good cheap laser

[Guest guest]

Hello, I am looking into lasers and there seems to be alot of

information scattered around. I've read Margaret Naeser's article

among many others. I was hoping to get some direct feedback from

someone with experience. And are they all so expensive?

Thanx, Cameron

[Guest guest]

Hi Cameron,

 

Cameron Hollister wrote:

> Hello, I am looking into lasers and there seems to be alot of info

> scattered around. I've read Margaret Naeser's article among many

> others. I was hoping to get some direct feedback from someone with

> experience. And are they all so expensive? Thanx, Cameron

 

Lasers vary from toys (like the pointer-lasers that one can buy for a few

dollars) to seriously powerful emitters with cluster-probes that can

deliver up to 400-700 mW output power.

 

Although one can buy cheaper single-probe models, top power cluster-

probes and top technology cost a lot - up to 6000 Euros.

 

I will not pay that kind of money for an instrument that I doubt will give

better clinical results than simple acupuncture. Here is an excerpt from

a mail to a vet colleague on the topic:

 

Kevin (an equine vet in USA) wrote:

> Hello Phill, I use the laser once in a while. Nothing beats a needle.

> When I was taking the IVAS course in Philadelphia in the Winter of

> 1988, Allen Schoen and a few others got up and repeatedly talked about

> cases they treated with their laser (Respond) and how easy it was -

> especially when the animal (small) did not want a needle put in that

> point, but they always would come across a case that would not respond

> to the laser so they used needles and finally got a good response.

> During the break I went up to John Limehouse and said, I'm getting the

> impression that when the laser does not work, then you go to the

> needle - so the needle must be stronger/better???? His response was

> the same " Nothing beats a needle " .

 

Kevin, many thanks for that. With few exceptions, that is my experience

also.

 

> Obviously lasers have their place, but in the end the needle (if you

> can get it in) will end up treating more cases successfully. Kevin

 

I agree. However, some people are more interested in the DIY market

(sports injuries, horse handlers, etc) than in selling to acupuncturists.

Most DIY users will know NOTHING about acupuncture and will use

laser as a topical (local) Tx on painful, ulcerated or otherwise

dysfunctional areas.

 

For some of the top lasers, see:

 

http://www.horseridermedics.co.uk/physiolaser_olympic.html

http://www.horseridermedics.co.uk/vetproplus.html

http://www.omegalaser.co.uk/equipment.html

http://www.thorlaser.com

 

Timelas Vital is a high-energy soft laser with 16 CW laser diodes, total

power output of 640 mW (1 diode has a power of +/- 45 mW) and is

very usefull for a homogeneous large treatment areas. The laser seems

to be especially effective within the first stages of the wound healing

process. The worse the wound is healing, the bigger is the laser effect.

Nevertheless, laser treatment does not replace appropriate wound care.

The better the wound conditions, the better the penetration depth of the

laser. In case of wound crust, the dose must be increased. Wound

edges and near-by lymphatic nodes should be treated, too. The infrared

area laser beam works on the upper skin-layers, visibly displaying its

therapeutic effect in case of different indications: • Pain therapy • Bones

and joints • Wound healing (ulcers, above others) • The treatment of

bones and joints e.g. with Epicondylitis or Arthrosis • To improve wound

healing e.g. with Ulcera or hypertropic scars • The treatment of trigger

points in the pain therapy rank. The Timelas Vital has the following

extra features: • Integrated timer • Area probe with 16 diodes (IR, 640

mW, 830 nm) • Emergency circuit breaker

 

Timelas Vital Art.-No. 205256 Area laser in the infrared spectrum

Technical data Type of laser CW laser diode Wave length 830 nm

Beam spread 7.5° respectively 18° CW output power 16 x 40 mW (640

mW) +/- 20% Power supply 100-230 VAC 50 Hz Laser class 3B,

according to the directive DIN EN 60825-1/03.97 Rating IIa, according

to the directive 93/42/EEC, annex IX for medical products Invisible laser

radiation Avoid eye or skin exposure Laser class 3B The Abra neural

laser provides the treating physician with a substantial laser output in

form of powerful laser pulses. The Abra affords sufficient therapy

energy to penetrate deep into the body. The Abra laser is a

semiconductor- bases (GaAs) infrared pulsed laser with 3 modulation

frequencies. The power supply, the modulation frequency generation

which is ensured by high-precision crystal, and the time control are

accommodated in the device housing; the laser output stage and the

crystal are located in the hand-held laser probe. Frequency A

Treatment of scars and irritated areas, inflammations and all types of

physical and psychological disorganization Frequency B Treatment of

nutritional disorder, arthrosis, degeneration of the nervous system

Frequency C Treatment of pain and blockages of the locomotory system

Supplied with the following accessories: • Power cable • Keys, 2 pcs •

Spare fuse: 2 x T 125 mW /250 V • Probe support • Laser warning sign

• Manual

 

Abra 30 Watt Art.-No. 205265 Technical data Modulation Frequency

A=292 Hz B= 584 Hz C= 1168 Hz Output power Type 2: 30 Watt Pulse

duration 200 ns Wave length 904 nm Laser class 3B, according to DIN

EN 60825-1/07.94 Conformity complies with the Medical Device

Directive (CE) schwa-medico’s efficient service goes beyond the

technical maintenance of the modular type of laser for diagnostic and

therapeutic purpose. We organize advanced laser training for our

german and global clients periodically. Intensive exchange of

experience is a productive source of therapeutic and diagnostic

application. Since the discovery of the laser beams in 1961, the

application of lasers in medicine has developed quickly. Since 1975,

schwa-medico produces and distributes laser devices for the use in

acupuncture and pain therapy. We have many years of experience and

will be glad to advise you in detail.

