Homeopathy, isopathy, herbs & acupuncture and vaccinosis (adverse reactions to vaccines)

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio & Mike, & All,

 

IMO, mass vaccination is a major cause if iatrogenic disease and

the evidence for vaccinosis (adverse reactions to vaccines) is

overwhelming. See: http://tinyurl.com/6wnk5

 

Vaccines that combine multiple antigens - such as MMR and multi-

vaccines used to prevent a range of tropical diseases - probably are

more dangerous than single-antigen vaccines. They simultaneously

give different (conflicting) signals to the immune system. IMO,

these conflicting signals " confuse " the critical defence system. The

outcome is an abnormal immune response with an unbelievably

wide range of possible clinical outcomes, functional and/or organic.

 

ANY vaccine can trigger immune and/or toxic responses at two

stages:

(a) EARLY reations, in the days or early weeks after vaccinatiion,

and

(b) LATE reactions, months, or years later.

 

(a) EARLY reactions, if they occur, are reasonably easy to handle.

Sometimes there are NO early reactions, or they are so minor as

to be ignored.

 

Obvious early reactions should be treated as they arise. For

example, a syndrome of pyrexia + flushed face + irritability in

children in the days after vaccination often responds fast to

homeopathic Belladonna. It probably would respond also to " Clear

Heat Herbs, or AP to Clear Heat (LI11, LI04, GB14, etc).

 

Having treated the early S & Ss, one should do a global vaccine

detox, as with high-potency homeopathic Thuja +/- mercury later

(see below). Alternatively, having made a Dx of the nature of the

S & Ss by TCM Pattern Differentiation, one could use herbs or AP to

address that Dx.

 

(b) LATE reactions to vaccines (months or years later) are more

problematic.

 

Even when such vaccinosis signs are serious, the subject often

does not link LATE REACTIONS to the vaccine until he/she

consults with a therapist who is experienced enough to ask the

relevant questions and make the link. These questions should

include:

Have you ever been vaccinated?

When, and with what vaccines (or against what diseases)?

Did you notice any early reactions after the vaccinations?

What were those reactions?, etc.

 

Vaccine reactions, especially LATE reactions, can trigger fatal

diseases (for example, by triggering Hodgkin's disease or other

cancers in a previously healthy person). They also may trigger long-

term serious disorders (such as autoimmune disease in adults, or

autism or ADD, ADHD in previously healthy children given the

MMR jabs).

 

IMO, many serious outcomes to vaccination are UNDIAGNOSED.

This is because the subject, his/her family, and the doctor/nurse

who gave the vaccines usually do NOT associate the serious LATE

sequel with its true cause/trigger - administration of the offending

vaccine.

 

High-potency Thuja is regarded as a great antidote to vaccinosis,

and can trigger a detox reaction (see below).

 

Some post-vaccination reactions are due TOXIC PRESERVATIVES

in the vaccine, rather than to the antigen in the vaccine. Thiomersol

(thiomersal) is especially dangerous, and some post-vaccination

sequels are due to adverse effects of the mercury.

 

If a vaccine contained mercury, treatment of adverse-reaction to

THAT vaccine may require use of isopathic mercury in addition to

Thuja, especially if Thuja helped but not enough.

 

In vaccinosis after vaccines containing mercury preservative, it is

usual to give a SINGLE dose of high-potency (say C30) Merc-sol,

or Merc-cor, or Thiomersol some weeks after an initial SINGLE

dose of Thuja (say C30) if the clinical response to Thuja is

unsatisfactory, or only partially successful.

 

The mercury remedy here is ISOPATHY [ " same cures same " ,

rather than homeopathy [ " like cures like " ].

 

NOTE: One should warn the client (or parents of a child) to expect

an aggravation/exaggeration. This reaction (healng crisis) occurs

within days of the SINGLE dose of high-potency Thuja or mercury,

and can last for 4-9 days or more. The aggravation can be severe

sometimes, and usually mirrors the S & Ss caused by the original

vaccine, in the reverse order of their original appearance ( " Hering's

Law).

 

Hering's Law of Cure [ http://tinyurl.com/5az5g ] states that if

disease S & Ss arise in a particular sequence over time, say S & Ss

A, B, C, D, E over a period of weeks, months or years, therapies

(esp homeopathy or isopathy) that treat the condition effectively

may exaggerate the S & Ss in the reverse order, i.e. E, D, C, B, A.

 

This aggravation (healing crisis) is regarded as a good prognostic

sign, because it indicates that the toxins have been mobilised and

are causing the body to react to their detoxification & excretion..

Once the aggravated S & Ss disappear, they usually do not return.

 

IMO, mass vaccination, or routine vaccination of every human and

animal that one can jab, is medically unjustifiable and potentially

dangerous for some recipients.

 

One should not tamper unnecessarily with the body's key defence

systems (the immune system). Also, mass vaccination has

become a major industry, whose primary motivation is self-centred

desire to increase vaccine sales and practice turnover. Vaccine

costs, and the fees charged by those who administer the vaccines,

have become ridiculously high.

 

One rarely meets doctors who, instead of banging in anti-flu

vaccines, advise their clients to consider immunoboosting herbal

remedies (like Echinacea, Qinghao, etc), antioxidant supplements

(herbal antioxidants, high-dose Vit C and/or Vit E + selenium),

autonomic conditioning (sauna twice/week), or an invigorating

exercise programme (walking more, Taiqi, etc).

 

That said, I support vaccination in certain situations. It can be very

valuable in disease prevention when SPECIFIC vaccines are given

to SPECIFIC groups KNOWN to be at moderate to high risk of a

SPECIFIC disease that has arisen in a SPECIFIC locality.

