Guest guest Posted May 21, 2000 Report Share Posted May 21, 2000 Those are the only pulses and details in 98% of the clinical cases that I encountered while attending clinic rounds at Five Branches (Santa Cruz, CA.) the Oriental Heath Sciences Academy (Oakland,CA. - sorry I seem to have forgotten their name)and the now defunct San Francisco College of Acupuncture. All my clinical teachers were from Taiwan or Shanghai. My tutorial teacher (Dr Wu from Tianjin, China) was better with more nuances, like Kidney Yang Floating and would bring me in to feel any unusual pulses. But again in his diagnosis for me would give only the main pulse sign. The tongue played a prominent role. BTW he's and excellent herbalist. My 5 element friends all know pulses far far better than I - except they don't know herbs. <<snipped>> The vast majority of instances I found were for three qualities: 1. slippery in the spleen position 2. wiry in the liver position 3. weak in the kidney position Ed Kasper L.Ac., Santa Cruz, California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2000 Report Share Posted May 22, 2000 Ed et al., Given the nature of our out-patient clientele, their lifestyles, age, sex, and the kinds of problems that we are primarily called on to treat, only approximately half of the 28 pulse images present on a day in/day out basis (at least in terms of mainstream Chinese pulse diagnosis as practiced since the late 16th century on the Mainland). In my experience, these are: 1. Slippery 2. Bowstring 3. Fine 4. Soggy 5. Floating 6. Deep 7. Fast 8. Slow 9. Moderate (i.e., slightly slow) 10. Knotted 11. Intermittent 12. Vacuous 13. Short (meaning the pulse does not reach into the inch position) Some of these are already compound pulses (i.e., pulse images made up of elements of one or more simpler pulse images). For instance, the soggy pulse is floating, fine, and forceless. The vacuous pulse is floating, large (i.e., wide), and forceless. In addition, most of the rest of the 28 are only more extreme variations of these core 13. For instance, the faint pulse is only very, very fine and forceless. The weak pulse is only deep, slow, and forceless. The hidden pulse is only very, very deep, and not particularly forceful, etc. If one memorizes these definitions, these other pulses are not at all difficult to feel and identify when they happen to appear. Some of the other 28 pulses are so extreme that we just don't see them in our mostly out-patient, " walking wounded, " chronic disease settings. If you want to feel the scallion-stalk, racing, water-dripping, shrimp swimming pulses, you need to ride in an ambulance, work in the ER or in ICU. Or you need to hang out with patients in hospices. Otherwise, in our clinical practice in the U.S. and Europe, the key trick is not to feel and distinguish the pulse images that tend to repeat over and over again (that's relatively easy!), but to interpret what these pulse images mean when they show up in combination in the different positions. One of my Chinese teachers in Shanghai in 1982 pleaded with me not to mystify myself. If took me another half dozen years to understand and ACCEPT what she was trying to tell me. I was so biased by my orientialist romanticism, I just couldn't let her advice based on 20 years of experience in. My cup was too full. I suspect my advice is going to fall on a lot of deaf ears. It certainly has in the past. But I think I do understand where a lot of us are coming from since I came from exactly the same place or even more so. Please, as a profession, let's not over-mystify pulse examination. This is a general tendency many of us have within this profession, and my experience is that this tendency is even more pronounced when it comes to the pulse. It is so easy for charlatans (even in China) to bamboozle the uninitiated about this. This is exactly why Zhang Jing-yue, one of the greatest medical thinkers and writers of his day (late Ming) said that pulse examination should come AFTER looking and questioning. In order to emphasize the role of questioning and de-romanticize, de-mystify the pulse, he authored the 10 Questions. We don't need to make this method of examination any more difficult than it is. A pattern (zheng) is made up of the convergence and corroboration of three streams of information based on the Four Examinations: 1) general signs and symptoms, 2) tongue signs, and 3) pulse signs. Since treatment in standard professional Chinese medicine is ultimately predicated on pattern discrimination (bian zheng lun zhi), the information we need to gather to plan our treatments is only that information necessary to confirm or deny a pattern discrimination (also given the fact that most of our patient's have 5-10 patterns SIMULTANEOUSLY). This does not require anything more than the 28 pulses. In fact, methodologically, this process cannot currently accomodate anything more than the 28 pulse and 10 death pulses. (To accomodate more pulse images, we would have to redefine the " standard " signs and symptoms of our " standard " patterns.) If one has 5-10 patterns presenting simultaneously, the trick is not to feel some arcane, esoteric pulse but to interpret what a specific combination of pulse images mean in a particular patient at a particular moment in time. For instance, let's say the patient has the following pulse images: Speed: slightly fast, 90 bpm Rt: Inch: Vacuous Bar: Soggy, slightly slippery on pressing and searching Cubit: Slippery, bowstring, and deep, but only normally deep, not abnormally deep Lft: Inch: Soggy Bar: floating, bowstring & fine Cubit: floating, bowstring & fine This is a real-life pulse picture taken from my patient files. Even without the corroborating general signs and symptoms and tongue signs, we can say the following things about the patient's probable patterns (which we then could easily corroborate by those signs and symptoms and tongue signs): The right bar soggy pulse tells us there is a spleen qi vacuity with probably engenderment of dampness and the spleen not engendering and transforming the blood. The left bar position tells us there is liver depression qi stagnation at least in part associated with blood and yin not nourishing and moistening the liver. The fact that the right bar is slightly bowstring on pressing and searching tells us the liver is invading the spleen. So now we know there is a liver-spleen disharmony. The right cubit position tells us that there is dampness and probably heat in the lower burner (due to spleen vacuity). the sligfhtly rapid pulse tells us there is some sort of evil heat, probably vacuity but definitely associated with vacuity. The left cubit position tells us that there is kidney yin vacuity. (Now we know there is dual liver-kidney yin vacuity). The floating images in the inch positions further confirm there is yin vacuity (yin not controlling yang which is counterflowing upward). The right inch suggests that the lung qi is also vacuous due to a probable combination of A) the heat of damp heat below ascending to collect in the lungs and consume the qi and B) spleen vacuity not upbearing the clear to form the ancestral or chest qi. The left inch suggests that the heart spirit is not being constructed and nourished properly, and so there are probably symptoms of the spirit not being quiet or calm. From here you need to have a good grasp of advanced Chinese medical theory. Since the bowstring pulse suggests that the qi is not flowing freely, especially in the lower part of the body, we might