Guest guest Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 Does anyone ever use the liniment wood lock? It has 50% methyl salicylate (aspirin). Fred According to Maclean in his patent book, Trans woodlock contains 25% methyl salicylate --> although, this is not aspirin. It is found in wintergreen.. I have never used or have seen trans woodlock, but the recipe for wood lock medicated balm (huang dao yi huo luo you) that standard one I have seen is: Peppermint oil 350mg, wintergreen oil 240mg, turpentine oil 225mg, lavender oil 130mg, camphor oil 25 mg, 55mg of dang gui and 55mg of du zhong.= a total of 1080 mg... (approx. 22% wintergreen oil , AKA methyl salicylate) Fred, where is your info from? I would say that woodlock does not contain aspirin or salicylic acid (SA)- Therefore not indicated for fungus... where do you get that it contains SA? Is SA contained in one of the above mentioned ingredients? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 , " " <@o...> wrote: > where do you get that it contains SA? Is SA contained in one of the > above mentioned ingredients? > - sorry, I meant methyl salicylate, which as you said, is NOT aspirin, but an herbal constituent. My point was that these products generally do not contain aspirin, in my understanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2001 Report Share Posted August 19, 2001 > " " > > >RE: Woodlock >Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:20:18 -0700 > > > > >Does anyone ever use the liniment wood lock? >It has 50% methyl salicylate (aspirin). >Fred > > >According to Maclean in his patent book, Trans woodlock contains 25% methyl >salicylate --> although, this is not aspirin. It is found in wintergreen.. >I have never used or have seen trans woodlock, but the recipe for wood lock >medicated balm (huang dao yi huo luo you) that standard one I have seen is: >Peppermint oil 350mg, wintergreen oil 240mg, turpentine oil 225mg, lavender >oil 130mg, camphor oil 25 mg, 55mg of dang gui and 55mg of du zhong.= a >total of 1080 mg... (approx. 22% wintergreen oil , AKA methyl salicylate) >Fred, where is your info from? >I would say that woodlock does not contain aspirin or salicylic acid (SA)- I wasn't saying it would be good to use for any type of fungal infection. I have a bottle of woodlock purchased from PCOM that says 50% methyl salicylate, menthol 16%, and camphor 10 % as the active ingredients in wood lock oil. " Wong to Yick " I remember one of the Medical Doctor PCOM Interns when I was an assistant call it " aspirin " . One of the herb academy members had some question regarding using it as for a external, which was added your external antifungal forumula. I was just recalling info, without looking up the true generic name for aspirin (acetylsalicyclic acid). I apologize for the confusion. I was thinking of how and why you would use it in a chinese herbal formula? Anti-inflammatory effect, peripheral vasodilation, and/or preventing formation of platelet??? Shouldn't we be doing this with Chinese Herbs? Fred >Therefore not indicated for fungus... > where do you get that it contains SA? Is SA contained in one of the >above mentioned ingredients? >- > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2001 Report Share Posted August 19, 2001 , " Alfred Russo " <russoshen@h...> wrote: > I remember one of the Medical Doctor PCOM Interns > when I was an assistant call it " aspirin " . Another reason to trust medical doctors, who generally seem very ignorant of pharmacology. I had a patient a few days ago who has a history of miscarriage. She was constipated during her current pregnancy and her MD recommended a supposedly safe herbal laxative, which contained fan xie ye (senna), an herb that is absolutely contraindicated in pregnancy because it causes uterine contractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hi all, I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this and got an answer as to why? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. 07786198900 enquiries <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 ---- Attilio D'Alberto 08/01/05 12:44:20 Chinese Medicine Woodlock Hi all, I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this and got an answer as to why? I haven't seen pain getting worse from the oil (yet). It moves Blood, so it does not help with everyone's pain complaints. We have White Flower Oil, a similar product from Hong Kong. That moves both Qi and Blood. In general, these products are also warming (although there's mint in there as well), so again they may not be suitable for everyone. Perhaps your patients have localized or general heat? Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hi All ther's a good ointment called balsamka .. made in germany............to releive muscle and joint pain kal - " Tom Verhaeghe " <verhaeghe_tom <Chinese Medicine > Monday, August 01, 2005 2:32 PM Re: Woodlock > > > ---- > > Attilio D'Alberto > 08/01/05 12:44:20 > Chinese Medicine > Woodlock > > Hi all, > > I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of > patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually > making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this > and > got an answer as to why? > > > I haven't seen pain getting worse from the oil (yet). It moves Blood, so > it does not help with everyone's pain complaints. We have White Flower > Oil, > a similar product from Hong Kong. That moves both Qi and Blood. In > general, > these products are also warming (although there's mint in there as well), > so > again they may not be suitable for everyone. > Perhaps your patients have localized or general heat? > > Tom. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hi Kal, Could you please email me the companies website address, if you have it, off list. Thank you, Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. 07786198900 enquiries <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of KAL 01 August 2005 12:43 Chinese Medicine Re: Woodlock Hi All ther's a good ointment called balsamka .. made in germany............to releive muscle and joint pain kal - " Tom Verhaeghe " <verhaeghe_tom <Chinese Medicine > Monday, August 01, 2005 2:32 PM Re: Woodlock > > > ---- > > Attilio D'Alberto > 08/01/05 12:44:20 > Chinese Medicine > Woodlock > > Hi all, > > I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of > patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually > making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this > and > got an answer as to why? > > > I haven't seen pain getting worse from the oil (yet). It moves Blood, so > it does not help with everyone's pain complaints. We have White Flower > Oil, > a similar product from Hong Kong. That moves both Qi and Blood. In > general, > these products are also warming (although there's mint in there as well), > so > again they may not be suitable for everyone. > Perhaps your patients have localized or general heat? > > Tom. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Attilio, My Tui Na master and his students, have used it for decades, but I have not heard or experienced any case where it worsen the pain. I suspect it probably has to do with how you use it. If you have always applied it to a small area, I'd suggest doing some Tui Na along the meridian, muscle, and sinews connecting to the area. Mike L. Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto wrote: Hi all, I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this and got an answer as to why? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. 07786198900 enquiries <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 My first guess would be that it is too blood moving in a patient with deficiency. Other possibilities are that it is warming and the patient has a hot condition. Those seem like the most likely problems. I am very careful what type of ointment I use for any given person ever since I an experience with a very blood moving ointment that I was using on several patients. I foudn that we all started to develop dull low back pain. Even putting it on my hands seemed to set me up for depleting my blood/yin enough to cause this. Laura Chinese Medicine , Mike Liaw <mikeliaw> wrote: > Attilio, > > My Tui Na master and his students, have used it for decades, but I have not heard or experienced any case where it worsen the pain. I suspect it probably has to do with > how you use it. If you have always applied it to a small area, I'd suggest doing some Tui Na along the meridian, muscle, and sinews connecting to the area. > > Mike L. > > Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of > patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually > making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this and > got an answer as to why? > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. > 07786198900 > enquiries@a... > <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com > > " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part > limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and > feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical > illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Attilio, I had the same experience on several of my patients. You can not use it if there are signs of inflammation, usually acute condition. In chronic w/o heat it works well Yuri ovchinnikov --- Mike Liaw <mikeliaw wrote: > Attilio, > > My Tui Na master and his students, have used it for > decades, but I have not heard or experienced any > case where it worsen the pain. I suspect it probably > has to do with > how you use it. If you have always applied it to a > small area, I'd suggest doing some Tui Na along the > meridian, muscle, and sinews connecting to the area. > > Mike L. > > Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto > wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment > Woodlock on a number of > patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong > based product is actually > making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has > anyone else found this and > got an answer as to why? > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. > 07786198900 > enquiries > <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> > www.attiliodalberto.com > > " A human being is part of the whole, called by us > the Universe, a part > limited in time and space. He experiences himself, > his thoughts and > feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a > kind of optical > illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into > this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > and adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any > duplication outside the group requires prior > permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM > with other academics, > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 My favorite liniments is Kwan Loon oil. I have used Woodlock and never had a problem with it making anyone's pain worse, but it can be drying on the skin and that is why I don't like to use it in clinic - it dries my hands. I have many of my patients buy a bottle of Kwan Loon Oil and apply themselves 2-3 times a day and they love it. Attilio - what technique are you using to apply the Woodlock? - Matt - Mike Liaw Chinese Medicine Monday, August 01, 2005 8:22 AM Re: Woodlock Attilio, My Tui Na master and his students, have used it for decades, but I have not heard or experienced any case where it worsen the pain. I suspect it probably has to do with how you use it. If you have always applied it to a small area, I'd suggest doing some Tui Na along the meridian, muscle, and sinews connecting to the area. Mike L. Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto wrote: Hi all, I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this and got an answer as to why? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. 07786198900 enquiries <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hi Matt, Am massaging the ointment into the skin for 5-10 mins. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. 07786198900 enquiries <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Matt Bauer 01 August 2005 17:49 Chinese Medicine Re: Woodlock My favorite liniments is Kwan Loon oil. I have used Woodlock and never had a problem with it making anyone's pain worse, but it can be drying on the skin and that is why I don't like to use it in clinic - it dries my hands. I have many of my patients buy a bottle of Kwan Loon Oil and apply themselves 2-3 times a day and they love it. Attilio - what technique are you using to apply the Woodlock? - Matt - Mike Liaw Chinese Medicine Monday, August 01, 2005 8:22 AM Re: Woodlock Attilio, My Tui Na master and his students, have used it for decades, but I have not heard or experienced any case where it worsen the pain. I suspect it probably has to do with how you use it. If you have always applied it to a small area, I'd suggest doing some Tui Na along the meridian, muscle, and sinews connecting to the area. Mike L. Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto wrote: Hi all, I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this and got an answer as to why? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. 07786198900 enquiries <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 It may be that the length of time you spend rubbing this in is too long and multiplying the effect. I only rub liniments in for 1-2 minutes even though I may give 10 + minutes of acu-massage/tui na first. - Matt - Attilio D'Alberto Chinese Medicine Monday, August 01, 2005 10:09 AM RE: Woodlock Hi Matt, Am massaging the ointment into the skin for 5-10 mins. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. 07786198900 enquiries <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Matt Bauer 01 August 2005 17:49 Chinese Medicine Re: Woodlock My favorite liniments is Kwan Loon oil. I have used Woodlock and never had a problem with it making anyone's pain worse, but it can be drying on the skin and that is why I don't like to use it in clinic - it dries my hands. I have many of my patients buy a bottle of Kwan Loon Oil and apply themselves 2-3 times a day and they love it. Attilio - what technique are you using to apply the Woodlock? - Matt - Mike Liaw Chinese Medicine Monday, August 01, 2005 8:22 AM Re: Woodlock Attilio, My Tui Na master and his students, have used it for decades, but I have not heard or experienced any case where it worsen the pain. I suspect it probably has to do with how you use it. If you have always applied it to a small area, I'd suggest doing some Tui Na along the meridian, muscle, and sinews connecting to the area. Mike L. Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto wrote: Hi all, I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this and got an answer as to why? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. 07786198900 enquiries <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I live in a cold climate and if I apply Woodlock to someone and then go outside I get aches in my finger joints. So I now operate as if Woodlock opens the pores and always tell people to protect themselves from the wind and cold or use another liniment. So I don't think it is your application methods Sue Chinese Medicine , " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy@g...