 

 

On the other hand, IMO, if there were a confirmed threat of

imminent terrorist attack of a named city with anthrax or botulinum

toxin, immediate mass vaccination of the inhabitants (even with

anthrax or botulinum vaccines that had not been tested fully) would

be completely justified.

 

There are some common-sense ideas on vaccination of children at:

http://www.dr-dom.com/childrens_immun.html

 

In conclusion, one should avoid routine mass vaccination, and/or

assess the potential risks and benefits BEFORE administering any

vaccine. The dangers of vaccinosis outweigh the potential benefits

of vaccination where the subjects are at low risk of exposure to the

disease. Subjects at moderate or high risk may need vaccination,

but alternative or complemtary means are available to boost their

immunity also, as discussed above.

 

IF vaccinosis occurs, it should be treated by complementary

medicine, including methods based on symptomatic Tx and/or or

Pattern-Differentiation. Homeopathic high-potency Thuja, followed

by high-potency mercury (if the vaccine contained mercury) should

be considered in all cases.

 

Where vaccines MUST be used (for example in subjects at high

risk) some homeopathic vets use Thuja ROUTINELY in the days

post-vaccination in an attempt to prevent subsequent sequels.

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

[Guest guest]

Phil,

 

There is a lot of speculation about the MMR vaccine and I think we both know

someone that may well have suffered at the hands of it. I also agree that

vaccines and antibiotics are handed out far to readily.

 

But the influenza vaccine is in many cases a life saver. Flu is a major

cause of death amongst the elderly, with up to 40,000 people dying each year

in the US and 4,000 in the UK from the flu virus alone. The evidence seems

strong to me that the flu vaccine

is effective at reducing the occurance and severity of flu symptoms and

consequently saves lives.

 

http://apha.confex.com/apha/131am/techprogram/paper_62148.htm

 

Would you still not recommend it for the elderly?

 

Kind regards

 

Dermot

 

 

 

-

" " <

<Chinese Medicine >; <VBMA

Cc: <Traditional Chinese Herbal Medicine >

Thursday, November 25, 2004 4:00 PM

Homeopathy, isopathy, herbs & acupuncture and vaccinosis

(adverse reactions to vaccines)

 

 

>

> Hi Attilio & Mike, & All,

>

> IMO, mass vaccination is a major cause if iatrogenic disease and

> the evidence for vaccinosis (adverse reactions to vaccines) is

> overwhelming. See: http://tinyurl.com/6wnk5

>

> Vaccines that combine multiple antigens - such as MMR and multi-

> vaccines used to prevent a range of tropical diseases - probably are

> more dangerous than single-antigen vaccines. They simultaneously

> give different (conflicting) signals to the immune system. IMO,

> these conflicting signals " confuse " the critical defence system. The

> outcome is an abnormal immune response with an unbelievably

> wide range of possible clinical outcomes, functional and/or organic.

>

> ANY vaccine can trigger immune and/or toxic responses at two

> stages:

> (a) EARLY reations, in the days or early weeks after vaccinatiion,

> and

> (b) LATE reactions, months, or years later.

>

> (a) EARLY reactions, if they occur, are reasonably easy to handle.

> Sometimes there are NO early reactions, or they are so minor as

> to be ignored.

>

> Obvious early reactions should be treated as they arise. For

> example, a syndrome of pyrexia + flushed face + irritability in

> children in the days after vaccination often responds fast to

> homeopathic Belladonna. It probably would respond also to " Clear

> Heat Herbs, or AP to Clear Heat (LI11, LI04, GB14, etc).

>

> Having treated the early S & Ss, one should do a global vaccine

> detox, as with high-potency homeopathic Thuja +/- mercury later

> (see below). Alternatively, having made a Dx of the nature of the

> S & Ss by TCM Pattern Differentiation, one could use herbs or AP to

> address that Dx.

>

> (b) LATE reactions to vaccines (months or years later) are more

> problematic.

>

> Even when such vaccinosis signs are serious, the subject often

> does not link LATE REACTIONS to the vaccine until he/she

> consults with a therapist who is experienced enough to ask the

> relevant questions and make the link. These questions should

> include:

> Have you ever been vaccinated?

> When, and with what vaccines (or against what diseases)?

> Did you notice any early reactions after the vaccinations?

> What were those reactions?, etc.

>

> Vaccine reactions, especially LATE reactions, can trigger fatal

> diseases (for example, by triggering Hodgkin's disease or other

> cancers in a previously healthy person). They also may trigger long-

> term serious disorders (such as autoimmune disease in adults, or

> autism or ADD, ADHD in previously healthy children given the

> MMR jabs).

>

> IMO, many serious outcomes to vaccination are UNDIAGNOSED.

> This is because the subject, his/her family, and the doctor/nurse

> who gave the vaccines usually do NOT associate the serious LATE

> sequel with its true cause/trigger - administration of the offending

> vaccine.

>

> High-potency Thuja is regarded as a great antidote to vaccinosis,

> and can trigger a detox reaction (see below).

>

> Some post-vaccination reactions are due TOXIC PRESERVATIVES

> in the vaccine, rather than to the antigen in the vaccine. Thiomersol

> (thiomersal) is especially dangerous, and some post-vaccination

> sequels are due to adverse effects of the mercury.

>

> If a vaccine contained mercury, treatment of adverse-reaction to

> THAT vaccine may require use of isopathic mercury in addition to

> Thuja, especially if Thuja helped but not enough.

>

> In vaccinosis after vaccines containing mercury preservative, it is

> usual to give a SINGLE dose of high-potency (say C30) Merc-sol,

> or Merc-cor, or Thiomersol some weeks after an initial SINGLE

> dose of Thuja (say C30) if the clinical response to Thuja is

> unsatisfactory, or only partially successful.

