need advice

[Guest guest]

Hi Tatiana,

 

> Did you have such patients, what did you do?

> How do you address the side effects from medicine?

>

 

I once had a client who was on so many medications that it was impossible to

find out which symptom was part of the original complaint and which one was

a side effect of a medication. Add to that which medication was to

counteract the side effect of which... and a confused client who couldn't

tell me what started when. I decided not to worry about what was due to what

and treat the symptoms that were present. The dizinnes and feeling of

" shaking inside " improved but the client suddenly stopped coming.

 

Artemis

[Guest guest]

Artemis:

 

I have been coming to a realization lately. I think there are people hooked on

medications in this country, some very powerful, very toxic pain medications.

They may come to see me for a while because they want the intensity of the pain

to go away, or the side of effect of the drug. But then they realize they may

not need to be taking those pain meds, or you suggest it, or they said that's

why they were coming. But all of the sudden they are gone. When push comes to

shove, they are addicted to the meds. Very strange things can happen. It's

like being addicted to alcohol, cocaine or cigarettes. Do you really want to

give it up? Patients can delay going back to the doctor to let them know they

feel better, or sometimes create another crisis. Once, I had a guy say, " Oh,

you really aren't helping my shoulder pain. He would take a pain pill before he

walked in the door. He was pretty addicted to heavy pain pills too.

 

So I am just offering some ideas for why people might might disappear like you

said.

 

Anne

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" Artemis Papert " <artemis.artemis

> Hi Tatiana,

>

> > Did you have such patients, what did you do?

> > How do you address the side effects from medicine?

> >

>

> I once had a client who was on so many medications that it was impossible to

> find out which symptom was part of the original complaint and which one was

> a side effect of a medication. Add to that which medication was to

> counteract the side effect of which... and a confused client who couldn't

> tell me what started when. I decided not to worry about what was due to what

> and treat the symptoms that were present. The dizinnes and feeling of

> " shaking inside " improved but the client suddenly stopped coming.

>

> Artemis

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

> I have been coming to a realization lately. I think there are people

> hooked on medications in this country,....

>

Or hooked to their disease/problem. They'll disappear as soon as they

realise that you could REALLY help them. I once knew this person who was

always run down with colds and feeling exhausted. One day she says " If I had

more energy I don't know what I'd do with it " !

 

Artemis

[Guest guest]

In my practice, I have found that many people that seek out Oriental

medicine " as a last resort " are very attached to their illnesses. The

illnesses seem to provide them with a lot of negative attention from

friends and family, and provide a convenient excuse not to do things.

 

Whenever I treat patients like them, regardless of their chief

complaint, I always strive to calm their shen. They always " say "

that they want to get better and are usually very well informed about

their diagnosed conditions, however, they tend to be noncompliant

patients.

 

Many self-sabotage and/or abort their treatments because, in my

opinion, they actually want to add Oriental medicine to their list of

therapies that have failed to help them. Most often their lists of

failed therapies include hypnotherapy, reiki, massage therapy,

physical therapy, chiropractic, and western drugs etc.

Unfortunately, the one therapy that they all need but will likely

never seek is psychotherapy.

[Guest guest]

I agree. In some of the more chronic cases their illness is protected

by them. It's a comfort and a crutch and something they don't want to

let go of without a fight. I think that is why faith healers can

work, because they force people to let go of illnesses they have been

holding onto that aren't actually there.

 

I remember whilst i was doing extra study in Beijing, watching a well

known acupuncturist at a good hospital give patients a hard time for

not improving. She was treating stroke patients, difficult cases.

They had a mixture of one sided paralysis, had no sense they were

there (no Shen) and couldn't talk. Patients came to her and expected

her to make them get better, but the healing process doesn't work

like that. They, the patient, have to want to get better and she

moved them hard into that direction as well as giving some excellent

acupuncture. I've saw many stroke patients walk better, able to talk

and regain their minds.

 

It take two to tango!

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " starguard_1 "

<starguard_1 wrote:

>

> In my practice, I have found that many people that seek out

Oriental

> medicine " as a last resort " are very attached to their illnesses.

