Guest guest Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Hello all, I have a difficult case that i could use some consideration on: have a patient, male, late 30's, significant health history: primarily multiple surgeries, two resulting in near-death experiences, has lifelong history of digestive complaints (loose stools, gas). Presents with depression, but this only occurs when he discontinues taking an amino acid supplement (PO, containing both essential, as well as non-essential). During the intake he said that when beginning the supplement he felt significantly better, " more in my body " , further that he didn't notice that he wasn't totally " in his body " until the administration began, but that the difference was significant. He is an omnivore with no seeming deficiency of protein. He has tried on several occasions to discontinue the supplement (has been taking for six months) due to concerns of addiction, and the possible supplanting of non-essential amino functions internally. I suggested that he discontinue the non-essential brand, and begin to administer an essential only brand while increasing his overall protein intake, but he is reluctant as the onset of depression is so severe that he feels " agoraphobic. " Patient started taking Sheng Ling Bai Zhu San for the digestive complaints with generally good results. Any thoughts would be appreciated...Tymothy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 miracles28 wrote: > have a patient, male, late 30's, significant health history: primarily > multiple surgeries, two resulting in near-death experiences, has > lifelong history of digestive complaints (loose stools, gas). Presents > with depression, but this only occurs when he discontinues taking an > amino acid supplement (PO, containing both essential, as well as > non-essential) . Hi Dr. Tymothy! Duh? If depression occurs when he *discontinues* an amino acid supplement, maybe he should continue to take it? It isn't like " doing crack " , and you could tell him that. > During the intake he said that when beginning the supplement he felt > significantly better, " more in my body " , further that he didn't notice > that he wasn't totally " in his body " until the administration began, > but that the difference was significant. He is an omnivore with no > seeming deficiency of protein. Does your intake include tongue, pulse and the rest of the four examinations? If it does, could you share the findings? > He has tried on several occasions to discontinue the supplement (has > been taking for six months) due to concerns of addiction, and the > possible supplanting of non-essential amino functions internally. > > I suggested that he discontinue the non-essential brand, and begin to > administer an essential only brand while increasing his overall > protein intake, but he is reluctant as the onset of depression is so > severe that he feels " agoraphobic. " > Patient started taking Sheng Ling Bai Zhu San for the digestive > complaints with generally good results. > Any thoughts would be appreciated. ..Tymothy When I was that age I had an onset of a complex of severe health issues which included surgery. I started to take supplements and the issues went away like magic. I had been raised with supplements, but when I went away on my own I decided I didn't need them, wrong. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Tymothy, Interesting case and similar to some cases that Kiiko Matsumoto has shared in her clinical strategies text v 1. The near death experience would suggest that one check the abdominal reflex around the navel, near Kid 16. There seems to be a correlation with trauma, shock and this area. From this, she suggests using another location for Kid 6, midway between the medial malleolus and the heel, threaded in this direction. Kid 27 is also added to this to fill up kidney. Once kid 6 has reduced (50%) the pressure pain at Kid 16, then one can needle and moxa this area as well. This treatment is called the adrenal treatment and can be very effective for various shock and trauma, old and new. Hope this helps. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac -------------- > Chinese Medicine > jellyphish > Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:07:56 +0000 > Difficult Case > > Hello all, > I have a difficult case that i could use some consideration on: > have a patient, male, late 30's, significant health history: primarily > multiple surgeries, two resulting in near-death experiences, has > lifelong history of digestive complaints (loose stools, gas). Presents > with depression, but this only occurs when he discontinues taking an > amino acid supplement (PO, containing both essential, as well as > non-essential). > During the intake he said that when beginning the supplement he felt > significantly better, " more in my body " , further that he didn't notice > that he wasn't totally " in his body " until the administration began, > but that the difference was significant. He is an omnivore with no > seeming