expect menstrual or reproductive pain in females and/or damp heat urinary or impediment problems in both males and females. Because the qi moves the blood and because of the interrelationships of the six depressions (liu yu), qi stagnation may have given rise to blood stasis, but we may have to confirm this by one of our other streams of information, NOT the pulse. Further, since damp heat may cause ministerial fire to stir or counterflow upward, thus leaving its lower source vacuous and cold, there may be kidney yang vacuity below which also does not manifest in the pulse but which must be confirmed or denied by other streams of information, such as questioning. Because of the interrealtionship between former and latter heavens, long-standing spleen vacuity may easily lead to kidney yang vacuity. Sex and age will also play their part in determining the presence of such yang vacuity which commonly does NOT manifest in the pulse because the pulse is located in the upper part of the body and heat (which is yang) inherently travels upward. Another way to explain this is to say that the pulse is ruled by the heart (xin zhu mai) and the heart is in the upper part of the body. In either case, in most cases of yang vacuity in our patients, yang vacuity does not manifest as a slow, deep pulse. In fact, it only manifests in the pulse at all by indirect inference, not direct image. This process has its own complexity, but it is not the complexity of some supernormal dexterity, mystical intuition, or esoteric knowledge. It has to do with 1) feeling relatively easy to distinguish feelings, 2) labelling these feelings, and then 3) interpreting these feelings correctly when taken as a total gestalt. In terms of the pulse example above, this patient's patterns are: 1) a liver-spleen disharmony (this is an abbreviation for saying A) liver depression qi stagnation and B) spleen qi vacuity weakness, 2) dual liver-kidney yin vacuity (with possible yang vacuity yet to be established), 3) probably damp heat impediment complicated by 4) malnourishment of the sinews, 5) possible blood stasis, and 6) lung-heart vacuity at the very least. Since a lung qi vacuity is as good as saying a defensive qi vacuity, this person is easily susceptible to external invasion. So the presence of external evils lodged in the exterior (7) would also have to be considered. Capisce? Bob > [Original Message] > HappyHerbalist.com <Health > > 05/21/2000 5:18:48 PM > RE: pulses > > Those are the only pulses and details in 98% of the clinical cases > that I encountered while attending clinic rounds at Five Branches (Santa > Cruz, CA.) the Oriental Heath Sciences Academy (Oakland,CA. - sorry I seem > to have forgotten their name)and the now defunct San Francisco College of > Acupuncture. All my clinical teachers were from Taiwan or Shanghai. My > tutorial teacher (Dr Wu from Tianjin, China) was better with more nuances, > like Kidney Yang Floating and would bring me in to feel any unusual pulses. > But again in his diagnosis for me would give only the main pulse sign. The > tongue played a prominent role. BTW he's and excellent herbalist. > > My 5 element friends all know pulses far far better than I - except they > don't know herbs. > > <<snipped>> The vast majority of instances I found were for three qualities: > > 1. slippery in the spleen position > > 2. wiry in the liver position > > 3. weak in the kidney position > > Ed Kasper L.Ac., Santa Cruz, California > > > ------ > Missing old school friends? Find them here: > http://click./1/4055/9/_/542111/_/958951117/ > ------ > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > --- Robert Flaws --- bobflaws --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2000 Report Share Posted May 22, 2000 As usual, I enjoy the clarity of Bob's material and points of view. He has expressed very important information in this posting in a practical and condensed manner. For myself, however, I would like to point out that in my practice that I do see a lot of unusual pulses, especially se mai/scattered pulses, as well as the scallion-stalk and water dripping pulses. This may be because of the number of patients I see with cancer or lupus, who are undergoing chemotherapy and/or radiation and other strong biomedical treatments. So it is important that we teach and share them. Many of our students at PCOM are doing their clinical intership at a hospice, and see these pulses weekly. Also, for practitioners of acupuncture, learning Nan Jing pulse techniques is essential; the pulse qualities that Bob describes are largely connected with internal, i.e. Chinese herbal medicine. I think Jim Ramholz emphasizes Nan Jing pulses in his work. However, the expression needs to be clarified. Without access to Wiseman translation terminology, pulse images become obscured and difficult to communicate. >Given the nature of our out-patient clientele, their lifestyles, age, sex, >and the kinds of problems that we are primarily called on to treat, only >approximately half of the 28 pulse images present on a day in/day out basis >(at least in terms of mainstream Chinese pulse diagnosis as practiced since >the late 16th century on the Mainland). In my experience, these are: > >1. Slippery >2. Bowstring >3. Fine >4. Soggy >5. Floating >6. Deep >7. Fast >8. Slow >9. Moderate (i.e., slightly slow) >10. Knotted >11. Intermittent >12. Vacuous >13. Short (meaning the pulse does not reach into the inch position) > >Some of these are already compound pulses (i.e., pulse images made up of >elements of one or more simpler pulse images). For instance, the soggy >pulse is floating, fine, and forceless. The vacuous pulse is floating, >large (i.e., wide), and forceless. In addition, most of the rest of the 28 >are only more extreme variations of these core 13. For instance, the faint >pulse is only very, very fine and forceless. The weak pulse is only deep, >slow, and forceless. The hidden pulse is only very, very deep, and not >particularly forceful, etc. If one memorizes these definitions, these other >pulses are not at all difficult to feel and identify when they happen to >appear. > >Some of the other 28 pulses are so extreme that we just don't see them in >our mostly out-patient, "walking wounded," chronic disease settings. If you >want to feel the scallion-stalk, racing, water-dripping, shrimp swimming >pulses, you need to ride in an ambulance, work in the ER or in ICU. Or you >need to hang out with patients in hospices. > >Otherwise, in our clinical practice in the U.S. and Europe, the key trick >is not to feel and distinguish the pulse images that tend to repeat over >and over again (that's relatively easy!), but to interpret what these pulse >images mean when they show up in combination in the different positions. > >One of my Chinese teachers in Shanghai in 1982 pleaded with me not to >mystify myself. If took me another half dozen years to understand and >ACCEPT what she was trying to tell me. I was so biased by my orientialist >romanticism, I just couldn't let her advice based on 20 years of experience >in. My cup was too full. I suspect my advice is going to fall on a lot of >deaf ears. It certainly has in the past. But I think I do understand where >a lot of us are coming from since I came from exactly the same place or >even more so. Please, as a profession, let's not over-mystify pulse >examination. > >This is a general tendency many of us have within this profession, and my >experience is that this tendency is even more pronounced when it comes to >the pulse. It is so easy for charlatans (even in China) to bamboozle the >uninitiated about this. This is exactly why Zhang Jing-yue, one of the >greatest medical thinkers and writers of his day (late Ming) said that >pulse examination should come AFTER looking and questioning. In order to >emphasize the role of questioning and de-romanticize, de-mystify the pulse, >he authored the 10 Questions. > >We don't need to make this method of examination any more difficult than it >is. A pattern (zheng) is made up of the convergence and corroboration of >three streams of information based on the Four Examinations: 1) general >signs and symptoms, 2) tongue signs, and 3) pulse signs. Since treatment in >standard professional Chinese medicine is ultimately predicated on pattern >discrimination (bian zheng lun zhi), the information we need to gather to >plan our treatments is only that information necessary to confirm or deny a >pattern discrimination (also given the fact that most of our patient's have >5-10 patterns SIMULTANEOUSLY). This does not require anything more than the >28 pulses. In fact, methodologically, this process cannot currently >accomodate anything more than the 28 pulse and 10 death pulses. (To >accomodate more pulse images, we would have to redefine the "standard" >signs and symptoms of our "standard" patterns.) > >If one has 5-10 patterns presenting simultaneously, the trick is not to >feel some arcane, esoteric pulse but to interpret what a specific >combination of pulse images mean in a particular patient at a particular >moment in time. For instance, let's say the patient has the following pulse >images: > >Speed: slightly fast, 90 bpm > >Rt: >Inch: Vacuous >Bar: Soggy, slightly slippery on pressing and searching >Cubit: Slippery, bowstring, and deep, but only normally deep, not >abnormally deep > >Lft: >Inch: Soggy >Bar: floating, bowstring & fine >Cubit: floating, bowstring & fine > >This is a real-life pulse picture taken from my patient files. Even without >the corroborating general signs and symptoms and tongue signs, we can say >the following things about the patient's probable patterns (which we then >could easily corroborate by those signs and symptoms and tongue signs): > >The right bar soggy pulse tells us there is a spleen qi vacuity with >probably engenderment of dampness and the spleen not engendering and >transforming the blood. The left bar position tells us there is liver >depression qi stagnation at least in part associated with blood and yin not >nourishing and moistening the liver. The fact that the right bar is >slightly bowstring on pressing and searching tells us the liver is invading >the spleen. So now we know there is a liver-spleen disharmony. > >The right cubit position tells us that there is dampness and probably heat >in the lower burner (due to spleen vacuity). the sligfhtly rapid pulse >tells us there is some sort of evil heat, probably vacuity but definitely >associated with vacuity. The left cubit position tells us that there is >kidney yin vacuity. (Now we know there is dual liver-kidney yin vacuity). > >The floating images in the inch positions further confirm there is yin >vacuity (yin not controlling yang which is counterflowing upward). The >right inch suggests that the lung qi is also vacuous due to a probable >combination of A) the heat of damp heat below ascending to collect in the >lungs and consume the qi and B) spleen vacuity not upbearing the clear to >form the ancestral or chest qi. The left inch suggests that the heart >spirit is not being constructed and nourished properly, and so there are >probably symptoms of the spirit not being quiet or calm. > >>From here you need to have a good grasp of advanced Chinese medical theory. >Since the bowstring pulse suggests that the qi is not flowing freely, >especially in the lower part of the body, we might expect menstrual or >reproductive pain in females and/or damp heat urinary or impediment >problems in both males and females. Because the qi moves the blood and >because of the interrelationships of the six depressions (liu yu), qi >stagnation may have given rise to blood stasis, but we may have to confirm >this by one of our other streams of information, NOT the pulse. Further, >since damp heat may cause ministerial fire to stir or counterflow upward, >thus leaving its lower source vacuous and cold, there may be kidney yang >vacuity below which also does not manifest in the pulse but which must be >confirmed or denied by other streams of information, such as questioning. >Because of the interrealtionship between former and latter heavens, >long-standing spleen vacuity may easily lead to kidney yang vacuity. Sex >and age will also play their part in determining the presence of such yang >vacuity which commonly does NOT manifest in the pulse because the pulse is >located in the upper part of the body and heat (which is yang) inherently >travels upward. Another way to explain this is to say that the pulse is >ruled by the heart (xin zhu mai) and the heart is in the upper part of the >body. In either case, in most cases of yang vacuity in our patients, yang >vacuity does not manifest as a slow, deep pulse. In fact, it only manifests >in the pulse at all by indirect inference, not direct image. > >This process has its own complexity, but it is not the complexity of some >supernormal dexterity, mystical intuition, or esoteric knowledge. It has to >do with 1) feeling relatively easy to distinguish feelings, 2) labelling >these feelings, and then 3) interpreting these feelings correctly when >taken as a total gestalt. > >In terms of the pulse example above, this patient's patterns are: 1) a >liver-spleen disharmony (this is an abbreviation for saying A) liver >depression qi stagnation and B) spleen qi vacuity weakness, 2) dual >liver-kidney yin vacuity (with possible yang vacuity yet to be >established), 3) probably damp heat impediment complicated by 4) >malnourishment of the sinews, 5) possible blood stasis, and 6) lung-heart >vacuity at the very least. Since a lung qi vacuity is as good as saying a >defensive qi vacuity, this person is easily susceptible to external >invasion. So the presence of external evils lodged in the exterior (7) >would also have to be considered. > >Capisce? > >Bob > >> [Original Message] >> HappyHerbalist.com <Health (AT) HappyHerbalist (DOT) com> >> >> 05/21/2000 5:18:48 PM >> RE: pulses >> >> Those are the only pulses and details in 98% of the clinical cases >> that I encountered while attending clinic rounds at Five Branches (Santa >> Cruz, CA.) the Oriental Heath Sciences Academy (Oakland,CA. - sorry I >seem >> to have forgotten their name)and the now defunct San Francisco College of >> Acupuncture. All my clinical teachers were from Taiwan or Shanghai. My >> tutorial teacher (Dr Wu from Tianjin, China) was better with more nuances, >> like Kidney Yang Floating and would bring me in to feel any unusual >pulses. >> But again in his diagnosis for me would give only the main pulse sign. The >> tongue played a prominent role. BTW he's and excellent herbalist. >> >> My 5 element friends all know pulses far far better than I - except they >> don't know herbs. >> >> <<snipped>> The vast majority of instances I found were for three >qualities: >> >> 1. slippery in the spleen position >> >> 2. wiry in the liver position >> >> 3. weak in the kidney position >> >> Ed Kasper L.Ac., Santa Cruz, California >> >> >> ------ >> Missing old school friends? Find them here: >> http://click./1/4055/9/_/542111/_/958951117/ >> ------ >> >> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help >> > > > >--- Robert Flaws >--- bobflaws (AT) earthlink (DOT) net >--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > >------ >Missing old school friends? Find them here: >http://click./1/4055/9/_/542111/_/959024080/ >------ > >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2000 Report Share Posted May 22, 2000 Zev: Like you, I appreciate Bob's work. In fact, the Blue Poppy translation of the Mai Jing is on my list of " Top 10 Books of the Milleneum " in the next issue of OMJ. I've been emphasizing the Nan Jing pulse information simply because it is the most recent in my mind as this semester draws to a close, and it is conspicuously absent in most discussions (and from what I can tell, missing from teaching in general). Like you, I've probably seen all the movements described by the Li Shi-zhen, and some that are not. The theoretical information is easily available from the Nan Jing. With several translations of the Nan Jing available, that information need not be considered esoteric. Incorporating the Mai Jing information into practice is more difficult. But each classic (in the order: LSz, NJ, MJ) adds a greater depth and wider perspective to the way we can practice pulse diagnosis. They fit together well. Though it takes time and effort to learn the tactile part of it, anyone with perseverence will greatly expand their knowledge. Admittedly, it may take 1-3 years to develop proficiency; but this is the case with most areas of Chinese medicine in general. In a few years, I would expect this level of knowledge to become fairly wide spread. Jim Ramholz , " " <zrosenberg@p...> wrote: > As usual, I enjoy the clarity of Bob's material and points of view. He has expressed very important information in this posting in a practical and condensed manner. For myself, however, I would like to point out that in my practice that I do see a lot of unusual pulses, especially se mai/scattered pulses, as well as the scallion-stalk and water dripping pulses. This may be because of the number of patients I see with cancer or lupus, who are undergoing chemotherapy and/or radiation and other strong biomedical treatments. So it is important that we teach and share them. Many of our students at PCOM are doing their clinical intership at a hospice, and see these pulses weekly. Also, for practitioners of acupuncture, learning Nan Jing pulse techniques is essential; the pulse qualities that Bob describes are <italic>largely</italic> connected with internal, i.e. Chinese herbal medicine. I think Jim Ramholz emphasizes Nan Jing pulses in his work. However, the expression needs to be clarified. Without access to Wiseman translation terminology, pulse images become obscured and difficult to communicate. >Given the nature of our out-patient clientele, their lifestyles, age, sex, >and the kinds of problems that we are primarily called on to treat, only >approximately half of the 28 pulse images present on a day in/day out basis >(at least in terms of mainstream Chinese pulse diagnosis as practiced since >the late 16th century on the Mainland). In my experience, these are: > >1. Slippery >2. Bowstring >3. Fine >4. Soggy >5. Floating >6. Deep >7. Fast >8. Slow >9. Moderate (i.e., slightly slow) >10. Knotted >11. Intermittent >12. Vacuous >13. Short (meaning the pulse does not reach into the inch position) > >Some of these are already compound pulses (i.e., pulse images made up of >elements of one or more simpler pulse images). For instance, the soggy >pulse is floating, fine, and forceless. The vacuous pulse is floating, >large (i.e., wide), and forceless. In addition, most of the rest of the 28 >are only more extreme variations of these core 13. For instance, the faint >pulse is only very, very fine and forceless. The weak pulse is only deep, >slow, and forceless. The hidden pulse is only very, very deep, and not >particularly forceful, etc. If one memorizes these definitions, these other >pulses are not at all difficult to feel and identify when they happen to >appear. > >Some of the other 28 pulses are so extreme that we just don't see them in >our mostly out-patient, " walking wounded, " chronic disease settings. If you >want to feel the scallion-stalk, racing, water-dripping, shrimp swimming >pulses, you need to ride in an ambulance, work in the ER or in ICU. Or you >need to hang out with patients in hospices. > >Otherwise, in our clinical practice in the U.S. and Europe, the key trick >is not to feel and distinguish the pulse images that tend to repeat over >and over again (that's relatively easy!), but to interpret what these pulse >images mean when they show up in combination in the different positions. > >One of my Chinese teachers in Shanghai in 1982 pleaded with me not to >mystify myself. If took me another half dozen years to understand and >ACCEPT what she was trying to tell me. I was so biased by my orientialist >romanticism, I just couldn't let her advice based on 20 years of experience >in. My cup was too full. I suspect my advice is going to fall on a lot of >deaf ears. It certainly has in the past. But I think I do understand where >a lot of us are coming from since I came from exactly the same place or >even more so. Please, as a profession, let's not over-mystify pulse >examination. > >This is a general tendency many of us have within this profession, and my >experience is that this tendency is even more pronounced when it comes to >the pulse. It is so easy for charlatans (even in China) to bamboozle the >uninitiated about this. This is exactly why Zhang Jing-yue, one of the >greatest medical thinkers and writers of his day (late Ming) said that >pulse examination should come AFTER looking and questioning. In order to >emphasize the role of questioning and de-romanticize, de-mystify the pulse, >he authored the 10 Questions. > >We don't need to make this method of examination any more difficult than it >is. A pattern (zheng) is made up of the convergence and corroboration of >three streams of information based on the Four Examinations: 1) general >signs and symptoms, 2) tongue signs, and 3) pulse signs. Since treatment in >standard professional Chinese medicine is ultimately predicated on pattern >discrimination (bian zheng lun zhi), the information we need to gather to >plan our treatments is only that information necessary to confirm or deny a >pattern discrimination (also given the fact that most of our patient's have >5-10 patterns SIMULTANEOUSLY). This does not require anything more than the >28 pulses. In fact, methodologically, this process cannot currently >accomodate anything more than the 28 pulse and 10 death pulses. (To >accomodate more pulse images, we would have to redefine the " standard " >signs and symptoms of our " standard " patterns.) > >If one has 5-10 patterns presenting simultaneously, the trick is not to >feel some arcane, esoteric pulse but to interpret what a specific >combination of pulse images mean in a particular patient at a particular >moment in time. For instance, let's say the patient has the following pulse >images: > >Speed: slightly fast, 90 bpm > >Rt: >Inch: Vacuous >Bar: Soggy, slightly slippery on pressing and searching >Cubit: Slippery, bowstring, and deep, but only normally deep, not >abnormally deep > >Lft: >Inch: Soggy >Bar: floating, bowstring & fine >Cubit: floating, bowstring & fine > >This is a real-life pulse picture taken from my patient files. Even without >the corroborating general