 

Laser therapy Export department Germany schwa-medico

Electrotherapy The Handy CW 100 is a powerful infra-red laser with

100 mW continuous wave output power. High mobility is guaranteed

because of its small dimensions, the transport case and the

comfortable system of changeable batteries. The laser is easy-to-

operate since therapy times can be preset. An integrated laser power

meter enables the user to check whether the device is working

properly. Indications: Pain therapy: sports medicine and orthopedics,

pain syndromes in joint and the muscular- skeletal system Dermatology:

Ulcus cruris, scars, eczema, acne, herpes labialis, herpes simplex,

herpes zoster, psoriasis Dental medicine: Aphtas, parodontitis,

gingivitis, healing of wounds, diseases of the pulpa, pain therapy

Acupuncture: Ear and body acupuncture. Special features: • 3 different

operation modes (CW/Bahr/ Nogier) • 196 new and interesting

combinations for diagnostic and therapy • Rechargeable accumulator

providing for long therapy sessions • For dental applications 2 separate

probes (curved & straight) are standard supplied • Special high quality

flight case for transportation 2a Supplied with the following accessories:

206920 Charger P11-5 206930 Battery charger AL 2 206940

Rechargeable battery WA 11-6; 2 pcs 205224 Laser warning sign

206909 Laser safety glasses PSB2 for the patient Transport case

Manual

 

Handy CW 100 Art.-No. 205236 Technical data Type of laser CW

continuous laser diode CW output power 100 mW +/- 10% 50 mW +/-

10% Pulse duration 200 ns Wave length 830 nm Laser class 3B,

according to DIN EN 60825-1/07.94 Class IIa, according to the directive

for medical products 93/42/EEC Conformity complies with the Medical

Device Directive (CE) The manus series are red-light-laser that work on

the upper skin-layers, visibly displaying its healing power. This is the

reason for its use in ear and body acupuncture, dermatology and in

dental medicine. Indications: Acupuncture: Ear and body acupuncture

Dermatology: Ulcera cruris, scars, eczema, acne, herpes labialis Dental

medicine: Aphatas, paradontitis, ginigivitis, wound therapy 3c Supplied

with the following accessories: 206920 Charger P 11-5 205421 Laser

powermeter LLM 675 CW 205328 Transportation case Manual Optional

accessories: 206905 Laser safety glasses for patients for Manus Laser

10, 20 and 30 205242 Dental applicator, straight 205216 Dental

applicator, curved

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Tel: (H): +353- or (M): +353-

WWW:

" Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " -

Chinese Proverb

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info. I was thinking that a simple but relatively

strong laser (not the Ito one in all the acu-catalogs) would be an

effective and less smokey moxa treatment. Sort of like those

thermie tiger moxa sticks, the laser would act like indirect moxa on

the needle or as adjunct to massage. Is this wrong thinking? What

sort of wavelenghts are coming off of the moxa? How far are they

penetrating? What role does the combustion of the essential oils of

the plant play in therapeutic effect? Would the laser act in the

same way as electricity to iontophorese(which I think is the right

word for transdermal conduction of substance) a salve or essential

oil? Any answers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<@e...> wrote:

> Hi Cameron,

>

> Cameron Hollister wrote:

> > Hello, I am looking into lasers and there seems to be alot of

info

> > scattered around. I've read Margaret Naeser's article among many

> > others. I was hoping to get some direct feedback from someone

with

> > experience. And are they all so expensive? Thanx, Cameron

>

> Lasers vary from toys (like the pointer-lasers that one can buy

for a few

> dollars) to seriously powerful emitters with cluster-probes that

can

> deliver up to 400-700 mW output power.

>

> Although one can buy cheaper single-probe models, top power

cluster-

> probes and top technology cost a lot - up to 6000 Euros.

>

> I will not pay that kind of money for an instrument that I doubt

will give

> better clinical results than simple acupuncture. Here is an

excerpt from

> a mail to a vet colleague on the topic:

>

> Kevin (an equine vet in USA) wrote:

> > Hello Phill, I use the laser once in a while. Nothing beats a

needle.

> > When I was taking the IVAS course in Philadelphia in the Winter

of

> > 1988, Allen Schoen and a few others got up and repeatedly talked

about

> > cases they treated with their laser (Respond) and how easy it

was -

> > especially when the animal (small) did not want a needle put in

that

> > point, but they always would come across a case that would not

respond

> > to the laser so they used needles and finally got a good

response.

> > During the break I went up to John Limehouse and said, I'm

getting the

> > impression that when the laser does not work, then you go to the

> > needle - so the needle must be stronger/better???? His response

was

> > the same " Nothing beats a needle " .

>

> Kevin, many thanks for that. With few exceptions, that is my

experience

> also.

>

> > Obviously lasers have their place, but in the end the needle (if

you

> > can get it in) will end up treating more cases successfully.

Kevin

>

> I agree. However, some people are more interested in the DIY

market

> (sports injuries, horse handlers, etc) than in selling to

acupuncturists.

> Most DIY users will know NOTHING about acupuncture and will use

> laser as a topical (local) Tx on painful, ulcerated or otherwise

> dysfunctional areas.

>

> For some of the top lasers, see:

>

> http://www.horseridermedics.co.uk/physiolaser_olympic.html

> http://www.horseridermedics.co.uk/vetproplus.html

> http://www.omegalaser.co.uk/equipment.html

> http://www.thorlaser.com

>

> Timelas Vital is a high-energy soft laser with 16 CW laser diodes,

total

> power output of 640 mW (1 diode has a power of +/- 45 mW) and is

> very usefull for a homogeneous large treatment areas. The laser

seems

> to be especially effective within the first stages of the wound

healing

> process. The worse the wound is healing, the bigger is the laser

effect.

> Nevertheless, laser treatment does not replace appropriate wound

care.