>

> The mercury remedy here is ISOPATHY [ " same cures same " ,

> rather than homeopathy [ " like cures like " ].

>

> NOTE: One should warn the client (or parents of a child) to expect

> an aggravation/exaggeration. This reaction (healng crisis) occurs

> within days of the SINGLE dose of high-potency Thuja or mercury,

> and can last for 4-9 days or more. The aggravation can be severe

> sometimes, and usually mirrors the S & Ss caused by the original

> vaccine, in the reverse order of their original appearance ( " Hering's

> Law).

>

> Hering's Law of Cure [ http://tinyurl.com/5az5g ] states that if

> disease S & Ss arise in a particular sequence over time, say S & Ss

> A, B, C, D, E over a period of weeks, months or years, therapies

> (esp homeopathy or isopathy) that treat the condition effectively

> may exaggerate the S & Ss in the reverse order, i.e. E, D, C, B, A.

>

> This aggravation (healing crisis) is regarded as a good prognostic

> sign, because it indicates that the toxins have been mobilised and

> are causing the body to react to their detoxification & excretion..

> Once the aggravated S & Ss disappear, they usually do not return.

>

> IMO, mass vaccination, or routine vaccination of every human and

> animal that one can jab, is medically unjustifiable and potentially

> dangerous for some recipients.

>

> One should not tamper unnecessarily with the body's key defence

> systems (the immune system). Also, mass vaccination has

> become a major industry, whose primary motivation is self-centred

> desire to increase vaccine sales and practice turnover. Vaccine

> costs, and the fees charged by those who administer the vaccines,

> have become ridiculously high.

>

> One rarely meets doctors who, instead of banging in anti-flu

> vaccines, advise their clients to consider immunoboosting herbal

> remedies (like Echinacea, Qinghao, etc), antioxidant supplements

> (herbal antioxidants, high-dose Vit C and/or Vit E + selenium),

> autonomic conditioning (sauna twice/week), or an invigorating

> exercise programme (walking more, Taiqi, etc).

>

> That said, I support vaccination in certain situations. It can be very

> valuable in disease prevention when SPECIFIC vaccines are given

> to SPECIFIC groups KNOWN to be at moderate to high risk of a

> SPECIFIC disease that has arisen in a SPECIFIC locality.

>

>

> On the other hand, IMO, if there were a confirmed threat of

> imminent terrorist attack of a named city with anthrax or botulinum

> toxin, immediate mass vaccination of the inhabitants (even with

> anthrax or botulinum vaccines that had not been tested fully) would

> be completely justified.

>

> There are some common-sense ideas on vaccination of children at:

> http://www.dr-dom.com/childrens_immun.html

>

> In conclusion, one should avoid routine mass vaccination, and/or

> assess the potential risks and benefits BEFORE administering any

> vaccine. The dangers of vaccinosis outweigh the potential benefits

> of vaccination where the subjects are at low risk of exposure to the

> disease. Subjects at moderate or high risk may need vaccination,

> but alternative or complemtary means are available to boost their

> immunity also, as discussed above.

>

> IF vaccinosis occurs, it should be treated by complementary

> medicine, including methods based on symptomatic Tx and/or or

> Pattern-Differentiation. Homeopathic high-potency Thuja, followed

> by high-potency mercury (if the vaccine contained mercury) should

> be considered in all cases.

>

> Where vaccines MUST be used (for example in subjects at high

> risk) some homeopathic vets use Thuja ROUTINELY in the days

> post-vaccination in an attempt to prevent subsequent sequels.

> Best regards,

>

> Email: <

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I think there is another level of protection - that the chain of spread

or dispersal in the population is broken up by reducing the vulnerability

of the weak points in the population.

 

A population level protection that breaks up chain reactions.

 

Dermot O'Connor wrote:

> There is a lot of speculation about the MMR vaccine and I think we both know

> someone that may well have suffered at the hands of it. ...

> the flu vaccine is effective at reducing the occurance and severity of flu

symptoms and

> consequently saves lives.

 

>>IMO, many serious outcomes to vaccination are UNDIAGNOSED

 

It appears that the adverse reactions to our local vaccine is on the order

of 30-50% of people, and it isn't well-matched to this year's flu crop,

yet the top level promoters have no hesitation in promoting it.

 

The most favourable explanation is that they are also overviewing and

keeping a lid on pandemics.

 

bye,

vic

--

Vic Williams (604)433-5189 -- www.strategicprocess.com -- www.spiralwild.com

Empowering personal growth. Developing Personal & Group Ecology.

Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any

good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats. --Howard Aiken

[Guest guest]

Good explanation of things. To this I would add that in the states more and

more

scientific research is corroborating a direct link to illnesses. Dr. Geier

(geneticist

and former researcher at the CDC) has been an outspoken opponent of mass

vaccinations iwthout further study on the contents of said. His work has shown

that thimerosol is the main culprit in ADD/ADHD and shown that this mercuric c

ompond affects young males more so do to a reaction with testosterone.

Additionally concerning is that young children receive several hundred times the

EPA exposure rate considered safe for mercury. Mercury is a neuro toxin and a

ccumulates in the brain/nervous system slowing down function and development. A

nother alarming concern is that Dr. Geier had tested so-called single

non-thimerosol v

accines for mercury. Guess what, the labels may have said no mercury but the

test s

aid yes there was. We are having trouble with truthful labelling of these

products. T

his just adds another question to the whole argument about whether to do or not.

