Guest guest Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 You really are a very wise man! LOL! Jonee > But Bitch problems are worse. ;-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 At 09:21 PM 12/28/2003 -0800, you wrote: >But Bitch problems are worse. ;-p ha ha -- ya caught it! >> As you said, the post didn't say anything about inhalation. > >As far as my logic tells me .. the body has other means of disposing of >inhaled substances other than the liver & kidneys. > >Martin .. you might need to comment on this .. but I can't imagine a >case of liver toxicity due to inhalation. > >> Cannot find any references but, since inhalation takes the molecules >> into the brain as well as the lungs, I don't know why I cannot find >> anything. If it's that bad for ingestion, it's gotta have a negative >> effect on some people on inhalation. > >Not the same .. inhalation, ingestion and absorption are different >animals as far as how the body processes and eliminates. Gotta disagree Butch. I *know* inhalation damages the liver. EOs (not just the bitch and WG we're discussing here :-) are solvents, and I learned this the hard way. I've written about it before, so I'll keep it short and sweet here: I went on a sniffing binge after 9/11 (my way of dealing with stress) and in February 2002, when I usually got my one-week mango flower allergy, I got it for six weeks instead. My liver had been damaged by all the sniffing, as much as if I had been drinking hard liquor every night. I laid off the excessive sniffing, started taking liver-protecting herbs on an almost-daily basis, and in Feb. 2003, didn't get the allergy at all, the first time allergy-free in 12 years! Anyway, back to my original query: I was asking whether the EOs damaged the liver or any organ via inhalation, since I'm sure they DO, I was just asking for some citations on the matter. I passed on the post the Lynn, one of the folks interested in the MS toxicity issue, and here's what she wrote back: ><Not the same .. inhalation, ingestion and absorption are different animals >as far as how the body processes and eliminates. > > >Yes, I had toxicology, digestion/metabolism, respiration and elimination >classes. As soon as I get some time I'm going to look into this more >thoroughly. > >My point is that vapors inhaled can affect organs in addition to the lungs >and it's often overlooked, even by those affected. > >I had to stop working in a dental lab many years ago because vapors from >acrylic mix used for making dental models and the solvent used for acrylic >cement pumped my blood pressure up immediately. > >Even if I didn't smell it, I knew there was an open can nearby from the >percolation going on in my head. Everyone in this department of the lab, >regardless of age, weight, etc., had hbp. (Of course, no one but I thought >it strange that 20-25 year olds had high blood pressure with no family >history, etc. They just popped their pills and didn't question anything.) > >After I quit the job my bp normalized and stayed that way unless I went near >a nail salon featuring acrylic nails and tips. Just a peep in the doorway >to look for a friend one day caused instant metallic/bitter taste, headache, >hbp and fatigue for two days. I have no liver, kidney or other organ >problems according to lab tests. L Anya again -- EOs are solvents, and just one of the environmental pollutant soups we inhale/absorb/ingest every day. And Jen B roused herself from the flu stupor she's in to comment: I have the flu, and possibly pneumonia so I'm hoping someone else will comment in depth on this (am SO tired) - but I wanted to say that yes, liver and kidneys DO metabolise things inhaled - think glue sniffers. The liver and kidneys are the main organs for biotransforming and eliminating blood soluble products - no matter how they enter the bloodstream. ------- This is a good discussion and any info I gather on inhalation/toxicity issues will be posted here. And there. And added to Butch's original lengthy MS posts, which I have saved as a word .doc. Butch, are you ever going to put this stuff on a website? http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hi Anya, > Hi > This is addressed to Butch in particular and everyone in general -- do > you have any citations about the potential dangers of methyl salicylate > *inhalation*? I have saved Butch's past posts about the wintergreen/ > bitch/MS problems with toxicity, Wintergreen (actually, Methyl salicyclate) is definitely toxic and builds up in the liver .. doesn't process well .. accumulates to a point where each additional use builds a cumulative amount in the body. Same goes for Sweet Birch (Betula lenta). But Bitch problems are worse. ;-p Infrequent use of Wintergreen or Sweet Birch would probably not harm a person with a healthy liver .. but folks generally use them for chronic problems so infrequent use is not the norm. I can't tell you just how healthy my liver is .. maybe other folks know more about theirs. First .. 99.99% of the Sweet Birch (Betula lenta) and Wintergreen (Gaultheria procumbens) on the market are composed of synthetic Methyl salicylate .. they are not natural in the first place. And for the other VERY SMALL percentage that's natural, they're just as dangerous if used frequently .. there is exactly no difference. And since they both contain a non natural occurring chemical to begin with there is really no need to produce one from distillation .. it's costly/foolish/useless. Methyl salicyclate smells and tastes nice .. but it is NOT safe when used on a frequent basis. > but someone I passed the posts on to pointed out that there is a lot > there about skin absorption and ingestion, but nothing about > about inhalation. She wrote: Lemme say that Methyl salicyclate is one of the chemicals we KNOW does absorb easily .. all don't .. so much for absorption of whole EO .. and without the absorption of the WHOLE oil .. where is the magic synergy folks like to hang their hats on? > ---------------------- > Thank you so much, Anya. I'm always interested in your posts. Very > well thought out. (PS note to Butch -- the MS stuff I sent her was > fully accredited to you, and the av-at.com link included. I think she's > talking about my posts on the herb list.) > > As you said, the post didn't say anything about inhalation. As far as my logic tells me .. the body has other means of disposing of inhaled substances other than the liver & kidneys. Martin .. you might need to comment on this .. but I can't imagine a case of liver toxicity due to inhalation. > Cannot find any references but, since inhalation takes the molecules > into the brain as well as the lungs, I don't know why I cannot find > anything. If it's that bad for ingestion, it's gotta have a negative > effect on some people on inhalation. Not the same .. inhalation, ingestion and absorption are different animals as far as how the body processes and eliminates. > As for wintergreen, I put it in my leg/feet massage mixture with peanut > and olive oils, eucalyptus, mint and lavender; patients love it but it > keeps me awake at night if I do more than three in a day. Had lowered > the EO % so I can sleep the nights of busy days....unless I had extra > paperwork to do. Remember .. the effects are cumulative. As is the case of a normal 150 lb man, an ounce of alcohol can be eliminated from the system in around one hour .. get too far ahead of this without passing out and we have alcohol poisoning. Same Same for Sweet Birch and Wintergreen that has absorbed into the body. > Looks like I'll stop that now, thanks to the information you sent me. > Have a wonderful 2004. Lynn > -------------------------- > > Anya > http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady Happy New Year y'all. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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