> The better the wound conditions, the better the penetration depth

of the

> laser. In case of wound crust, the dose must be increased. Wound

> edges and near-by lymphatic nodes should be treated, too. The

infrared

> area laser beam works on the upper skin-layers, visibly

displaying its

> therapeutic effect in case of different indications: • Pain

therapy • Bones

> and joints • Wound healing (ulcers, above others) • The treatment

of

> bones and joints e.g. with Epicondylitis or Arthrosis • To

improve wound

> healing e.g. with Ulcera or hypertropic scars • The treatment of

trigger

> points in the pain therapy rank. The Timelas Vital has the

following

> extra features: • Integrated timer • Area probe with 16 diodes

(IR, 640

> mW, 830 nm) • Emergency circuit breaker

>

> Timelas Vital Art.-No. 205256 Area laser in the infrared spectrum

> Technical data Type of laser CW laser diode Wave length 830 nm

> Beam spread 7.5° respectively 18° CW output power 16 x 40 mW (640

> mW) +/- 20% Power supply 100-230 VAC 50 Hz Laser class 3B,

> according to the directive DIN EN 60825-1/03.97 Rating IIa,

according

> to the directive 93/42/EEC, annex IX for medical products

Invisible laser

> radiation Avoid eye or skin exposure Laser class 3B The Abra

neural

> laser provides the treating physician with a substantial laser

output in

> form of powerful laser pulses. The Abra affords sufficient

therapy

> energy to penetrate deep into the body. The Abra laser is a

> semiconductor- bases (GaAs) infrared pulsed laser with 3

modulation

> frequencies. The power supply, the modulation frequency

generation

> which is ensured by high-precision crystal, and the time control

are

> accommodated in the device housing; the laser output stage and the

> crystal are located in the hand-held laser probe. Frequency A

> Treatment of scars and irritated areas, inflammations and all

types of

> physical and psychological disorganization Frequency B Treatment

of

> nutritional disorder, arthrosis, degeneration of the nervous

system

> Frequency C Treatment of pain and blockages of the locomotory

system

> Supplied with the following accessories: • Power cable • Keys, 2

pcs •

> Spare fuse: 2 x T 125 mW /250 V • Probe support • Laser warning

sign

> • Manual

>

> Abra 30 Watt Art.-No. 205265 Technical data Modulation Frequency

> A=292 Hz B= 584 Hz C= 1168 Hz Output power Type 2: 30 Watt Pulse

> duration 200 ns Wave length 904 nm Laser class 3B, according to

DIN

> EN 60825-1/07.94 Conformity complies with the Medical Device

> Directive (CE) schwa-medico's efficient service goes beyond the

> technical maintenance of the modular type of laser for diagnostic

and

> therapeutic purpose. We organize advanced laser training for our

> german and global clients periodically. Intensive exchange of

> experience is a productive source of therapeutic and diagnostic

> application. Since the discovery of the laser beams in 1961, the

> application of lasers in medicine has developed quickly. Since

1975,

> schwa-medico produces and distributes laser devices for the use

in

> acupuncture and pain therapy. We have many years of experience

and

> will be glad to advise you in detail.

>

> Laser therapy Export department Germany schwa-medico

> Electrotherapy The Handy CW 100 is a powerful infra-red laser

with

> 100 mW continuous wave output power. High mobility is guaranteed

> because of its small dimensions, the transport case and the

> comfortable system of changeable batteries. The laser is easy-to-

> operate since therapy times can be preset. An integrated laser

power

> meter enables the user to check whether the device is working

> properly. Indications: Pain therapy: sports medicine and

orthopedics,

> pain syndromes in joint and the muscular- skeletal system

Dermatology:

> Ulcus cruris, scars, eczema, acne, herpes labialis, herpes

simplex,

> herpes zoster, psoriasis Dental medicine: Aphtas, parodontitis,

> gingivitis, healing of wounds, diseases of the pulpa, pain

therapy

> Acupuncture: Ear and body acupuncture. Special features: • 3

different

> operation modes (CW/Bahr/ Nogier) • 196 new and interesting

> combinations for diagnostic and therapy • Rechargeable

accumulator

> providing for long therapy sessions • For dental applications 2

separate

> probes (curved & straight) are standard supplied • Special high

quality

> flight case for transportation 2a Supplied with the following

accessories:

> 206920 Charger P11-5 206930 Battery charger AL 2 206940

> Rechargeable battery WA 11-6; 2 pcs 205224 Laser warning sign

> 206909 Laser safety glasses PSB2 for the patient Transport case

> Manual

>

> Handy CW 100 Art.-No. 205236 Technical data Type of laser CW

> continuous laser diode CW output power 100 mW +/- 10% 50 mW +/-

> 10% Pulse duration 200 ns Wave length 830 nm Laser class 3B,

> according to DIN EN 60825-1/07.94 Class IIa, according to the

directive

> for medical products 93/42/EEC Conformity complies with the

Medical

> Device Directive (CE) The manus series are red-light-laser that

work on

> the upper skin-layers, visibly displaying its healing power. This

is the

> reason for its use in ear and body acupuncture, dermatology and

in

> dental medicine. Indications: Acupuncture: Ear and body

acupuncture

> Dermatology: Ulcera cruris, scars, eczema, acne, herpes labialis

Dental

> medicine: Aphatas, paradontitis, ginigivitis, wound therapy 3c

Supplied

> with the following accessories: 206920 Charger P 11-5 205421

Laser

> powermeter LLM 675 CW 205328 Transportation case Manual Optional

> accessories: 206905 Laser safety glasses for patients for Manus

Laser

> 10, 20 and 30 205242 Dental applicator, straight 205216 Dental

> applicator, curved

>

>

>

>

> Best regards,

>

>

> Tel: (H): +353- or (M): +353-

> WWW:

> " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " -

 

> Chinese Proverb

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

For an effective and less smoky moxa treatment, you might consider direct

moxibustion.

I've done it in medical office settings for years with no complaints; the amount

of smoke

depends more on the choice of incense to light the moxa than the moxa itself

since the

amount used is very very small. All it takes is a bit of practice.

 

I agree with Phil, nothing beats a needle... except maybe direct moxibustion. I

have had

effects from moxibustion treatments that have been most remarkable.

 

There has been a lot of research done in Japan specifically on direct

moxibustion, as it is

so commonly done there. You might contact Junji Mizutani at North American

Journal of

Oriental Medicine and ask for his (very inexpensive) book on moxibustion. His

contact

info from the website http://members.shaw.ca/najom/Ehome.htm

Address: 896 West King Edward Avenue

Vancouver, B.C. V5Z 2E1 Canada

Phone/Fax : (604)874-8537

E-mail Address: najom (at) shaw.ca

 

Otherwise, i have no specific information on lasers but a popular smokeless

alternative to

warming moxa would be infrared or the TDP lamp. However some very experienced

Japanese practitioners of my acquaintance have opined that warming moxa and heat

lamps have very little tissue penetration and very little therapeutic effect

beyond making

the patient feel comfortable. Direct moxa, again, is a very different

therapeutic stimulus.

 

My .0151777 Euros

 

rh

 

Chinese Medicine , " cameronhollister "

<cameronhollister> wrote:

>

> Thanks for the info. I was thinking that a simple but relatively

> strong laser (not the Ito one in all the acu-catalogs) would be an

> effective and less smokey moxa treatment. Sort of like those

> thermie tiger moxa sticks, the laser would act like indirect moxa on

> the needle or as adjunct to massage. Is this wrong thinking? What

> sort of wavelenghts are coming off of the moxa? How far are they

> penetrating? What role does the combustion of the essential oils of

> the plant play in therapeutic effect? Would the laser act in the

> same way as electricity to iontophorese(which I think is the right

> word for transdermal conduction of substance) a salve or essential

> oil? Any answers?