deficiency of protein. > He has tried on several occasions to discontinue the supplement (has > been taking for six months) due to concerns of addiction, and the > possible supplanting of non-essential amino functions internally. > I suggested that he discontinue the non-essential brand, and begin to > administer an essential only brand while increasing his overall > protein intake, but he is reluctant as the onset of depression is so > severe that he feels " agoraphobic. " > Patient started taking Sheng Ling Bai Zhu San for the digestive > complaints with generally good results. > Any thoughts would be appreciated...Tymothy > _______________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 You should reassure your patient that there are no adverse sequelae to long-term amino acid supplementation. Nor is there *any* evidence -- nor any physiological reason to think that there would be -- that suggests that such supplementation is addictive. Remember, too, that some AAs are " conditionally essential " -- that is, requirements vary with individual/status. It sounds like your patient has found something that works without side effects, but he's got a hammer and is looking for a nail. Avery L. Jenkins, DC, DACBN, FIAMA On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:07:56 -0400, miracles28 <jellyphish wrote: > Hello all, > I have a difficult case that i could use some consideration on: > have a patient, male, late 30's, significant health history: primarily > multiple surgeries, two resulting in near-death experiences, has > lifelong history of digestive complaints (loose stools, gas). Presents > with depression, but this only occurs when he discontinues taking an > amino acid supplement (PO, containing both essential, as well as > non-essential). > During the intake he said that when beginning the supplement he felt > significantly better, " more in my body " , further that he didn't notice > that he wasn't totally " in his body " until the administration began, > but that the difference was significant. He is an omnivore with no > seeming deficiency of protein. > He has tried on several occasions to discontinue the supplement (has > been taking for six months) due to concerns of addiction, and the > possible supplanting of non-essential amino functions internally. > > I suggested that he discontinue the non-essential brand, and begin to > administer an essential only brand while increasing his overall > protein intake, but he is reluctant as the onset of depression is so > severe that he feels " agoraphobic. " > Patient started taking Sheng Ling Bai Zhu San for the digestive > complaints with generally good results. > Any thoughts would be appreciated...Tymothy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Thank you to all who responded, generally in my work with him i am trying to simply support him and work from there, essentially i agree with what everyone has posted thus far, but also respect that he doesn't want to take a pill daily to " feel normal. " That was his primary complaint, simply that he has watched people become addicted to SSRI's and doesn't see a tremendous amount of difference. I did tell him that aminos are generally derived from yeast and as a supplement have a much higher degree of biologic activity as opposed to a synthetic chemical. His TCM vitals (apologies for not posting): T: pale, tm, sl.yellow coat, esp in rear (tended to be thicker first session) P: sl. xu on left esp middle position, right pulse is flying so is difficult to ascertain but generally feels slippery. His Shen in general is good, good eye contact and some rise in his voice, tending towards a wiry personality with an earthy disposition. Tends to be warm, summer is not agreeing with him. Has some darkish rings under his eyes with a slight tired appearance. An interesting side note is that i asked about his intake of antiobios as a child (considering surgeries et al.) as this is common in my practice with chronic digestive complaints and he said that yes, that was common; those little bodies have to deal with some pretty strong substances when often a good fever would do the trick. I would beinterested to see if there is a longitudinal analysis of this, it is very common in my experience. Again appreciations...Tymothy Chinese Medicine , petetheisen <petetheisen wrote: > > miracles28 wrote: > > have a patient, male, late 30's, significant health history: primarily > > multiple surgeries, two resulting in near-death experiences, has > > lifelong history of digestive complaints (loose stools, gas). Presents > > with depression, but this only occurs when he discontinues taking an > > amino acid supplement (PO, containing both essential, as well as > > non-essential) . > > Hi Dr. Tymothy! > > Duh? If depression occurs when he *discontinues* an amino acid > supplement, maybe he should continue to take it? It isn't like " doing > crack " , and you could tell him that. > > > During the intake he said that when beginning the supplement he felt > > significantly