The

> illnesses seem to provide them with a lot of negative attention

from

> friends and family, and provide a convenient excuse not to do

things.

>

> Whenever I treat patients like them, regardless of their chief

> complaint, I always strive to calm their shen. They always " say "

> that they want to get better and are usually very well informed

about

> their diagnosed conditions, however, they tend to be noncompliant

> patients.

>

> Many self-sabotage and/or abort their treatments because, in my

> opinion, they actually want to add Oriental medicine to their list

of

> therapies that have failed to help them. Most often their lists of

> failed therapies include hypnotherapy, reiki, massage therapy,

> physical therapy, chiropractic, and western drugs etc.

> Unfortunately, the one therapy that they all need but will likely

> never seek is psychotherapy.

>

[Guest guest]

We've probably all experienced this with patients. They may be " doing " it for

attention or have such low self-esteem that they don't believe they deserve to

be happy. They could have grown up in such a way that they they believe this

is the only way to exist. There may be a sense of familiarity with the way

their body seems to work and they are afraid to move into another paradigm.

There could also be an early wounding, or even soul imprint, that has programmed

them to live the way they do.

 

Whatever the reason, I believe it's a vital part of our job to gently hold up a

mirror for them. With patients like these, I am always looking for a way to

help them uncover the core belief they hold about themselves and their health.

When I see that they are ready to work on their issues, I have a list of

psychologists, counselors and even shamans to whom I can refer them.

 

From an acupuncture perspective, I pay keen attention to their emotional life

when I decide how to treat them. Based on that, there are a variety of

treatments to choose from such as dislodging the evil qi that has hidden deeper

in the body, calming their shen, giving a trauma treatment or tonifying a

deficient element.

 

I'd be very interested to hear how others work with patients like these. I find

it one of the most challenging aspects of my practice, yet when I can help

someone seemingly addicted to disease or meds, it's the most rewarding.

 

Thanks, Liz

 

 

 

-

starguard_1

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:49 AM

Re: need advice

 

 

In my practice, I have found that many people that seek out Oriental

medicine " as a last resort " are very attached to their illnesses. The

illnesses seem to provide them with a lot of negative attention from

friends and family, and provide a convenient excuse not to do things.

 

Whenever I treat patients like them, regardless of their chief

complaint, I always strive to calm their shen. They always " say "

that they want to get better and are usually very well informed about

their diagnosed conditions, however, they tend to be noncompliant

patients.

 

Many self-sabotage and/or abort their treatments because, in my

opinion, they actually want to add Oriental medicine to their list of

therapies that have failed to help them. Most often their lists of

failed therapies include hypnotherapy, reiki, massage therapy,

physical therapy, chiropractic, and western drugs etc.

Unfortunately, the one therapy that they all need but will likely

never seek is psychotherapy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 04:49:36 -0500, starguard_1 <starguard_1

wrote:

 

> In my practice, I have found that many people that seek out Oriental

> medicine " as a last resort " are very attached to their illnesses. The

> illnesses seem to provide them with a lot of negative attention from

> friends and family, and provide a convenient excuse not to do things.

>

 

In cases like this, I use an interdisciplinary approach. I have a small

network of clinical social workers and psychologists to whom I frequently

refer for co-management of these sorts of cases. We stay in touch

frequently regarding the patient's progress. Both of these professional

groups tend to be very open to TCM and other forms of alternative medicine.

 

I get them to the therapist by one of two methods. The first is to be

straightforward with the patient; I simply tell them that I think that

their illness has a strong psychological component, and I would like to

get them to a specialist to help us figure out what role the psychological

aspect is playing.

 

In some cases, where there is a clearly recognizable disorder -- eg,

depression -- I explain that part of their diagnosis is depression, and

that in order to treat them appropriately, we need another pro on our team.

 

Surprisingly, the first method -- being straightforward -- often works

when you think it wouldn't.

 

Yeah, I lose patients this way. But another way I lose patients is when I

diagnose alcoholism. With alcoholics, I draw a very firm line; they either

get into a 12-step or other addiction program, see a mental health

professional, or I refuse to treat them. I lose 98% of those patients, and

a lot of times I feel bad about it. After all, maybe I could have helped

them some?

