Nat'l healthcare - Not a consensus + politics

February 5, 2006

mike bower: One of the largest problems in

healthcare today is that of the privatization of

such.

You may see this as a problem. The older I get,

the more I know of the world around me, the less

I trust the government with my money. For folks

who want to leave all of their healthcare to the

guv, there is the option of moving to a country

that s to that philosophy.

Seriously, I get tired of defending myself - no,

I do not mean this in any argumentative sense -

against assumptions that since I practice

Alternative Medicine, I must be for socialized,

government-ized, aka, national/ single-payor

system, medicine. No, no, no, I do NOT want a

single-payor system. I want competition, and the

government as far away from me and my patients

and my own providers as it can run. Medicare and

Medicaid are fine, but yes, the reimbursement

will always be poor. Ever look at reimbursement

figures? Proportionate to COL, Cost of Living,

reimbursement declines over time.

Okay, now this is turning into a long post. You

can stop now if you want.

Unfortunately, many of our profession who are for

single-payor systems are naive about voting and

legislation in the states, and anywhere, really.

When you have a referrendum in front of you to

establish a single-payor system, you have to read

the piece very carefully. It may be a terrible

piece of legislation, even if the original

concept is exactly what you want. When you vote

for a given initiative, you are voting in the

details of that initiative.

I hope this does not sound simplistic. I speak

from experience with a state association that

endorsed such an initiative. It was obvious to me

that many of us, in spite of good education,

seemed to think that you can vote in a concept,

and the dirty little details will work themselves

out once the measure is passed. No, it does not

work that way. This particular initiative,

heretofor Measure 32 - not the real number, but

locals will know this, was very badly written.

Our state operates on a fiscal biennium, but the

measure was written to be retroactive 10 months

the beginning of the calender year. Ouch,

bookkeeping H -E- double toothipix. How about

some logical approach, e.g., making the new

legislation effective the beginning of the next

biennium, so there would have been time to design

the accounting.

This legislation also had residency requirements

that amounted to almost no residency requirement

- instant, I'm eligible for this total

state-generated healthcare b/c I decided 5

minutes after I entered the state that I am going

to stay here till I die - or until another state

has a better package deal.

Let me delineate several notes about my state

association's choice to be only primary

professional's association to have endorsed that

particular measure.

1. The next spring, at the annual meeting, the

association prez said, and I quote, " In the

future, we want to look at these pieces very

carefully. " She went on to say that, " ...at the

last minute... " the board had discovered some

details about Measure 32 with which said board

was not pleased. " What were those details? " I

politely asked from the floor. " We don't really

have time to go into those in this venue. "

Translated in my mind: We have to reveal what

mistakes we believe we made to the general

membership.

2. Approximately 1/2 of our dues that previous

election year went to pay the lobbyist to work on

behalf of this measure's passage.

....Most of the time since Measure 32, I have not

paid dues to my state aom association. I figure,

I should rejoin, I could so some writing and

publishing, just as certain colleagues have

recommended. But, I have not gotten past the

sense of being an outsider-CM practitioner. I am

fiscally conservative, but politically, I am

really out of bounds. Oh no, I am not one of

those Ditto Heads, even worse, I listen to Bill

Oreilly, and I keep terrible bedtimes b/c - gasp

- I am up listening to Coast to Coast at night.

BTW, I do not have TV hooked up, and I listen to

lots of talk radio. I am pro-Choice, Completely

anti-death penalty, and am anti-Assisted Suicide.

I would have a handgun and a Conceal-Carry permit

now if I already had the budget. I am a Christian

- I have run into problems with that on a

closely-related , but I am not - gasp

again, heterosexual. So, I do not fit

conservative pigeonholes, and I do not fit

liberal pigenholes - where I find most of my

colleagues, it seems.

I am almost 10 yrs into this profession. I love

it, it works, I am so glad I do this. One goal

this year is to Work More and spend less time at

the Night Job. I love these forums, even though I

can not keep up with All of the e-mails, I am so

glad they are here. I think of myself as a peon

here, usually reading and soaking up the sharing

of professionals with much more experience than I

have. Yet, I think, I would do anything to get

into teaching part-time b/c I would really like

to share some of what I have already learned.

When I guest-lectured at Clinic Orientations,

very early in my career, the instructor really

liked what I said. She asked for me again in the

future.

I promise not to be so verbiose in the future!

February 5, 2006

Wow, where to start?

