Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals to get marketing training and do what they can to promote their individual practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we could enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run around trying to promote their individual practices, when we should have a public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice. I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well organized public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very interested in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad about it. They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain relationship. They are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow pages and pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign to make the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the acupuncture on them will make a world of difference. If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give us $1,000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone number to refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " As it is now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any idea that their is a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many just assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle to practice acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO CORRECT THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that showed that about 2% of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they would be interested in trying it. That means three times more people who have tried acupuncture would like to try it but have not because they do not know what to expect form pursuing treatment. Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great deal could be done with little money by developing a education campaign utilizing the print media and the Internet. More than anything, we need to develop a body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE authoritative body on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what the AMA is to American Western medicine. I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the right kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan calls for people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Matt Bauer wrote: <snip> > calls for people working collectively Hi Matt! Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Pete Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this Brother.......my general impression of your responses is one of whining and excessive negativity towards the suggestions offerred you. Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of healing and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course, follow. I would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and start the healing and the prosperity with yourself. - Pete Theisen Chinese Medicine Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM Re: Earning a living Matt Bauer wrote: <snip> > calls for people working collectively Hi Matt! Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively. Regards, Pete http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click on this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Absolutely. We need a voice in the media to speak for us. On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:32 PM, Matt Bauer wrote: > It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run around trying to > promote their individual practices, when we should have a public > outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Just something to consider: in Europe, it is forbidden to do marketing (any kind of marketing) when you are in the (para)medical field. When you sign up with a professional organisation, which is obliged by law in most of the European countries, you also agree with the deontological code of the professional organisation. In short, it means that you may never speak bad of your colleagues, nor are you allowed to put yourself forward as a better practitioner than your colleagues. We are allowed to give talks, and I think that is a very good thing- I agree with Matt Bauer's earlier post that a lot can be done to make folks aware of the benefits of , fewer side-effects, etc. Most of the successful practitioners I know, became so by good old-fashioned word of mouth. In Belgium, the better practitioners see 20 to 30 patients per day- seeing 3 or 4 people at the same moment. I don't know about you people, but I do feel that marketing feels a bit weird when you're in the field of medicine. We're there to try to solve people's problems, not to offer spa-like treatments that are mainly meant to make a person feel better. If the latter is what you're aiming for, then go for it. However that is not why I got interested in Chinese medicine. In short: I think that the only kind of 'marketing' that should be done is raising public awareness of the benefits of Chinese medicine. By talks, articles for magazines and newspapers,... all the rest depends on the practitioners and her/his skills, patient care and integrity. But you knew that. Reading a bit on what good patient care is, was helpful to me. Asking a person that you helped for a referral, is also a good thing to do, when you ask for it sincerely. I don't know if integrity can be achieved by reading books, but it is something that we can grow, right? Tom. ---- Matt Bauer 04/27/05 05:33:50 Chinese Medicine Earning a living I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals to get marketing training and do what they can to promote their individual practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we could enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run around trying to promote their individual practices, when we should have a public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice. I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well organized public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very interested in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad about it. They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain relationship. They are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow pages and pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign to make the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the acupuncture on them will make a world of difference. If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give us $1 000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone number to refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " As it is now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any idea that their is a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many just assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle to practice acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO CORRECT THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that showed that about 2% of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they would be interested in trying it. That means three times more people who have tried acupuncture would like to try it but have not because they do not know what to expect form pursuing treatment. Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great deal could be done with little money by developing a education campaign utilizing the print media and the Internet. More than anything, we need to develop a body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE authoritative body on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what the AMA is to American Western medicine. I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the right kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan calls for people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 --- Pete Theisen <petet wrote: Matt Bauer wrote: <snip> > calls for people working collectively Hi Matt! Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively. Regards, Pete< To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our association has created just that type of cooperative efforts to promote the proffesion. I and a few other senior practitioners also mentor newer practitioners and I offer cheap rent in my clinic to new practitioners to help them get there practices going. Doc I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; I will not refuse to do the something I can do. - Helen Keller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Tom Verhaeghe wrote: <snip> > I don't know about you people, but I do feel that marketing feels a bit > weird when you're in the field of medicine. Hi Dr. Tom! Yes, very well put. Weird is exactly how it feels. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Doc wrote: <snip> > > To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our association has created > just that type of cooperative efforts to Hi Doc! Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am yet to see it. The closest thing we have to working together is health fairs - and you have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had even one steady patient come from them. Give away a lot of free treatments, but when it comes to permanent patients, none. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Doc, I'd love to hear your secrets! I'm always looking for ways to improve my approach. Please share! Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Doc Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:36 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Earning a living Pete, If you want a set of proven ways to build a practice no matter where you are I can give them to you. Using these ideas I was even able to build a solid practice when I lived in Hong Kong. Too many pratitioners you say? I had more than 6 in the same building and about two dozen others in the few blocks surrounding my clinic. The rest were Hong Kong Ren I was the only Gwai Lo among the group. Yet being a newcomer, a Jewish kid from thev States etc I still built a practice that gave me money to live on. My secrets? Well if you are actually ready to stop saying " yes but... " and to take a positive approach I will gladly share my not so secret secrets to building a practice. Doc --- Pete Theisen <petet wrote: Doc wrote: <snip> > > To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our association has created > just that type of cooperative efforts to Hi Doc! Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am yet to see it. The closest thing we have to working together is health fairs - and you have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had even one steady patient come from them. Give away a lot of free treatments, but when it comes to permanent patients, none. Regards, Pete To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Pete, If you want a set of proven ways to build a practice no matter where you are I can give them to you. Using these ideas I was even able to build a solid practice when I lived in Hong Kong. Too many pratitioners you say? I had more than 6 in the same building and about two dozen others in the few blocks surrounding my clinic. The rest were Hong Kong Ren I was the only Gwai Lo among the group. Yet being a newcomer, a Jewish kid from thev States etc I still built a practice that gave me money to live on. My secrets? Well if you are actually ready to stop saying " yes but... " and to take a positive approach I will gladly share my not so secret secrets to building a practice. Doc --- Pete Theisen <petet wrote: Doc wrote: <snip> > > To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our association has created > just that type of cooperative efforts to Hi Doc! Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am yet to see it. The closest thing we have to working together is health fairs - and you have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had even one steady patient come from them. Give away a lot of free treatments, but when it comes to permanent patients, none. Regards, Pete To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Matt, I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on Pete for stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do not want to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth even if it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have witnessed some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in MN has been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving forward. There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation to allow L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might like challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own difficulties with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to take note of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First the problem needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may be things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it is also helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and locally in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to work together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party has done recently with nicer tactics. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Turiya Hill " <turiya >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >Re: Earning a living >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700 > >Pete > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this Brother.......my >general impression of your responses is one of whining and excessive >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you. > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of healing >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course, follow. I >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and start the >healing and the prosperity with yourself. > - > Pete Theisen > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM > Re: Earning a living > > > Matt Bauer wrote: > > <snip> > > > calls for people working collectively > > Hi Matt! > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively. > > Regards, > > Pete > > > >http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and adjust >accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the >group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 I think we all would like to benefit from your wisdom. I know I would. Thanks in advance. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac >Doc <Doc >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine >Re: Earning a living >Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:35:50 -0700 (PDT) > >Pete, >If you want a set of proven ways to build a practice >no matter where you are I can give them to you. >Using these ideas I was even able to build a solid >practice when I lived in Hong Kong. >Too many pratitioners you say? >I had more than 6 in the same building and about two >dozen others in the few blocks surrounding my clinic. >The rest were Hong Kong Ren I was the only Gwai Lo >among the group. >Yet being a newcomer, a Jewish kid from thev States >etc I still built a practice that gave me money to >live on. > >My secrets? >Well if you are actually ready to stop saying " yes >but... " and to take a positive approach I will gladly >share my not so secret secrets to building a practice. > >Doc >--- Pete Theisen <petet wrote: > >Doc wrote: > ><snip> > > > > To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our >association has created > > just that type of cooperative efforts to > >Hi Doc! > >Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am >yet to see it. >The closest thing we have to working together is >health fairs - and you >have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had >even one steady >patient come from them. Give away a lot of free >treatments, but when it >comes to permanent patients, none. > >Regards, > >Pete > > >To translate this message, copy and paste it into this >web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > >and adjust accordingly. > >Messages are the property of the author. Any >duplication outside the group requires prior >permission from the author. > >If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with >other academics, > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Matt, Very well said, you get my vote. When are you going to create this association? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > > Earning a living >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:32:57 -0700 > >I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this >profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that >continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals to get >marketing training and do what they can to promote their individual >practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we could >enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run >around trying to promote their individual practices, when we should have a >public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice. > >I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well organized >public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of >acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very interested >in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad about >it. They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain relationship. >They are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow pages >and pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign to >make the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the acupuncture on >them will make a world of difference. > >If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give us >$1,000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone number >to refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " As it >is now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any idea >that their is a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many >just assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle to >practice acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO CORRECT >THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that showed that >about 2% of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they would be >interested in trying it. That means three times more people who have tried >acupuncture would like to try it but have not because they do not know what >to expect form pursuing treatment. > >Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great deal >could be done with little money by developing a education campaign >utilizing the print media and the Internet. More than anything, we need to >develop a body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE >authoritative body on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what the AMA >is to American Western medicine. > >I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the right >kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of >money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan calls >for people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Mike , I have proposed such a Council - not a new association - to our two national (U.S.) OM associations. It would be made of representatives from those groups and would ONLY work on a public education campaign - NOT political issues. The E.O. of one association expressed great interest, I have not heard back from the Board of the other. - Matt - mike Bowser Chinese Medicine Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:55 AM RE: Earning a living Matt, Very well said, you get my vote. When are you going to create this association? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > > Earning a living >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:32:57 -0700 > >I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this >profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that >continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals to get >marketing training and do what they can to promote their individual >practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we could >enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run >around trying to promote their individual practices, when we should have a >public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice. > >I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well organized >public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of >acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very interested >in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad about >it. They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain relationship. >They are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow pages >and pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign to >make the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the acupuncture on >them will make a world of difference. > >If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give us >$1,000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone number >to refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " As it >is now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any idea >that their is a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many >just assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle to >practice acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO CORRECT >THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that showed that >about 2% of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they would be >interested in trying it. That means three times more people who have tried >acupuncture would like to try it but have not because they do not know what >to expect form pursuing treatment. > >Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great deal >could be done with little money by developing a education campaign >utilizing the print media and the Internet. More than anything, we need to >develop a body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE >authoritative body on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what the AMA >is to American Western medicine. > >I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the right >kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of >money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan calls >for people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 I disagree with you mike, The intent behind any of my words is to actually help Pete; this will not be done by re-enforcing his views which are causing him pain. As for the " truth " of course if we all look at something the same way we may call that " truth " If other practitioners (many)see things another way does this make it " false " The point is " does it help " OR " does it cause more pain? " Surely what is needed here is solutions NOT a constant focus on a " PART " of the picture. Ray Ford Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike Bowser Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:37 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Earning a living Matt, I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on Pete for stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do not want to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth even if it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have witnessed some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in MN has been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving forward. There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation to allow L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might like challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own difficulties with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to take note of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First the problem needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may be things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it is also helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and locally in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to work together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party has done recently with nicer tactics. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Turiya Hill " <turiya >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >Re: Earning a living >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700 > >Pete > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this Brother.......my >general impression of your responses is one of whining and excessive >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you. > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of healing >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course, follow. I >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and start the >healing and the prosperity with yourself. > - > Pete Theisen > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM > Re: Earning a living > > > Matt Bauer wrote: > > <snip> > > > calls for people working collectively > > Hi Matt! > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively. > > Regards, > > Pete > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, >http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and adjust >accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the >group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, > > > > >----- ------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Ray, I think that I was suggesting an all-inclusive focus on solutions as well at least that was my intention. Additionally, I would have to say then that we disagree with perceptions of things and whether we continue to wish it away and ignore it or admit it exists and change it. I believe that we need to be courageous in admitting the truth to ourselves instead of trying to placate those with other views. There is room for all of us. I do appreciate your view and dialogue and hope that all of us can better create that unity that we seek. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " ray ford " <rford >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >RE: Earning a living >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 02:26:44 +1000 > >I disagree with you mike, >The intent behind any of my words is to actually help Pete; this will >not be done by re-enforcing his views which are causing him pain. As for >the " truth " of course if we all look at something the same way we may >call that " truth " If other practitioners (many)see things another way >does this make it " false " The point is " does it help " OR " does it cause >more pain? " Surely what is needed here is solutions NOT a constant focus >on a " PART " of the picture. >Ray Ford > > > > > >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike >Bowser >Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:37 AM >Chinese Medicine >Re: Earning a living > > >Matt, >I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on Pete for > >stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do not >want >to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth even >if >it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have >witnessed >some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in MN has > >been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving >forward. >There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation to >allow >L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might like >challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own >difficulties >with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to take >note >of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First the >problem >needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may be >things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it is >also >helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and >locally >in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to work >together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party has >done >recently with nicer tactics. > > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > " Turiya Hill " <turiya > >Chinese Medicine > ><Chinese Medicine > > >Re: Earning a living > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700 > > > >Pete > > > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this Brother.......my > >general impression of your responses is one of whining and excessive > >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you. > > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of >healing > >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course, follow. I > >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling > >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and start >the > >healing and the prosperity with yourself. > > - > > Pete Theisen > > Chinese Medicine > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM > > Re: Earning a living > > > > > > Matt Bauer wrote: > > > > <snip> > > > > > calls for people working collectively > > > > Hi Matt! > > > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively. > > > > Regards, > > > > Pete > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link >page, > >http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > and >adjust > >accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > > >group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other >academics, > > > > > > > > > >----- >------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Matt, I almost think something like this would operate best as a separate entity where the resources could be directed at the task and not into other areas of operation, which seems to becoming more common today. You seem to have a good grasp of this subject which is why I nominated you. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >Re: Earning a living >Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:13:28 -0700 > >Mike , > >I have proposed such a Council - not a new association - to our two >national (U.S.) OM associations. It would be made of representatives from >those groups and would ONLY work on a public education campaign - NOT >political issues. The E.O. of one association expressed great interest, I >have not heard back from the Board of the other. - Matt > - > mike Bowser > Chinese Medicine > Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:55 AM > RE: Earning a living > > > Matt, > > Very well said, you get my vote. When are you going to create this > association? > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy > >Chinese Medicine > ><Chinese Medicine > > > Earning a living > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:32:57 -0700 > > > >I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this > >profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that > >continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals to get > >marketing training and do what they can to promote their individual > >practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we could > >enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run > >around trying to promote their individual practices, when we should >have a > >public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice. > > > >I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well >organized > >public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of > >acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very >interested > >in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad >about > >it. They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain >relationship. > >They are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow >pages > >and pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign >to > >make the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the >acupuncture on > >them will make a world of difference. > > > >If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give >us > >$1,000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone >number > >to refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " >As it > >is now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any >idea > >that their is a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many > >just assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle to > >practice acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO >CORRECT > >THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that showed that > >about 2% of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they would be > >interested in trying it. That means three times more people who have >tried > >acupuncture would like to try it but have not because they do not know >what > >to expect form pursuing treatment. > > > >Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great >deal > >could be done with little money by developing a education campaign > >utilizing the print media and the Internet. More than anything, we need >to > >develop a body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE > >authoritative body on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what the >AMA > >is to American Western medicine. > > > >I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the >right > >kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of > >money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan >calls > >for people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 There's a concept in Eastern lore, which says a healer has Shifa'A, or does not. Shifa'A is variously, clinical aptitude, the natural touch of the healer, knowledge, which can gained, wisdom, which can't, bedside manners, which are much like the table side ones you have at dinner, a pleasant style, a sedate nature. And the last of all, the Touch! And more interestingly, when the Ancients have applied this, they never meant a moneyed practice. If you have Shifa'A, set up a practice under the first tree on the byway to Byzantine, and by nightfall you will have clientele. Thus, like the Earth Pulse, if you have Shifa'A, you don't know it and don;'t knows what it feels like. If you don't .... You figure this one out. Holmes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Yes, please share your insights. Any help in this area is always appreciated. Thanks. Kim Blankenship, L.Ac. Doc <Doc wrote: Pete, If you want a set of proven ways to build a practice no matter where you are I can give them to you. Using these ideas I was even able to build a solid practice when I lived in Hong Kong. Too many pratitioners you say? I had more than 6 in the same building and about two dozen others in the few blocks surrounding my clinic. The rest were Hong Kong Ren I was the only Gwai Lo among the group. Yet being a newcomer, a Jewish kid from thev States etc I still built a practice that gave me money to live on. My secrets? Well if you are actually ready to stop saying " yes but... " and to take a positive approach I will gladly share my not so secret secrets to building a practice. Doc --- Pete Theisen <petet wrote: Doc wrote: <snip> > > To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our association has created > just that type of cooperative efforts to Hi Doc! Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am yet to see it. The closest thing we have to working together is health fairs - and you have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had even one steady patient come from them. Give away a lot of free treatments, but when it comes to permanent patients, none. Regards, Pete To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Mike, I was not suggesting that ANYONE wish anything away. Pete has poured his heart out on this forum and really I can see his posts as a call for help which is being offered by so many. This does not negate Pete's " truth " but he is in pain and your playing devil's advocate and telling him " yeah, we all agree ain " t it all bad and here is the TRUTH, and you hold onto that truth " is not helping at all. So much has to be done, you are so right there, education, co-operation etc but FIRST of all there has to be a reason to get out of bed in the morning, playing the " aint it all so bad tape " is a mighty strong reason to pull the covers over and go back to sleep. Ray Ford Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike Bowser Thursday, 28 April 2005 2:52 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Earning a living Ray, I think that I was suggesting an all-inclusive focus on solutions as well at least that was my intention. Additionally, I would have to say then that we disagree with perceptions of things and whether we continue to wish it away and ignore it or admit it exists and change it. I believe that we need to be courageous in admitting the truth to ourselves instead of trying to placate those with other views. There is room for all of us. I do appreciate your view and dialogue and hope that all of us can better create that unity that we seek. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " ray ford " <rford >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >RE: Earning a living >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 02:26:44 +1000 > >I disagree with you mike, >The intent behind any of my words is to actually help Pete; this will >not be done by re-enforcing his views which are causing him pain. As for >the " truth " of course if we all look at something the same way we may >call that " truth " If other practitioners (many)see things another way >does this make it " false " The point is " does it help " OR " does it cause >more pain? " Surely what is needed here is solutions NOT a constant focus >on a " PART " of the picture. >Ray Ford > > > > > >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike >Bowser >Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:37 AM >Chinese Medicine >Re: Earning a living > > >Matt, >I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on Pete for > >stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do not >want >to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth even >if >it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have >witnessed >some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in MN has > >been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving >forward. >There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation to >allow >L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might like >challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own >difficulties >with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to take >note >of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First the >problem >needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may be >things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it is >also >helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and >locally >in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to work >together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party has >done >recently with nicer tactics. > > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > " Turiya Hill " <turiya > >Chinese Medicine > ><Chinese Medicine > > >Re: Earning a living > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700 > > > >Pete > > > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this Brother.......my > >general impression of your responses is one of whining and excessive > >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you. > > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of >healing > >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course, follow. I > >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling > >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and start >the > >healing and the prosperity with yourself. > > - > > Pete Theisen > > Chinese Medicine > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM > > Re: Earning a living > > > > > > Matt Bauer wrote: > > > > <snip> > > > > > calls for people working collectively > > > > Hi Matt! > > > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively. > > > > Regards, > > > > Pete > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link >page, > >http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > and >adjust > >accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > > >group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other >academics, > > > > > > > > > >----- >------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Ray, This is a part of life here in America and probably elsewhere as well. I do not recall Pete asking for yours or mine or anyone else's individual help. Lest I forgot something, ethics allows us to work with people only with an informed consent. I do not think that Pete brought these issues up in order to be pathologized. I have noticed a tendency for us to pass judgement or that one who is making mention is somehow ill. Based upon his observations, I can say that our profession needs more help than Pete does. It is healthy and normal to be expressive. You seem to have a solution for Pete but do you have one for the profession? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " ray ford " <rford >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >RE: Earning a living >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 03:15:18 +1000 > >Mike, >I was not suggesting that ANYONE wish anything away. Pete has poured his >heart out on this forum and really I can see his posts as a call for >help which is being offered by so many. This does not negate Pete's > " truth " but he is in pain and your playing devil's advocate and telling >him " yeah, we all agree ain " t it all bad and here is the TRUTH, and you >hold onto that truth " is not helping at all. So much has to be done, you >are so right there, education, co-operation etc but FIRST of all there >has to be a reason to get out of bed in the morning, playing the " aint >it all so bad tape " is a mighty strong reason to pull the covers over >and go back to sleep. >Ray Ford > > > > > > >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike >Bowser >Thursday, 28 April 2005 2:52 AM >Chinese Medicine >RE: Earning a living > > >Ray, > >I think that I was suggesting an all-inclusive focus on solutions as >well at >least that was my intention. > >Additionally, I would have to say then that we disagree with perceptions >of >things and whether we continue to wish it away and ignore it or admit it > >exists and change it. I believe that we need to be courageous in >admitting >the truth to ourselves instead of trying to placate those with other >views. >There is room for all of us. > >I do appreciate your view and dialogue and hope that all of us can >better >create that unity that we seek. > > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > " ray ford " <rford > >Chinese Medicine > ><Chinese Medicine > > >RE: Earning a living > >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 02:26:44 +1000 > > > >I disagree with you mike, > >The intent behind any of my words is to actually help Pete; this will > >not be done by re-enforcing his views which are causing him pain. As >for > >the " truth " of course if we all look at something the same way we may > >call that " truth " If other practitioners (many)see things another way > >does this make it " false " The point is " does it help " OR " does it cause > >more pain? " Surely what is needed here is solutions NOT a constant >focus > >on a " PART " of the picture. > >Ray Ford > > > > > > > > > > > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike > >Bowser > >Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:37 AM > >Chinese Medicine > >Re: Earning a living > > > > > >Matt, > >I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on Pete >for > > > >stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do not > >want > >to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth >even > >if > >it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have > >witnessed > >some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in MN >has > > > >been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving > >forward. > >There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation to > >allow > >L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might like > >challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own > >difficulties > >with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to take > >note > >of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First the > >problem > >needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may be > >things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it is > >also > >helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and > >locally > >in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to work > >together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party has > >done > >recently with nicer tactics. > > > > > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > > > > " Turiya Hill " <turiya > > >Chinese Medicine > > ><Chinese Medicine > > > >Re: Earning a living > > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700 > > > > > >Pete > > > > > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this >Brother.......my > > >general impression of your responses is one of whining and excessive > > >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you. > > > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of > >healing > > >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course, follow. >I > > >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling > > >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and start > >the > > >healing and the prosperity with yourself. > > > - > > > Pete Theisen > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM > > > Re: Earning a living > > > > > > > > > Matt Bauer wrote: > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > calls for people working collectively > > > > > > Hi Matt! > > > > > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work >collectively. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link > >page, > > >http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > > > > and > >adjust > > >accordingly. > > > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside >the > > > > >group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > >academics, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- > >------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Mike, My concept for such an enterprise was to form a new body made up of representatives from existing bodies who would join to focus on a single project: Public education. In my opinion, the existing organizations have very capable people and have good organizational foundations, but they have unfortunately gotten drawn into feuds over political issues that may never be resolved. I believe if they would focus on something for which there is no disagreement - that both the public and profession would greatly benefit from a successful public education campaign, this would not only make achieving this goal possible, but success on this issue may even spill over into other issues. Being that a successful public education campaign would greatly increase patient loads for all, this would also make practitioners more inclined to support these groups because they will see that the groups are really helping their livelihoods in a concrete manner. Just as importantly, a good public outreach effort will help connect our profession with the public thus leading to a much better ability to enlist grassroots public support for issues like passing Medicare legislation. The list of benefits goes on... It all begins with a conscious effort to concentrate on what we have in common rather than what we disagree on and making public education THE priority. I would be happy to devote myself to such an effort but it would only be successful with the support of the existing organizations. - Matthew Bauer - mike Bowser Chinese Medicine Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:05 AM Re: Earning a living Matt, I almost think something like this would operate best as a separate entity where the resources could be directed at the task and not into other areas of operation, which seems to becoming more common today. You seem to have a good grasp of this subject which is why I nominated you. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >Re: Earning a living >Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:13:28 -0700 > >Mike , > >I have proposed such a Council - not a new association - to our two >national (U.S.) OM associations. It would be made of representatives from >those groups and would ONLY work on a public education campaign - NOT >political issues. The E.O. of one association expressed great interest, I >have not heard back from the Board of the other. - Matt > - > mike Bowser > Chinese Medicine > Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:55 AM > RE: Earning a living > > > Matt, > > Very well said, you get my vote. When are you going to create this > association? > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy > >Chinese Medicine > ><Chinese Medicine > > > Earning a living > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:32:57 -0700 > > > >I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this > >profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that > >continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals to get > >marketing training and do what they can to promote their individual > >practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we could > >enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run > >around trying to promote their individual practices, when we should >have a > >public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice. > > > >I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well >organized > >public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of > >acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very >interested > >in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad >about > >it. They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain >relationship. > >They are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow >pages > >and pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign >to > >make the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the >acupuncture on > >them will make a world of difference. > > > >If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give >us > >$1,000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone >number > >to refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " >As it > >is now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any >idea > >that their is a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many > >just assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle to > >practice acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO >CORRECT > >THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that showed that > >about 2% of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they would be > >interested in trying it. That means three times more people who have >tried > >acupuncture would like to try it but have not because they do not know >what > >to expect form pursuing treatment. > > > >Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great >deal > >could be done with little money by developing a education campaign > >utilizing the print media and the Internet. More than anything, we need >to > >develop a body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE > >authoritative body on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what the >AMA > >is to American Western medicine. > > > >I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the >right > >kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of > >money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan >calls > >for people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 The following was cut from my original message below - Matt Bauer " Just as importantly, a good public outreach effort will help connect our profession with the public thus leading to a much better ability to enlist grassroots public support for issues like passing Medicare legislation. The list of benefits goes on... It all begins with a conscious effort to concentrate on what we have in common rather than what we disagree on and making public education THE priority. " - Matt Bauer Chinese Medicine Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:30 PM Re: Earning a living Mike, My concept for such an enterprise was to form a new body made up of representatives from existing bodies who would join to focus on a single project: Public education. In my opinion, the existing organizations have very capable people and have good organizational foundations, but they have unfortunately gotten drawn into feuds over political issues that may never be resolved. I believe if they would focus on something for which there is no disagreement - that both the public and profession would greatly benefit from a successful public education campaign, this would not only make achieving this goal possible, but success on this issue may even spill over into other issues. Being that a successful public education campaign would greatly increase patient loads for all, this would also make practitioners more inclined to support these groups because they will see that the groups are really helping their livelihoods in a concrete manner. Just as importantly, a good public outreach effort I would be happy to devote myself to such an effort but it would only be successful with the support of the existing organizations. - Matthew Bauer - mike Bowser Chinese Medicine Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:05 AM Re: Earning a living Matt, I almost think something like this would operate best as a separate entity where the resources could be directed at the task and not into other areas of operation, which seems to becoming more common today. You seem to have a good grasp of this subject which is why I nominated you. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >Re: Earning a living >Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:13:28 -0700 > >Mike , > >I have proposed such a Council - not a new association - to our two >national (U.S.) OM associations. It would be made of representatives from >those groups and would ONLY work on a public education campaign - NOT >political issues. The E.O. of one association expressed great interest, I >have not heard back from the Board of the other. - Matt > - > mike Bowser > Chinese Medicine > Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:55 AM > RE: Earning a living > > > Matt, > > Very well said, you get my vote. When are you going to create this > association? > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy > >Chinese Medicine > ><Chinese Medicine > > > Earning a living > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:32:57 -0700 > > > >I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this > >profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that > >continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals to get > >marketing training and do what they can to promote their individual > >practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we could > >enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run > >around trying to promote their individual practices, when we should >have a > >public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice. > > > >I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well >organized > >public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of > >acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very >interested > >in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad >about > >it. They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain >relationship. > >They are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow >pages > >and pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign >to > >make the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the >acupuncture on > >them will make a world of difference. > > > >If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give >us > >$1,000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone >number > >to refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " >As it > >is now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any >idea > >that their is a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many > >just assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle to > >practice acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO >CORRECT > >THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that showed that > >about 2% of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they would be > >interested in trying it. That means three times more people who have >tried > >acupuncture would like to try it but have not because they do not know >what > >to expect form pursuing treatment. > > > >Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great >deal > >could be done with little money by developing a education campaign > >utilizing the print media and the Internet. More than anything, we need >to > >develop a body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE > >authoritative body on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what the >AMA > >is to American Western medicine. > > > >I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the >right > >kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of > >money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan >calls > >for people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Agreed, I just do not think it will happen thru one of our bureaucratic organizations. Maybe you have more faith in them than I. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >Re: Earning a living >Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:16:00 -0700 > >The following was cut from my original message below - Matt Bauer " Just >as importantly, a good public outreach effort will help connect our >profession with the public thus leading to a much better ability to enlist >grassroots public support for issues like passing Medicare legislation. The >list of benefits goes on... It all begins with a conscious effort to >concentrate on what we have in common rather than what we disagree on and >making public education THE priority. " > - > Matt Bauer > Chinese Medicine > Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:30 PM > Re: Earning a living > > > Mike, > > My concept for such an enterprise was to form a new body made up of >representatives from existing bodies who would join to focus on a single >project: Public education. In my opinion, the existing organizations have >very capable people and have good organizational foundations, but they have >unfortunately gotten drawn into feuds over political issues that may never >be resolved. I believe if they would focus on something for which there is >no disagreement - that both the public and profession would greatly benefit >from a successful public education campaign, this would not only make >achieving this goal possible, but success on this issue may even spill over >into other issues. Being that a successful public education campaign would >greatly increase patient loads for all, this would also make practitioners >more inclined to support these groups because they will see that the groups >are really helping their livelihoods in a concrete manner. Just as >importantly, a good public outreach effort > I would be happy to devote myself to such an effort but it would only be >successful with the support of the existing organizations. - Matthew Bauer > - > mike Bowser > Chinese Medicine > Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:05 AM > Re: Earning a living > > > Matt, > > I almost think something like this would operate best as a separate >entity > where the resources could be directed at the task and not into other >areas > of operation, which seems to becoming more common today. You seem to >have a > good grasp of this subject which is why I nominated you. > > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy > >Chinese Medicine > ><Chinese Medicine > > >Re: Earning a living > >Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:13:28 -0700 > > > >Mike , > > > >I have proposed such a Council - not a new association - to our two > >national (U.S.) OM associations. It would be made of representatives >from > >those groups and would ONLY work on a public education campaign - NOT > >political issues. The E.O. of one association expressed great >interest, I > >have not heard back from the Board of the other. - Matt > > - > > mike Bowser > > Chinese Medicine > > Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:55 AM > > RE: Earning a living > > > > > > Matt, > > > > Very well said, you get my vote. When are you going to create >this > > association? > > > > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > > > > " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy > > >Chinese Medicine > > ><Chinese Medicine > > > > Earning a living > > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:32:57 -0700 > > > > > >I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in >this > > >profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential >that > > >continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals >to get > > >marketing training and do what they can to promote their >individual > > >practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we >could > > >enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to >run > > >around trying to promote their individual practices, when we >should > >have a > > >public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice. > > > > > >I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well > >organized > > >public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits >of > > >acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very > >interested > > >in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no >bad > >about > > >it. They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain > >relationship. > > >They are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the >yellow > >pages > > >and pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run >campaign > >to > > >make the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the > >acupuncture on > > >them will make a world of difference. > > > > > >If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would >give > >us > > >$1,000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 >phone > >number > > >to refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture >professionals. " > >As it > > >is now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have >any > >idea > > >that their is a profession of trained and licensed >acupuncturists. Many > > >just assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle >to > > >practice acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING >TO > >CORRECT > > >THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that >showed that > > >about 2% of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they >would be > > >interested in trying it. That means three times more people who >have > >tried > > >acupuncture would like to try it but have not because they do not >know > >what > > >to expect form pursuing treatment. > > > > > >Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a >great > >deal > > >could be done with little money by developing a education >campaign > > >utilizing the print media and the Internet. More than anything, >we need > >to > > >develop a body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as >THE > > >authoritative body on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what >the > >AMA > > >is to American Western medicine. > > > > > >I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with >the > >right > > >kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large >sums of > > >money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a >plan > >calls > > >for people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 Mike ,you have not heard a thing. Pete said the same thing soooo.. many times it SEEMED obvious to me at least that he wanted help. This is a forum of interaction, advice is common AND if you have a look back Pete did keep the thread going by asking questions and making blanket statements. Since you " speak " for " the profession " and " know " what all the inherent problems are that need fixing, I'll leave it to you. Ray Ford Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike Bowser Thursday, 28 April 2005 3:58 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Earning a living Ray, This is a part of life here in America and probably elsewhere as well. I do not recall Pete asking for yours or mine or anyone else's individual help. Lest I forgot something, ethics allows us to work with people only with an informed consent. I do not think that Pete brought these issues up in order to be pathologized. I have noticed a tendency for us to pass judgement or that one who is making mention is somehow ill. Based upon his observations, I can say that our profession needs more help than Pete does. It is healthy and normal to be expressive. You seem to have a solution for Pete but do you have one for the profession? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " ray ford " <rford >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >RE: Earning a living >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 03:15:18 +1000 > >Mike, >I was not suggesting that ANYONE wish anything away. Pete has poured his >heart out on this forum and really I can see his posts as a call for >help which is being offered by so many. This does not negate Pete's > " truth " but he is in pain and your playing devil's advocate and telling >him " yeah, we all agree ain " t it all bad and here is the TRUTH, and you >hold onto that truth " is not helping at all. So much has to be done, you >are so right there, education, co-operation etc but FIRST of all there >has to be a reason to get out of bed in the morning, playing the " aint >it all so bad tape " is a mighty strong reason to pull the covers over >and go back to sleep. >Ray Ford > > > > > > >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike >Bowser >Thursday, 28 April 2005 2:52 AM >Chinese Medicine >RE: Earning a living > > >Ray, > >I think that I was suggesting an all-inclusive focus on solutions as >well at >least that was my intention. > >Additionally, I would have to say then that we disagree with perceptions >of >things and whether we continue to wish it away and ignore it or admit it > >exists and change it. I believe that we need to be courageous in >admitting >the truth to ourselves instead of trying to placate those with other >views. >There is room for all of us. > >I do appreciate your view and dialogue and hope that all of us can >better >create that unity that we seek. > > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > " ray ford " <rford > >Chinese Medicine > ><Chinese Medicine > > >RE: Earning a living > >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 02:26:44 +1000 > > > >I disagree with you mike, > >The intent behind any of my words is to actually help Pete; this will > >not be done by re-enforcing his views which are causing him pain. As >for > >the " truth " of course if we all look at something the same way we may > >call that " truth " If other practitioners (many)see things another way > >does this make it " false " The point is " does it help " OR " does it cause > >more pain? " Surely what is needed here is solutions NOT a constant >focus > >on a " PART " of the picture. > >Ray Ford > > > > > > > > > > > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike > >Bowser > >Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:37 AM > >Chinese Medicine > >Re: Earning a living > > > > > >Matt, > >I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on Pete >for > > > >stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do not > >want > >to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth >even > >if > >it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have > >witnessed > >some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in MN >has > > > >been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving > >forward. > >There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation to > >allow > >L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might like > >challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own > >difficulties > >with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to take > >note > >of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First the > >problem > >needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may be > >things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it is > >also > >helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and > >locally > >in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to work > >together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party has > >done > >recently with nicer tactics. > > > > > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > > > > " Turiya Hill " <turiya > > >Chinese Medicine > > ><Chinese Medicine > > > >Re: Earning a living > > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700 > > > > > >Pete > > > > > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this >Brother.......my > > >general impression of your responses is one of whining and excessive > > >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you. > > > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of > >healing > > >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course, follow. >I > > >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling > > >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and start > >the > > >healing and the prosperity with yourself. > > > - > > > Pete Theisen > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM > > > Re: Earning a living > > > > > > > > > Matt Bauer wrote: > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > calls for people working collectively > > > > > > Hi Matt! > > > > > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work >collectively. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link > >page, > > >http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > > > > and > >adjust > > >accordingly. > > > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside >the > > > > >group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > >academics, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- > >------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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