 

At least, I used to feel bad about it, until one day I asked a new patient

how they heard about me, and they told me it was from another patient who

was one of those with whom I was blunt and they walked out the door never

to return. The new patient had met the former patient at a rehab center.

He said " I'm here because of Dr. Jenkins. He saved my life. "

 

So, I figure even with those patients who cannot consciously accept that

they are desiring their disease, I may have planted a seed which will

blossom later.

 

 

Avery L. Jenkins, DC, FIAMA, DACBN

Chiropractic Physician

Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncturists

Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition

www.docaltmed.com

--

--

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please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message.

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criminal law.

[Guest guest]

I have found hypnotherapy and kinesiology (some brain eye movements, think

it's called the Results System pattened), to be very helpful for me in

reprogramming the subconscious and moving forward on some things in my life.

Just started a few months ago but so far so good.

 

 

Anne

 

Note: I guess what we need to be aware of is what we were saying earlier, some

people are just not ready. You may be the stepping stone that make them ready,

now or later with another practitioner. I try to be a straight forward as

possible on the phone. I never promise miracle results. If anything the fees

might keep them away, since I am not an insurance provider. I do think this

type of patient that you speak of is only around for 3 to 6 (maybe) treatments.

Then they are gone. There are some exceptions. I had a doosey of a case

recently, with someone hooked on a lot or meds, pregnisone for a year, nerontin,

tramadol, trazodone (their were others). Even when the pain went away, she

continued to take these, and put off going to her western docs. I had referred

her to a natural MD. She said it took 3 months to get an appt and made one.

Can you guess, that didn't happen. I gave her another name that she kept

putting off calling. She was under a lot of stress again. Ev

erything blew up. She was quite sick and stopped coming. I referred her to

some other practitioners closer to her, but who knows. Maybe she will be ready

with one of them. All along she was saying how great she felt and wanted to get

off the meds.

 

 

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" starguard_1 " <starguard_1

> In my practice, I have found that many people that seek out Oriental

> medicine " as a last resort " are very attached to their illnesses. The

> illnesses seem to provide them with a lot of negative attention from

> friends and family, and provide a convenient excuse not to do things.

>

> Whenever I treat patients like them, regardless of their chief

> complaint, I always strive to calm their shen. They always " say "

> that they want to get better and are usually very well informed about

> their diagnosed conditions, however, they tend to be noncompliant

> patients.

>

> Many self-sabotage and/or abort their treatments because, in my

> opinion, they actually want to add Oriental medicine to their list of

> therapies that have failed to help them. Most often their lists of

> failed therapies include hypnotherapy, reiki, massage therapy,

> physical therapy, chiropractic, and western drugs etc.

> Unfortunately, the one therapy that they all need but will likely

> never seek is psychotherapy.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I want to thank the group for responding to my post.

 

Thanks,

Tatiana

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

need more info on this: i'm assuming he's taking the opium for pain. you

say T3-T4 is nml, so where is the pain, what's the quality of it? (burning,

stabbing, achy, constant, intermit., etc) what are the answers to the 10

questions? what's the T/P?

 

kb

 

 

On 3/3/07, edahmadi <edahmadi wrote:

>

> I have a patient that uses aapx. 6 gram opium orally daily.He is 5.10

> ft. 240 lb.heavy appetite T3 and T4 are normal ferquent urination 18-20

> times and one bowl movement a day.I,m using R4,6,9,10,11,12 ST 24,25,26

> 27 SP 15,16 KD 15,17 Ear points shen men,appetite control,SI,enocrine

> ST,Mouth and Thalamus points between treatmet 2X a week + diet and

> exercise.He claims if he quit opium he will gain more weight.I,m

> planning to use Ear points shen man,point

> zero,LV,KD,LU,Sympathetic,Brain and Limbic system.I need some advice.

> Thanks Group.