signs and symptoms and tongue signs, we can say >the following things about the patient's probable patterns (which we then >could easily corroborate by those signs and symptoms and tongue signs): > >The right bar soggy pulse tells us there is a spleen qi vacuity with >probably engenderment of dampness and the spleen not engendering and >transforming the blood. The left bar position tells us there is liver >depression qi stagnation at least in part associated with blood and yin not >nourishing and moistening the liver. The fact that the right bar is >slightly bowstring on pressing and searching tells us the liver is invading >the spleen. So now we know there is a liver-spleen disharmony. > >The right cubit position tells us that there is dampness and probably heat >in the lower burner (due to spleen vacuity). the sligfhtly rapid pulse >tells us there is some sort of evil heat, probably vacuity but definitely >associated with vacuity. The left cubit position tells us that there is >kidney yin vacuity. (Now we know there is dual liver-kidney yin vacuity). > >The floating images in the inch positions further confirm there is yin >vacuity (yin not controlling yang which is counterflowing upward). The >right inch suggests that the lung qi is also vacuous due to a probable >combination of A) the heat of damp heat below ascending to collect in the >lungs and consume the qi and B) spleen vacuity not upbearing the clear to >form the ancestral or chest qi. The left inch suggests that the heart >spirit is not being constructed and nourished properly, and so there are >probably symptoms of the spirit not being quiet or calm. > >>From here you need to have a good grasp of advanced Chinese medical theory. >Since the bowstring pulse suggests that the qi is not flowing freely, >especially in the lower part of the body, we might expect menstrual or >reproductive pain in females and/or damp heat urinary or impediment >problems in both males and females. Because the qi moves the blood and >because of the interrelationships of the six depressions (liu yu), qi >stagnation may have given rise to blood stasis, but we may have to confirm >this by one of our other streams of information, NOT the pulse. Further, >since damp heat may cause ministerial fire to stir or counterflow upward, >thus leaving its lower source vacuous and cold, there may be kidney yang >vacuity below which also does not manifest in the pulse but which must be >confirmed or denied by other streams of information, such as questioning. >Because of the interrealtionship between former and latter heavens, >long-standing spleen vacuity may easily lead to kidney yang vacuity. Sex >and age will also play their part in determining the presence of such yang >vacuity which commonly does NOT manifest in the pulse because the pulse is >located in the upper part of the body and heat (which is yang) inherently >travels upward. Another way to explain this is to say that the pulse is >ruled by the heart (xin zhu mai) and the heart is in the upper part of the >body. In either case, in most cases of yang vacuity in our patients, yang >vacuity does not manifest as a slow, deep pulse. In fact, it only manifests >in the pulse at all by indirect inference, not direct image. > >This process has its own complexity, but it is not the complexity of some >supernormal dexterity, mystical intuition, or esoteric knowledge. It has to >do with 1) feeling relatively easy to distinguish feelings, 2) labelling >these feelings, and then 3) interpreting these feelings correctly when >taken as a total gestalt. > >In terms of the pulse example above, this patient's patterns are: 1) a >liver-spleen disharmony (this is an abbreviation for saying A) liver >depression qi stagnation and B) spleen qi vacuity weakness, 2) dual >liver-kidney yin vacuity (with possible yang vacuity yet to be >established), 3) probably damp heat impediment complicated by 4) >malnourishment of the sinews, 5) possible blood stasis, and 6) lung-heart >vacuity at the very least. Since a lung qi vacuity is as good as saying a >defensive qi vacuity, this person is easily susceptible to external >invasion. So the presence of external evils lodged in the exterior (7) >would also have to be considered. > >Capisce? > >Bob > >> [Original Message] >> HappyHerbalist.com <<Health >> < >> 05/21/2000 5:18:48 PM >> RE: pulses >> >> Those are the only pulses and details in 98% of the clinical cases >> that I encountered while attending clinic rounds at Five Branches (Santa >> Cruz, CA.) the Oriental Heath Sciences Academy (Oakland,CA. - sorry I >seem >> to have forgotten their name)and the now defunct San Francisco College of >> Acupuncture. All my clinical teachers were from Taiwan or Shanghai. My >> tutorial teacher (Dr Wu from Tianjin, China) was better with more nuances, >> like Kidney Yang Floating and would bring me in to feel any unusual >pulses. >> But again in his diagnosis for me would give only the main pulse sign. The >> tongue played a prominent role. BTW he's and excellent herbalist. >> >> My 5 element friends all know pulses far far better than I - except they >> don't know herbs. >> >> <<<<snipped>> The vast majority of instances I found were for three >qualities: >> >> 1. slippery in the spleen position >> >> 2. wiry in the liver position >> >> 3. weak in the kidney position >> >> Ed Kasper L.Ac., Santa Cruz, California >> >> >> ---- -- >> Missing old school friends? Find them here: >> http://click./1/4055/9/_/542111/_/958951117/ >> ---- -- >> >> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help >> > > > >--- Robert Flaws >--- bobflaws >--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > >--- --- >Missing old school friends? Find them here: >http://click./1/4055/9/_/542111/_/959024080/ >--- --- > >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2000 Report Share Posted May 23, 2000 One has to remember that a large majority of American practitioners of Chinese medicine practice both acumoxatherapy and herbal medicine, for better or for worse. I know my practice is about 50/50. It is my opinion that a channel-based acupuncture, rooted in the Nan Jing and other acupuncture texts, is more effective than TCM acupuncture in many circumstances. Therefore, knowledge of Nan Jing pulses becomes essential for clinical practice of effective acupuncture. Also, the 28 pulse qualities, as you know, have different and more specific meanings in different positions and clinical situations. Another great translated classic on pulses (from Blue Poppy) is " Master Hua's Classic of the Central Viscera " . Lots of rich detail. > >It is my observation, however, that the herbal texts I am familiar with >place little or no emphasis on nan jing style 12 position pulse dx. The >majority of the time, pulse is described in general terms like wiry, >deep or slippery, without regard to position in terms of cun , guan and >chi positions. This is true whether we are talking about classics like >zhu dan xi, basics like Fundamentals of CM or advanced internal >medicine, like Philippe sionneau's Tx of Dz in TCM. In some cases, >reference is made to position, but this is fairly circumscribed. The >vast majority of instances I found were for three qualities: > >1. slippery in the spleen position > >2. wiry in the liver position > >3. weak in the kidney position > >Clinical use of the nanjing positions for SI, PC, TB, LI, BL in herbal >texts is even rarer and never mainstream, as far as I can tell. While >these very systematized ideas from acupuncture theory were