> wrote: > It may be that the length of time you spend rubbing this in is too long and multiplying the effect. I only rub liniments in for 1-2 minutes even though I may give 10 + minutes of acu-massage/tui na first. - Matt > - > Attilio D'Alberto > Chinese Medicine > Monday, August 01, 2005 10:09 AM > RE: Woodlock > > > Hi Matt, > > Am massaging the ointment into the skin for 5-10 mins. > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. > 07786198900 > enquiries@a... > <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com > > " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part > limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and > feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical > illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) > > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Matt > Bauer > 01 August 2005 17:49 > Chinese Medicine > Re: Woodlock > > > My favorite liniments is Kwan Loon oil. I have used Woodlock and never had a > problem with it making anyone's pain worse, but it can be drying on the skin > and that is why I don't like to use it in clinic - it dries my hands. I have > many of my patients buy a bottle of Kwan Loon Oil and apply themselves 2-3 > times a day and they love it. Attilio - what technique are you using to > apply the Woodlock? - Matt > - > Mike Liaw > Chinese Medicine > Monday, August 01, 2005 8:22 AM > Re: Woodlock > > > Attilio, > > My Tui Na master and his students, have used it for decades, but I have > not heard or experienced any case where it worsen the pain. I suspect it > probably has to do with > how you use it. If you have always applied it to a small area, I'd suggest > doing some Tui Na along the meridian, muscle, and sinews connecting to the > area. > > Mike L. > > Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of > patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually > making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this > and > got an answer as to why? > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. > 07786198900 > enquiries@a... > <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com > > " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part > limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and > feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical > illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Sue is right about cold drafts. I live in a warm climate and tend to forget not everyone does. I will not use any warning qi/blood moving liniments on my patients if they will walk out of the office into a cold draft ( we do get some of these in Southern California). I also warn my patients about not exposing themselves in this way after they apply themselves at home. - Matt - suecochrane36 Chinese Medicine Monday, August 01, 2005 6:11 PM Re: Woodlock I live in a cold climate and if I apply Woodlock to someone and then go outside I get aches in my finger joints. So I now operate as if Woodlock opens the pores and always tell people to protect themselves from the wind and cold or use another liniment. So I don't think it is your application methods Sue Chinese Medicine , " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy@g...> wrote: > It may be that the length of time you spend rubbing this in is too long and multiplying the effect. I only rub liniments in for 1-2 minutes even though I may give 10 + minutes of acu-massage/tui na first. - Matt > - > Attilio D'Alberto > Chinese Medicine > Monday, August 01, 2005 10:09 AM > RE: Woodlock > > > Hi Matt, > > Am massaging the ointment into the skin for 5-10 mins. > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. > 07786198900 > enquiries@a... > <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com > > " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part > limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and > feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical > illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) > > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Matt > Bauer > 01 August 2005 17:49 > Chinese Medicine > Re: Woodlock > > > My favorite liniments is Kwan Loon oil. I have used Woodlock and never had a > problem with it making anyone's pain worse, but it can be drying on the skin > and that is why I don't like to use it in clinic - it dries my hands. I have > many of my patients buy a bottle of Kwan Loon Oil and apply themselves 2-3 > times a day and they love it. Attilio - what technique are you using to > apply the Woodlock? - Matt > - > Mike Liaw > Chinese Medicine > Monday, August 01, 2005 8:22 AM > Re: Woodlock > > > Attilio, > > My Tui Na master and his students, have used it for decades, but I have > not heard or experienced any case where it worsen the pain. I suspect it > probably has to do with > how you use it. If you have always applied it to a small area, I'd suggest > doing some Tui Na along the meridian, muscle, and sinews connecting to the > area. > > Mike L. > > Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been using the atopic analgesic ointment Woodlock on a number of > patients. I've found that this popular Hong Kong based product is actually > making the pain worse in alot of my patients. Has anyone else found this > and > got an answer as to why? > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. > 07786198900 > enquiries@a... > <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com > > " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part > limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and > feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical > illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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