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi kb

he is 28 years old.Drug addict,opium is his addiction for almost 5 years has

no pain,smoker,has SOB,heavy sleeper,easily sweating,prefers cold drinks,energy

6/10,feels nauseated if dosn,t eat. T/ thick,Yellowish gray,deep crack in center

and horizental cracks on the sides.

P/ deep ,slow in all positions.

 

" " wrote:

need more info on this: i'm assuming he's taking the opium for pain.

you

say T3-T4 is nml, so where is the pain, what's the quality of it? (burning,

stabbing, achy, constant, intermit., etc) what are the answers to the 10

questions? what's the T/P?

 

kb

 

On 3/3/07, edahmadi <edahmadi wrote:

>

> I have a patient that uses aapx. 6 gram opium orally daily.He is 5.10

> ft. 240 lb.heavy appetite T3 and T4 are normal ferquent urination 18-20

> times and one bowl movement a day.I,m using R4,6,9,10,11,12 ST 24,25,26

> 27 SP 15,16 KD 15,17 Ear points shen men,appetite control,SI,enocrine

> ST,Mouth and Thalamus points between treatmet 2X a week + diet and

> exercise.He claims if he quit opium he will gain more weight.I,m

> planning to use Ear points shen man,point

> zero,LV,KD,LU,Sympathetic,Brain and Limbic system.I need some advice.

> Thanks Group.

>

>

>

 

--

 

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

I would use the NADA protocol with electric stimulation on the Lung

point. This correlates to the original research done in Hong Kong on

treating opium addicts. I would also use a patent based on a pattern

analysis.

 

Regards

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , ed ahmadi

<edahmadi wrote:

>

> Hi kb

> he is 28 years old.Drug addict,opium is his addiction for almost

5 years has no pain,smoker,has SOB,heavy sleeper,easily

sweating,prefers cold drinks,energy 6/10,feels nauseated if dosn,t

eat. T/ thick,Yellowish gray,deep crack in center and horizental

cracks on the sides.

> P/ deep ,slow in all positions.

>

> " " wrote:

> need more info on this: i'm assuming he's taking the

opium for pain. you

> say T3-T4 is nml, so where is the pain, what's the quality of it?

(burning,

> stabbing, achy, constant, intermit., etc) what are the answers to

the 10

> questions? what's the T/P?

>

> kb

>

> On 3/3/07, edahmadi <edahmadi wrote:

> >

> > I have a patient that uses aapx. 6 gram opium orally daily.He is

5.10

> > ft. 240 lb.heavy appetite T3 and T4 are normal ferquent urination

18-20

> > times and one bowl movement a day.I,m using R4,6,9,10,11,12 ST

24,25,26

> > 27 SP 15,16 KD 15,17 Ear points shen men,appetite

control,SI,enocrine

> > ST,Mouth and Thalamus points between treatmet 2X a week + diet and

> > exercise.He claims if he quit opium he will gain more weight.I,m

> > planning to use Ear points shen man,point

> > zero,LV,KD,LU,Sympathetic,Brain and Limbic system.I need some

advice.

> > Thanks Group.

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

>

> Oriental Medicine

> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

>

> Asheville Center For

> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> kbartlett

> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sunday 04 March 2007 3:34 am, ed ahmadi wrote:

 

Hi Ed!

 

What do you mean by having SOB? I can think of several possibilities. Advance

apologies to all the political corrects, but let's stay on the medical case

and maybe discuss " appropriateness " elsewhere.

 

 

> Hi kb

> he is 28 years old.Drug addict,opium is his addiction for almost 5 years

> has no pain,smoker,has SOB,

 

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

[Guest guest]

SOB

 

Shortness of Breathe...

 

 

peace

 

--- Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote:

 

> On Sunday 04 March 2007 3:34 am, ed ahmadi wrote:

>

> Hi Ed!

>

> What do you mean by having SOB? I can think of

> several possibilities. Advance

> apologies to all the political corrects, but let's

> stay on the medical case

> and maybe discuss " appropriateness " elsewhere.