T

he science community has not studied how to make a stronger immune system by p

roperly looking at nutrients and their effects into maintianing health. One

last c

omment, vaccines have not been tested for long term effect and connections to

adult i

llnesses. The premise that they work is questionable as historical data have

shown t

ime and again that epidemics have come and gone before a vaccine was created.

This i

s a natural curve in the life of the organism and shows a decline after we adapt

to it.

 

 

 

, " " <@e...> w

rote:

> Hi Attilio & Mike, & All,

>

> IMO, mass vaccination is a major cause if iatrogenic disease and

> the evidence for vaccinosis (adverse reactions to vaccines) is

> overwhelming. See: http://tinyurl.com/6wnk5

>

> Vaccines that combine multiple antigens - such as MMR and multi-

> vaccines used to prevent a range of tropical diseases - probably are

> more dangerous than single-antigen vaccines. They simultaneously

> give different (conflicting) signals to the immune system. IMO,

> these conflicting signals " confuse " the critical defence system. The

> outcome is an abnormal immune response with an unbelievably

> wide range of possible clinical outcomes, functional and/or organic.

>

> ANY vaccine can trigger immune and/or toxic responses at two

> stages:

> (a) EARLY reations, in the days or early weeks after vaccinatiion,

> and

> (b) LATE reactions, months, or years later.

>

> (a) EARLY reactions, if they occur, are reasonably easy to handle.

> Sometimes there are NO early reactions, or they are so minor as

> to be ignored.

>

> Obvious early reactions should be treated as they arise. For

> example, a syndrome of pyrexia + flushed face + irritability in

> children in the days after vaccination often responds fast to

> homeopathic Belladonna. It probably would respond also to " Clear

> Heat Herbs, or AP to Clear Heat (LI11, LI04, GB14, etc).

>

> Having treated the early S & Ss, one should do a global vaccine

> detox, as with high-potency homeopathic Thuja +/- mercury later

> (see below). Alternatively, having made a Dx of the nature of the

> S & Ss by TCM Pattern Differentiation, one could use herbs or AP to

> address that Dx.

>

> (b) LATE reactions to vaccines (months or years later) are more

> problematic.

>

> Even when such vaccinosis signs are serious, the subject often

> does not link LATE REACTIONS to the vaccine until he/she

> consults with a therapist who is experienced enough to ask the

> relevant questions and make the link. These questions should

> include:

> Have you ever been vaccinated?

> When, and with what vaccines (or against what diseases)?

> Did you notice any early reactions after the vaccinations?

> What were those reactions?, etc.

>

> Vaccine reactions, especially LATE reactions, can trigger fatal

> diseases (for example, by triggering Hodgkin's disease or other

> cancers in a previously healthy person). They also may trigger long-

> term serious disorders (such as autoimmune disease in adults, or

> autism or ADD, ADHD in previously healthy children given the

> MMR jabs).

>

> IMO, many serious outcomes to vaccination are UNDIAGNOSED.

> This is because the subject, his/her family, and the doctor/nurse

> who gave the vaccines usually do NOT associate the serious LATE

> sequel with its true cause/trigger - administration of the offending

> vaccine.

>

> High-potency Thuja is regarded as a great antidote to vaccinosis,

> and can trigger a detox reaction (see below).

>

> Some post-vaccination reactions are due TOXIC PRESERVATIVES

> in the vaccine, rather than to the antigen in the vaccine. Thiomersol

> (thiomersal) is especially dangerous, and some post-vaccination

> sequels are due to adverse effects of the mercury.

>

> If a vaccine contained mercury, treatment of adverse-reaction to

> THAT vaccine may require use of isopathic mercury in addition to

> Thuja, especially if Thuja helped but not enough.

>

> In vaccinosis after vaccines containing mercury preservative, it is

> usual to give a SINGLE dose of high-potency (say C30) Merc-sol,

> or Merc-cor, or Thiomersol some weeks after an initial SINGLE

> dose of Thuja (say C30) if the clinical response to Thuja is

> unsatisfactory, or only partially successful.

>

> The mercury remedy here is ISOPATHY [ " same cures same " ,

> rather than homeopathy [ " like cures like " ].

>

> NOTE: One should warn the client (or parents of a child) to expect

> an aggravation/exaggeration. This reaction (healng crisis) occurs

> within days of the SINGLE dose of high-potency Thuja or mercury,

> and can last for 4-9 days or more. The aggravation can be severe

> sometimes, and usually mirrors the S & Ss caused by the original

> vaccine, in the reverse order of their original appearance ( " Hering's

> Law).

>

> Hering's Law of Cure [ http://tinyurl.com/5az5g ] states that if

> disease S & Ss arise in a particular sequence over time, say S & Ss

> A, B, C, D, E over a period of weeks, months or years, therapies

> (esp homeopathy or isopathy) that treat the condition effectively

> may exaggerate the S & Ss in the reverse order, i.e. E, D, C, B, A.

>

> This aggravation (healing crisis) is regarded as a good prognostic

> sign, because it indicates that the toxins have been mobilised and

> are causing the body to react to their detoxification & excretion..

> Once the aggravated S & Ss disappear, they usually do not return.

>

> IMO, mass vaccination, or routine vaccination of every human and

> animal that one can jab, is medically unjustifiable and potentially

> dangerous for some recipients.

>

> One should not tamper unnecessarily with the body's key defence

> systems (the immune system). Also, mass vaccination has

> become a major industry, whose primary motivation is self-centred

> desire to increase vaccine sales and practice turnover. Vaccine

> costs, and the fees charged by those who administer the vaccines,

> have become ridiculously high.