>

>

[Guest guest]

What I would like to find out about is the moxa lamps like I saw used in

China.The moxa was in a flat filter or diaphragm looking arrangement that a

metal lampshade like cover was on.This was directed over the patient's knee

and additional cupping was being done. The moxa lamps, I have not seen in

any of the supply stores that I use.Does anyone know if they are available

in the US? Sincerely,P.Jordan

 

> " kampo36 " <kampo36

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

> Re: Good cheap laser

>Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:27:30 -0000

>

>

>For an effective and less smoky moxa treatment, you might consider direct

>moxibustion.

>I've done it in medical office settings for years with no complaints; the

>amount of smoke

>depends more on the choice of incense to light the moxa than the moxa

>itself since the

>amount used is very very small. All it takes is a bit of practice.

>

>I agree with Phil, nothing beats a needle... except maybe direct

>moxibustion. I have had

>effects from moxibustion treatments that have been most remarkable.

>

>There has been a lot of research done in Japan specifically on direct

>moxibustion, as it is

>so commonly done there. You might contact Junji Mizutani at North American

>Journal of

>Oriental Medicine and ask for his (very inexpensive) book on moxibustion.

>His contact

>info from the website http://members.shaw.ca/najom/Ehome.htm

>Address: 896 West King Edward Avenue

>Vancouver, B.C. V5Z 2E1 Canada

>Phone/Fax : (604)874-8537

>E-mail Address: najom (at) shaw.ca

>

>Otherwise, i have no specific information on lasers but a popular smokeless

>alternative to

>warming moxa would be infrared or the TDP lamp. However some very

>experienced

>Japanese practitioners of my acquaintance have opined that warming moxa and

>heat

>lamps have very little tissue penetration and very little therapeutic

>effect beyond making

>the patient feel comfortable. Direct moxa, again, is a very different

>therapeutic stimulus.

>

>My .0151777 Euros

>

>rh

>

>Chinese Medicine , " cameronhollister "

><cameronhollister> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks for the info. I was thinking that a simple but relatively

> > strong laser (not the Ito one in all the acu-catalogs) would be an

> > effective and less smokey moxa treatment. Sort of like those

> > thermie tiger moxa sticks, the laser would act like indirect moxa on

> > the needle or as adjunct to massage. Is this wrong thinking? What

> > sort of wavelenghts are coming off of the moxa? How far are they

> > penetrating? What role does the combustion of the essential oils of

> > the plant play in therapeutic effect? Would the laser act in the

> > same way as electricity to iontophorese(which I think is the right

> > word for transdermal conduction of substance) a salve or essential

> > oil? Any answers?

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Patricia:

 

There is a small moxa clamp available in Guangzhou

that has cords for attaching to the body. The device

holds the moxa stick in place, with a metal wire trap

for the ash, and can be placed wherever needed.

 

Not sure of US availability, is this what you meant?

 

Regards, Jack

 

--- Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic

wrote:

 

> What I would like to find out about is the moxa

> lamps like I saw used in

> China.The moxa was in a flat filter or diaphragm

> looking arrangement that a

> metal lampshade like cover was on.This was directed

> over the patient's knee

> and additional cupping was being done. The moxa

> lamps, I have not seen in

> any of the supply stores that I use.Does anyone know

> if they are available

> in the US? Sincerely,P.Jordan

>

> > " kampo36 " <kampo36

> >

> Chinese Medicine

> >Chinese Medicine

> > Re: Good cheap laser

> >Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:27:30 -0000

> >

> >

> >For an effective and less smoky moxa treatment, you

> might consider direct

> >moxibustion.

> >I've done it in medical office settings for years

> with no complaints; the

> >amount of smoke

> >depends more on the choice of incense to light the

> moxa than the moxa

> >itself since the

> >amount used is very very small. All it takes is a

> bit of practice.

> >

> >I agree with Phil, nothing beats a needle... except

> maybe direct

> >moxibustion. I have had

> >effects from moxibustion treatments that have been

> most remarkable.

> >

> >There has been a lot of research done in Japan

> specifically on direct

> >moxibustion, as it is

> >so commonly done there. You might contact Junji

> Mizutani at North American

> >Journal of

> >Oriental Medicine and ask for his (very

> inexpensive) book on moxibustion.

> >His contact

> >info from the website

> http://members.shaw.ca/najom/Ehome.htm

> >Address: 896 West King Edward Avenue

> >Vancouver, B.C. V5Z 2E1 Canada

> >Phone/Fax : (604)874-8537

> >E-mail Address: najom (at) shaw.ca

> >

> >Otherwise, i have no specific information on lasers

> but a popular smokeless

> >alternative to

> >warming moxa would be infrared or the TDP lamp.

> However some very

> >experienced

> >Japanese practitioners of my acquaintance have

> opined that warming moxa and

> >heat

> >lamps have very little tissue penetration and very

> little therapeutic

> >effect beyond making

> >the patient feel comfortable. Direct moxa, again,

> is a very different

> >therapeutic stimulus.

> >

> >My .0151777 Euros

> >

> >rh

> >

> >--- In

> Chinese Medicine ,

> " cameronhollister "

> ><cameronhollister> wrote:

> > >

> > > Thanks for the info. I was thinking that a

> simple but relatively

> > > strong laser (not the Ito one in all the

> acu-catalogs) would be an

> > > effective and less smokey moxa treatment. Sort

> of like those

> > > thermie tiger moxa sticks, the laser would act

> like indirect moxa on

> > > the needle or as adjunct to massage. Is this

> wrong thinking? What

> > > sort of wavelenghts are coming off of the moxa?

> How far are they

> > > penetrating? What role does the combustion of

> the essential oils of

> > > the plant play in therapeutic effect? Would the

> laser act in the

> > > same way as electricity to iontophorese(which I

> think is the right

> > > word for transdermal conduction of substance) a

> salve or essential

> > > oil? Any answers?

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I have some info in my new text. You can get very good LED systems

for less than lasers with equal if not better clinical results. You

can contact me off list if you want more info

Alon

 

Chinese Medicine , " cameronhollister "

<cameronhollister> wrote:

>

> Hello, I am looking into lasers and there seems to be alot of

> information scattered around. I've read Margaret Naeser's article

> among many others. I was hoping to get some direct feedback from

> someone with experience. And are they all so expensive?