toyed with >during the jin-yuan, according to Unschuld, they ultimately never took >hold among most herbalists. Li shi zhen certainly discussed cun, guan >and chi in every chapter of his pulse classic, but it is worth noting >that this work was a later attempt to systematize all prior knowledge >and perhaps did not necessarily reflect actual practice through much of >Chinese history. > >As to the 28 general pulses of Li shi zhen, I can only observe that most >of the clinically meaningful information seems to be connected to >combinations of fairly straightforward qualities, such as >floating/sinking, slippery/choppy, xu/shi, fast/slow and wiry/tight. >this would lend support to Flaws contention that the main clinical skill >in pulse dx for an herbalist is memorizing these combinations and >relationships. > >Pragmatically, I'm not sure what role any additional nuancing in pulse >dx would play in my selection of herbs. However, the relationship >between nanjing style pulsetaking and acumoxatherapy is certainly a >different story altogether, one I can't really comment upon at all. > >Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2000 Report Share Posted May 23, 2000 Z'ev, I was only talking about Chinese pulse examination since the late Ming. In standard professional Chinese medicine as practice in the PRC, this system is used in the acupuncture, tui na, and internal medicine departments. In my experience, it works fine for acupuncture. However, if you think the Nan Jing system of pulse examination is better for acupuncture, I have no problem with that. It all depends on your style of acupuncture and how you plan and implement treatment. Bob > [Original Message] > <zrosenberg > > 05/22/2000 5:02:40 PM > RE: pulses > > As usual, I enjoy the clarity of Bob's material and points of view. He > has expressed very important information in this posting in a practical > and condensed manner. > > > For myself, however, I would like to point out that in my practice that > I do see a lot of unusual pulses, especially se mai/scattered pulses, > as well as the scallion-stalk and water dripping pulses. This may be > because of the number of patients I see with cancer or lupus, who are > undergoing chemotherapy and/or radiation and other strong biomedical > treatments. So it is important that we teach and share them. Many of > our students at PCOM are doing their clinical intership at a hospice, > and see these pulses weekly. > > > Also, for practitioners of acupuncture, learning Nan Jing pulse > techniques is essential; the pulse qualities that Bob describes are > <italic>largely</italic> connected with internal, i.e. Chinese herbal > medicine. I think Jim Ramholz emphasizes Nan Jing pulses in his work. > However, the expression needs to be clarified. Without access to > Wiseman translation terminology, pulse images become obscured and > difficult to communicate. > > > > > > > > >Given the nature of our out-patient clientele, their lifestyles, age, > sex, > > >and the kinds of problems that we are primarily called on to treat, > only > > >approximately half of the 28 pulse images present on a day in/day out > basis > > >(at least in terms of mainstream Chinese pulse diagnosis as practiced > since > > >the late 16th century on the Mainland). In my experience, these are: > > > > > >1. Slippery > > >2. Bowstring > > >3. Fine > > >4. Soggy > > >5. Floating > > >6. Deep > > >7. Fast > > >8. Slow > > >9. Moderate (i.e., slightly slow) > > >10. Knotted > > >11. Intermittent > > >12. Vacuous > > >13. Short (meaning the pulse does not reach into the inch position) > > > > > >Some of these are already compound pulses (i.e., pulse images made up > of > > >elements of one or more simpler pulse images). For instance, the > soggy > > >pulse is floating, fine, and forceless. The vacuous pulse is > floating, > > >large (i.e., wide), and forceless. In addition, most of the rest of > the 28 > > >are only more extreme variations of these core 13. For instance, the > faint > > >pulse is only very, very fine and forceless. The weak pulse is only > deep, > > >slow, and forceless. The hidden pulse is only very, very deep, and > not > > >particularly forceful, etc. If one memorizes these definitions, these > other > > >pulses are not at all difficult to feel and identify when they happen > to > > >appear. > > > > > >Some of the other 28 pulses are so extreme that we just don't see them > in > > >our mostly out-patient, " walking wounded, " chronic disease settings. > If you > > >want to feel the scallion-stalk, racing, water-dripping, shrimp > swimming > > >pulses, you need to ride in an ambulance, work in the ER or in ICU. Or > you > > >need to hang out with patients in hospices. > > > > > >Otherwise, in our clinical practice in the U.S. and Europe, the key > trick > > >is not to feel and distinguish the pulse images that tend to repeat > over > > >and over again (that's relatively easy!), but to interpret what these > pulse > > >images mean when they show up in combination in the different > positions. > > > > > >One of my Chinese teachers in Shanghai in 1982 pleaded with me not to > > >mystify myself. If took me another half dozen years to understand and > > >ACCEPT what she was trying to tell me. I was so biased by my > orientialist > > >romanticism, I just couldn't let her advice based on 20 years of > experience > > >in. My cup was too full. I suspect my advice is going to fall on a lot > of > > >deaf ears. It certainly has in the past. But I think I do understand > where > > >a lot of us are coming from since I came from exactly the same place > or > > >even more so. Please, as a profession, let's not over-mystify pulse > > >examination. > > > > > >This is a general tendency many of us have within this profession, and > my > > >experience is that this tendency is even more pronounced when it comes > to > > >the pulse. It is so easy for charlatans (even in China) to bamboozle > the > > >uninitiated about this. This is exactly why Zhang Jing-yue, one of > the > > >greatest medical thinkers and writers of his day (late Ming) said > that > > >pulse examination should come AFTER looking and questioning. In order > to > > >emphasize the role of questioning and de-romanticize, de-mystify the > pulse, > > >he authored the 10 Questions. > > > > > >We don't need to make this method of examination any more difficult > than it > > >is. A pattern (zheng) is made up of the convergence and corroboration > of > > >three streams of information based on the Four Examinations: 1) > general > > >signs and symptoms, 2) tongue signs, and 3) pulse signs. Since > treatment in > > >standard professional Chinese medicine is ultimately predicated on > pattern > > >discrimination (bian zheng lun zhi), the information we need to gather > to > > >plan our treatments is only that information necessary to confirm or > deny a > > >pattern discrimination (also given the fact that most of our patient's > have > > >5-10 patterns SIMULTANEOUSLY). This does not require anything more > than the > > >28 pulses. In fact, methodologically, this process cannot currently > > >accomodate anything more than the 28 pulse and 10 death pulses. (To > > >accomodate more pulse images, we would have to redefine the > " standard " > > >signs and symptoms of our " standard " patterns.) > > > > > >If one has 5-10 patterns presenting simultaneously, the trick is not > to > > >feel some arcane, esoteric pulse but to interpret what a specific > > >combination of pulse images mean in a particular patient