I will keep it simple. The issue of privatization of today's healthcare has

dramatically killed healthcare in America. In my state, the attorney

general has issued a report that HMO's have almost 20% adminstrative

overhead (massages, exec lunches, golf trips ,etc) while Medicare is about

2-3%. I would think you would be upset with the spending of your insurance

dollars on these items with no accountability.

America spends the most on healthcare and has found itself at 27th place in

actual quality of care, definitely a good value. (Are you aware that we are

the only industrialized nation of the top 10 that has no form of universal

healthcare coverage?) This is not reasurring if you are an economist or want

your money's worth. Getting accurate info is the first place to start.

Maybe you can share with us where you think the healthcare competition is

going to come from? Some might think alternative medicine but I think not.

We are currently being squeezed as insurance premiums, copays etc escalate

and so goes the out-of-pocket money for our services, remember all that

money in the JAMA report years ago. This issue is one of professional

preservation and that we need to deal with collectively, it is not an

option. By the way, the single payer legislation is also for keeping govt

out of your medical decisions, something the insurance companies do not want

to give up.

There has never been any provision to force a pracitioner to accept Medicare

or that we all have to create the same rates. The beauty behind this is

that many insurance companies currently look at Medicare to decide if this

is reimbursable. Passage of this one piece of legislation can open up

opportunities for the needy to get access to our services along with greater

inclusion in the healthcare system. This last point is important if we are

to continue to grow and contribute in a larger, meaningful way. I feel for

your frustration with your state association as we have lost ours, here, to

the chiro's.

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> " J. Lynn Detamore " <lynndetamore

>Chinese Medicine

>Nat'l healthcare - Not a consensus + politics

>Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:31:25 -0800 (PST)

>

>mike bower: One of the largest problems in

>healthcare today is that of the privatization of

>such.

>

>You may see this as a problem. The older I get,

>the more I know of the world around me, the less

>I trust the government with my money. For folks

>who want to leave all of their healthcare to the

>guv, there is the option of moving to a country

>that s to that philosophy.

>

>Seriously, I get tired of defending myself - no,

>I do not mean this in any argumentative sense -

>against assumptions that since I practice

>Alternative Medicine, I must be for socialized,

>government-ized, aka, national/ single-payor

>system, medicine. No, no, no, I do NOT want a

>single-payor system. I want competition, and the

>government as far away from me and my patients

>and my own providers as it can run. Medicare and

>Medicaid are fine, but yes, the reimbursement

>will always be poor. Ever look at reimbursement

>figures? Proportionate to COL, Cost of Living,

>reimbursement declines over time.

>

>Okay, now this is turning into a long post. You

>can stop now if you want.

>

>Unfortunately, many of our profession who are for

>single-payor systems are naive about voting and

>legislation in the states, and anywhere, really.

>When you have a referrendum in front of you to

>establish a single-payor system, you have to read

>the piece very carefully. It may be a terrible

>piece of legislation, even if the original

>concept is exactly what you want. When you vote

>for a given initiative, you are voting in the

>details of that initiative.

>

>I hope this does not sound simplistic. I speak

>from experience with a state association that

>endorsed such an initiative. It was obvious to me

>that many of us, in spite of good education,

>seemed to think that you can vote in a concept,

>and the dirty little details will work themselves

>out once the measure is passed. No, it does not

>work that way. This particular initiative,

>heretofor Measure 32 - not the real number, but

>locals will know this, was very badly written.

>Our state operates on a fiscal biennium, but the

>measure was written to be retroactive 10 months

>the beginning of the calender year. Ouch,

>bookkeeping H -E- double toothipix. How about

>some logical approach, e.g., making the new

>legislation effective the beginning of the next

>biennium, so there would have been time to design

>the accounting.

>

>This legislation also had residency requirements

>that amounted to almost no residency requirement

>- instant, I'm eligible for this total

>state-generated healthcare b/c I decided 5

>minutes after I entered the state that I am going

>to stay here till I die - or until another state

>has a better package deal.

>

>Let me delineate several notes about my state

>association's choice to be only primary

>professional's association to have endorsed that

>particular measure.

>1. The next spring, at the annual meeting, the

>association prez said, and I quote, " In the

>future, we want to look at these pieces very

>carefully. " She went on to say that, " ...at the

>last minute... " the board had discovered some

>details about Measure 32 with which said board

>was not pleased. " What were those details? " I

>politely asked from the floor. " We don't really

>have time to go into those in this venue. "

>Translated in my mind: We have to reveal what

>mistakes we believe we made to the general

>membership.

