Rose Otto Production

[Guest guest]

Hi y'all,

 

Back a few months ago I told y'all that it was NOT going to be a good year for

Rose

Otto .. production was going to be a bit down, demand was going to be up and

prices

were going to be much higher. Mebbe some folks who don't know me let this slide

like

water off a duck cause they are used to seeing a lot of marketing hype in the

sale of

essential oils. But now all can see that it came to be .. wasn't me being a

psychic

... was simply a matter of having access to information that pointed to those

conclusions.

 

I also said that the availability and price of Rose Otto from the 2003 crop

would be

such that those who are less than honorable would have more incentive to

stretch it a bit with synthetics .. and that it was more critical now to demand

a GC

or GC/MS when you purchase. I still stand behind this.

 

There will be NO BARGAINS in Hydro-distilled Rose Otto this year .. not even in

kilograms IF you can get it in those sizes. There willprobably not be a

shortage of

Rose Absolute because it was more economically profitable to produce Concrete

this

year than it was Rose Otto .. but the prices on Absolute have risen too. There

will

be no bargains on Rose Hydrosol .. and I know for a FACT that one big company

has

already stretched theirs with distilled water.

 

It boiled down to production costs - which increased, availability due to a

lower

production due to weather conditions - which decreased - competitive demand

from

perfumeries - which increased for a number of reasons .. one being panic and I

THINK

(still researching this) also some nationalistic awakening in certain parts of

the

world. A few years back the goverment of India woke up and messed with the

plans the

French had for Rose Oil. It started with the World Trade Organization .. worked

down

to foreign companies establishing Foreign Invested Companies in India, buying

products (Rose was included) from the Indian farmers, distilling the product and

exporting ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of it back to their parent companies in France.

No

off-set trading .. even Boeing and Coca Cola are driven by offsets when they

sell to

a country. In plain ol' every day kuntry boy terms they were ripping off the

agricultural resources of India. That was cut out some time back and I think we

are

mebbe seeing an accordian effect on this.

 

The same thing has gone down in Turkey .. I have protested it verbally but

intend to

embarrass (if I can) some gummit folks in writing when I get back. My recent

visit

to a French company in Isparta bothered me and I commented on that fact to the

folks

who were with me then .. Irish and Turkish folks they were.

 

I think we will see a further increase in the price of Rose Otto and other Rose

products following the 2004 harvest. The farmers will NOT benefit from this.

 

As for where Rose Blossoms come from .. that is, who grew them in a particular

area.

NOBODY can tell you WHO grew the roses that are produced by their facility. Not

the

Turks, not the Bulgarians and not the Hindistanis. In Turkey alone there are

over

7,000 growers in a 70 or so mile area surrounding Isparta .. some grow enough

roses

to produce 100 grams of Rose Otto .. others might harvest enough to produce a

kilo or

two. This is not unusual in any country simply because Rose growing is not a

full

time agricultural job. Farmers can't afford to tie up all their land in a

single

crop where the ground can't be tilled over and replanted with another crop. So

...

they grow roses where they can in this or that corner to supplement their

income.

Trying to control the actions of thousands .. or even hundreds .. of growers is

a lot

like trying to herd chickens or rabbits.

 

Who produces the Rose Otto? Not the farmers .. you can take that to the bank.

A

single production facility costs more than the average Rose grower makes in a

life

time of work. One Hundred Thousand dollars will get you started on an operation

that

will produce 8-10 kilos in a year. If you wanna be big you have to spend a few

million or have a government approved operation .. a Co-Op .. where farmers

bring

their roses for distillation. Remember .. this facility is used for around 6-8

weeks

or so each year .. then its locked up. Its not used to distill other aromatic

plants so obviously they are not going to get their start-up costs back in quick

time

... thus, the distillers of Rose are almost always older operations.

 

I personally know .. have met .. have seen the operations .. of EACH of the FOUR

major distillers of Rose Otto in Turkey .. plus the TWO French companies .. who

send

100% of their product back to their PARENT Perfumery company in France. Two

of the FOUR Turkish distillers have true master distillers on board .. the other

two

are run by sons of masters who are good .. but not in the class of those who

have devoted their lives to Rose Otto distillation.

 

A World Bank Report stated that 75% of the world-wide production of Rose Otto is

produced by Turkey and that 65% of the Rose Otto produced in Turkey is produced

by

the Rose Growers Association .. and this is including the two French factories

who

send 100% of their product back to France. Also, I have personal knowledge that

private Rose Otto producers in Turkey frequently purchase Rose Otto from the

Rose

Growers Association.

 

Still, there is a lot of confusion on the realities. One seller markets Turkish

Rose

Otto by saying its not the Government produced Turkish Rose commonly available

online, but a product produced privately by a superbly talented distiller.

 

First .. there has NEVER been disagreement in Turkey on who is the OLDEST and

most

EXPERIENCED Master Distiller (Usta) of Roses in Turkey .. he has over 49 years

experience at the still (began in 1954) and is responsible for production of

over $7

MILLION dollars of Rose Otto (not mentioning the Concrete) each year. When he

dies or is forced to retire then someone else will hold that title .. in June

this

year he told me he would have to die or be forced to retire before he would quit

doing the only thing he has ever cared for in life.

 

Secondly .. there is no GOVERNMENT produced Rose Otto in Turkey. The Rose

Growers

Association is just what the name implies .. an association. Its non-profit ..

as is

the case with all associations in Turkey and as far as I know, all in the USA.

It is NOT government operated .. I know of NO association that is.