at a > particular > > >moment in time. For instance, let's say the patient has the following > pulse > > >images: > > > > > >Speed: slightly fast, 90 bpm > > > > > >Rt: > > >Inch: Vacuous > > >Bar: Soggy, slightly slippery on pressing and searching > > >Cubit: Slippery, bowstring, and deep, but only normally deep, not > > >abnormally deep > > > > > >Lft: > > >Inch: Soggy > > >Bar: floating, bowstring & fine > > >Cubit: floating, bowstring & fine > > > > > >This is a real-life pulse picture taken from my patient files. Even > without > > >the corroborating general signs and symptoms and tongue signs, we can > say > > >the following things about the patient's probable patterns (which we > then > > >could easily corroborate by those signs and symptoms and tongue > signs): > > > > > >The right bar soggy pulse tells us there is a spleen qi vacuity with > > >probably engenderment of dampness and the spleen not engendering and > > >transforming the blood. The left bar position tells us there is liver > > >depression qi stagnation at least in part associated with blood and > yin not > > >nourishing and moistening the liver. The fact that the right bar is > > >slightly bowstring on pressing and searching tells us the liver is > invading > > >the spleen. So now we know there is a liver-spleen disharmony. > > > > > >The right cubit position tells us that there is dampness and probably > heat > > >in the lower burner (due to spleen vacuity). the sligfhtly rapid > pulse > > >tells us there is some sort of evil heat, probably vacuity but > definitely > > >associated with vacuity. The left cubit position tells us that there > is > > >kidney yin vacuity. (Now we know there is dual liver-kidney yin > vacuity). > > > > > >The floating images in the inch positions further confirm there is > yin > > >vacuity (yin not controlling yang which is counterflowing upward). > The > > >right inch suggests that the lung qi is also vacuous due to a > probable > > >combination of A) the heat of damp heat below ascending to collect in > the > > >lungs and consume the qi and B) spleen vacuity not upbearing the clear > to > > >form the ancestral or chest qi. The left inch suggests that the heart > > >spirit is not being constructed and nourished properly, and so there > are > > >probably symptoms of the spirit not being quiet or calm. > > > > > >>From here you need to have a good grasp of advanced Chinese medical > theory. > > >Since the bowstring pulse suggests that the qi is not flowing freely, > > >especially in the lower part of the body, we might expect menstrual > or > > >reproductive pain in females and/or damp heat urinary or impediment > > >problems in both males and females. Because the qi moves the blood > and > > >because of the interrelationships of the six depressions (liu yu), qi > > >stagnation may have given rise to blood stasis, but we may have to > confirm > > >this by one of our other streams of information, NOT the pulse. > Further, > > >since damp heat may cause ministerial fire to stir or counterflow > upward, > > >thus leaving its lower source vacuous and cold, there may be kidney > yang > > >vacuity below which also does not manifest in the pulse but which must > be > > >confirmed or denied by other streams of information, such as > questioning. > > >Because of the interrealtionship between former and latter heavens, > > >long-standing spleen vacuity may easily lead to kidney yang vacuity. > Sex > > >and age will also play their part in determining the presence of such > yang > > >vacuity which commonly does NOT manifest in the pulse because the > pulse is > > >located in the upper part of the body and heat (which is yang) > inherently > > >travels upward. Another way to explain this is to say that the pulse > is > > >ruled by the heart (xin zhu mai) and the heart is in the upper part of > the > > >body. In either case, in most cases of yang vacuity in our patients, > yang > > >vacuity does not manifest as a slow, deep pulse. In fact, it only > manifests > > >in the pulse at all by indirect inference, not direct image. > > > > > >This process has its own complexity, but it is not the complexity of > some > > >supernormal dexterity, mystical intuition, or esoteric knowledge. It > has to > > >do with 1) feeling relatively easy to distinguish feelings, 2) > labelling > > >these feelings, and then 3) interpreting these feelings correctly > when > > >taken as a total gestalt. > > > > > >In terms of the pulse example above, this patient's patterns are: 1) > a > > >liver-spleen disharmony (this is an abbreviation for saying A) liver > > >depression qi stagnation and B) spleen qi vacuity weakness, 2) dual > > >liver-kidney yin vacuity (with possible yang vacuity yet to be > > >established), 3) probably damp heat impediment complicated by 4) > > >malnourishment of the sinews, 5) possible blood stasis, and 6) > lung-heart > > >vacuity at the very least. Since a lung qi vacuity is as good as > saying a > > >defensive qi vacuity, this person is easily susceptible to external > > >invasion. So the presence of external evils lodged in the exterior > (7) > > >would also have to be considered. > > > > > >Capisce? > > > > > >Bob > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > >> HappyHerbalist.com <<Health > > >> < > > >> 05/21/2000 5:18:48 PM > > >> RE: pulses > > >> > > >> Those are the only pulses and details in 98% of the clinical > cases > > >> that I encountered while attending clinic rounds at Five Branches > (Santa > > >> Cruz, CA.) the Oriental Heath Sciences Academy (Oakland,CA. - > sorry I > > >seem > > >> to have forgotten their name)and the now defunct San Francisco > College of > > >> Acupuncture. All my clinical teachers were from Taiwan or Shanghai. > My > > >> tutorial teacher (Dr Wu from Tianjin, China) was better with more > nuances, > > >> like Kidney Yang Floating and would bring me in to feel any unusual > > >pulses. > > >> But again in his diagnosis for me would give only the main pulse > sign. The > > >> tongue played a prominent role. BTW he's and excellent herbalist. > > >> > > >> My 5 element friends all know pulses far far better than I - except > they > > >> don't know herbs. > > >> > > >> <<<<snipped>> The vast majority of instances I found were for three > > >qualities: > > >> > > >> 1. slippery in the spleen position > > >> > > >> 2. wiry in the liver position > > >> > > >> 3. weak in the kidney position > > >> > > >> Ed Kasper L.Ac., Santa Cruz, California > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------ > > >> Missing old school friends? Find them here: > > >> http://click./1/4055/9/_/542111/_/958951117/ > > >> > ------ > > >> > > >> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >--- Robert Flaws > > >--- bobflaws > > >--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > > > > > > >------ > > >Missing old school friends? Find them here: > > >http://click./1/4055/9/_/542111/_/959024080/ > > >------ > > > > > >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > > > > > --- Robert Flaws --- bobflaws --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2000 Report Share Posted May 23, 2000 If you are talking about Cheng Dan-an's acupuncture style, or the material that you translated in " Sticking to the Point " Volume 2, I agree. It is a very sophisticated approach to acupuncture, and has influenced my practice a great deal. But most Western practitioners of TCM acupuncture have not, seemingly, been exposed to this material. >Z'ev, > >I was only talking about Chinese pulse