>

>

> > Hi kb

> > he is 28 years old.Drug addict,opium is his

> addiction for almost 5 years

> > has no pain,smoker,has SOB,

>

> --

> Regards,

>

> Pete

> http://www.pete-theisen.com/

>

[Guest guest]

On Sunday 04 March 2007 11:12 am, freddy jente wrote:

 

Hi Freddy!

 

Most likely, but I have learned to assume *nothing* with acronyms. Will be

interesting to hear from Ed. Thanks for your reply.

 

> SOB

>

> Shortness of Breathe...

>

>

> peace

>

> --- Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote:

> > On Sunday 04 March 2007 3:34 am, ed ahmadi wrote:

> >

> > Hi Ed!

> >

> > What do you mean by having SOB? I can think of

> > several possibilities.

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

[Guest guest]

Thanks for explanation.I never thought in the group anyone will ask what SOB

stands for.Shortnes Of Breath.

 

 

Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote:

On Sunday 04 March 2007 11:12 am, freddy jente wrote:

 

Hi Freddy!

 

Most likely, but I have learned to assume *nothing* with acronyms. Will be

interesting to hear from Ed. Thanks for your reply.

 

> SOB

>

> Shortness of Breathe...

>

>

> peace

>

> --- Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote:

> > On Sunday 04 March 2007 3:34 am, ed ahmadi wrote:

> >

> > Hi Ed!

> >

> > What do you mean by having SOB? I can think of

> > several possibilities.

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question

on Answers.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed,

 

Drugs clearly change brain physiology and deplete yin. I'll never forget that

when, as a student I participated in a NADA externship program at a sober living

facility for former addicts, that virtually all of the residents, though clean,

were compulsive eaters and smokers. I am convinced that this is a serious

mistake, and unless all vices are dealt with, the pattern of compulsion and

addiction will continue, with one substance just replacing another. I think

that a major part of a successful program is to utilitze different integrative

therapies to reprogram the patient's thought processes. Besides auricular and

regular acupuncture, CranioSacral therapy, Qi gong and Tai Ji, Yoga, music and

art therapies, teaching the patient to connect proactively to their inner

feelings by meditation and prayer, massage and Tui Na, reprogramming and

educating dietetics, and despite the NADA belief that Chinese herbs should not

be used as they would just be one substance

replacing another, I believe that herbs should be integrated as well to help

strengthen and eliminate. The addict is in a constant state of sympathetic fight

or flight, and the only relief for him is his drug. We need to facilitate a

change, and a state of well being achieved in a different way.

 

Much success,

 

Yehuda

 

ed ahmadi <edahmadi wrote:

Hi kb

he is 28 years old.Drug addict,opium is his addiction for almost 5 years has no

pain,smoker,has SOB,heavy sleeper,easily sweating,prefers cold drinks,energy

6/10,feels nauseated if dosn,t eat. T/ thick,Yellowish gray,deep crack in center

and horizental cracks on the sides.

P/ deep ,slow in all positions.

 

" " wrote:

need more info on this: i'm assuming he's taking the opium for pain. you

say T3-T4 is nml, so where is the pain, what's the quality of it? (burning,

stabbing, achy, constant, intermit., etc) what are the answers to the 10

questions? what's the T/P?

 

kb

 

On 3/3/07, edahmadi <edahmadi wrote:

>

> I have a patient that uses aapx. 6 gram opium orally daily.He is 5.10

> ft. 240 lb.heavy appetite T3 and T4 are normal ferquent urination 18-20

> times and one bowl movement a day.I,m using R4,6,9,10,11,12 ST 24,25,26

> 27 SP 15,16 KD 15,17 Ear points shen men,appetite control,SI,enocrine

> ST,Mouth and Thalamus points between treatmet 2X a week + diet and

> exercise.He claims if he quit opium he will gain more weight.I,m

> planning to use Ear points shen man,point

> zero,LV,KD,LU,Sympathetic,Brain and Limbic system.I need some advice.

> Thanks Group.

>

>

>

 

--

 

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree 100%. Auriclular electrostim can be extremely effective in addictions.