> Thanx, Cameron

[Guest guest]

I will not pay that kind of money for an instrument that I doubt

will give

better clinical results than simple acupuncture.

>>>>>

 

I can tell you that some photonic LED stimulators are much much

better for diabetic neuropathy than acupuncture. We get around 80%

reduction in pain and around 60% improvment in sensation with only 4

treatments. For about 50% of the patient this lasts for months and

even years. For the other 50% boosters are needed anywhere between

once every couple of weeks to once evert few months. You cannot get

this kind of response with acupuncture.

Alon

[Guest guest]

Lasers are not heat therapy and should not be compared to moxa

Alon

 

 

--- In

Chinese Medicine , " cameronhollister "

<cameronhollister> wrote:

>

> Thanks for the info. I was thinking that a simple but relatively

> strong laser (not the Ito one in all the acu-catalogs) would be an

> effective and less smokey moxa treatment. Sort of like those

> thermie tiger moxa sticks, the laser would act like indirect moxa

on

> the needle or as adjunct to massage. Is this wrong thinking?

What

> sort of wavelenghts are coming off of the moxa? How far are they

> penetrating? What role does the combustion of the essential oils

of

> the plant play in therapeutic effect? Would the laser act in the

> same way as electricity to iontophorese(which I think is the right

> word for transdermal conduction of substance) a salve or essential

> oil? Any answers?

Chinese Medicine , " "

> <@e...> wrote:

> > Hi Cameron,

> >

> > Cameron Hollister wrote:

> > > Hello, I am looking into lasers and there seems to be alot of

> info

> > > scattered around. I've read Margaret Naeser's article among

many

> > > others. I was hoping to get some direct feedback from someone

> with

> > > experience. And are they all so expensive? Thanx, Cameron

> >

> > Lasers vary from toys (like the pointer-lasers that one can buy

> for a few

> > dollars) to seriously powerful emitters with cluster-probes that

> can

> > deliver up to 400-700 mW output power.

> >

> > Although one can buy cheaper single-probe models, top power

> cluster-

> > probes and top technology cost a lot - up to 6000 Euros.

> >

> > I will not pay that kind of money for an instrument that I doubt

> will give

> > better clinical results than simple acupuncture. Here is an

> excerpt from

> > a mail to a vet colleague on the topic:

> >

> > Kevin (an equine vet in USA) wrote:

> > > Hello Phill, I use the laser once in a while. Nothing beats a

> needle.

> > > When I was taking the IVAS course in Philadelphia in the

Winter

> of

> > > 1988, Allen Schoen and a few others got up and repeatedly

talked

> about

> > > cases they treated with their laser (Respond) and how easy it

> was -

> > > especially when the animal (small) did not want a needle put

in

> that

> > > point, but they always would come across a case that would not

> respond

> > > to the laser so they used needles and finally got a good

> response.

> > > During the break I went up to John Limehouse and said, I'm

> getting the

> > > impression that when the laser does not work, then you go to

the

> > > needle - so the needle must be stronger/better???? His

response

> was

> > > the same " Nothing beats a needle " .

> >

> > Kevin, many thanks for that. With few exceptions, that is my

> experience

> > also.

> >

> > > Obviously lasers have their place, but in the end the needle

(if

> you

> > > can get it in) will end up treating more cases successfully.

> Kevin

> >

> > I agree. However, some people are more interested in the DIY

> market

> > (sports injuries, horse handlers, etc) than in selling to

> acupuncturists.

> > Most DIY users will know NOTHING about acupuncture and will use

> > laser as a topical (local) Tx on painful, ulcerated or otherwise

> > dysfunctional areas.

> >

> > For some of the top lasers, see:

> >

> > http://www.horseridermedics.co.uk/physiolaser_olympic.html

> > http://www.horseridermedics.co.uk/vetproplus.html

> > http://www.omegalaser.co.uk/equipment.html

> > http://www.thorlaser.com

> >

> > Timelas Vital is a high-energy soft laser with 16 CW laser

diodes,

> total

> > power output of 640 mW (1 diode has a power of +/- 45 mW) and

is

> > very usefull for a homogeneous large treatment areas. The laser

> seems

> > to be especially effective within the first stages of the wound

> healing

> > process. The worse the wound is healing, the bigger is the

laser

> effect.

> > Nevertheless, laser treatment does not replace appropriate wound

> care.

> > The better the wound conditions, the better the penetration

depth

> of the

> > laser. In case of wound crust, the dose must be increased.