 

I might be the cause of some of the confusion on who controls the RGA .. I

casually

say " government controlled " because that's what the Turks call it .. and it does

help

to differentiate between the RGA and the private distillers .. but its no

different

than the Nevada Gaming Commission .. the government doesn't get involved UNLESS

there

is a problem .. otherwise it is operated as a commission.

 

What makes associations different than private enterprise is that the government

can and will get involved if an association is run improperly .. and

associations

have a Chairman and a Board of Directors .. plus the members can vote. Not

found in

private enterprise. If a private company is run improperly they will show a

loss and

either go broke or do something (ethical we hope) to correct matters.

 

The other thing found in agri-business Associations is capital .. they have

money to

afford to build what's needed to support the cooperative efforts (Co-Op) of

small farmers. What's NOT found in the Rose Growers Association is the practice

of paying cash in advance of harvest for products. Early in 2004 a couple of

the

private distilling companies will pay this years kilo price to farmers who are

in

need of cash in hand .. for a contract for them to deliver their Rose Blossoms

to

that factory next May-June. One might think this is not different than playing

the

futures market on Wall Street .. but in Turkey its more like company stores that

used

to operate in the West Virginia coal mining towns or in the Pullman Coach

Factories

of the early 1900s.

 

Inflation has been a problem in Turkey since I first went there in 1964. At

that

time NINE Turkish Lira (TL) equaled ONE US Dollar (USD). I have seen it rise

over

the years and now it is over ONE MILLION, FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND TL to one USD.

I

won't go into the reasons for this high rate except to say that a good part of

it is

due to inefficient government decisions and some of it to variables beyond the

control of any government. Anyway .. odds are great that inflation and the TL

to USD

exchange rate will be higher next year and those farmers who took the money now

can

sorta be compared to the first dude whut ever sold his birth right for a bowl of

soup. There are no rich Rose Growers .. they're simple subsistence farmers who

grow

roses on part of their land to supplement income which in many cases is less

than

$2,500 a year. They aren't hungry as they grow all their family needs except

for

coffee, salt and a couple of other staples. They weave wool and cotton, make

their

own flour and such .. but there is no getting ahead in that kind of life if you

don't

get help .. and in most countries governments do little to help.

 

When I was growing up in Kentucky .. it was not unusual for a tobacco farmer to

take

bank loans all year against his crop .. when the tobacco was stripped and

sold at the Loose Floor in December they paid off the banks. If they were real

lucky, they had enough left to buy the family a few Christmas meagre gifts.

Co-ops

are what saved the small farmers in the South. Co-ops are good for little

folks.

 

If any of you ever want to visit the Turkish Rose Fields I'll be glad to show

you

around. And I'll show you the homes of the General Director and the Chairman of

the

Board of the Rose Growers Association .. middle class homes. I will also show

you

homes of the owners of the three private Turkish Rose Otto still operations ..

two

are upper class homes. Who is doing the most to help the little farmers?

 

Another seller who deals in Bulgarian Rose Otto claims theirs is better than the

Turkish because the Turks allow their Roses to ferment before distillation.

That is

typical marketing hype! Anyone who has visited the Rose stills of Isparta

(there are

many hundreds of visitors .. one tour a year from Aroma Tours plus

individual visits) has seen the operations of the TWO large producers ..

Gulbirlik

(which is the RGA) and Ercetin. If some Rose Blossoms must wait even as short a

time

as three hours before distillation, they'll be spread out on concrete floors

with

workers pitching them in the air with wooden forks. This is ONE of the TWO

reasons

PROFESSIONAL distilleries don't purchase Rose Blossoms after High Noon on

any day .. they want the farmers to pick only what they can distill that day.

The

other reason is that the Rose Oil begins to back out of the Blossoms when the

sun

gets high .. basically, there is less oil in the Rose Blossoms at that time.

 

You will get a FINE product IF you have a PURE, UNADULTERATED, Hydrodistilled

Rose

Otto, produced from Damask Roses (Rosa damascena) that have NOT been allowed to

ferment (meaning the still(s) must also be close to the Rose Fields .. it

matters not

if its from Turkey or Bulgaria IF the management is professional, equipment is

efficient and the master distiller is not drunk. You should also request a copy

of

the analysis. Gulbirlik has 10 still factories because the Rose Fields are

spread

out over the region .. this cuts down travel time from field to the still.

 

Beyond the above factors we get into the realm of olfactory perceptions,

olfactory

expectations and olfactory memory. Not too different than taste in ice cream.

 

I'll leave it there for now.

 

Y'all keep smiling. Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

 

PS: Actually, y'all can get what info you need from the following URLs:

http://www.av-at.com/distillation/rosadamascena1.html

 

And check out another group of nice photos at the following URL

http://www.av-at.com/stuff/triptoturkey.html

[Guest guest]

Hi Butch,

 

>Secondly .. there is no GOVERNMENT produced Rose Otto in Turkey. The

Rose Growers Association is just what the name implies .. an

association. Its non-profit ..as is the case with all associations in

Turkey and as far as I know, all in the USA. It is NOT government

operated .. I know of NO association that is.<

 

Thank you for clarifying this for people who are not aware of this

fact!

 

I have tried to explain this FACT to people and have heard of rumors

that claim the Rose Otto production is Government operated in Turkey.

 

Again, thank you for taking the time to report FACTS and insider

details. THIS is the exact reason why you are the ONLY EO supplier I

recommend and have on my website.

 

Very good post!

 

Sevi