>2. Approximately 1/2 of our dues that previous

>election year went to pay the lobbyist to work on

>behalf of this measure's passage.

>

>...Most of the time since Measure 32, I have not

>paid dues to my state aom association. I figure,

>I should rejoin, I could so some writing and

>publishing, just as certain colleagues have

>recommended. But, I have not gotten past the

>sense of being an outsider-CM practitioner. I am

>fiscally conservative, but politically, I am

>really out of bounds. Oh no, I am not one of

>those Ditto Heads, even worse, I listen to Bill

>Oreilly, and I keep terrible bedtimes b/c - gasp

>- I am up listening to Coast to Coast at night.

>BTW, I do not have TV hooked up, and I listen to

>lots of talk radio. I am pro-Choice, Completely

>anti-death penalty, and am anti-Assisted Suicide.

>I would have a handgun and a Conceal-Carry permit

>now if I already had the budget. I am a Christian

>- I have run into problems with that on a

>closely-related , but I am not - gasp

>again, heterosexual. So, I do not fit

>conservative pigeonholes, and I do not fit

>liberal pigenholes - where I find most of my

>colleagues, it seems.

>

>I am almost 10 yrs into this profession. I love

>it, it works, I am so glad I do this. One goal

>this year is to Work More and spend less time at

>the Night Job. I love these forums, even though I

>can not keep up with All of the e-mails, I am so

>glad they are here. I think of myself as a peon

>here, usually reading and soaking up the sharing

>of professionals with much more experience than I

>have. Yet, I think, I would do anything to get

>into teaching part-time b/c I would really like

>to share some of what I have already learned.

>When I guest-lectured at Clinic Orientations,

>very early in my career, the instructor really

>liked what I said. She asked for me again in the

>future.

>

>I promise not to be so verbiose in the future!

>

February 5, 2006

J. Lynn Detamore wrote:

<snip>

> some details about Measure 32

Hi J. Lynn!

Measure 32? I found something about Title 32, is this what you mean?

<http://www.wvs.state.wv.us/acupuncture/title32/32-7.htm>

Regards,

Pete

February 6, 2006

Perhaps a government program providing a $5,000 or $10,000 deductable

universally, with employers taking up the slack might provide the best of both

plans.

That is giving people choice for Health Care and recognizing its costs, while

providing a safety net for those who incur extreme illness or injury.

Who knows. We may end up seeing physicians develop an impression of doctors

working for patients and not visa versa.

David Molony

In a message dated 2/4/06 9:19:08 PM, naturaldoc1 writes:

> Wow, where to start?

>

> I will keep it simple. The issue of privatization of today's healthcare has

> dramatically killed healthcare in America. In my state, the attorney

> general has issued a report that HMO's have almost 20% adminstrative

> overhead (massages, exec lunches, golf trips ,etc) while Medicare is about

> 2-3%. I would think you would be upset with the spending of your insurance

> dollars on these items with no accountability.

>

> America spends the most on healthcare and has found itself at 27th place in

> actual quality of care, definitely a good value. (Are you aware that we are

> the only industrialized nation of the top 10 that has no form of universal

> healthcare coverage?) This is not reasurring if you are an economist or want

> your money's worth. Getting accurate info is the first place to start.

> Maybe you can share with us where you think the healthcare competition is

> going to come from? Some might think alternative medicine but I think not.

> We are currently being squeezed as insurance premiums, copays etc escalate

> and so goes the out-of-pocket money for our services, remember all that

> money in the JAMA report years ago. This issue is one of professional

> preservation and that we need to deal with collectively, it is not an

> option. By the way, the single payer legislation is also for keeping govt

> out of your medical decisions, something the insurance companies do not want

> to give up.

>

> There has never been any provision to force a pracitioner to accept Medicare

> or that we all have to create the same rates. The beauty behind this is

> that many insurance companies currently look at Medicare to decide if this

> is reimbursable. Passage of this one piece of legislation can open up

> opportunities for the needy to get access to our services along with greater

> inclusion in the healthcare system. This last point is important if we are

> to continue to grow and contribute in a larger, meaningful way. I feel for

> your frustration with your state association as we have lost ours, here, to

> the chiro's.

>

> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> > " J. Lynn Detamore " <lynndetamore

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Nat'l healthcare - Not a consensus + politics

> >Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:31:25 -0800 (PST)

> >

> >mike bower: One of the largest problems in

> >healthcare today is that of the privatization of

> >such.