>

> One rarely meets doctors who, instead of banging in anti-flu

> vaccines, advise their clients to consider immunoboosting herbal

> remedies (like Echinacea, Qinghao, etc), antioxidant supplements

> (herbal antioxidants, high-dose Vit C and/or Vit E + selenium),

> autonomic conditioning (sauna twice/week), or an invigorating

> exercise programme (walking more, Taiqi, etc).

>

> That said, I support vaccination in certain situations. It can be very

> valuable in disease prevention when SPECIFIC vaccines are given

> to SPECIFIC groups KNOWN to be at moderate to high risk of a

> SPECIFIC disease that has arisen in a SPECIFIC locality.

>

>

> On the other hand, IMO, if there were a confirmed threat of

> imminent terrorist attack of a named city with anthrax or botulinum

> toxin, immediate mass vaccination of the inhabitants (even with

> anthrax or botulinum vaccines that had not been tested fully) would

> be completely justified.

>

> There are some common-sense ideas on vaccination of children at:

> http://www.dr-dom.com/childrens_immun.html

>

> In conclusion, one should avoid routine mass vaccination, and/or

> assess the potential risks and benefits BEFORE administering any

> vaccine. The dangers of vaccinosis outweigh the potential benefits

> of vaccination where the subjects are at low risk of exposure to the

> disease. Subjects at moderate or high risk may need vaccination,

> but alternative or complemtary means are available to boost their

> immunity also, as discussed above.

>

> IF vaccinosis occurs, it should be treated by complementary

> medicine, including methods based on symptomatic Tx and/or or

> Pattern-Differentiation. Homeopathic high-potency Thuja, followed

> by high-potency mercury (if the vaccine contained mercury) should

> be considered in all cases.

>

> Where vaccines MUST be used (for example in subjects at high

> risk) some homeopathic vets use Thuja ROUTINELY in the days

> post-vaccination in an attempt to prevent subsequent sequels.

> Best regards,

>

> Email: <@e...>

>

> WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

>

> HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

> WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

>

> Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man

doing it "

[Guest guest]

At 06:59 PM 11/25/04 -0000, you wrote:

>

>Phil,

>

>There is a lot of speculation about the MMR vaccine and I think we both know

>someone that may well have suffered at the hands of it. I also agree that

>vaccines and antibiotics are handed out far to readily.

>

>But the influenza vaccine is in many cases a life saver. Flu is a major

>cause of death amongst the elderly, with up to 40,000 people dying each year

>in the US and 4,000 in the UK from the flu virus alone. The evidence seems

>strong to me that the flu vaccine

>is effective at reducing the occurance and severity of flu symptoms and

>consequently saves lives.

>

>http://apha.confex.com/apha/131am/techprogram/paper_62148.htm

>

>Would you still not recommend it for the elderly?

 

Many more people survive flu virus than those who die. Those that die have

a constitutional or situational vulnerability. How can one, in a context of

TCM/CM's focus on differential diagnosis as pre-requisite to administration

of medicine (which always carries risk), argue for blanket prescription,

e.g. " for the elderly " ? Are not viruses as well as vaccines amenable to

analysis according to the energetic parameters of CM, and hence more

effectively diagnosed/applied, and with less risk?

 

It can be argued that it's easier just to vaccinate 100,000,000 people by

the simple criteria popularly used, than to try to evaluate all of them

more precisely. Then again, research could be directed at finding a TCM

diagnostic framework which would simplify the task of screening candidates

for vaccination. I would think.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Dermot

Vaccines are vaccines no matter what is in them eg MMR DPT or various

strains of Flu viruses.

They are as Stephen Gascoigne said full of alloys mercuries and even

Fomaldehyde!

They weaken the vital force or Prana as they effectively antagonise it.

Healing as Samuel Hahnemann the father of Homoeopathy said should be

permanent and Gentle and vaccinations are definatley not gentle.

I am a Homoeopath and an acupuncturist and I have seen many many case

especially in children (who should have by nature strong vital forces)

develop inveterate conditons ie: eczema asthma arising as a result of

vaccination.

I sometimes have to give an isode of the causitive vaccination to help

claear the ill effects sometimes along with Silica Thuja Sulphur or their

constitutional remedy.

I had an elderly gentleman full of life and enthusiasm come down with a

strange set of symptoms ie: subluxation of his patella's and muscular

atrophy following the flu vaccine.

It is too much at the one time to give small babies 5 different types of

vaccines.Also vaccines are too crude they have not been dynamised like

homoeopathic remedies which coerce the body's natural curative rhythm.

Sometimes I will give a homoeopathic remedy made from the differnt vaccines,

even the flu vaccine which the homoeopathic pharmacies make up every autumn

from that same years vaccine on the market. It is a safer alternative.

ALSO WE SHOULD BE WORKING MORE IN KEEPING THE QI FLOWING AND THE YINS AND

THE YANGS BALANCED IN ORDER TO PREVENT ILLNESS INSTEAD OF GOING ALLOPATHIC

AND VACCINATING.

BEST WISHES

DEIRDRE

 

-

Dermot O'Connor <dermot

<Chinese Medicine >

Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:59 PM

Re: Homeopathy, isopathy, herbs & acupuncture and vaccinosis

(adverse reactions to vaccines)

 

 

>

>

> Phil,

>

> There is a lot of speculation about the MMR vaccine and I think we both

know

> someone that may well have suffered at the hands of it. I also agree that

> vaccines and antibiotics are handed out far to readily.

>

> But the influenza vaccine is in many cases a life saver. Flu is a major

> cause of death amongst the elderly, with up to 40,000 people dying each

year

> in the US and 4,000 in the UK from the flu virus alone. The evidence

seems

> strong to me that the flu vaccine

> is effective at reducing the occurance and severity of flu symptoms and

> consequently saves lives.