Wound

> > edges and near-by lymphatic nodes should be treated, too. The

> infrared

> > area laser beam works on the upper skin-layers, visibly

> displaying its

> > therapeutic effect in case of different indications: • Pain

> therapy • Bones

> > and joints • Wound healing (ulcers, above others) • The

treatment

> of

> > bones and joints e.g. with Epicondylitis or Arthrosis • To

> improve wound

> > healing e.g. with Ulcera or hypertropic scars • The treatment

of

> trigger

> > points in the pain therapy rank. The Timelas Vital has the

> following

> > extra features: • Integrated timer • Area probe with 16 diodes

> (IR, 640

> > mW, 830 nm) • Emergency circuit breaker

> >

> > Timelas Vital Art.-No. 205256 Area laser in the infrared

spectrum

> > Technical data Type of laser CW laser diode Wave length 830 nm

> > Beam spread 7.5° respectively 18° CW output power 16 x 40 mW

(640

> > mW) +/- 20% Power supply 100-230 VAC 50 Hz Laser class 3B,

> > according to the directive DIN EN 60825-1/03.97 Rating IIa,

> according

> > to the directive 93/42/EEC, annex IX for medical products

> Invisible laser

> > radiation Avoid eye or skin exposure Laser class 3B The Abra

> neural

> > laser provides the treating physician with a substantial laser

> output in

> > form of powerful laser pulses. The Abra affords sufficient

> therapy

> > energy to penetrate deep into the body. The Abra laser is a

> > semiconductor- bases (GaAs) infrared pulsed laser with 3

> modulation

> > frequencies. The power supply, the modulation frequency

> generation

> > which is ensured by high-precision crystal, and the time

control

> are

> > accommodated in the device housing; the laser output stage and

the

> > crystal are located in the hand-held laser probe. Frequency A

> > Treatment of scars and irritated areas, inflammations and all

> types of

> > physical and psychological disorganization Frequency B

Treatment

> of

> > nutritional disorder, arthrosis, degeneration of the nervous

> system

> > Frequency C Treatment of pain and blockages of the locomotory

> system

> > Supplied with the following accessories: • Power cable • Keys, 2

> pcs •

> > Spare fuse: 2 x T 125 mW /250 V • Probe support • Laser warning

> sign

> > • Manual

> >

> > Abra 30 Watt Art.-No. 205265 Technical data Modulation Frequency

> > A=292 Hz B= 584 Hz C= 1168 Hz Output power Type 2: 30 Watt

Pulse

> > duration 200 ns Wave length 904 nm Laser class 3B, according to

> DIN

> > EN 60825-1/07.94 Conformity complies with the Medical Device

> > Directive (CE) schwa-medico's efficient service goes beyond the

> > technical maintenance of the modular type of laser for

diagnostic

> and

> > therapeutic purpose. We organize advanced laser training for

our

> > german and global clients periodically. Intensive exchange of

> > experience is a productive source of therapeutic and diagnostic

> > application. Since the discovery of the laser beams in 1961, the

> > application of lasers in medicine has developed quickly. Since

> 1975,

> > schwa-medico produces and distributes laser devices for the use

> in

> > acupuncture and pain therapy. We have many years of experience

> and

> > will be glad to advise you in detail.

> >

> > Laser therapy Export department Germany schwa-medico

> > Electrotherapy The Handy CW 100 is a powerful infra-red laser

> with

> > 100 mW continuous wave output power. High mobility is

guaranteed

> > because of its small dimensions, the transport case and the

> > comfortable system of changeable batteries. The laser is easy-to-

> > operate since therapy times can be preset. An integrated laser

> power

> > meter enables the user to check whether the device is working

> > properly. Indications: Pain therapy: sports medicine and

> orthopedics,

> > pain syndromes in joint and the muscular- skeletal system

> Dermatology:

> > Ulcus cruris, scars, eczema, acne, herpes labialis, herpes

> simplex,

> > herpes zoster, psoriasis Dental medicine: Aphtas, parodontitis,

> > gingivitis, healing of wounds, diseases of the pulpa, pain

> therapy

> > Acupuncture: Ear and body acupuncture. Special features: • 3

> different

> > operation modes (CW/Bahr/ Nogier) • 196 new and interesting

> > combinations for diagnostic and therapy • Rechargeable

> accumulator

> > providing for long therapy sessions • For dental applications 2

> separate

> > probes (curved & straight) are standard supplied • Special high

> quality

> > flight case for transportation 2a Supplied with the following

> accessories:

> > 206920 Charger P11-5 206930 Battery charger AL 2 206940

> > Rechargeable battery WA 11-6; 2 pcs 205224 Laser warning sign

> > 206909 Laser safety glasses PSB2 for the patient Transport case

> > Manual

> >

> > Handy CW 100 Art.-No. 205236 Technical data Type of laser CW

> > continuous laser diode CW output power 100 mW +/- 10% 50 mW +/-

> > 10% Pulse duration 200 ns Wave length 830 nm Laser class 3B,

> > according to DIN EN 60825-1/07.94 Class IIa, according to the

> directive

> > for medical products 93/42/EEC Conformity complies with the

> Medical

> > Device Directive (CE) The manus series are red-light-laser that

> work on

> > the upper skin-layers, visibly displaying its healing power.

This

> is the

> > reason for its use in ear and body acupuncture, dermatology and

> in

> > dental medicine. Indications: Acupuncture: Ear and body

> acupuncture

> > Dermatology: Ulcera cruris, scars, eczema, acne, herpes

labialis

> Dental

> > medicine: Aphatas, paradontitis, ginigivitis, wound therapy 3c

> Supplied

> > with the following accessories: 206920 Charger P 11-5 205421

> Laser

> > powermeter LLM 675 CW 205328 Transportation case Manual

Optional

> > accessories: 206905 Laser safety glasses for patients for Manus

> Laser

> > 10, 20 and 30 205242 Dental applicator, straight 205216 Dental

> > applicator, curved

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> >

> > Tel: (H): +353- or (M): +353-

> > WWW:

> > " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing

it " -

>

> > Chinese Proverb

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

No, what I saw in use in the TCM Hosital in Huang Zhou was an actual metal

electric plug in lamp that warmed the moxa that was in the form of a disk in

the center of the lampshade looking part and it was directed to be centered

over the area of the patient that was being treated.It appeared to be

warming the moxa and this was perfect because it was smokeless, now perhaps

it isn't very strong because the TCM practitioner was also cupping all

around the area of the knee which was very, very swollen.Anyway, I would

like to have that lamp and be able to shine the warmed moxa over an area I

was treating........some folks and animals have asthma and couldn't take

burning moxa besides what burning moxa does in your clinic.Plus, the

practitioner I am sure also benefits from their hands being warmed by the

moxa as they were treating.Thanks for answering,P.Jordan

 

>Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

>RE: Re: Good cheap laser

>Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:21:25 -0800 (PST)

>

>Patricia:

>

>There is a small moxa clamp available in Guangzhou

>that has cords for attaching to the body. The device

>holds the moxa stick in place, with a metal wire trap

>for the ash, and can be placed wherever needed.

>

>Not sure of US availability, is this what you meant?

>

>Regards, Jack

>

>--- Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic

>wrote:

>

> > What I would like to find out about is the moxa

> > lamps like I saw used in

> > China.The moxa was in a flat filter or diaphragm

> > looking arrangement that a

> > metal lampshade like cover was on.This was directed

> > over the patient's knee

> > and additional cupping was being done. The moxa

> > lamps, I have not seen in

> > any of the supply stores that I use.Does anyone know

> > if they are available

> > in the US? Sincerely,P.Jordan

> >

> > > " kampo36 " <kampo36

> > >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > > Re: Good cheap laser

> > >Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:27:30 -0000

> > >

> > >

> > >For an effective and less smoky moxa treatment, you

> > might consider direct

> > >moxibustion.

> > >I've done it in medical office settings for years

> > with no complaints; the

> > >amount of smoke

> > >depends more on the choice of incense to light the

> > moxa than the moxa

> > >itself since the

> > >amount used is very very small. All it takes is a

> > bit of practice.

> > >

> > >I agree with Phil, nothing beats a needle... except

> > maybe direct

> > >moxibustion. I have had

> > >effects from moxibustion treatments that have been

> > most remarkable.