> >

> >You may see this as a problem. The older I get,

> >the more I know of the world around me, the less

> >I trust the government with my money. For folks

> >who want to leave all of their healthcare to the

> >guv, there is the option of moving to a country

> >that s to that philosophy.

> >

> >Seriously, I get tired of defending myself - no,

> >I do not mean this in any argumentative sense -

> >against assumptions that since I practice

> >Alternative Medicine, I must be for socialized,

> >government-ized, aka, national/ single-payor

> >system, medicine. No, no, no, I do NOT want a

> >single-payor system. I want competition, and the

> >government as far away from me and my patients

> >and my own providers as it can run. Medicare and

> >Medicaid are fine, but yes, the reimbursement

> >will always be poor. Ever look at reimbursement

> >figures? Proportionate to COL, Cost of Living,

> >reimbursement declines over time.

> >

> >Okay, now this is turning into a long post. You

> >can stop now if you want.

> >

> >Unfortunately, many of our profession who are for

> >single-payor systems are naive about voting and

> >legislation in the states, and anywhere, really.

> >When you have a referrendum in front of you to

> >establish a single-payor system, you have to read

> >the piece very carefully. It may be a terrible

> >piece of legislation, even if the original

> >concept is exactly what you want. When you vote

> >for a given initiative, you are voting in the

> >details of that initiative.

> >

> >I hope this does not sound simplistic. I speak

> >from experience with a state association that

> >endorsed such an initiative. It was obvious to me

> >that many of us, in spite of good education,

> >seemed to think that you can vote in a concept,

> >and the dirty little details will work themselves

> >out once the measure is passed. No, it does not

> >work that way. This particular initiative,

> >heretofor Measure 32 - not the real number, but

> >locals will know this, was very badly written.

> >Our state operates on a fiscal biennium, but the

> >measure was written to be retroactive 10 months

> >the beginning of the calender year. Ouch,

> >bookkeeping H -E- double toothipix. How about

> >some logical approach, e.g., making the new

> >legislation effective the beginning of the next

> >biennium, so there would have been time to design

> >the accounting.

> >

> >This legislation also had residency requirements

> >that amounted to almost no residency requirement

> >- instant, I'm eligible for this total

> >state-generated healthcare b/c I decided 5

> >minutes after I entered the state that I am going

> >to stay here till I die - or until another state

> >has a better package deal.

> >

> >Let me delineate several notes about my state

> >association's choice to be only primary

> >professional's association to have endorsed that

> >particular measure.

> >1. The next spring, at the annual meeting, the

> >association prez said, and I quote, " In the

> >future, we want to look at these pieces very

> >carefully. " She went on to say that, " ...at the

> >last minute... " the board had discovered some

> >details about Measure 32 with which said board

> >was not pleased. " What were those details? " I

> >politely asked from the floor. " We don't really

> >have time to go into those in this venue. "

> >Translated in my mind: We have to reveal what

> >mistakes we believe we made to the general

> >membership.

> >2. Approximately 1/2 of our dues that previous

> >election year went to pay the lobbyist to work on

> >behalf of this measure's passage.

> >

> >...Most of the time since Measure 32, I have not

> >paid dues to my state aom association. I figure,

> >I should rejoin, I could so some writing and

> >publishing, just as certain colleagues have

> >recommended. But, I have not gotten past the

> >sense of being an outsider-CM practitioner. I am

> >fiscally conservative, but politically, I am

> >really out of bounds. Oh no, I am not one of

> >those Ditto Heads, even worse, I listen to Bill

> >Oreilly, and I keep terrible bedtimes b/c - gasp

> >- I am up listening to Coast to Coast at night.

> >BTW, I do not have TV hooked up, and I listen to

> >lots of talk radio. I am pro-Choice, Completely

> >anti-death penalty, and am anti-Assisted Suicide.

> >I would have a handgun and a Conceal-Carry permit

> >now if I already had the budget. I am a Christian

> >- I have run into problems with that on a

> >closely-related , but I am not - gasp

> >again, heterosexual. So, I do not fit

> >conservative pigeonholes, and I do not fit

> >liberal pigenholes - where I find most of my

> >colleagues, it seems.

> >

> >I am almost 10 yrs into this profession. I love

> >it, it works, I am so glad I do this. One goal

> >this year is to Work More and spend less time at

> >the Night Job. I love these forums, even though I

> >can not keep up with All of the e-mails, I am so

> >glad they are here. I think of myself as a peon

> >here, usually reading and soaking up the sharing

> >of professionals with much more experience than I

> >have. Yet, I think, I would do anything to get

> >into teaching part-time b/c I would really like

> >to share some of what I have already learned.