better, " more in my body " , further that he didn't notice > > that he wasn't totally " in his body " until the administration began, > > but that the difference was significant. He is an omnivore with no > > seeming deficiency of protein. > > Does your intake include tongue, pulse and the rest of the four > examinations? If it does, could you share the findings? > > > He has tried on several occasions to discontinue the supplement (has > > been taking for six months) due to concerns of addiction, and the > > possible supplanting of non-essential amino functions internally. > > > > I suggested that he discontinue the non-essential brand, and begin to > > administer an essential only brand while increasing his overall > > protein intake, but he is reluctant as the onset of depression is so > > severe that he feels " agoraphobic. " > > > Patient started taking Sheng Ling Bai Zhu San for the digestive > > complaints with generally good results. > > > Any thoughts would be appreciated. ..Tymothy > > When I was that age I had an onset of a complex of severe health issues > which included surgery. I started to take supplements and the issues > went away like magic. I had been raised with supplements, but when I > went away on my own I decided I didn't need them, wrong. > > Regards, > > Pete > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Thank you to all who responded, generally in my work with him i am trying to simply support him and work from there, essentially i agree with what everyone has posted thus far, but also respect that he doesn't want to take a pill daily to " feel normal. " That was his primary complaint, simply that he has watched people become addicted to SSRI's and doesn't see a tremendous amount of difference. I did tell him that aminos are generally derived from yeast and as a supplement have a much higher degree of biologic activity as opposed to a synthetic chemical. His TCM vitals (apologies for not posting): T: pale, tm, sl.yellow coat, esp in rear (tended to be thicker first session) P: sl. xu on left esp middle position, right pulse is flying so is difficult to ascertain but generally feels slippery. His Shen in general is good, good eye contact and some rise in his voice, tending towards a wiry personality with an earthy disposition. Tends to be warm, summer is not agreeing with him. Has some darkish rings under his eyes with a slight tired appearance. An interesting side note is that i asked about his intake of antiobios as a child (considering surgeries et al.) as this is common in my practice with chronic digestive complaints and he said that yes, that was common; those little bodies have to deal with some pretty strong substances when often a good fever would do the trick. I would beinterested to see if there is a longitudinal analysis of this, it is very common in my experience. Again appreciations...Tymothy Chinese Medicine , petetheisen <petetheisen wrote: > > miracles28 wrote: > > have a patient, male, late 30's, significant health history: primarily > > multiple surgeries, two resulting in near-death experiences, has > > lifelong history of digestive complaints (loose stools, gas). Presents > > with depression, but this only occurs when he discontinues taking an > > amino acid supplement (PO, containing both essential, as well as > > non-essential) . > > Hi Dr. Tymothy! > > Duh? If depression occurs when he *discontinues* an amino acid > supplement, maybe he should continue to take it? It isn't like " doing > crack " , and you could tell him that. > > > During the intake he said that when beginning the supplement he felt > > significantly better, " more in my body " , further that he didn't notice > > that he wasn't totally " in his body " until the administration began, > > but that the difference was significant. He is an omnivore with no > > seeming deficiency of protein. > > Does your intake include tongue, pulse and the rest of the four > examinations? If it does, could you share the findings? > > > He has tried on several occasions to discontinue the supplement (has > > been taking for six months) due to concerns of addiction, and the > > possible supplanting of non-essential amino functions internally. > > > > I suggested that he discontinue the non-essential brand, and begin to > > administer an essential only brand while increasing his overall > > protein intake, but he is reluctant as the onset of depression is so > > severe that he feels " agoraphobic. " > > > Patient started taking Sheng Ling Bai Zhu San for the digestive > > complaints with generally good results. > > > Any thoughts would be appreciated. ..Tymothy > > When I was that age I had an onset of a complex of severe health issues > which included surgery. I started to take supplements and the issues > went away like magic. I had been raised with supplements, but when I > went away on my own I decided I didn't need them, wrong. > > Regards, > > Pete > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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