> > >

> > >There has been a lot of research done in Japan

> > specifically on direct

> > >moxibustion, as it is

> > >so commonly done there. You might contact Junji

> > Mizutani at North American

> > >Journal of

> > >Oriental Medicine and ask for his (very

> > inexpensive) book on moxibustion.

> > >His contact

> > >info from the website

> > http://members.shaw.ca/najom/Ehome.htm

> > >Address: 896 West King Edward Avenue

> > >Vancouver, B.C. V5Z 2E1 Canada

> > >Phone/Fax : (604)874-8537

> > >E-mail Address: najom (at) shaw.ca

> > >

> > >Otherwise, i have no specific information on lasers

> > but a popular smokeless

> > >alternative to

> > >warming moxa would be infrared or the TDP lamp.

> > However some very

> > >experienced

> > >Japanese practitioners of my acquaintance have

> > opined that warming moxa and

> > >heat

> > >lamps have very little tissue penetration and very

> > little therapeutic

> > >effect beyond making

> > >the patient feel comfortable. Direct moxa, again,

> > is a very different

> > >therapeutic stimulus.

> > >

> > >My .0151777 Euros

> > >

> > >rh

> > >

> > >--- In

> > Chinese Medicine ,

> > " cameronhollister "

> > ><cameronhollister> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the info. I was thinking that a

> > simple but relatively

> > > > strong laser (not the Ito one in all the

> > acu-catalogs) would be an

> > > > effective and less smokey moxa treatment. Sort

> > of like those

> > > > thermie tiger moxa sticks, the laser would act

> > like indirect moxa on

> > > > the needle or as adjunct to massage. Is this

> > wrong thinking? What

> > > > sort of wavelenghts are coming off of the moxa?

> > How far are they

> > > > penetrating? What role does the combustion of

> > the essential oils of

> > > > the plant play in therapeutic effect? Would the

> > laser act in the

> > > > same way as electricity to iontophorese(which I

> > think is the right

> > > > word for transdermal conduction of substance) a

> > salve or essential

> > > > oil? Any answers?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.

>http://info.mail./mail_250

[Guest guest]

How much the price of Photonic LED? And where I can buy and order this

machine? Thank you.

I am stay at Jakarta, Indonesia

 

Iwan Santosa

-

" alonmarcus2003 " <alonmarcus

<Chinese Medicine >

Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:57 AM

Re: Good cheap laser

 

 

>

>

>

> I will not pay that kind of money for an instrument that I doubt

> will give

> better clinical results than simple acupuncture.

> >>>>>

>

> I can tell you that some photonic LED stimulators are much much

> better for diabetic neuropathy than acupuncture. We get around 80%

> reduction in pain and around 60% improvment in sensation with only 4

> treatments. For about 50% of the patient this lasts for months and

> even years. For the other 50% boosters are needed anywhere between

> once every couple of weeks to once evert few months. You cannot get

> this kind of response with acupuncture.

> Alon

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

>

>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have no idea what you can get in Indonesia.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This list does not seem to be particularly interested in laser acupuncture?

I'm curious, wouldn't you think that lasers are a convenient therapeutic

medium to use in treating pediatric patients? Some time ago I posted a

description of a machine that allows for 8 lasers to be used simultaneously.

And the machine has been tested,quite a few papers about it have been

published.

Is it the cost price that deters most of us, or do most of us not see enough

pediatric patients to justify the investment?

I'm just wondering (and trying to decide if I will buy one...)

 

Tom.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Announcing a Weekend Workshop in Scottsdale AZ

 

Title:

Healing by the Tides of Qi

Using the Five Shu Point Locater Part One and Two

 

Credits earned:

Part One and Two are reviewed by NCCAOM for 7.5 CEUS each, and approved

by State Board of Acupuncture AZ for 7.5 CEUS each.

 

Content:

A diagnosis is as good as the points chosen to treat it. Conventional

points like source,

connective, mu and shu are nonspecific and can only treat by causing a

general flux or ebb

in qi. An exact open Five Shu horary point on the other hand is highly

element-specific, and

can create an exact and exclusive quantitative shift in the precise

element one is treating at that

particular time, leading to quick and significant relief of symptoms,

even in chronic and difficult

to treat cases.

 

Part One of the workshop is geared to a systematic and detailed

understanding of the structure

of qi circulation, and Part Two to clinical application in conditions

you are likely to see in your

practice.

 

Topics in Part One:

Planetary genesis of periodicity of qi.

Solar and Lunar polarities of qi.

Diurnal divisions and their subsets.

Constructing the horary clock.

Understanding horary subsets and how they impact treatment.

Understanding elemental and bi-elemental diagnosis.

Understanding the construct of the 5 Shu Point Locater.

Working with aspects of the following:

Bi symmetrical somatic polarity;

Polarity of the digits of the human hand;

The Paired Channel Law;

The Outside/Inside Law;

The Midday/Midnight or Binary Treatment Law;

The Quaternary Law;

Solar Markings on the Clepsydra.

 

Topics in Part Two:

Applying the 5 Shu Point Locater to elemental illness.

Why the needle is never inserted perpendicularly in 5 Shu usage.

Understanding the pitfalls of 5 Shu usage.

Common mistakes, some quite serious, with 5 Shu application.

Creating needle prescriptions you will use again and again.

Tonifying Earth as a central intervention in all illnesses.

 

Cost:

$125 per each Part, it is strongly recommended you take both Parts.

Part One is the theoretical basis on which Part Two is based.

 

Dates: Part One on Sat March 12 2005, Part Two on Sun March 13 2005.

 

Timing: 09.00 AM to 06:00 PM with breaks for lunch and tea

 

Teacher:

Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret Dip Ac NCCAOM L Ac

4 decades of teaching. Clinician, writer, poet.

 

Location:

Community Acupuncture Clinic, 4120 N Goldwater Blvd

Suite 213, Scottsdale AZ 85251.

 

For map and directions, and to pay on-line click this link:

http://acu-free.com/workshops.htm

 

For directions by phone, and to reserve a space:

Call Toll Free 1.888.878.7353.

 

Limited spaces, pl. reserve early on. Workshop will be taped for production

on DVD and you may choose to participate or decline to be

included.Workbook included

at no cost. 5 Shu Locater sold separately, cost $24.99.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret Dip Ac NCCAOM L Ac

Clinical Director Community Acupuncture Clinic

4129 N Goldwater Blvd Suite 213 Scottsdale AZ 85251.

www.acu-free.com. tcmceus.