>

> http://apha.confex.com/apha/131am/techprogram/paper_62148.htm

>

> Would you still not recommend it for the elderly?

>

> Kind regards

>

> Dermot

>

>

>

> -

> " " <

> <Chinese Medicine >; <VBMA

> Cc: <Traditional Chinese Herbal Medicine >

> Thursday, November 25, 2004 4:00 PM

> Homeopathy, isopathy, herbs & acupuncture and vaccinosis

> (adverse reactions to vaccines)

>

>

> >

> > Hi Attilio & Mike, & All,

> >

> > IMO, mass vaccination is a major cause if iatrogenic disease and

> > the evidence for vaccinosis (adverse reactions to vaccines) is

> > overwhelming. See: http://tinyurl.com/6wnk5

> >

> > Vaccines that combine multiple antigens - such as MMR and multi-

> > vaccines used to prevent a range of tropical diseases - probably are

> > more dangerous than single-antigen vaccines. They simultaneously

> > give different (conflicting) signals to the immune system. IMO,

> > these conflicting signals " confuse " the critical defence system. The

> > outcome is an abnormal immune response with an unbelievably

> > wide range of possible clinical outcomes, functional and/or organic.

> >

> > ANY vaccine can trigger immune and/or toxic responses at two

> > stages:

> > (a) EARLY reations, in the days or early weeks after vaccinatiion,

> > and

> > (b) LATE reactions, months, or years later.

> >

> > (a) EARLY reactions, if they occur, are reasonably easy to handle.

> > Sometimes there are NO early reactions, or they are so minor as

> > to be ignored.

> >

> > Obvious early reactions should be treated as they arise. For

> > example, a syndrome of pyrexia + flushed face + irritability in

> > children in the days after vaccination often responds fast to

> > homeopathic Belladonna. It probably would respond also to " Clear

> > Heat Herbs, or AP to Clear Heat (LI11, LI04, GB14, etc).

> >

> > Having treated the early S & Ss, one should do a global vaccine

> > detox, as with high-potency homeopathic Thuja +/- mercury later

> > (see below). Alternatively, having made a Dx of the nature of the

> > S & Ss by TCM Pattern Differentiation, one could use herbs or AP to

> > address that Dx.

> >

> > (b) LATE reactions to vaccines (months or years later) are more

> > problematic.

> >

> > Even when such vaccinosis signs are serious, the subject often

> > does not link LATE REACTIONS to the vaccine until he/she

> > consults with a therapist who is experienced enough to ask the

> > relevant questions and make the link. These questions should

> > include:

> > Have you ever been vaccinated?

> > When, and with what vaccines (or against what diseases)?

> > Did you notice any early reactions after the vaccinations?

> > What were those reactions?, etc.

> >

> > Vaccine reactions, especially LATE reactions, can trigger fatal

> > diseases (for example, by triggering Hodgkin's disease or other

> > cancers in a previously healthy person). They also may trigger long-

> > term serious disorders (such as autoimmune disease in adults, or

> > autism or ADD, ADHD in previously healthy children given the

> > MMR jabs).

> >

> > IMO, many serious outcomes to vaccination are UNDIAGNOSED.

> > This is because the subject, his/her family, and the doctor/nurse

> > who gave the vaccines usually do NOT associate the serious LATE

> > sequel with its true cause/trigger - administration of the offending

> > vaccine.

> >

> > High-potency Thuja is regarded as a great antidote to vaccinosis,

> > and can trigger a detox reaction (see below).

> >

> > Some post-vaccination reactions are due TOXIC PRESERVATIVES

> > in the vaccine, rather than to the antigen in the vaccine. Thiomersol

> > (thiomersal) is especially dangerous, and some post-vaccination

> > sequels are due to adverse effects of the mercury.

> >

> > If a vaccine contained mercury, treatment of adverse-reaction to

> > THAT vaccine may require use of isopathic mercury in addition to

> > Thuja, especially if Thuja helped but not enough.

> >

> > In vaccinosis after vaccines containing mercury preservative, it is

> > usual to give a SINGLE dose of high-potency (say C30) Merc-sol,

> > or Merc-cor, or Thiomersol some weeks after an initial SINGLE

> > dose of Thuja (say C30) if the clinical response to Thuja is

> > unsatisfactory, or only partially successful.

> >

> > The mercury remedy here is ISOPATHY [ " same cures same " ,

> > rather than homeopathy [ " like cures like " ].

> >

> > NOTE: One should warn the client (or parents of a child) to expect

> > an aggravation/exaggeration. This reaction (healng crisis) occurs

> > within days of the SINGLE dose of high-potency Thuja or mercury,

> > and can last for 4-9 days or more. The aggravation can be severe

> > sometimes, and usually mirrors the S & Ss caused by the original

> > vaccine, in the reverse order of their original appearance ( " Hering's

> > Law).

> >

> > Hering's Law of Cure [ http://tinyurl.com/5az5g ] states that if

> > disease S & Ss arise in a particular sequence over time, say S & Ss

> > A, B, C, D, E over a period of weeks, months or years, therapies

> > (esp homeopathy or isopathy) that treat the condition effectively

> > may exaggerate the S & Ss in the reverse order, i.e. E, D, C, B, A.

> >

> > This aggravation (healing crisis) is regarded as a good prognostic

> > sign, because it indicates that the toxins have been mobilised and

> > are causing the body to react to their detoxification & excretion..

> > Once the aggravated S & Ss disappear, they usually do not return.

> >

> > IMO, mass vaccination, or routine vaccination of every human and

> > animal that one can jab, is medically unjustifiable and potentially

> > dangerous for some recipients.

