab'. Regards, Stephen Gascoigne Chinese Medicine , " Susie Parkinson " <susie@p...> wrote: > > I don't particularly like flu jabs and generally guide patients away from > them, but I found the following report supporting flu jabs interesting. > Regards > Susie > > Mortality Benefit of Repeat Flu Vaccination in Elders > > The benefits of flu vaccination are well known, but the additive benefits > of yearly vaccination have been surprisingly difficult to quantitate. > Researchers in the Netherlands analyzed mortality rates for 26,071 > outpatients (age, 65 or older) according to how many yearly flu > vaccinations they had from 1996 to 2002. > > Although a first vaccination reduced the mortality rate by a nonsignificant > 10% compared with no vaccination, any revaccination reduced the mortality > rate by a significant 24%. This effect was strongest during the flu season, > and became insignificant during the summer. A nonsignificant trend > suggested that mortality rates would decline further with each successive > vaccination. Reduction in mortality rate with repeat vaccination was not > significant among people who were 65 to 69, but became so among those who > were 70 or older. > > Although the mortality benefit was most pronounced among people without > chronic illnesses, missing an annual vaccination was associated with a > surge in mortality rate only among those with chronic illnesses. When > yearly vaccination was resumed, the mortality rate in this group again > declined. > > Comment: The additive protection of yearly flu vaccination has been > difficult to prove; this observational study cannot establish causality but > does associate a cumulative survival advantage among healthy elders with > yearly vaccinations. The findings also provide a timely validation of this > year's flu vaccination policy: Patients with comorbidities who generally > get flu vaccines should have priority in not missing a year's dose, whereas > healthy people are unlikely to suffer serious consequences from going > without vaccination for a year. > > -- Abigail Zuger, MD > > Published in Journal Watch November 26, 2004 > > Source > > Voordouw ACG et al. Annual revaccination against influenza and mortality > risk in community-dwelling elderly persons. JAMA 2004 Nov 3; 292:2089-95. > [Original article][Medline abstract][Download citation] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Hi Stephen, How deep does it go? Which level, Wei, Qi, Yin or Xue? Kind regards Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM 07786198900 attiliodalberto <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com Stephen Gascoigne [mail] 29 November 2004 10:01 Chinese Medicine Re: Flu jabs Dear Susie, There are lots of quotes about how flu vaccination is of benefit however, in my practice, I regularly see people who are adversely affected by it (as I am sure that other practitioners also see). This is likely, of course, as an EPF is being introducing into the deeper organs. Stephen Gascoigne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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