examination since the late Ming. In >standard professional Chinese medicine as practice in the PRC, this system >is used in the acupuncture, tui na, and internal medicine departments. In >my experience, it works fine for acupuncture. However, if you think the Nan >Jing system of pulse examination is better for acupuncture, I have no >problem with that. It all depends on your style of acupuncture and how you >plan and implement treatment. > >Bob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2000 Report Share Posted May 23, 2000 What would you (et al) advice a newly licensed Acupuncturist /herbalist -or one with little experience in pulse diagnosis to become proficient at pulse diagnosis ? Books are excellent for groundwork and preparation (and refining skills once one has accomplishments) yet one cannot learn from books alone CEU and weekend classes are (in my opinion) superficial unless applied to a larger structure Practice and Experience are insightful yet may lead one astray. In my limited experience Five Element patricitionors " speak the same language " universally. And this successfully leads to greater dialogue, understanding and diagnosis. While TCM pulse takers can only communicate on a very limited scale. I think this is based on the Structure of the education system not upon the thirst of the students. Thank you Ed Kasper L.Ac., Santa Cruz, California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2000 Report Share Posted May 23, 2000 Hi Ed, > What would you (et al) advice a newly licensed Acupuncturist /herbalist -or > one with little experience in pulse diagnosis to become proficient at pulse > diagnosis ? I'd say the first step is a recognition of its status as a component in a rather complex system of understanding both normal physiology as well as diagnosis of pathogenic processes within the body. When I spent several months apprenticing under the head of the acupuncture department at the teaching hospital attached to the Chengdu University of TCM, Dr. Wang must have told me ten thousand times to " look at the patient. " We'd see twenty or thirty patients a morning, day after day, from 8:30 until noon, just doing intake interviews and diagnosing patient after patient. Each one began with the same admonition, as if it were the very first time he'd said it. " You must look at the patient. " He taught me in this way to understand that the most important thing about diagnosis was the gathering of information, sense impressions of the person sitting in front us. With time I've come to understand that the capacity to receive information through all the sensory channels is of fundamental importance in conducting a proper diagnostic interview using traditional Chinese medical means. I believe this is one of the great treasures in the great treasure house of traditional Chinese medicine, this expertise in physical medicine, the ability to know what is going on with patients by looking at them, touching them, listening to them, smelling them, and so on. I see this aspect of the doctor/patient interaction as being a critical aspect of Chinese medicine's recent ascendency on the American scene. People want doctors who will pay attention to them and to the extent that we develop such capacities, which lie at the core of traditional Chinese clinical medicine, we can succor a great wound that the modern medical and health care system has administered to the citizenry. It is a pretty short step to the awareness that what we are talking about in traditional Chinese diagnostics is the development of an athletic ability. Quite a refined, one would have to say, rarefied art. In my personal training it has become inseparable from my decades-long quest to cultivate the capacity to listen to an opponent (or patient) with my whole body/mind. I refer specifically to the practice of push-hands in taijiquan, wherein two practitioners mutually cultivate one another's awareness and capacity to " give up yourself and follow others. " It takes decades for true skill to emerge. It is simply not reasonable to expect that such skill could emerge easily or early on in one's training. Proficiency? I suggest we lower our aim, if only to begin with. How about we design a curriculum that brings together in one focus all the critical elements a student would have to comprehend and be able to coordinate the use of in order to conduct a successful diagnosis of a patient? Then we would have a proper context in which instruction in pulse diagnosis could be realistically expected to take place with some meaningsul result. I'd put on this list: -an understanding of yin/yang and qi -a thorough grasp of jing luo, not merely the numbers of points on channels, but a comprehensive sense of how the qi circulates throughout the body, interconnecting it into a micro-cosm of the whole universe -a good grasp of zang fu theory and a working understanding of how zang fu and jing luo interconnect and interact so that the appearance of sensations beneath one's fingertips at the cun, quan, chi positions has an immediate meaning, and not merely an abstract set of correlations -a personal practice that serves to accumulate, cultivate, and refine one's personal qi as well as one's consciousness of qi and it's implications -gong fu that serves to develop one's listening power -the opportunity to feel the pulses of hundreds of people, both well and ill so that the information one receives can be compared to real experience -the guidance of a well-trained clinician who knows both the skill of pulse diagnosis and the significance of the data that one can develop therefrom -access to the literary sources; and -a good deal of patience > I think this is based on the Structure of the education system not upon the > thirst of the students. Amen. This brings the correct target clearly into focus: the structure of the education system. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 I agree about the need for demonstration. >>>>Will when are we going to see a blind study then? How about a blind study of Leon practitioner's since they all train in a similar system. This should be easy and cheep to do you only need 30 patients or so and about 9 practitioners. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Speaking of pulses - does anyone know of any CE in diagnosis happening this year? My pulse diagnosis class at school four years ago was not sufficient, and I have very little confidence in what I feel outside of " floating/deep " , " thin/thick " and " weak/strong " in various positions. Benjamin Hawes, MAOM, Lic. Ac., CORTEZ FAMILY ACUPUNCTURE 1430 E. Main Street, Suite #4 Cortez, CO 81321 (970) 565-0230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 may teach this in summer, Expert Pulse Diagnosis, and the distance learning DVD may be ready by then. earns 5 CEUS with NCCAOM and other states. offers an easier, non-mystical, common as latte, view. Dr. Keikobad CEUS by DVD www.acu-free.com Benjamin Hawes wrote: > Speaking of pulses - does anyone know of any CE in diagnosis happening > this > year? My pulse diagnosis class at school four years ago was not > sufficient, > and I have very little confidence in what I feel outside of > " floating/deep " , > " thin/thick " and " weak/strong " in various positions. > > Benjamin Hawes, MAOM, Lic. Ac., > Director > > CORTEZ FAMILY ACUPUNCTURE > 1430 E. Main Street, Suite #4 > Cortez, CO 81321 > (970) 565-0230 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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