> >

> > One should not tamper unnecessarily with the body's key defence

> > systems (the immune system). Also, mass vaccination has

> > become a major industry, whose primary motivation is self-centred

> > desire to increase vaccine sales and practice turnover. Vaccine

> > costs, and the fees charged by those who administer the vaccines,

> > have become ridiculously high.

> >

> > One rarely meets doctors who, instead of banging in anti-flu

> > vaccines, advise their clients to consider immunoboosting herbal

> > remedies (like Echinacea, Qinghao, etc), antioxidant supplements

> > (herbal antioxidants, high-dose Vit C and/or Vit E + selenium),

> > autonomic conditioning (sauna twice/week), or an invigorating

> > exercise programme (walking more, Taiqi, etc).

> >

> > That said, I support vaccination in certain situations. It can be very

> > valuable in disease prevention when SPECIFIC vaccines are given

> > to SPECIFIC groups KNOWN to be at moderate to high risk of a

> > SPECIFIC disease that has arisen in a SPECIFIC locality.

> >

> >

> > On the other hand, IMO, if there were a confirmed threat of

> > imminent terrorist attack of a named city with anthrax or botulinum

> > toxin, immediate mass vaccination of the inhabitants (even with

> > anthrax or botulinum vaccines that had not been tested fully) would

> > be completely justified.

> >

> > There are some common-sense ideas on vaccination of children at:

> > http://www.dr-dom.com/childrens_immun.html

> >

> > In conclusion, one should avoid routine mass vaccination, and/or

> > assess the potential risks and benefits BEFORE administering any

> > vaccine. The dangers of vaccinosis outweigh the potential benefits

> > of vaccination where the subjects are at low risk of exposure to the

> > disease. Subjects at moderate or high risk may need vaccination,

> > but alternative or complemtary means are available to boost their

> > immunity also, as discussed above.

> >

> > IF vaccinosis occurs, it should be treated by complementary

> > medicine, including methods based on symptomatic Tx and/or or

> > Pattern-Differentiation. Homeopathic high-potency Thuja, followed

> > by high-potency mercury (if the vaccine contained mercury) should

> > be considered in all cases.

> >

> > Where vaccines MUST be used (for example in subjects at high

> > risk) some homeopathic vets use Thuja ROUTINELY in the days

> > post-vaccination in an attempt to prevent subsequent sequels.

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Email: <

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

>

>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

> If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Deirdre,

 

Are the Irish taking over the forum??? :-)

 

Just to repeat what I said to Phil.....

 

" There is a lot of speculation about the MMR vaccine and I think we both

know someone that may well have suffered at the hands of it. I also agree

that

vaccines and antibiotics are handed out far too readily. "

 

So I agree that mass vaccination is highly debatable. However this blanket

rejection of

all vaccination as being (on balance) harmful, no matter what the

situation....I just don't buy into it. I'm sure that you will all remember

a time when tuberculosis was a mass killer. I'm sure you are also aware of

the millions dying in Africa because they don't have access

to anti-retroviral or anti-AIDS drugs. Vaccination like most medical

interventions has its pluses and minuses.

 

The earlier suggestion that Chinese Medical practitioners would screen

elderly candidates to determine who would be

suitable for flu vaccination is well meaning, but just not practical and

will never happen in the real world.

 

Yes, decisions are made that are wrong and accepted medical opinion has and

will be misjudged on a number of issues. But the vast majority of Western

Medical practitioners

are genuine in what they do. The world's rising life-expectancy rates and

collapsing infant mortality rates

bears testament to some of the breakthroughs of Western Medical Science (as

well as other factors).

 

I also agree on the troublesome use of mercury and toxic metals in

pharacuticals and Chinese herbal medicines.

 

I would comment more on Homeopathy but I understand that it, like Qigong and

Tuina, is out of scope of this TCM forum.

 

Kind regards

 

Dermot

 

 

 

 

 

-

" Deirdre Mackesy " <cotcm

<Chinese Medicine >

Saturday, November 27, 2004 12:29 AM

Re: Homeopathy, isopathy, herbs & acupuncture and vaccinosis

(adverse reactions to vaccines)

 

 

>

> Dear Dermot

> Vaccines are vaccines no matter what is in them eg MMR DPT or various

> strains of Flu viruses.

> They are as Stephen Gascoigne said full of alloys mercuries and even

> Fomaldehyde!

> They weaken the vital force or Prana as they effectively antagonise it.

> Healing as Samuel Hahnemann the father of Homoeopathy said should be

> permanent and Gentle and vaccinations are definatley not gentle.

> I am a Homoeopath and an acupuncturist and I have seen many many case

> especially in children (who should have by nature strong vital forces)

> develop inveterate conditons ie: eczema asthma arising as a result of

> vaccination.

> I sometimes have to give an isode of the causitive vaccination to help

> claear the ill effects sometimes along with Silica Thuja Sulphur or

> their

> constitutional remedy.

> I had an elderly gentleman full of life and enthusiasm come down with a

> strange set of symptoms ie: subluxation of his patella's and muscular

> atrophy following the flu vaccine.

> It is too much at the one time to give small babies 5 different types of

> vaccines.Also vaccines are too crude they have not been dynamised like

> homoeopathic remedies which coerce the body's natural curative rhythm.

> Sometimes I will give a homoeopathic remedy made from the differnt

> vaccines,

> even the flu vaccine which the homoeopathic pharmacies make up every

> autumn

> from that same years vaccine on the market. It is a safer alternative.

