meridian theory (Re to Greg's post)

January 29, 2006

Greg,

" After reviewing my posts I feel I am not doing a very good job making

my case. "

I would disagree. I think you spoke well and articulately, and gave the

more rational approach to our medicine with clarity.

It is something to think what the ancients knew, and how they

communicated it. Frankly, let us compare the what the world was doing in

200BCE? My goodness, nothing...when Sun Si Mao was developing theories

for Diabetes some years later there wasn't much but pig slop in London,

and lots of it.

There is a level of respect for our lineage that is simply astounding

and is not whatever in any other line of medicine (the Greeks were far

more in line with Chinese thought than current Allopathic theorems).

Much of the difficulty in ascribing place to non-tangible objects as we

do to jingmai is that of Chinese medical history. They simply were

forced to abandon their medicine when penicillin hit the field and

eradicated most of the wen bing with a blink of the eye. When the

traditional medicine was brought back during the cultural revolution,

Deke argues, it was then brought through Mourant's perspective (ie.

non-material basis), but we honestly don't know that this is the

absolute

truth, and in my mind is conjectural.

It simply makes more sense to think of the jingmai in terms of the

Arteries (from Artemis, the masculine) and Venous (from Venus, the

feminine). That it isn't exact is not a problem for me, as it wasn't

until

the 19th century that anyone had clearly mapped the cardiovascular

system. Much of what we see and philosophise concerning the ancients

would be entirely different prior to the 20th century.

My concern for the medicine is that i have had several patients just in

the last week ask if it was " placebo " or conversely that they really

" believed " in the

medicine. This bothers me. My concern is that the basis of Chinese

Medicine as is communicated in general is based on meridian theory, and

all of the aspects

of the medicine, including herbs, massage, diet, are then reduced to

whether one actually thinks there is a system that can't be seen

governing a system that can. This is has subjective verification in Qi

Gong, but is a dis-service to the medicine because it simply can not be

conveyed with any authority.

Again Greg, as you had asked " how does the blood move THROUGH the

meridians? "

I don't see a logical conclusion to that answer other than the

perspective you have

postulated.

Regards, Tymothy

For a really

good discussion of this subject, I HIGHLY recommed Donald Kendell's

book, Dao of

. For those of you adverse to new-agey stuff, don't let

the title of the

book scare you off- this book is anything but new-age. I think Deke in

many ways, but

maybe not all, has hit the nail on the head with his interpretation of

Nei Jing. I can't make a

better or more clear argument than he has made in his book, and even if

I could I don't

have the time. :-)

Best regards, and oh yeah, Happy Chinese New Year to everybody! The

smoke from all the

fireworks here has reduced visibility to less than a couple hundred

meters!! You'd have to

see it to believe it!

Greg

" The greater danger for most of is not that our aim is too high and we miss it,

but that it is too low and we reach it. " Michelangelo

--

http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:

http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html

January 29, 2006

He was the first Westerner to be certified as a Chinese medical

physician in mainland China, and studied there for several years.

On Jan 29, 2006, at 12:54 PM, wrote:

> I do not believe we can find any connection between Mourant and the

> chinese. Do you know of any?

January 29, 2006

Greg,

What about nerves?

Blood carries Qi.

Qi pushes Blood.

Blood also follows nerve.

And we know that naloxone? blocks acupuncture.

Would noloxone block Qi Gong?

Qi You Later,

Cameron

Chinese Medicine , " Z'ev

Rosenberg " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote:

>

> He was the first Westerner to be certified as a Chinese

medical

> physician in mainland China, and studied there for several

years.

>

> On Jan 29, 2006, at 12:54 PM, wrote:

>

> > I do not believe we can find any connection between Mourant

and the

> > chinese. Do you know of any?

>

January 29, 2006

Z'ev

When did was this?

Oakland, CA 94609

-

cameronhollister

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, January 29, 2006 3:31 PM

Re: meridian theory (Re to Greg's post)

Greg,

What about nerves?

Blood carries Qi.

Qi pushes Blood.

Blood also follows nerve.

And we know that naloxone? blocks acupuncture.

Would noloxone block Qi Gong?

Qi You Later,

Cameron

Chinese Medicine , " Z'ev

Rosenberg " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote:

>

> He was the first Westerner to be certified as a Chinese

medical

> physician in mainland China, and studied there for several

years.

>

> On Jan 29, 2006, at 12:54 PM, wrote:

>

> > I do not believe we can find any connection between Mourant

and the

> > chinese. Do you know of any?

>

January 30, 2006

Earlier part of the 20th century. He was in China from 1901 to 1917,

and wrote more than sixty books and articles on Chinese art, music,

history and literature. He was proficient in Chinese language as

well, and studied acupuncture in China with several teachers, before

returning to France to teach in 1917. I think the controversy around

his English work has to do with his translation of qi as 'energy',

which was a popular concept, on the order of 'elan vital', in French

medical circles at the time. However, his work has voluminous

footnotes from the Chinese classics, so while his interpretation of

those classics may be controversial, his sources are sound.

On Jan 29, 2006, at 3:57 PM, wrote:

> Z'ev

> When did was this?

>

January 30, 2006

what was his connection to TCM (ala modern CM) however? Its hard for me to

believe he had any influence on the formation of TCM

Oakland, CA 94609

-

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, January 29, 2006 4:24 PM