 

<attiliodalberto wrote: I would use the

NADA protocol with electric stimulation on the Lung

point. This correlates to the original research done in Hong Kong on

treating opium addicts. I would also use a patent based on a pattern

analysis.

 

Regards

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , ed ahmadi

<edahmadi wrote:

>

> Hi kb

> he is 28 years old.Drug addict,opium is his addiction for almost

5 years has no pain,smoker,has SOB,heavy sleeper,easily

sweating,prefers cold drinks,energy 6/10,feels nauseated if dosn,t

eat. T/ thick,Yellowish gray,deep crack in center and horizental

cracks on the sides.

> P/ deep ,slow in all positions.

>

> " " wrote:

> need more info on this: i'm assuming he's taking the

opium for pain. you

> say T3-T4 is nml, so where is the pain, what's the quality of it?

(burning,

> stabbing, achy, constant, intermit., etc) what are the answers to

the 10

> questions? what's the T/P?

>

> kb

>

> On 3/3/07, edahmadi <edahmadi wrote:

> >

> > I have a patient that uses aapx. 6 gram opium orally daily.He is

5.10

> > ft. 240 lb.heavy appetite T3 and T4 are normal ferquent urination

18-20

> > times and one bowl movement a day.I,m using R4,6,9,10,11,12 ST

24,25,26

> > 27 SP 15,16 KD 15,17 Ear points shen men,appetite

control,SI,enocrine

> > ST,Mouth and Thalamus points between treatmet 2X a week + diet and

> > exercise.He claims if he quit opium he will gain more weight.I,m

> > planning to use Ear points shen man,point

> > zero,LV,KD,LU,Sympathetic,Brain and Limbic system.I need some

advice.

> > Thanks Group.

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

>

> Oriental Medicine

> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

>

> Asheville Center For

> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> kbartlett

> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sunday 04 March 2007 5:42 pm, ed ahmadi wrote:

> Thanks for explanation.I never thought in the group anyone will ask what

> SOB stands for.Shortnes Of Breath.

 

Hi Ed!

 

Well, we didn't all go to the same school, we aren't all from the same

country, some of us are using a second or third language to participate,

generally I avoid acronyms and abbreviations for that reason. Thanks for

clearing it up.

>

> Most likely, but I have learned to assume *nothing* with acronyms. Will be

> interesting to hear from Ed. Thanks for your reply.

>

> > SOB

> >

> > Shortness of Breathe...

 

> > peace

 

> > > What do you mean by having SOB? I can think of

> > > several possibilities.

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

[Guest guest]

SOB is a well known abbreviation for shortness of breath. I learnt

this in my school as did many others.

 

I don't understand why you never seem to know any abbreviations.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

 

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

<petetheisen wrote:

>

> On Sunday 04 March 2007 5:42 pm, ed ahmadi wrote:

> > Thanks for explanation.I never thought in the group anyone will

ask what

> > SOB stands for.Shortnes Of Breath.

>

> Hi Ed!

>

> Well, we didn't all go to the same school, we aren't all from the

same

> country, some of us are using a second or third language to

participate,

> generally I avoid acronyms and abbreviations for that reason.

Thanks for

> clearing it up.

> >

> > Most likely, but I have learned to assume *nothing* with

acronyms. Will be

> > interesting to hear from Ed. Thanks for your reply.

> >

> > > SOB

> > >

> > > Shortness of Breathe...

>

> > > peace

>

> > > > What do you mean by having SOB? I can think of

> > > > several possibilities.

> --

> Regards,

>

> Pete

> http://www.pete-theisen.com/

>

[Guest guest]

Yehuda:

 

I would agree with you. We did a lot of work in additction clinics in inner

city Baltimore. The clinic I went to the most was right at the corner where

the book " The Corner " was set. The book was written before this addiciton

center was started in St. James Church there. It is a Baltimore city funded

project , with a private grant to pay supervisors of the acupuncture program.

The behavioral coaching and meetings adds a lot. We did meditaiton as part of

the acupuncture treatment. At Penn North in Baltimore, a much bigger facility,

they did Qi Gong as well. It was run by a recovered addict Al Da Nan, who had

lived on the streets 17 years before his recovery. He recently passed away last

year. I think the end of his life was quite rewarding.

