additional thoughts about the jerks

[Guest guest]

Dear Roseanne and Barb,

 

Let me comment and elaborate further. I do something that my clinical

supervisors told me was forbidden to do when I was in school: I do CranioSacral

therapy and when indicated, SomatoEmotional release, after placing the needles.

Rather then letting them " cook " for 30 or so minutes, I actively place my hands

where intuitively I feel they are needed. The disadvantage is obviously, that I

see fewer patients per day than most of you, (each session is 2 hours) but this

combination seems to powerfully open blockages and release much more rapidly

stagnation, often with dramatic results. As you say Roseanne, jerks and

twitches are commonly observed while doing bodywork and I see them often. I

also think that it is significant that in the case of your patient, they

occurred after acupuncture. Here's my explanation for what's happening: We

know that the sensation of qi moving and unblocking can be felt as a

heaviness, a pulsating, a feeling of cold or of hot, or an

electric sensation. I would suggest that there are times when the qi is

stimulated to move, but the degree of blockage in the channel prevents it from

smoothly getting through, much like a garden hose which is partially blocked.

IMHO, this is when symptoms such as your patient is feeling, Barb, occur.

Sometimes during treatment I will see a patient have sudden seizure-like jerks,

sometimes uncontrollable shivering, sometimes a patient will suddenly say that

they are freezing, even though the temp in my office is 74 degrees,(I have

standing by a small portable radiator which I commonly use, even here in

California, for that reason) sometimes there will be uncontrollable crying,

sometimes non-stop tremor, sometimes laughter, sometimes shouting and yelling.

In all cases, and without exception, when the channel opens up and the qi is

able to flow uninhibitedly, these " artifacts " of stagnation disappear. But a

warning: And this is something else that they didn't get in

my clinical training, often these manifestations of qi stagnation and liver

wind are releasing stored trauma, either physical or emotional. A patient is

in an incredibly vulnerable position, and you can make all the difference in the

world! It is during these difficult moments that they REALLY need our support,

and even if you are not trained in bodywork, stay with the patient and let them

know that you are there for them. Certainly don't leave the room and let them

work their own problem out. They may not express it, but they will feel

abandoned. All that that will do is prolong the release and their suffering.

Don't underestimate the power of intention and (dare I use the word for the

danger of misinterpretation) love. One of the most powerful images I have is

from a memory that occurred when I was 16. A dear friend and neighbor decided

that he wanted to drop mescaline. It was his first drug experience and it was

painfully disturbing to both of us. I don't

want to go into the gory details of his trip, including non-stop vomiting, but

all during his hours of hallucinations and suffering, he kept begging me, over

and over, " help me, help me, don't leave me! " And I stayed till he finally fell

asleep. I felt a responsibility then, and I feel the same responsibility now.

Personally, I don't think the physician or the neurologist will find anything,

and if they don't listen to your inner-wisdom, continue needling, and soon the

jerking will stop, IY " H.

 

SIncerely,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.

 

ra6151 wrote:

These kind of jerks or twitches are very commonly observed when doing

bodywork. (my former profession) There may be different biomedical

explanations; my

former teacher explained them as indicative of " broken synapses, " mostly in

the autonomic nerves. I have observed that these twitches diminish over time

if the person seeks enough work to become more integrated and harmonized.

 

In TCM, I guess one might call it internal wind.

 

---roseanne s.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda:

 

beautifully said. Thanks Yehuda. I totally agree with you. I have found that

there is something in the fact that this " patient " is trusting you or me with

his precious soul that is very special and inducive to healing and I try my best

to figure out, with the points, herbs, massage, etc. how to activate his own

desire to heal himself through this connection. I commend you for putting in

the time and effort to truly reach the people who come to you.

 

Joyce from Israel

-

yehuda frischman

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:25 AM

additional thoughts about " the " jerks "

 

 

Dear Roseanne and Barb,

 

Let me comment and elaborate further. I do something that my clinical

supervisors told me was forbidden to do when I was in school: I do CranioSacral

therapy and when indicated, SomatoEmotional release, after placing the needles.