> >When I guest-lectured at Clinic Orientations,

> >very early in my career, the instructor really

> >liked what I said. She asked for me again in the

> >future.

> >

> >I promise not to be so verbiose in the future!

> >

> >Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around

> >

>

> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

> http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

>

> and adjust

accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

> requires prior permission from the author.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

> necessary.

>

February 7, 2006

In a message dated 2/6/2006 5:19:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

acuman1 writes:

Perhaps a government program providing a $5,000 or $10,000 deductable

For 98% of the population that would mean that they really will not receive

any benefit from having a health insurance plan.

I my question is did you dream this up?

February 16, 2006

If they had a major problem, they would not lose their house or everything

they own. That is no difference? They might even choose to spend their money

on us instead of the pap they get for " free " now.

DAVE

In a message dated 2/8/06 12:26:21 AM, KarateStan writes:

>

> In a message dated 2/6/2006 5:19:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> acuman1 writes:

>

> Perhaps a government program providing a $5,000 or $10,000 deductable

>

> For 98% of the population that would mean that they really will not receive

> any benefit from having a health insurance plan.

> I my question is did you dream this up?

>

" The Art of being wise is the Art of knowing what to overlook. "

William James

David Molony

101 Bridge Street

Catasauqua, PA 18032

Phone (610)264-2755

Fax (610) 264-7292

**********Confidentiality Notice **********

This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other

writings are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended

recipient(s) identified above. This message may contain information

that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure

under applicable law, including the FTC Safeguard Rule and U.S.-EU Safe

Harbor Principles. If you are the intended recipient, you are

responsible for establishing appropriate safeguards to maintain data

integrity and security. If the receiver of this information is not the intended

recipient, or the employee, or agent responsible for

delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby

notified that any use, reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or

storage of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have

received this information in error, please notify the sender by return

email and delete the electronic transmission, including all attachments from

your system.

February 17, 2006

It is clear that we do not have a good grasp of the big picture as far as

healthcare in the US is concerned. The only logical piece is to have a

universal coverage system that is single payer. There are many politicians

(and hopfully platforms) that will continue to bring this issue up and it is

one of the major poblems with national and personal economies. Until this

piece is solved we will continue to see a decline. The Republican idea is

to drop all govt coverage as well as corporate. I think that we forget

that corp were the ones who introduced it post WWII to bring employees into

their factories. Healthcare is a right and something that all people

deserve to have. Society prospers when its members have it. To all your

good health.

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>acuman1

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: Nat'l healthcare - Not a consensus + politics

>Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:45:05 EST

>

>If they had a major problem, they would not lose their house or

>everything

>they own. That is no difference? They might even choose to spend their

>money

>on us instead of the pap they get for " free " now.

>DAVE

>In a message dated 2/8/06 12:26:21 AM, KarateStan writes:

> >

> > In a message dated 2/6/2006 5:19:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> > acuman1 writes:

> >

> > Perhaps a government program providing a $5,000 or $10,000 deductable

> >

> > For 98% of the population that would mean that they really will not

>receive

> > any benefit from having a health insurance plan.

> > I my question is did you dream this up?

> " The Art of being wise is the Art of knowing what to overlook. "

>William James

>

>David Molony

>101 Bridge Street

>Catasauqua, PA 18032

>Phone (610)264-2755

>Fax (610) 264-7292

>

>**********Confidentiality Notice **********

>This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other

>writings are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended

>recipient(s) identified above. This message may contain information

>that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure

>under applicable law, including the FTC Safeguard Rule and U.S.-EU Safe

>Harbor Principles. If you are the intended recipient, you are

>responsible for establishing appropriate safeguards to maintain data

>integrity and security. If the receiver of this information is not the

>intended

>recipient, or the employee, or agent responsible for

>delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby

>notified that any use, reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or

>storage of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have

>received this information in error, please notify the sender by return

>email and delete the electronic transmission, including all attachments

>from

>your system.

>

February 17, 2006

Mike,

Will you stop discussing US politics on this forum!

Otherwise I'll have to moderate all your messages again.

Warm regards,

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M.

Editor

Times

07786 198900

enquiries

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

Bowser

17 February 2006 14:38

Chinese Medicine

Re: Nat'l healthcare - Not a consensus + politics