Guest guest Posted November 28, 2002 Report Share Posted November 28, 2002 > Z'ev, I'm confused... does it take 7 years to struggle or 30 hours? ;-) As to the elite, I think that is an issue. After all much of this discussion comes out of the story Bob Flaws tells of a meeting of the " top " writers about TCM and realizing everyone there read Chinese. I think it would be great to read Chinese. I've started my own quest and my first Chinese class is harder than a couple of herb classes put together. It's taking all of my " extra " time. But I know this will take a long time. Realizing that none of my Chinese collegues has ever in the last decade mentioned Chinese literacy I've started to ask them directly. So far the responses have been that a few years ago it would have been important ,now it is less so. One said that the English books are sometimes better because they explain more. There is agreement that knowing classical writing would be extremely beneficial but would be out of reach of most English students and would require study for Chinese speakers. I'll continue my informal poll. One native English speaker who reads Chinese says the same although he does now have access to more information about little known herbs. doug > I have bit the bullet and am struggling with medical Chinese for seven > years, even though I have little time and many mouths to feed, patients > to treat, and students to teach. > > I don't agree. I think within 30 hours, one can begin simple > translation work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2002 Report Share Posted November 28, 2002 So far the responses have been that a few years ago it would have been important ,now it is less so. One said that the English books are sometimes better because they explain more. >>>You can add Bai Bian Zhu an MA in TCM alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2002 Report Share Posted November 28, 2002 , douglas wrote: > > Realizing that none of my Chinese collegues has ever in the last decade mentioned Chinese literacy I've started to ask them directly. So far the responses have been that a few years ago it would have been important ,now it is less so. One said that the English books are sometimes better because they explain more. There is agreement that knowing classical writing would be extremely beneficial but would be out of reach of most > English students and would require study for Chinese speakers. I'll continue my informal poll. My chinese colleagues and teachers have been fairly unanimous on this same issue, as has a native german speaker and scholar, Heiner Fruehauf. Of the 20 or so I have polled over the years, they believe it is not a lack of chinese that makes people have trouble with TCM, it is not reading the books we have. some students cannot remember any information about an herb besides category when asked a question without preparation. We have voluminous information on materia medica in english, despite whatever else is lacking, yet many people are not reading and studying beyond what is necessary for test taking. Actually working in a school clinic, it is so clear there are much more fundamental problems than language. there are issues of due diligence, study skills, anti-intellectualism that are major hindrances to even absorbing the connotative translations widely used in TCM schools. the issue of language acquisition is probably the real red herring here. No amount of language acquisition will make up for a program that has not been designed to accommodate adult learners and their special needs. At PCOM, we have devoted ourselves to these broader educational issues at the master's level and by all accounts, including chinese faculty and chinese reading americans in the school clinic, this has resulted in immense improvement in students clinical reasoning and success. Now only an idiot would say that learning chinese would not be helpful; but whether it is significantly more helpful than reliance on good translations (in terms of clinical efficacy) can only be determined by a methodology such as Will suggests. but such a methodology will have to factor out poor students who should never have been admitted to med school and outdated teaching methods that have proven ineffective with adult learners in many different fields (such as rote lectures). You can't teach like crap to students who are unqualified and then make up a scapegoat reason why the students didn't learn. Till then, we can rail all we want. One thing I am pretty sure of. Not a single person on this list has publicly changed their basic position on this issue in the past three years. And believe or not, most of these folks are pretty smart. I may not agree with anyone all the time, but I can tell by how people write whether they are intelligent or not. And what we have here is a disagreement between men and women of equal intelligence. So make your points, but be aware you are unlikely to change anyone's mind if you haven't already. Most of my students are quite dedicated and smart. While I would encourage anyone with the aptitude to learn chinese to do so (so I have more translations to read), do not be discouraged in your studies by those who call you illiterate. I do not consider myself illiterate whatever Ken might think and I would hate to see you slack in your studies because someone made you feel it was a waste of your time unless you read chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2002 Report Share Posted November 28, 2002 the issue of language acquisition is probably the real red herring here. >>>That is what I am wandering about and obviously I have by opinions including the importance of much more clinical medicine both OM and BIOMED alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2002 Report Share Posted November 28, 2002 Now only an idiot would say that learning chinese would not be helpful; but whether it is significantly more helpful than reliance on good translations (in terms of clinical efficacy) can only be determined by a methodology such as Will suggests. >>>Dan's school also has a very strong clinical (system) based approach which in my opinion would account for a better practitioner. alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Chinese Medicine wrote: >Maybe we can create a more diagramable layout of what a truly outstanding OM >curricula should be like and then present it to the schools, ACAOM, etc as a >gift to the profession. > Mike, As a prospective TCM student, I would support this wholeheartedly. It would be so helpful if something like this was posted on, say, the TCM Student site. Students would know what to look for in a program and would demand an outstanding curricula as no one wants to waste time and money and be ill-prepared. I think those of us who are considering TCM as a second profession are a bit older and wiser re: schooling and are seeking information such as this. Trish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Laurie: I know of 3 graduates from SIOM (Seattle Institute of Oriental Medicine) practicing in Bellingham, WA: Judy Chiasson 360/738-8520 Susan Bradbury (360) 715-9010 Kellyanna Dalton 360/738-8520 Caveat: my phone numbers might be outdated, but I know that they are all practicing there. I can especially recommend Kellyanna, who was my classmate, and was previously trained as a massage therapist and is very smart & caring. I've been out of Washington for more than a year now so don't know the current insurance status, sorry. --chris Message: 5 Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:37:07 -0800 Laurie Terzo <lterzo Referral in Bellingham, Washington Hello all, Looking for an experienced practitioner in Bellingham as a patient is moving there shortly. By the way, for those in Washington, she's looking into insurance plans that might cover acupuncture - any advice as to which might cover? thanks! Laurie Terzo, L.Ac. " Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the War Room! " (from Stanley Kubrick's 'Dr. Strangelove') Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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