Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 manfred porkert in Essentials of Chinese Diagnosis describes the 'halo effect' [Chapter on Palpation Diagnosis, p 249] this i have seen time and again, say in a case of migraine which is due to a True Metal Tarnished, as opposed to a Water born o Wood born migraine when all 3 fingers palpate all 3 pulses on R wrist, the hemodynamic in terms of force, incoming and outgoing surge, depth of pulse, etc, remains uniform, and the notion one gets is that of nothing is amiss on the R zang & fu when each pulse is palpated separately, the iconogram shifts drastically so that: R cun is scattered, choppy, depth is barely middle level R guan is Full and Slippery with much 'Stomach' R chi is Deep as it should be, but also Weak this is occasionally seen in some patients with different problems, while in others the iconogram remains similar when pulses are taken together and separately has anyone come across similar experience? would like much to know dr holmes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Yes Dr. Holms, Quite often with older patients holmes <dkaikobad wrote: manfred porkert in Essentials of Chinese Diagnosis describes the 'halo effect' [Chapter on Palpation Diagnosis, p 249] this i have seen time and again, say in a case of migraine which is due to a True Metal Tarnished, as opposed to a Water born o Wood born migraine when all 3 fingers palpate all 3 pulses on R wrist, the hemodynamic in terms of force, incoming and outgoing surge, depth of pulse, etc, remains uniform, and the notion one gets is that of nothing is amiss on the R zang & fu when each pulse is palpated separately, the iconogram shifts drastically so that: R cun is scattered, choppy, depth is barely middle level R guan is Full and Slippery with much 'Stomach' R chi is Deep as it should be, but also Weak this is occasionally seen in some patients with different problems, while in others the iconogram remains similar when pulses are taken together and separately has anyone come across similar experience? would like much to know dr holmes Yes Dr. Holms, Quite often. With older patients I interpret it By Zang Fu patterns, the way it present itself. Weak Lu (or upper Jiao, if L & R both weak) Weak Ming Meng Fire (Pr), (or Ki Yin and Yang if both L & R weak) Excess in Sp (Damp) or Exc in Sp/St (Damp-Sp, Upbearing in St) I find often this picture symmetrical on both arms with Ki somewhat stronger then Pr if person (usually women has more signs of water or Damp retention) And He somewhat weaker then Lu Peter Pavolotsky Tel. (416)453-9004 peter911cm Find your next car at Canada Autos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 that explains a lot thanks holmes Peter Pavolotsky wrote: > Yes Dr. Holms, > Quite often with older patients > > holmes <dkaikobad wrote: manfred porkert in Essentials of > Chinese Diagnosis describes the 'halo > effect' [Chapter on Palpation Diagnosis, p 249] > > this i have seen time and again, say in a case of migraine which is due > to a True Metal Tarnished, as opposed to a Water born o Wood born migraine > > when all 3 fingers palpate all 3 pulses on R wrist, the hemodynamic in > terms of force, incoming and outgoing surge, depth of pulse, etc, > remains uniform, and the notion one gets is that of nothing is amiss on > the R zang & fu > > when each pulse is palpated separately, the iconogram shifts drastically > so that: > > R cun is scattered, choppy, depth is barely middle level > R guan is Full and Slippery with much 'Stomach' > R chi is Deep as it should be, but also Weak > > this is occasionally seen in some patients with different problems, > while in others the iconogram remains similar when pulses are taken > together and separately > > has anyone come across similar experience? > > would like much to know > > dr holmes > > > > > > > Yes Dr. Holms, > > Quite often. With older patients > > I interpret it By Zang Fu patterns, the way it present itself. > > Weak Lu (or upper Jiao, if L & R both weak) > Weak Ming Meng Fire (Pr), (or Ki Yin and Yang if both L & R weak) > Excess in Sp (Damp) or Exc in Sp/St (Damp-Sp, Upbearing in St) > > I find often this picture symmetrical on both arms with Ki somewhat > stronger then Pr if person (usually women has more signs of water or Damp > retention) > > And He somewhat weaker then Lu > > > > Peter Pavolotsky > Tel. (416)453-9004 > peter911cm > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 some more thoughts on the disparity of 'feel': 1. minute pulsations in the arterial capillaries my own finger tips could alter the picture 2. a cumulative rise in internal pressure in the radial because of my pressing on it and narrowing the lumen narrow lumen = raised intra radial pressure = different pulse feel 3. or maybe the distinct pulse contours are effaced by pressing on the vessel holmes holmes wrote: > that explains a lot thanks > > holmes > > Peter Pavolotsky wrote: > >> Yes Dr. Holms, >> Quite often with older patients >> >> holmes <dkaikobad wrote: manfred porkert in >> Essentials of Chinese Diagnosis describes the 'halo >> effect' [Chapter on Palpation Diagnosis, p 249] >> >> this i have seen time and again, say in a case of migraine which is due >> to a True Metal Tarnished, as opposed to a Water born o Wood born >> migraine >> >> when all 3 fingers palpate all 3 pulses on R wrist, the hemodynamic in >> terms of force, incoming and outgoing surge, depth of pulse, etc, >> remains uniform, and the notion one gets is that of nothing is amiss on >> the R zang & fu >> >> when each pulse is palpated separately, the iconogram shifts >> drastically >> so that: >> >> R cun is scattered, choppy, depth is barely middle level >> R guan is Full and Slippery with much 'Stomach' >> R chi is Deep as it should be, but also Weak >> >> this is occasionally seen in some patients with different problems, >> while in others the iconogram remains similar when pulses are taken >> together and separately >> >> has anyone come across similar experience? >> >> would like much to know >> >> dr holmes >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes Dr. Holms, >> Quite often. With older patients >> I interpret it By Zang Fu patterns, the way it present >> itself. >> Weak Lu (or upper Jiao, if L & R both weak) >> Weak Ming Meng Fire (Pr), (or Ki Yin and Yang if both L & R weak) >> Excess in Sp (Damp) or Exc in Sp/St (Damp-Sp, Upbearing in St) >> I find often this picture symmetrical on both arms with >> Ki somewhat stronger then Pr if person (usually women has more signs >> of water or Damp retention) >> And He somewhat weaker then Lu >> >> >> Peter Pavolotsky >> Tel. (416)453-9004 >> peter911cm >> > > -- Dr. Holmes Keikobad Baccalaureate in Medicine & Surgery Diplomate in Public Health & Hygiene Diplomate in Acupuncture NCCAOM Licensed Acupuncturist AZ & CO Clinician Community Acupuncture Clinic Clinical Director Acupuncture CEUS on DVD CD www.acu-free.com. Toll Free 1.888.TRU.SELF <878.7353> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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