Rather then letting them " cook " for 30 or so minutes, I actively place my hands

where intuitively I feel they are needed. The disadvantage is obviously, that I

see fewer patients per day than most of you, (each session is 2 hours) but this

combination seems to powerfully open blockages and release much more rapidly

stagnation, often with dramatic results. As you say Roseanne, jerks and

twitches are commonly observed while doing bodywork and I see them often. I

also think that it is significant that in the case of your patient, they

occurred after acupuncture. Here's my explanation for what's happening: We

know that the sensation of qi moving and unblocking can be felt as a

heaviness, a pulsating, a feeling of cold or of hot, or an

electric sensation. I would suggest that there are times when the qi is

stimulated to move, but the degree of blockage in the channel prevents it from

smoothly getting through, much like a garden hose which is partially blocked.

IMHO, this is when symptoms such as your patient is feeling, Barb, occur.

Sometimes during treatment I will see a patient have sudden seizure-like jerks,

sometimes uncontrollable shivering, sometimes a patient will suddenly say that

they are freezing, even though the temp in my office is 74 degrees,(I have

standing by a small portable radiator which I commonly use, even here in

California, for that reason) sometimes there will be uncontrollable crying,

sometimes non-stop tremor, sometimes laughter, sometimes shouting and yelling.

In all cases, and without exception, when the channel opens up and the qi is

able to flow uninhibitedly, these " artifacts " of stagnation disappear. But a

warning: And this is something else that they didn't get in

my clinical training, often these manifestations of qi stagnation and liver

wind are releasing stored trauma, either physical or emotional. A patient is

in an incredibly vulnerable position, and you can make all the difference in the

world! It is during these difficult moments that they REALLY need our support,

and even if you are not trained in bodywork, stay with the patient and let them

know that you are there for them. Certainly don't leave the room and let them

work their own problem out. They may not express it, but they will feel

abandoned. All that that will do is prolong the release and their suffering.

Don't underestimate the power of intention and (dare I use the word for the

danger of misinterpretation) love. One of the most powerful images I have is

from a memory that occurred when I was 16. A dear friend and neighbor decided

that he wanted to drop mescaline. It was his first drug experience and it was

painfully disturbing to both of us. I don't

want to go into the gory details of his trip, including non-stop vomiting, but

all during his hours of hallucinations and suffering, he kept begging me, over

and over, " help me, help me, don't leave me! " And I stayed till he finally fell

asleep. I felt a responsibility then, and I feel the same responsibility now.

Personally, I don't think the physician or the neurologist will find anything,

and if they don't listen to your inner-wisdom, continue needling, and soon the

jerking will stop, IY " H.

 

SIncerely,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.

 

ra6151 wrote:

These kind of jerks or twitches are very commonly observed when doing

bodywork. (my former profession) There may be different biomedical

explanations; my

former teacher explained them as indicative of " broken synapses, " mostly in

the autonomic nerves. I have observed that these twitches diminish over time

if the person seeks enough work to become more integrated and harmonized.

 

In TCM, I guess one might call it internal wind.

 

---roseanne s.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your help, Yehuda!

 

 

 

_____

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of yehuda

frischman

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:26 PM

Chinese Medicine

additional thoughts about " the " jerks "

 

 

 

Dear Roseanne and Barb,

 