> ALSO WE SHOULD BE WORKING MORE IN KEEPING THE QI FLOWING AND THE YINS AND

> THE YANGS BALANCED IN ORDER TO PREVENT ILLNESS INSTEAD OF GOING

> ALLOPATHIC

> AND VACCINATING.

> BEST WISHES

> DEIRDRE

>

 

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

> requires prior permission from the author.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

Many herbs are collected weeds, often in the area of and or downwind

of dirty industrial processes. It seems that plants which can survive

such conditions, invaders as well as strong competitors, are more

likely to have good herbal qualities. Unfortunately they also uptake

toxic materials (raising questions(answers for some) about the source

of the efficacy).

 

All of which means that alchemical mixing of toxic metal into the herbal

preparation isn't the only source of such materials.

 

Dermot O'Connor wrote:

> I also agree on the troublesome use of mercury and toxic metals in

> pharacuticals and Chinese herbal medicines.

>

We're wary of toxic inclusions even when we grind and mix our own herbs.

 

And we see the reverse in things like mass market potatoes which lack

a good nutrient mix when compared to potatoes grown with richer soil

fertilizer mixes.

 

bye,

 

vic

--

Vic Williams (604)433-5189 -- www.strategicprocess.com -- www.spiralwild.com

Empowering personal growth. Developing Personal & Group Ecology.

" The so-called fat epidemic is a product of upper-class white hysteria

that demonizes everyone who does not fit a certain body type. " -- Lakshmi

Chaudhry

[Guest guest]

Dermot. Those achievements are directly attributable to (1) hygiene and (2)

distribution (food & services) _Not medicine_

The United States is the recognized leader in Western Medicine. Yet fails

miserable in both categories quoted below.

Both Europe and the U.S. fail in primitive " plagues " . For example Chicago @

1998 in less than 60 days 500 people die of heat stroke. In Europe, a few

years ago same thing. Heat. Plagues like SARS continue to run their course.

Vaccines, the best well intentioned doctors, fail in U.S. inner city

hospitals both in birth rates and elderly care.

Sanitary conditions: good food good water equals good health. Add good

thoughts and you have the Nei Jing. As the Nei jing says intervention is

necessary but not exalted.

 

Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA.

 

 

 

 

The world's rising life-expectancy rates and

collapsing infant mortality rates

bears testament to some of the breakthroughs of Western Medical Science (as

well as other factors).

 

<< snipped>> ....The world's rising life-expectancy rates and collapsing

infant mortality rates bears testament to some of the breakthroughs of

Western Medical Science. ...<< snipped>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed and All,

 

Please note that this is going off topic into the area of wm disadvantages,

which don't really get us anywhere.

 

Kind regards

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM

07786198900

attiliodalberto

<http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com

 

 

Ed Kasper LAc [eddy]

28 November 2004 18:58

Chinese Medicine

RE: Homeopathy, isopathy, herbs & acupuncture and vaccinosis

(adverse reactions to vaccines)

 

 

 

Dermot. Those achievements are directly attributable to (1) hygiene and (2)

distribution (food & services) _Not medicine_

The United States is the recognized leader in Western Medicine. Yet fails

miserable in both categories quoted below.

Both Europe and the U.S. fail in primitive " plagues " . For example Chicago @

1998 in less than 60 days 500 people die of heat stroke. In Europe, a few

years ago same thing. Heat. Plagues like SARS continue to run their course.

Vaccines, the best well intentioned doctors, fail in U.S. inner city

hospitals both in birth rates and elderly care.

Sanitary conditions: good food good water equals good health. Add good

thoughts and you have the Nei Jing. As the Nei jing says intervention is

necessary but not exalted.

 

Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA.

 

 

 

 

The world's rising life-expectancy rates and

collapsing infant mortality rates

bears testament to some of the breakthroughs of Western Medical Science (as

well as other factors).

 

<< snipped>> ....The world's rising life-expectancy rates and collapsing

infant mortality rates bears testament to some of the breakthroughs of

Western Medical Science. ...<< snipped>>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I also note how Ed conveniently and misleadingly snipped my quotation

short......but nevermind

 

But I agree with Attilio, this argument will just go around in circles.

 

Kind regards

 

Dermot

 

 

 

-

" Ed Kasper LAc " <eddy

<Chinese Medicine >

Sunday, November 28, 2004 6:58 PM

RE: Homeopathy, isopathy, herbs & acupuncture and vaccinosis

(adverse reactions to vaccines)

 

 

>

>

> Dermot. Those achievements are directly attributable to (1) hygiene and

> (2)

> distribution (food & services) _Not medicine_

> The United States is the recognized leader in Western Medicine. Yet fails

> miserable in both categories quoted below.

> Both Europe and the U.S. fail in primitive " plagues " . For example Chicago

> @

> 1998 in less than 60 days 500 people die of heat stroke. In Europe, a few

> years ago same thing. Heat. Plagues like SARS continue to run their

> course.

> Vaccines, the best well intentioned doctors, fail in U.S. inner city

> hospitals both in birth rates and elderly care.

> Sanitary conditions: good food good water equals good health. Add good

> thoughts and you have the Nei Jing. As the Nei jing says intervention is

> necessary but not exalted.

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA.

>

>

>

>

> The world's rising life-expectancy rates and

> collapsing infant mortality rates

> bears testament to some of the breakthroughs of Western Medical Science

> (as

> well as other factors).

>

> << snipped>> ....The world's rising life-expectancy rates and collapsing

> infant mortality rates bears testament to some of the breakthroughs of

> Western Medical Science. ...<< snipped>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

> http://babel.altavista.com/

>

>

> and adjust

> accordingly.

>

> If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

> delivered.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

> requires prior permission from the author.

>