[Guest guest]

--- In

Chinese Medicine , " alonmarcus2003 "

<alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

>

>

> I will not pay that kind of money for an instrument that I doubt

> will give

> better clinical results than simple acupuncture.

> >>>>>

>

> I can tell you that some photonic LED stimulators are much much

> better for diabetic neuropathy than acupuncture. We get around 80%

> reduction in pain and around 60% improvment in sensation with only

4

> treatments. For about 50% of the patient this lasts for months and

> even years. For the other 50% boosters are needed anywhere between

> once every couple of weeks to once evert few months. You cannot

get

> this kind of response with acupuncture.

> Alon

 

Dear Alon,

 

In a recent posting you mentioned having significant results in your

clinic using this therapy. I was wondering if you could share with

me the equipment and points that were utilized to achieve these

results. I have a patient who could benefit greatly from this

information. He just finished 12 weeks of chemo - the cause of the

neuropathy - and is terrified of needles. Thank you.

 

Kim Blankenship, L.Ac.

Jade Spirit, LLC

10245 E. Via Linda Suite 112

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " Kim " <kuangguiyu>

wrote:

>

>> Dear Alon,

>

> In a recent posting you mentioned having significant results in your

> clinic using this therapy. I was wondering if you could share with

> me the equipment and points that were utilized to achieve these

> results.

 

yes i second this. what LED equipment do you recommend?

 

rh

[Guest guest]

I have the bales photonic stimulator, although i just build my first prototype

which is much more powerful (bales is 300mw, i just build one that is 1.2W and

when i market it it will cost 1/4 or so of the price). Its more about the

stimulator than the protocol. But it is written in my new text

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

yes i second this. what LED equipment do you recommend?

>>>>>The Bales unit is an 880nm 300mw LED. It works well and has good track

record. Each unit is about $6000, i use two of them, although now that i am

building my own i am looking to sell them for $3000 each.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Alon, what do you think about the laser machine I mentioned here before?

The makers published a book with all their research in it " Lasernadel

Akupunktur, Wissenschaft und Praxis " , by Gerhard Litscher und Detlef

Schikora, ISBN 3-89967-022-1. As far as I know, this is the best book on

laser acupuncture. Do you recommend any other works?

 

Regards,

 

Tom.

----

 

 

03/11/05 10:18:18

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Good cheap laser

 

 

yes i second this. what LED equipment do you recommend?

>>>>>The Bales unit is an 880nm 300mw LED. It works well and has good track

record. Each unit is about $6000, i use two of them, although now that i am

building my own i am looking to sell them for $3000 each.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Alon,

 

wrote:

> I have the bales photonic stimulator, although i just build my first

> prototype which is much more powerful (bales is 300mw, i just build

> one that is 1.2W and when i market it it will cost 1/4 or so of the

> price). Its more about the stimulator than the protocol. But it is

> written in my new text.

 

Alon, note that the FDA is very vigilant about diagnostic or therapeutic

claims for new instruments. The FDA censured Bales and threatened

him as follows:

" Please notify this office in writing within 15 working days of your receipt

of this letter of the specific steps you have taken to correct the cited

violations. Your response should include steps being taken to address

misleading information currently in the marketplace and actions to

prevent similar violations in the future. If corrective actions cannot be

completed within 15 working days, state the reason for the delay and the

time within which the corrections will be completed. "

 

See the full details at http://tinyurl.com/5d3zk

 

Does anyone know the outcome of the FDA threat to Bales? The

original website [ http://www.balesscientific.com ] has disappeared off

WWW.

 

However, see:

http://www.rsdcanada.org/parc/english/therapy/photon.html

 

See also: " Thermal Image Processing: Breast Cancer Detection Years

Earlier July 31, 2001 " at http://tinyurl.com/4stka

 

That article [Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients] highlights the

inaccuracies of conventional mammography and says that use of the

Bales Scientific's state-of-the-art infrared system can read functional

changes in the breast at the beginning stages of angiogenesis -- when

the tumor begins to receive its own blood supply -- before it can grow to

size, and before malignant cells have a chance to spread. By pushing

back " early detection " by years, women can choose alternative therapies

to cure their own cancer without surgery, radiation, or chemotherapy --

accurately monitoring their progress all the while.

 

See also http://tinyurl.com/3qb3g for a most enlightening article on

THERMOGRAPHY - BETTER THAN MAMMOGRAPHY! The

Economics of Mammography: How Mammography Became the

Standard Diagnostic Tool and How to Change This!

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

 

 

 

 

Ireland.

Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

 

 

 

" Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " -

Chinese Proverb

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Phil

The Bales units are still sold and i do not believe they had to really change

anything. Bales actually sold the company for many millions of $ to CTI (which

is mostly interested in his thermography equipment). He is now working on FDA

approval for a unit that has some 80 heads (the bales photonic stimulator has

one). This unit is also being assessed in a clinical study on diabetic

neuropathy involving UCSF, Kaiser and the veteran system.

The FDA is much more open to laser and LED therapies these days but i will try

to find out more about the sanction and if anything came out of it.

By the way i was just at Crag Mitchell course on SHL and there was a lady there

that lost some of her voice do to being intubated for several weeks. I treated

her for about three minutes with the unit i developed and her voice became quite

noticeably stronger and less horse. I truly believe this technology is quite

promising.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Alon,

 

Please keep me posted on the Bales unit.

 

Phil

 

> Phil The Bales units are still sold and i do not believe they had to

> really change anything. Bales actually sold the company for many

> millions of $ to CTI (which is mostly interested in his thermography

> equipment). He is now working on FDA approval for a unit that has some

> 80 heads (the bales photonic stimulator has one). This unit is also

> being assessed in a clinical study on diabetic neuropathy involving

> UCSF, Kaiser and the veteran system. The FDA is much more open to

> laser and LED therapies these days but i will try to find out more

> about the sanction and if anything came out of it. By the way i was

> just at Crag Mitchell course on SHL and there was a lady there that

> lost some of her voice do to being intubated for several weeks. I

> treated her for about three minutes with the unit i developed and her

> voice became quite noticeably stronger and less hoarse. I truly believe

> this technology is quite promising.

>

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

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HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

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Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

[Guest guest]

Please keep me posted on the Bales unit.

>>>Phil i will.