Let me comment and elaborate further. I do something that my clinical

supervisors told me was forbidden to do when I was in school: I do

CranioSacral therapy and when indicated, SomatoEmotional release, after

placing the needles. Rather then letting them " cook " for 30 or so minutes,

I actively place my hands where intuitively I feel they are needed. The

disadvantage is obviously, that I see fewer patients per day than most of

you, (each session is 2 hours) but this combination seems to powerfully open

blockages and release much more rapidly stagnation, often with dramatic

results. As you say Roseanne, jerks and twitches are commonly observed

while doing bodywork and I see them often. I also think that it is

significant that in the case of your patient, they occurred after

acupuncture. Here's my explanation for what's happening: We know that the

sensation of qi moving and unblocking can be felt as a heaviness, a

pulsating, a feeling of cold or of hot, or an

electric sensation. I would suggest that there are times when the qi is

stimulated to move, but the degree of blockage in the channel prevents it

from smoothly getting through, much like a garden hose which is partially

blocked. IMHO, this is when symptoms such as your patient is feeling,

Barb, occur. Sometimes during treatment I will see a patient have sudden

seizure-like jerks, sometimes uncontrollable shivering, sometimes a patient

will suddenly say that they are freezing, even though the temp in my office

is 74 degrees,(I have standing by a small portable radiator which I commonly

use, even here in California, for that reason) sometimes there will be

uncontrollable crying, sometimes non-stop tremor, sometimes laughter,

sometimes shouting and yelling. In all cases, and without exception, when

the channel opens up and the qi is able to flow uninhibitedly, these

" artifacts " of stagnation disappear. But a warning: And this is something

else that they didn't get in

my clinical training, often these manifestations of qi stagnation and liver

wind are releasing stored trauma, either physical or emotional. A patient

is in an incredibly vulnerable position, and you can make all the difference

in the world! It is during these difficult moments that they REALLY need

our support, and even if you are not trained in bodywork, stay with the

patient and let them know that you are there for them. Certainly don't

leave the room and let them work their own problem out. They may not express

it, but they will feel abandoned. All that that will do is prolong the

release and their suffering. Don't underestimate the power of intention and

(dare I use the word for the danger of misinterpretation) love. One of the

most powerful images I have is from a memory that occurred when I was 16. A

dear friend and neighbor decided that he wanted to drop mescaline. It was

his first drug experience and it was painfully disturbing to both of us. I

don't

want to go into the gory details of his trip, including non-stop vomiting,

but all during his hours of hallucinations and suffering, he kept begging

me, over and over, " help me, help me, don't leave me! " And I stayed till he

finally fell asleep. I felt a responsibility then, and I feel the same

responsibility now. Personally, I don't think the physician or the

neurologist will find anything, and if they don't listen to your

inner-wisdom, continue needling, and soon the jerking will stop, IY " H.

 

SIncerely,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.

 

ra6151 wrote:

These kind of jerks or twitches are very commonly observed when doing

bodywork. (my former profession) There may be different biomedical

explanations; my

former teacher explained them as indicative of " broken synapses, " mostly in

the autonomic nerves. I have observed that these twitches diminish over

time

if the person seeks enough work to become more integrated and harmonized.

 

In TCM, I guess one might call it internal wind.

 

---roseanne s.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Beautifully said Yehuda.

 

I've seen this type of jerking motions and even uncontrollable shaking

with my hypnotherapy. As the conscious mind relaxes its control and

guard, the body is able to move into it's own expression. It makes

sense that one could see this type of thing with both body work and

acupuncture.

 

It is scary the first few times to witnesses this occur. I've seen it

enough times to stay calm now. Like anger, sometimes it is difficult to

be around until we can see it for what they really is - movement of

energy, expression of will or a defensive expression of fear. Being

able to be with it and help the patient transform it, or at least find

meaning in it is what our jobs are all about.

 

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

Oasis Acupuncture

<http://www.oasisacupuncture.com/> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte

Suite D-35

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

yehuda frischman

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:26 PM

Chinese Medicine

additional thoughts about " the " jerks "

 

 

Dear Roseanne and Barb,

 

Let me comment and elaborate further. I do something that my clinical

supervisors told me was forbidden to do when I was in school: I do

CranioSacral therapy and when indicated, SomatoEmotional release, after

placing the needles. Rather then letting them " cook " for 30 or so

minutes, I actively place my hands where intuitively I feel they are

needed. The disadvantage is obviously, that I see fewer patients per

day than most of you, (each session is 2 hours) but this combination

seems to powerfully open blockages and release much more rapidly

stagnation, often with dramatic results. As you say Roseanne, jerks and

twitches are commonly observed while doing bodywork and I see them

often. I also think that it is significant that in the case of your

patient, they occurred after acupuncture. Here's my explanation for

what's happening: We know that the sensation of qi moving and

unblocking can be felt as a heaviness, a pulsating, a feeling of cold

or of hot, or an

electric sensation. I would suggest that there are times when the qi is

stimulated to move, but the degree of blockage in the channel prevents

it from smoothly getting through, much like a garden hose which is

partially blocked. IMHO, this is when symptoms such as your patient is

feeling, Barb, occur. Sometimes during treatment I will see a patient

have sudden seizure-like jerks, sometimes uncontrollable shivering,

sometimes a patient will suddenly say that they are freezing, even

though the temp in my office is 74 degrees,(I have standing by a small

portable radiator which I commonly use, even here in California, for

that reason) sometimes there will be uncontrollable crying, sometimes

non-stop tremor, sometimes laughter, sometimes shouting and yelling. In

all cases, and without exception, when the channel opens up and the qi

is able to flow uninhibitedly, these " artifacts " of stagnation

disappear. But a warning: And this is something else that they didn't

get in

my clinical training, often these manifestations of qi stagnation and

liver wind are releasing stored trauma, either physical or emotional. A

patient is in an incredibly vulnerable position, and you can make all

the difference in the world! It is during these difficult moments that

they REALLY need our support, and even if you are not trained in

bodywork, stay with the patient and let them know that you are there for

them. Certainly don't leave the room and let them work their own

problem out. They may not express it, but they will feel abandoned.