 

I also am a growing fan of hypnotherapy. I think it can add to reprgramming

negative behaviors (that we really want to let go of). I also agree about the

herbs. It's a good addiction, like excercise (not in excess of course - to

deplete yin)

 

Just some thoughts,

 

Anne

-------------- Original message ----------------------

 

> Hi Ed,

>

> Drugs clearly change brain physiology and deplete yin. I'll never forget

that

> when, as a student I participated in a NADA externship program at a sober

living

> facility for former addicts, that virtually all of the residents, though

clean,

> were compulsive eaters and smokers. I am convinced that this is a serious

> mistake, and unless all vices are dealt with, the pattern of compulsion and

> addiction will continue, with one substance just replacing another. I think

> that a major part of a successful program is to utilitze different integrative

> therapies to reprogram the patient's thought processes. Besides auricular and

> regular acupuncture, CranioSacral therapy, Qi gong and Tai Ji, Yoga, music and

> art therapies, teaching the patient to connect proactively to their inner

> feelings by meditation and prayer, massage and Tui Na, reprogramming and

> educating dietetics, and despite the NADA belief that Chinese herbs should not

> be used as they would just be one substance

> replacing another, I believe that herbs should be integrated as well to help

> strengthen and eliminate. The addict is in a constant state of sympathetic

fight

> or flight, and the only relief for him is his drug. We need to facilitate a

> change, and a state of well being achieved in a different way.

>

> Much success,

>

> Yehuda

>

> ed ahmadi <edahmadi wrote:

> Hi kb

> he is 28 years old.Drug addict,opium is his addiction for almost 5 years has

no

> pain,smoker,has SOB,heavy sleeper,easily sweating,prefers cold drinks,energy

> 6/10,feels nauseated if dosn,t eat. T/ thick,Yellowish gray,deep crack in

center

> and horizental cracks on the sides.

> P/ deep ,slow in all positions.

>

> " " wrote:

> need more info on this: i'm assuming he's taking the opium for pain. you

> say T3-T4 is nml, so where is the pain, what's the quality of it? (burning,

> stabbing, achy, constant, intermit., etc) what are the answers to the 10

> questions? what's the T/P?

>

> kb

>

> On 3/3/07, edahmadi <edahmadi wrote:

> >

> > I have a patient that uses aapx. 6 gram opium orally daily.He is 5.10

> > ft. 240 lb.heavy appetite T3 and T4 are normal ferquent urination 18-20

> > times and one bowl movement a day.I,m using R4,6,9,10,11,12 ST 24,25,26

> > 27 SP 15,16 KD 15,17 Ear points shen men,appetite control,SI,enocrine

> > ST,Mouth and Thalamus points between treatmet 2X a week + diet and

> > exercise.He claims if he quit opium he will gain more weight.I,m

> > planning to use Ear points shen man,point

> > zero,LV,KD,LU,Sympathetic,Brain and Limbic system.I need some advice.

> > Thanks Group.

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

>

> Oriental Medicine

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>

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> kbartlett

> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ive had a cold virus[im guessing]for a month now with,tons of mucus and

sneezing all the time, no let up.I have Cardiomyopathy and i cannot

take alot of over the counter meds.Susan

[Guest guest]

Susan

 

Mature green papaya skin as tea (boil chopped skin in one liter of water then

simmer until it gets to half liter) might help you.  Drink with papaya leaf tea

50/50 throughout the day.  Papaya's sap which contains strong papain is known to

melt mucous and pus even the hard ones.

 

Here is the excerpt about it from Weston Price Foundation on differerent uses of

 papaya.

 

" 6. Papain, found abundantly in the Mature Green Papaya (pawpaw), acts as a

powerful mucus and pus solvent. Papain helps to cleanse the tissues and

intestinal walls of all waste matter in the form of excessive mucus and dead

tissue. Papain in the whole papaya or in the Mature Green Papaya is harmless to

living tissue and is a must for the maintenance of health in the intestinal

tract. "

 

melly