All that that will do is prolong the release and their suffering. Don't

underestimate the power of intention and (dare I use the word for the

danger of misinterpretation) love. One of the most powerful images I

have is from a memory that occurred when I was 16. A dear friend and

neighbor decided that he wanted to drop mescaline. It was his first

drug experience and it was painfully disturbing to both of us. I don't

want to go into the gory details of his trip, including non-stop

vomiting, but all during his hours of hallucinations and suffering, he

kept begging me, over and over, " help me, help me, don't leave me! " And

I stayed till he finally fell asleep. I felt a responsibility then, and

I feel the same responsibility now. Personally, I don't think the

physician or the neurologist will find anything, and if they don't

listen to your inner-wisdom, continue needling, and soon the jerking

will stop, IY " H.

 

SIncerely,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.

 

ra6151 wrote:

These kind of jerks or twitches are very commonly observed when doing

bodywork. (my former profession) There may be different biomedical

explanations; my

former teacher explained them as indicative of " broken synapses, " mostly

in

the autonomic nerves. I have observed that these twitches diminish

over time

if the person seeks enough work to become more integrated and

harmonized.

 

In TCM, I guess one might call it internal wind.

 

---roseanne s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Good analysis all around, although I think the

diagnosis can be seen as more specific to the

sinew channels, in that the twitching is probably

reflexive, where the primary channels are said to

carry more cognitive, conditioned behavior. Also

the idea of internal/Liver wind usually has more

serious implications (neurological), and often

involves the Jing/Yuan or constitutional level.

Prehaps as sinew taiyang, as Barb found

(pulsewise) with SI & UB, it's more an external

wind, like shivering. And the hand taiyang

closely tracks the trapezius muscle. Confirmation

would be finding tension or symptoms accompanying

extension of the upper limb, as in reaching out

(taiyang motion; where maneuvering,

pronating/supinating would be shaoyang, and

grasping/holding yangming). But such

differentiation between and within channel

systems is another of those areas not dealt with

in depth in school training. If there were

pronounced emotional discharge, then the luo

channels are releasing from the primary channels,

via blood, to the wei or sinew level (and out of

the body). There might then be also indications of pain and/or discoloration.

 

Though in a less dramatic way, I find patients

often experiencing musculo-tendinal motions,

twitches or squirming that comes and goes under

the needles. I interpret this rather like

Christopher Vedeler, in that most of waking time

the musculo-skeletal system is constrained the

body forced to do what the mind wants, i.e.

driving, at the computer, walking, even standing

there putting needles in… Being needled provides

an opportunity to wakefully (as opposed to sleep)

experience the limbs, sinews, organs etc.

floating free of volitional control, and doing

what they want to do. I encourage watchfullness

of such events, without resistance or judgement.

At times to the point of allowing " sinew

release " , in the sense, for instance, of letting

tension takes its own course, even to the extreme

point/yang (as in a cramp) where it can release

into its opposite, yin/relaxation.

 

wrote:

>The essence of qi is not energy, and it is not

vital force, but rather it is connectivity.

 

I like that image in that it conveys that qi

behavior, as I perceive it, moves across

different tissues, rather than strictly in pipes

(vessels) or wires (nerves). This goes against

the common interpretation of channels/jing as

physical conduits, which has also been

interpreted classically more metaphorical than

strictly descriptive. In the modern context, I

once heard or read an observation by another

practitioner it may have been a

chiropractor that all the different tissues are

intimately connected in a continuum, head to toe,

and this connectivity is profoundly functional.

As distinct from the analytical (and pedagogical)

bias of anatomy, that the tissue types are

morphologically and functionally distinct (e.g.

colored differently in the illustrations).

Analytically this is true. But functionally (in

living flesh) behavior or qi moves through the

mesh of tissue connectivity like waves.

 

and >When a physician (I know I shouldn't use that word, but tough!)…

 

Actually, I recall that the California Worker's

Comp law defines acupuncturists as " physicians " ,

in the context of Worker's Comp. In fact, the

break-through achieved in that law (SB840)

coincided with the initial breakthrough into

insurance coverage in general. I wouldn't flaunt

the term " physician " around MDs, but we are, in

WC, and as primary care providers, technically in that ballpark.